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oh yes i know, but i don't really pay attention to fludd too much, i like a more up close and personal playstyle with mario, lots of grabs>Utilts>Usmash>Uair, and get them off the stage and cape gimp them. i know the fludd is good in situations i just never think about it.
Same with me, the only time you'll see me really abusing it is against G&W. I perfer being agressive, FLUDD is too defensive for me most of the time. If you know how and when to use it though, it's godly.
Gimping Sonic with Mario is difficult seeing as the cape gives him 2 springs and Fludd doesn't do much unless he's in the tumbling animation after spring. When trying to gimp him, you're reduced to primarily using close ranged attacks like reverse Uairs and Bairs to try and score your kills. Sonic is just in that small handful of Hard-to-Gimp characters with G&W and MK for Mario.
If you're looking for a list, alone Fludd gimps: CF, Ganon, Falco, Fox, Ness, Link and all characters that can't sweetspot instantly from upB (Wario, Ike, Kirby). This is a tiny group compared to the cast, but that's because Fludd is never used alone, it's always used in conjunction with another attack because all it does is push and slow momentum. It's not one of those attacks with a clear-cut purpose either, it just adds to Mario's versatility. Fludd, for example, cancels out Luigi's and Pika's SideB and actually reduces his motion completely, rendering these attacks uneffective. Fludd also pushes Snake's grenades back to him when thrown without causing them to detonate, and kills loose Pikmin that aren't following Olimar (like after a Smash) if they're not blue. It can help recovery to an extent as well.
Even if you take away Cape and Fludd, Mario still has options like fireballs to remove second jumps, reverse uairs offstage, Bair stage spikes and Bairs away from stage. His Nair also has good priority, and cancels out attacks like Diddy's upB.
Well, I was talking more or less in general, not specifically Sonic vs Mario. Though I'd like to note that I wouldn't be edgeguading you if you're already in range to up B. Spring gimps are most effective when done outside the opponent's up B range, as are most of Sonic's edgeguards. And I honestly don't use HA much to edgeguard.
I know, I was just saying I'm not really in a position to say whether or not what you were saying was false or inaccurate because Mario and Sonic have difficulty edgeguarding each other more than the rest of the cast. That being my only experience since I only fight Sonics with Mario, I figured that was a little important.
The only problem I have with Marth's edgeguarding is the predictability of it all. If he's approaching you offstage, he's going for a Fair. If you know the range and space yourself well, it's not hard to maneuver around it and possibly get back to the stage before Marth does. From there, Marth's in a worse position because his options from the ledge aren't too safe and upBing above the ledge is silly. I may be generalizing, but I don't think I'm too far off.
Maybe so, but has deifently improved the match-up for me since it severly limits G&W's approach in addition to blocking almost every atk. I'll try to send some replays to you this weekend so you can see what I'm talking about.
WHY isn't he considered better than Ness and Lucas? What makes both of the Mother boys better than Mario? What is it that I'm missing here?
A badass projectile game (Not spammable, but still oh so cool)
Lol, no really. I'm being serious here.
Oh, I thought the question itself was a joke.
I'm not saying one is leagues better than the other either. I'm not even suggesting that Mario's better, I just want some justification on their tier list placements; something other than speculation based on the character's "surface" potential.
Hell, I think they all go into the middle part of the Mid Tier.
I'm sorry but if you think metaknight = captain falcon I have to ask you to put down the crack pipe and actually play the game
You should edit this out, it makes you look bad.
no waveshine, no jc shine, no instant shine, nerfed shine in general, lower weight, nerfed aerials mostly due to no l-canceling among other things but he's still decent though as is Sheik.
Amazing CG, very useful reflector, beastly A combo, DAC, lasers, good spike, good aerials, among others.
The Forward Aerial is the only move that got buffed, Falco's However, is still the same, useless.
What in the world has Fox done to earn high tier? Being completely wrecked by characters with infinites as well as having plenty of characters being able to chainthrow you definitely gives him terrible match-ups. So it can't be that that lands him in high tier. Maybe it's his tournament results? Oh wait, nevermind, can't be that. He went from B rank, to C rank, to D rank in the past cutoffs of Ankoku's list. He's still D rank now and will likely drop in the future. So that can't earn him high tier either.
Fox =/= High
Kay, I fixed it.
Because once you get past the top 5/7 worst characters it barely even matters anymore.
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FAIL! Just like the SBR list, MARTH IS BETTER THAN FALCO AND AT LEAST AS GOOD AS ROB!
No matter how much you gripe about how decent Sonic is, you will never get past the fundamental fact that people are ignorant and have no idea of how Sonic actually fights.
I thought the consensus was better than rob and at least equal to falco?
Still too high. Luigi, ZSS, and Bowser are all easily better than him.
Peach can.
You just moved him below the characters than Xivi put as an example. lol.
This.
*Bolding added
Congratulations! You have made the first list that I agree with!
