Mike_Echoes
Smash Journeyman
Jiggly > Wario for Vertical unless Wario has Waft saved.
Jiggly > Wario for Horizontal unless Wario has his Bike.
- MykE
Jiggly > Wario for Horizontal unless Wario has his Bike.
- MykE
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If Jigglypuff gets spiked, odds are she's not coming back. Because her recovery is slow, it's easier to intercept. I agree that Wario's is situtational, but most of the time the bike is all he needs. That's why I said they're about even.Your kidding right? There are many recovery situations where Jigglypuff can recover and Wario can't, and only an idiot would be edgegaurded with Jigglypuff. If you ever fight a good Jigglypuff player in Brawl, your never going to kill them with the abyss. Your comparing Jigglypuff's recovery with a what-if situation with Wario, Wario is indeed better if he has a fully charged fart, a bike, and a second jump, but most of the time he dosn't have that charged fart, or his bike could possibly still be in play on the stage.
Uhh ... not really. Wario can do the reverse Hyrule jump even without the Waft, and if he can do that, he can pretty much recover from anywhere else. He has pretty much no issues recovering, with or without a fully charged Waft. Also, just like a good Jigglypuff won't be edgeguarded, a good Wario will never just leave the bike on the stage, knowing how severely it will hinder his recovery; it's not even a good move to use offensively except as an occasional suprise attack, which is obviously too risky anyway.Your kidding right? There are many recovery situations where Jigglypuff can recover and Wario can't, and only an idiot would be edgegaurded with Jigglypuff. If you ever fight a good Jigglypuff player in Brawl, your never going to kill them with the abyss.
I didn't have many corrections, and then I looked at your "Bottom" Tier. I'm sorry, but there is NO WAY that Olimar and Luigi are on the lowest end of things.Bottom:
Olimar
Luigi
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Link
Donkey Kong
wow... i VERY much diagree with most of what you said.Not to Wario's extent, no. Your opponent can't see your Wario waft coming if you want it to do anything, for example. Also, Wario's bizarre movements make him rely more on mindgames than many other characters: eg, his odd spinning attacks like spotdodge and nair.
The point is, he still should be in high tier because a tier list is based on who wins tournaments, and take a look at Ankoku's character list, which I know is a bit of a popularity contest but still provides the most accurate list we have to date. Besides, it's not like Wario is a terribly popular character.
Yeah, he really is. I'm sure you prolly just think I'm biased because he's my main, but he really is a good character brought down only by light weight and lack of a projectile.
Please don't explain to me how to use PT, I already use him a lot. Charizard is a good character what with his stuff and other stuff, but you can't use him forever, and if you try, he quickly becomes a not-so-good character. That's what brings down PT, that he can't be used consistently. See my last post for the whole thing on why that's bad.
Unlike Melee Jiggz, he can't WOP as effectively, he has crap recovery, and no rest. He's really more like Brawl's Jiggz than Melee's anyway. Also, using Squirtle usually ends up with the turtle dying hella early, like at 80% from a decent smash attack.
I know all about Ivy. Look back about 50 pages and you'll see me defending her. However, I conceded multiple times that she belongs in low tier, but certainly not bottom tier.
If the Pokemon were separated, which they shouldn't be, Squirtle would be low just because his aerial game doesn't redeem him for his ability to die in two seconds.
Charizard would be mid because he's probably the worst heavy character... Bowser, DK, Dedede, Wolf, and Snake are all better. So he's easily comboed and whatnot, but without as many redeeming qualities.
Ivy would also be low, which you admitted, so I don't really need to debate that.
That seems to average out as upper low to me, I dunno if they teach math where you live.
Plus, Pokemon Trainer, who is a VERY popular character, can't even do well in tournies. That seems like low tier material to me.
d-air + b-air WoP = high/high-mid tieryou still haven't convinced me that kirby belongs in high.
i attribute that to low popularity. i think the character concept and learning curve turns a lot of people off.Yeah, there's a reason why PT is nearly rock bottom in tourney outing so far......
ah, got it. thanks a ton.d-air + b-air WoP = high/high-mid tier
Pokemon Trainer could end up like the IC's though, a character that can't be mastered quickly and thus won't kick *** until a pro decides to pick him up.Yeah, there's a reason why PT is nearly rock bottom in tourney outing so far......
well, most people main the character they think is top tier. so the mains arent affecting the tiers it is reverse order.<_<I think bias need to be taken away to make a fair tier list.
For example. I like all the characters. Even I know that Ike is mid to low tier and sonic is low tier.
I think you guys should take your bias out of the tiers and make an actual good Tierlist.
While the PK boys have been weakened, there are worse characters than them. Take C. Falcon for example. Falcon has no projectile, no priority, no approach, no kill moves. The PK boys have these. Powersheilded projectile>no projectile. And under your logic, any projectile can be powersheilded easily, minus Fox/Falco lasers. Plus PK users can counter-counterpick Marth/PT. Or they can use the PK boys as "Secondaries" and main someone-else. Then they can use the PK boys as as a very hax counterpick.I've got a feeling that Ness and Lucas are going to be the worst in this game because of 2 things. The new powersheilding and the release grab infinate combo. With the powersheilding in this game you can powersheild all of Ness and Lucas's projectile attack and just move in to attack them, and Ness and Lucas are not very good in close range combat. And with the relase grab that just makes them almost usless in tournaments because people will pick characters that can infinate them just by grabbing them. And with the release grabs there is even a source to prove that they are almost usless in tournaments. Go check the topics in the Ness or Lucas boards and you'll see a topic talking about this from Cort who is a professional player.
Mewtwo would sodomize Brawl Failcon mercilessly.Captain Falcon isn't that bad.
Compared to melee falcon, yes he sucks balls but you're giving him too much credit.
I'm not a fan of Olimar's Tether recovery, so I lowered him because of it.I didn't have many corrections, and then I looked at your "Bottom" Tier. I'm sorry, but there is NO WAY that Olimar and Luigi are on the lowest end of things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cYV42reMeQJiggs is fine as she used to in Melee! She makes up for her poor verticle recovery by doing rising pound. Which does work in this game. Jigglypuff has a better verticle and horizontal recovery than Wario does. How do you think Jigglypuff does the reverse hyrule jump? Its more than horizontal, and even if Wario could get all the horizontal recovery he could possibly have he still wouldn't make it unless if he had a fully charged fart. Please, please, don't tell me that Jigglypuff has crap recovery. And last time I checked, Jigglypuff still has rest. And you don't have to combo do hit with it anymore. If you try to smash me and I powersheild it with puff I can rest you and you can't do anything about it. If your above 70 your dead. Simple as that. Most kills don't kill till after 100.
Most people consider Olimar to be high tier for having a great projectile, broken range, broken grabs, & high priority. His awful recovery only just keeps him from being top tier.I'm not a fan of Olimar's Tether recovery, so I lowered him because of it.
I don't think I put bias in it, but where would u put them in your opinion, and can I get some evidence as to why?
Sonic's looked the best.
It's better but still kinda bad.Based on YouTube, Tournies and my playgroups opinions:
(NO Particular Order Within Groups)
Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Marth
High:
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Dedede
Toon Link
Pit
R.O.B.
Middle:
Olimar
Luigi
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Pikachu
ZSS
Peach
Wario
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Captain Falcon
Lucas
Low:
Donkey Kong
Ness
Kirby
Mr. Game and Watch
Sonic
Lucario
Bowser
Mario
Diddy Kong
Yoshi
Shiek
Samus
Bottom:
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Link
Better? Worse?
The top tier should be bigger to about 5-6 characters, G&W is top tier, Pit , fox and D3 should be lower, captain falcon is low or bottom tierBased on YouTube, Tournies and my playgroups opinions:
(NO Particular Order Within Groups)
Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Marth
High:
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Dedede
Toon Link
Pit
R.O.B.
Middle:
Olimar
Luigi
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Pikachu
ZSS
Peach
Wario
Zelda
Ice Climbers
Captain Falcon
Lucas
Low:
Donkey Kong
Ness
Kirby
Mr. Game and Watch
Sonic
Lucario
Bowser
Mario
Diddy Kong
Yoshi
Shiek
Samus
Bottom:
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Link
Better? Worse?
DK and Bowser are lower high or upper mid tier. What, you think they belong in low or something? Learn to play the game.you still haven't convinced me that kirby belongs in high. you're just kind of sitting there saying "YES HUH HE IS TOO" at me... you know what, why don't you tell me you feel about dk and bowser?
Since when does the amount of post someone has reflect their knowledge of the game? Some people on here have been playing the original game, Melee, and Brawl ever since they came out, but just so happen to join this forum at the time they did. Since someone has a low amount of post doesn't mean they don't know anything about the game. Why would you even think that?How come there are so many people here who have less than 10 posts commenting on who is the best? You haven't even been playing hard for a month and you want to judge the competitive potential of 35+ characters?
You are twisted.
first of all, yes, that sounds good for low-high, thank you for explaining.DK and Bowser are lower high or upper mid tier. What, you think they belong in low or something? Learn to play the game.
Fine, I'll go into Kirby into depth, just for you, who clearly knows almost everything about the game.
Kirby is of decent speed and priority. Many of his attacks have very good range, such as his f-smash and improved aerial hammer. He has great recovery so that even when he's knocked off the stage with his light weight, he will usually come back. He doesn't have a projectile but if his opponent does, he can just steal it from them and cancel it out, with the exception of Ivysaur (in which case he gets bullet seed so I wouldn't be complaining), Yoshi, and the Earthbounders. In danger, his jab can cancel out projectiles anyway. His feet are actually counted as a disjoint so they have good priority. Dair doesn't spike but can very effectively keep opponents off the stage anyway, not to mention racking up damage well on the ground. He ducks low enough to avoid most projectiles. The lag on his hammer and stone have been decreased, and his stone now has stun damage that hurts opponents near him similar to Yoshi's downB stars. He has enormous grab combos on heavier characters that usually rack up 30-40% at least. He can stick his opponents under the stage by inhaling them, leaving them to flounder a while before falling to their death, except in characters that have recovery as good as his. When things are looking tough for him, he can just inhale and Kirbycide. In theory, a good Kirby could just get ahead by one stock and Kirbycide the game to an end.
That good enough for you?