Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[exidid]

Tomorrow.

fkdsahñgdsñlaf

 

[LCB12321]

Olimar in mid tier is frickin ridiculous.... Yall failed big time on that one..

 

[shadowtroop]

Excuse me for asking, but according to guys, what is the current tier list anyway? ☆_☆

 

[Snail]

Excuse me for asking, but according to guys, what is the current tier list anyway? ☆_☆

There's no official one yet, but the best one posted so far (in my and many others' opinion) is Snowstalker's:

GOD TIER:

Meta Knight

TOP TIER:

Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
King Dedede
Marth
R.O.B

HIGH:

Olimar
Diddy Kong
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Wario
Kirby
Pikachu
Pit
Wolf

MIDDLE:

Ice Climbers
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Luigi
Fox
Peach
Lucas
Ness

LOW:

Mario
Sonic
Yoshi
Bowser
Shiek
Pokemon Trainer
Ike
Samus

BOTTOM:

Link
Jigglypuff
Captian Falcon
Ganondorf

 

[Dynamism?]

And so far the changes discussed on this list would make it this


GOD TIER:

Meta Knight

TOP TIER:

Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
King Dedede
Marth
R.O.B

HIGH:

Olimar
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Wario
Kirby
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Pit

MIDDLE:

Ice Climbers
Toon Link
Zelda
Luigi
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Fox
Peach
Lucas

LOW:

Mario
Sonic
Yoshi
Bowser
Shiek
Pokemon Trainer
Ike
Samus

BOTTOM:

Link
Jigglypuff
Captian Falcon
Ganondorf





And things that were mentioned but not really discussed is

Marth moving above Dedede and Falco.
Dedede and Falco switching
Captain Falcon and Ganondorf switching
Ness and Fox switching

But things should probably stay as they are for now as those are all very uncertain and just possiblilities and scramble around a lot anyway.

So this is the most current list that has been discussed to make slightly more accurate.


What needs to be changed next? Something significant or just minor details now?
I think Olimar and Kirby look higher than they should be and Toon Link and Ice Climbers could easily be part of high tier. High tier has more characters in their ranks.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Link IMO should be in low tier.
He has a good defensive game and there are not many that can approach him safely.

His recovery and close range game is what holds him back though.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Snakes are almost nonexistant here on the EC, actually. Starting to see more ZSSs pop up, which is nice.

I think the endgame of Brawl is really gonna come down to five characters, and those will be the five characters that can actually combo. Unless, of course, more characters are discovered to be able to do it.

Glad i'm not the only person to notice Snake's overall mediocre status on the east coast. No Snake's placed well at Xesticle. Seems likes Snakes are dropping in other regions too. I think if more people mained and understood him, people wouldn't be afraid of him. Sure, he's a pain to approach without a projectile, but this man gets outcamped by other projectiles, combo'd and he's unsafe as hell. I'm not suprised he's considered a joke in japan. 2 out 3 of the moves that make him "broke" are punishable on block.

 

[Dynamism?]

Snake is overrated. Has been from day one (though I underrated him thinking he was low tier at first lol...snakedashing >_>)

Linky up I agree. Just didn't want to be the one to say it cause usually it's bad when I say things that go against the publics perceptions ;P

 

[Jump_Man]

I thought G-Dorf was above Falcon. What happened?

 

[Gindler]

I think he should be. heck his dash attack kills anyone at like 100. He hits like a tank while C. falcon hits more like a honda.

Oh and Gdorf's Dair hopping is ridiculous!

Yeah Link is a pain he can camp then suddenly do his boostsmash that launches him across the level (no I'm not a noob and I am exaggerating a bit). Oh and Zair, don't get me started on how good of an approach that is, if you shield it he'll grab you right as he lands, if you spot dodge same thing, if you take it then well you take a hit...so yeah Links pretty decent and Dair is actually a pretty good edgeguard (for those of you not stabbed in the head and shot off into the blast zone at break neck speed)

 

[LCB12321]

no, the br already made a list. Olimar is behind like 17 characters... its ********

(if its real?)

 

[ShadowLink84]

Cause the SBR totally lets their lists leak. >_>

 

[Dynamism?]

Olimar is overrated though. Like a lot. >_>

 

[Snail]

Olimar is overrated though. Like a lot. >_>

Disadvantageous matchups against MK, ROB and Falco to a lesser extent kill him and he's kinda underplayed, but he's a great character. Top of high tier may be a bit high I suppose, but he's still really good o.o

 

[Kiwikomix]

Chillin's list =/= SBR list. Good try though.

If Link's recovery was even decent, then he would be much better, but as it is it makes him pretty awful. The only reason he's usable is that he camps effectively and is pretty difficult to get offstage.

 

[LCB12321]

Ya ur right i dont actually know the sbr list, but im gonna make a prediction list.

Metaknight
Snake
DDD
GaW

Falco
Rob
Marth
Wario
Lucario
DK
Diddy
Pikachu
IC
Kirby
Pit
Wolf

Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zamus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Shiek

Lucas
Ness
Mario
PT
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Link
Falcon

What do u think?

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

Fox is above Wolf.
Kirby is above IC.
IC are more mid tier.

 

[DanGR]

Disadvantageous matchups against MK, ROB and Falco to a lesser extent kill him and he's kinda underplayed, but he's a great character. Top of high tier may be a bit high I suppose, but he's still really good o.o

He's even with falco. Many say MK v Olimar is even.

 

[Dynamism?]

lol MK > Oli fo sho

wtf would you say the ICs are more mid for? That doesn't even make sense. Might as well say Ike is more bottom lol. Just cause you don't like em don't mean they bad. High fo sho

Why do people consistantly put Ness one space below Lucas? Where have you been? Seriously!?! lol

If Link's recovery was even decent, then he would be much better, but as it is it makes him pretty awful. The only reason he's usable is that he camps effectively and is pretty difficult to get offstage.
If Olimar's recovery was even decent, then he would be much better, but as it is it makes him pretty awful. The only reason he's usable is that he camps effectively and is pretty difficult to get offstage.

lol funny how that works

 

[Kiwikomix]

Except Oli outperforms Link in both of those respects.
He camps much better and doesn't have as crappy of a recovery. At least he can recover after being hit with one projectile.
Out of curiosity, why is Wario consistently being placed that high? He has a lot of grab release -> KO move weaknesses, and he can be infinite grabbed.

 

[DanGR]

lol MK > Oli fo sho

It's not as bad as you think.

If Olimar's recovery was even decent, then he would be much better, but as it is it makes him pretty awful. The only reason he's usable is that he camps effectively and is pretty difficult to get offstage.

huh? usable? He's much more than usable than most characters. You seem to underestimate his recovery as well. I'd much rather have Olimar's recovery than ivysaur's, sheik's, zelda's, bowser's, ganondorf's, DDD's, link's, or mario's.

Olimar
-Can be edgehogged, but your timing has to be good against a good Olimar. Olimar's tether is the longest of every tether recovery in the game. This means that there's a large window of opportunity I have to latch. If you time your roll back to stage too early, I'll wait a second before I latch. On fd, Olimar can latch back to the stage from below the screen. It's that long. If you don't roll quickly enough, I'll spike you to your death. If I have a white or purple in front, I'll latch to the stage, and you'll die. If not, we both die.

-Olimar can save his second jump. He's very floaty, so most of the time, he'll be able to get back to the stage with/o having to use his second jump. This leads me to my next point.

-Olimar's whistle has super armor frames. If I'm forced to use my second jump to get back, I'm probably recovering from below. The SA in the whistle is more than enough to avoid gimping(not edgehogging) almost entirely.

-Pikmin chain gives Olimar a slight boost. Often times, this gives Olimar enough of a jump to get back to the stage without being edgehogged. It has a hitbox, and if timed right, you'll get spiked. It also has some sort of strange uber priority, where no attack will clank with it. If Olimar is hit during it though, it won't give him the priority. I'd compare it with his grab.

-Pikmin can be thrown to get you off the edge. If I've got a purple up next, it'll knock you off, clearing an open ledge for Olimar. If I've got a white, and I'm too far from the stage to make it back, I'll go ahead and throw it onto you to rack 10-25% easily.

-Regular attacks to knock you off. This is simple. If I'm close enough to attack you while you hang, I will. I'll knock you off, and latch two seconds later with my extremely long tether.

Shrinkray has a nice combo video that includes some of these tactics that I've explained above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9qxZc67rnc

 

[popsofctown]

But they have the explosive power of a bomb and are empty.

That means...
When yoshi produces an egg the pressure inside of it is massive. So when it smacks someone it has the power that is slightly less than that of a bomb.

Or its harder than a rock...
>_>

summary: Yoshi is awesome

 

[LCB12321]

DanGR get access to the broom and tell everyone their ********.
If u dont know why, ull find out soon enough.

 

[psykoplympton]

if he had access to a broom he would clean up his act

 

[DanGR]

DanGR get access to the broom and tell everyone their ********.
If u dont know why, ull find out soon enough.

lol, I don't care where they place olimar. None of them even use him. If he turns out mid tier, I'll be able to say I'm that much better than the snakes, falcos, and GaWs I beat in-tourney.

if he had access to a broom he would clean up his act

what's that supposed to mean?

 

[LCB12321]

lol, I don't care where they place olimar. None of them even use him. If he turns out mid tier, I'll be able to say I'm that much better than the snakes, falco, and GaW's I beat in-tourney.

Ya, but still, its ghey if olimar is that low. Im hoping the list i saw is fake.

 

[Dynamism?]

It's not as bad as you think.

huh? usable? He's much more than usable than most characters. You seem to underestimate his recovery as well. I'd much rather have Olimar's recovery than ivysaur's, sheik's, zelda's, bowser's, ganondorf's, DDD's, link's, or mario's.

wtf are you talking about? I never said anything about it being bad.
Yes MK > Oli, even you know that.

And you just said his recovery is bad. Hence the way you have to point out the good traits of his recovery because it's worse and more complicated to use well than most. Thanks for supporting my statement after saying I underestimate it. You need to stop thinking that everything I post is sugar coded and what I think is that every character in this game is useless. I use every character on the roster and I'm probably the most unbiased person here, they're all good and I've used every character in this game successfully in tourney. I'll just take a guess that I know a little bit about how good the many recoveries are. Among other things.
lol
I'd still take recoveries from Sheik, Zelda, Dedede and Mario over his though. And Bowser is close.

summary: Yoshi is awesome

yeppers

DanGR get access to the broom and tell everyone their ********.
If u dont know why, ull find out soon enough.

lol I think I'm actually going to like this list

 

[DanGR]

stuff

No need to go all MK on me. I was just saying. :/

This is what prodded me to post:

"but as it is it makes him pretty awful"

 

[Gindler]

Hmmm, from what I've heard ZSS has the longest tether......not olimar

My sources could be wrong of course.

 

[Dynamism?]

Samus comes close or matches Oli too. Oli has to have all Piks though. And of course Samus/Zamus has other methods of recovery too. :O

No big deal Dan. And that was just a quote that seemed funny given the situation, also Link isn't exactly awful either.

 

[Gindler]

Yeah, and if Olimar doesn't have a purple...well he's dead. Purples are his savior.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

How can you take Oli's recovery ahead of D3's, he has like 5 jumps and his up B sends him up super high.

 

[Mmac]

How can you take Oli's recovery ahead of D3's, he has like 5 jumps and his up B sends him up super high.

His Movement speed in the air is slow, and his UpB is Predictable and linear as hell, and quite easy to intercept

 

[ShadowLink84]

Dangr about Olimar's recovery. Yes it is the longest tether recovery but itis also dependant on how many pikmin he has, and considering the pikmin are rather fragile its not often that you'll have 6 pikmin.

Especially against characters like sonic who have moves that turn their body into a hitbox.

Would it be fairer to say that on average Olimar would have 3-4 pikmin on average?

oh and you also have to deal with the insta-edgehog trick sothe opponent doesn't have to be very alert to edgehog Olimar.

I wish i could duplicte Link's boomerang glith without using the ledge...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Olimars recovery isn't a reason for placing him anywhere lower than high tier though.

Dynamisms update of the tier list looks good but Fox is too low now

 

[Guilhe]

His Movement speed in the air is slow, and his UpB is Predictable and linear as hell, and quite easy to intercept

Still, Triple D is one of the heaviest characters in the game and his recovery is much superior to other heavyweights. And it auto grab the ledge.

 

[ShadowLink84]

yeah despite Olimar have a lack luster recovery, it isn't as bad as it appears and its not like olimar will end up off the stage very often against most characters.

 

[Mmac]

Still, Triple D is one of the heaviest characters in the game and his recovery is much superior to other heavyweights. And it auto grab the ledge.

But it only grabs if he cancels out, which can be really risky from that distance with Lip Stages such as Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, or Pokemon Stadium Melee, or Pass Through Stages like Halberd and Delfino.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Still, Triple D is one of the heaviest characters in the game and his recovery is much superior to other heavyweights. And it auto grab the ledge.

You sure? i am quite sure he cannot grab the ledge unless you cancel it.

Regardless if his overall recovery is superior its still rather punished fairly easily.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Not only that but even if he cancels it some characters can still speed hog him (Sonic, I don't know any others but I'm sure there are some).