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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

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Iachoku

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But...isn't that...the exact reason...we have tier lists..?
I suppose. I just think the chain-grabbing is cheap. Meh. It's just one man's opinion.


I'm really ****ing glad that the competitive scene is being run by idiots like you
Yeah, me too, eh? Let's fold our hands and bow our heads in prayer and thank god that a simple-minded child isn't running the competitive scene of what is no more than a video-game. Who knows how dire the situation would be if I were in charge.
 

BDawgPHD

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I suppose. I just think the chain-grabbing is cheap. Meh. It's just one man's opinion.




Yeah, me too, eh? Let's fold our hands and bow our heads in prayer and thank god that a simple-minded child isn't running the competitive scene of what is no more than a video-game. Who knows how dire the situation would be if I were in charge.
Hey, video games are serious ****ing business, pal. I am so ****ing serious right now.......you guys have no idea how serious i am....I am SOOO serious. I'm gonna get on my xbox live camera and take a picture of my serious face, just to show you how serious i am right now.

XD

It's competitive gaming, pal. If you don't like it, gtfo.
 

Kiwikomix

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No Johns, BDawg.

And I hear a cry of "Dedede is cheap". How about "Dedede has strategies that I cannot beat" or "Dedede is a gigantic penguin and I can't handle it" or "cheap means scrub"?
 

Tien2500

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Theres a lot of potty mouths in this topic. Anyway I wouldn't say anything is a lock at this point but Toon Link will most likely be on the higher end f the tier list.
 

Onxy

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Hey I have a question, I know there was a Ivy conversation and the general consensus is that she is low. But why is it that every matchup chart I see, Ivy has the best matchups out of the 3? Infact, her matchups are on par with characters like Wario, Fox, Donky Kong ect...
 

Frown

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Hey I have a question, I know there was a Ivy conversation and the general consensus is that she is low. But why is it that every matchup chart I see, Ivy has the best matchups out of the 3? Infact, her matchups are on par with characters like Wario, Fox, Donky Kong ect...
It's the opinion of the community. You'll have to ask everyone who contributed to the list.
 

Xyro77

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Falco is above rob and GW. watch vids of sethlon. to see what i mean.

olimar and pit cant be ignored either
 

fkacyan

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Falco is above rob and GW. watch vids of sethlon. to see what i mean.

olimar and pit cant be ignored either
Olimar and Pit are some of the easiest characters to gimp in the game. Olimar much moreso than Pit, but the second pit uses his upB under the stage, fi you have a character who can hit him... He's dead.

Falco isn't above ROB and G&W, they're roughly equal.
 

V

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i think most ppl have it wrong. as i main marth, im sad to say i think he's in lower high tier. fox isnt all that great and neither is sonic bcuz he lacks strength. in my opinion, the best characters in order are king dedede, meta knight, snake, falco, and ike. just my opinion
 

Emblem Lord

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Holy ****.

What

the

****?!

Wow.

I'm like...THIS close to unsubscribing to this thread.
 

V

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Fox, Falco, Sonic, Mario, Luigi, Wolf, Metaknight, Peach, Marth, and Pit are definatly high on the tier list.

Shiek, Pokemon Trainer, Link, Olimar, Kirby, Dedede,Jiggly, Falcon, Snake,Ike,Toon Link, Yoshi, Diddy,IC's, and Rob seem to be in the middle of the tier list.

Donkey Kong, Zelda,Ness, Lucas, Lucario, Bowser,Game and Watch,Ike, Wario, and Ganon seem to be on the southern half of the tier list this time around.

The lists I gave are in no order, and are just what I think an image of the first tier list will actually be like.


THIS HAS TO BE THE WORST LIST EVER. HOW CAN YOU PUT GAME & WATCH, IKE, DEDEDE, AND META KNIGHT THAT LOW? META KNIGHT IS IN TOP, G&W, IKE, AND KING DEDEDE ARE IN HIGH. GET IT STRAIGHT
 

Sudsy86_

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my idea looks something like this:


Top: Ness, MK, and Pikachu

Second: G&W, Mario, Diddy, Shiek

Third: Kirby, ROB, Snake, Ike, Lucas, and Pit

Middle: Lucario, Olimar, Dedede, Peach, ZS Samus, Marth Luigi, Ivysaur, and Squirtle

Fifth: Sonic, Wolf, Falco, Fox, Charizard, Zelda, Bowser, Climbers, and Falcon

Sixth: Wario, Samus, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Toon Link

Last: Link, Ganondorf, and DK

Yellow= characters who I acknowledge have a reasonable case for being higher.

Also, I am a competitive user of the following possibly underrated, cheated characters: ROB, Peach, Bowser, Climbers, and Falcon--so don't think I have some personal bias against THESE characters in particular.
 

Onxy

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...

the ****?

Snake below people?
TL in Low Tier?
Ivy in Mid?
Ness in Top?
DK in Bottom?

The only thing really bad about Ivy is her recovery, and she gets bashed so hard to the point that she deserves to be bottom tier (I honestly don't see how she can be on par with Samus or Captain Falcon) While Olimar has the worst recovery in the game, yet he gets nothing but praise.
 

Mr.Victory07

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Wait, your calling Ivysaur a her? And Olimar gets praise cuz he's good, and Ivy's recovery is the second worst btw

Any ways...time to start up a conversation
What about....Lucario
I think he's going to be mid to lower mid, his killer attacks are to slow to connect without having some sort of setup, and his recovery and aerial game is pretty weak( i mean his aerials are literally weak), but he does have the damage multiplier, but i dont think he can survive long enough to get it to its best
 

Onxy

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Last I heard, Ivy = female.

I know Olimar is good, but Ivy doesn't suck. I can't imagine her in the bottom, at worst, top low. But I would say middle.

And why is Charizard always bottom of everyones tier list? It doesn't really bother me, but I'm curious. The only thing I can think of that's bad about him is his size, which makes him vunerable to projectiles. Other than that, he has great recovery, fast movment speed/attacks, nice aerials, and the beloved Rocksmash... Oh and long range grabs.
 

Monshou_no_Nazo

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A lot of Lucario's game play does not come from his damage through high powered attacks. It comes from careful use of his tilts, and taking advantage of his hit boxes. You just have to know when to use Lucario's attacks, but usually you can take advantage of hit boxes that "stay active" for several frames, allowing the slow attacks to be capable of hitting. A lot of his game also comes from tactical use of his Aura Sphere, which can be used to mind game and set up, as well as kill (Aura Sphere seems to work best when they're attempting to recover, the time when air dodging can gimp them from grabbing the edge.)

I'm sure Lucario has far more tricks like that (such as wall clinging to aid in recovery), so I'm going to assume that Lucario will end up in Mid-Tier.
 

Nowaytoeatatater

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my idea looks something like this:


Top: Ness, MK, and Pikachu

Second: G&W, Mario, Diddy, Shiek

Third: Kirby, ROB, Snake, Ike, Lucas, and Pit

Middle: Lucario, Olimar, Dedede, Peach, ZS Samus, Marth Luigi, Ivysaur, and Squirtle

Fifth: Sonic, Wolf, Falco, Fox, Charizard, Zelda, Bowser, Climbers, and Falcon

Sixth: Wario, Samus, Jigglypuff, Yoshi, Toon Link

Last: Link, Ganondorf, and DK

Yellow= characters who I acknowledge have a reasonable case for being higher.

Also, I am a competitive user of the following possibly underrated, cheated characters: ROB, Peach, Bowser, Climbers, and Falcon--so don't think I have some personal bias against THESE characters in particular.
This is one of the worst I've seen so far.

Ness and Pika were buffed a lot, but they'll probably be mid tier, maybe high.

G&W and Diddy are...eh, I guess they're OK where they are, but Mario is definitely mid-low, and Sheik sucks now.

Kirby should definitely be lower. Putting Snake below the above characters, ESPECIALLY ones like Sheik and Mario...is this a joke? Anyway, Ike above Lucas and Pit, is lolz.

Peach and Marth in middle? Moar liek low/bottom and high respectively. Olimar is probably higher, as is Dedede.

This HAS to be a joke. The space animals, Zelda, and IC's THAT low? I hope to God you're kidding. Also, Falcon is the worst character in the game, kthx.

Wario and Toon Link at the second lowest spot? Definitely a joke. They're both really, really good. Definitely high mid-high.

Link and DK are bad, but not that bad.
 

Mr.Victory07

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A lot of Lucario's game play does not come from his damage through high powered attacks. It comes from careful use of his tilts, and taking advantage of his hit boxes. You just have to know when to use Lucario's attacks, but usually you can take advantage of hit boxes that "stay active" for several frames, allowing the slow attacks to be capable of hitting. A lot of his game also comes from tactical use of his Aura Sphere, which can be used to mind game and set up, as well as kill (Aura Sphere seems to work best when they're attempting to recover, the time when air dodging can gimp them from grabbing the edge.)

I'm sure Lucario has far more tricks like that (such as wall clinging to aid in recovery), so I'm going to assume that Lucario will end up in Mid-Tier.
From what ive seen, only his u and f smash have those stay active hitboxes that are worthy of use like that. Aura sphere is good, but gets predictable and leaves him somewhat vulnerable while charging. I agree on the tiere postition tho
 

jiovanni007

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From what ive seen, only his u and f smash have those stay active hitboxes that are worthy of use like that. Aura sphere is good, but gets predictable and leaves him somewhat vulnerable while charging. I agree on the tiere postition tho
Never underestimate Luke's hitboxes or you will be dominated. Pretty much the only bad thing about him is that without a good damage multiplier, he's weaker than average. He also dies off the ceiling relatively easily. Regardless of this, he is still a solid character that should eventually end up at the upper end of the middle tier (though it may not happen in the first list). Don't let his standing on the tier list discourage you from using him. Samus, Jiggs, Falcon, and IC were all mid tier in Melee but still managed to rank very well in tournaments against the likes of the broken top and high tiers.
 

BDawgPHD

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I thought Ivysaur was an it.
In actuality, Ivysaur is theoretically any gender, since the makers of pokemon intro'd the gender system in gold/silver/stadium 2 (my poor Raichu =/)

But he's a guy, I mean cmon, his side taunt is him jumping up on his front feet, dancing, and going "LOOK AT MA BAAAALLLZ!!!!"
 

KratosAurion192

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In actuality, Ivysaur is theoretically any gender, since the makers of pokemon intro'd the gender system in gold/silver/stadium 2 (my poor Raichu =/)

But he's a guy, I mean cmon, his side taunt is him jumping up on his front feet, dancing, and going "LOOK AT MA BAAAALLLZ!!!!"
You can't forget his crowd surfing victory pose...
 

NinjaFoxX

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In actuality, Ivysaur is theoretically any gender, since the makers of pokemon intro'd the gender system in gold/silver/stadium 2 (my poor Raichu =/)

But he's a guy, I mean cmon, his side taunt is him jumping up on his front feet, dancing, and going "LOOK AT MA BAAAALLLZ!!!!"
they must be pretty small then.
as for fox,although nerfed badly,i would say prolly the bottom ot mid-high(dont really see him any lower)

anyways,your thoughts on Ike?
 

BDawgPHD

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they must be pretty small then.
as for fox,although nerfed badly,i would say prolly the bottom ot mid-high(dont really see him any lower)

anyways,your thoughts on Ike?
I think even after getting the noob frost off of all the characters (Ike "is awesome at killing", MK "can't kill people", Sonic "is the new fox", Captain Falcon "won't be in this game"), Ike is still a very good character. His only real weakness is his recovery, which can be screwed over. Other than that, he plays a lot like Melee Ganon, but with more range. Some of his moves are telegraphed, but using them properly keeps you from being vulnerable to attack a lot of the time. Approaching Ike is tough for characters with poor ground games. His nair is an excellent approach option....you can almost spam it as if you were Captain Falcon (in Melee of course), in the way that you can use it to keep people honest, to protect yourself, and to approach. By means of the Viers theorem (thank you, flesh-cutting-words), his nair is a safe approach option that leads directly into jab combo or grab, or both. Also, a fast Ike (don't tell me there's no such thing, lest I invoke the "chris saw dan use ike the other day" theorem) will put pressure on other players and make previously unlandable attacks very realistic.

The biggest problem with Ike is that he's somewhat predictable, and that most people have no clue as to how to use him properly. By speeding him up and learning his approach options, he becomes much much better.
 
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