Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Excellence]

Samus comes close or matches Oli too. Oli has to have all Piks though. And of course Samus/Zamus has other methods of recovery too. :O

No big deal Dan. And that was just a quote that seemed funny given the situation, also Link isn't exactly awful either.

Please shut up. The statement that Samus comes close to Olimar is completely ridiculous, I suggest you revert back to the basics. Go ahead and pull Z-Air out of your *** and see what I pull outta mine.

Dangr about Olimar's recovery. Yes it is the longest tether recovery but itis also dependant on how many pikmin he has, and considering the pikmin are rather fragile its not often that you'll have 6 pikmin.

Especially against characters like sonic who have moves that turn their body into a hitbox.

Would it be fairer to say that on average Olimar would have 3-4 pikmin on average?

oh and you also have to deal with the insta-edgehog trick sothe opponent doesn't have to be very alert to edgehog Olimar.

I wish i could duplicte Link's boomerang glith without using the ledge...

No it wouldn't be fairer to say Olimar has 3-4 Pikmin on average. On most occasions, I have six Pikmin throughout the entire match (new plucks included). It's already been said Olimar plucks Pikmin extremely fast and can get six in under two seconds. That being said, once an Olimar reaches the higher percentages most of us keep a higher number of Pikmin. It's not like your going to be approaching, because you're scared. Your damage is most likely going to be in the KO percentages and it's more risky for you to come to us, period.

wtf are you talking about? I never said anything about it being bad.
Yes MK > Oli, even you know that.

And you just said his recovery is bad. Hence the way you have to point out the good traits of his recovery because it's worse and more complicated to use well than most. Thanks for supporting my statement after saying I underestimate it. You need to stop thinking that everything I post is sugar coded and what I think is that every character in this game is useless. I use every character on the roster and I'm probably the most unbiased person here, they're all good and I've used every character in this game successfully in tourney. I'll just take a guess that I know a little bit about how good the many recoveries are. Among other things.
lol
I'd still take recoveries from Sheik, Zelda, Dedede and Mario over his though. And Bowser is close.

yeppers

lol I think I'm actually going to like this list

He pointed out how Olimar's recovery options can cover his basic flaws. You're right when you say Olimar's recovery is complicated to use which is probably why you fail at it and think it's that bad.

If you were that unbiased you'd be in the Smash Back Room, so stop boasting your credibility, because it doesn't exist.

Just remember, while you try to recover with Shiek, Mario or Zelda we'll edgehog you using a six Pikmin long tether that you can't hit.

 

[asob4]

the backroom will place olimar high, they know his potential

mookierah, a respected player and backroomer plays with a very very good oli (on par, or better than me) on a consistent basis.
they know oli's potential and how good he is, they will not lower him simply because of recovery

 

[ShadowLink84]

**** straight.
WOMG SKANK IS THAT YOU!?

 

[asob4]

does my sig not say skank? hahahah

 

[deepseadiva]

the backroom will place olimar high, they know his potential

... they will not lower him simply because of recovery

The first part is true, but if the recovery is so much of a hamper - I dunno, I'm wary...

 

[ShadowLink84]

I don't know it could be saying...skunk? >_>

 

[Xeze]

the backroom will place olimar high, they know his potential

mookierah, a respected player and backroomer plays with a very very good oli (on par, or better than me) on a consistent basis.
they know oli's potential and how good he is, they will not lower him simply because of recovery

still I don't think Olimar will be placed in high tier. IMO he will fit in high-mid tier.

 

[asob4]

it's clearly an a >_>

danGR posted ways to get around the recovery
if you've ever played a competent olimar you would see how hard it is to actually get them off stage, and if you get that far, you will see that it is difficult to gimp a smart olimar.

olimar is clearly high tier. his pros far outweigh his cons.
not to mention his good match ups, which keep getting better for olimar
MK is becoming less of a problem

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Dedede is the hardest character to KO. He take the most damage both vertically and horizontally and his recovery is the best out of the heavyweights.

 

[asob4]

DDD's hormonal?

 

[popsofctown]

the backroom will place olimar high, they know his potential

mookierah, a respected player and backroomer plays with a very very good oli (on par, or better than me) on a consistent basis.
they know oli's potential and how good he is, they will not lower him simply because of recovery

if this gives any more credence to DanGR, DanGR has played Mookierah in tournament... and is part of where Mookie is forming his opinions. I think the guy he plays regularly might be that guy who came to the last tournament and got halway through the brackets.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Its clearly a poorly done U skank XD

 

[asob4]

it may have been, but i'm getting it from my friend who knows mookierah and visited him down there and played with mookie and his friends (one of them being the olimar)

yeah i mean clearly >_> lol

 

[ShadowLink84]

So you do admit its clearly a badly drawn U.

XD


pity you live Wc. =(

 

[asob4]

definitely :/ lol

i <3 WC

 

[Nitrix]

I'll try making a tier list. I based it off Dynamisms.



TOP:

MK
Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
ROB
Falco
DDD


HIGH:

Lucario
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Wario
Olimar
Kirby
Pit


MIDDLE:

Ice Climbers
Toon Link
Fox
Wolf
Zelda
Peach
Luigi
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Lucas


LOW:

Mario
Sonic
Bowser
Yoshi
Shiek
Pokemon Trainer
Ike
Samus


BOTTOM:

Link
Jigglypuff
Captian Falcon
Ganondorf

 

[ROOOOY!]

Pit isn't high tier material IMO.
And Ness should move above Peach.
Other than that, decent.

 

[BBQ°]

MK should have his own tier. He is on a different level than any other character.

Switch DK with Wario.

Fox is too high by a couple of places.

Switch C. Falcon with Ganondorf.

I like your tier list.

 

[MarthFanatique]

@ ROOOOY!

What do you mean? Peach has awesome recovery and can spawn a projectile item. She has mid-lower power, has a few KO moves, has a counter move, and has a temporary chain grab! She is fine where she is (if anything she should be mid-high tier.

 

[DanGR]

the backroom will place olimar high, they know his potential

mookierah, a respected player and backroomer plays with a very very good oli (on par, or better than me) on a consistent basis.
they know oli's potential and how good he is, they will not lower him simply because of recovery

lol, I played him in tourney. fun matches. He said afterwards that he doesn't play olimar often though!

 

[ROOOOY!]

?
I just commented on Ness' placing being too low. It's not like I said it to spite Peach. I don't know/care where she goes.

 

[popsofctown]

Lots of people think Olimar is bad, IMO, because they've played bad Olimars. Now, duh, there's bad people playing every character. But i think when you see someone use Marth poorly, it's easier to tell that it's that person and not Marth. While if you see Olimar play poorly, it's hard to see all the options the player is missing.

 

[asob4]

lol, I played him in tourney. fun matches. He said afterwards that he doesn't play olimar often though!

weird cause my friend said he played with mookie and his friend who plays a great olimar

i don't think you hang out with mookie that often haha

btw my friend is the toon link in my vids, clink

 

[Browny]

when you guys claim olimar doesnt have a bad recovery, im curious, who has a worse recovery? Im thinking Link, Ivysaur, Ganon... and maybe Ike. with around the 4-5th worst recovery out of 39 characters i think that alone classifies it as bad >_> roll-dodge to edgehog is so easy to do and time properly, if you ever werent edgehogged by someone, its simply because they were doing it wrong :/

 

[asob4]

we've all been edgehogged before

literally speaking, oli's recovery is bad, though it has great length and gives the extra boost

what makes it not bad is the players mind games and ability to read their opponents actions

 

[DanGR]

weird cause my friend said he played with mookie and his friend who plays a great olimar

i don't think you hang out with mookie that often haha

btw my friend is the toon link in my vids, clink

nope, lol It might be this guy called Jmoan or Jman or something. He's the only other Olimar i've seen. He was alright. If that's the guy-that is.

when you guys claim olimar doesnt have a bad recovery, im curious, who has a worse recovery? Im thinking Link, Ivysaur, Ganon... and maybe Ike. with around the 4-5th worst recovery out of 39 characters i think that alone classifies it as bad >_> roll-dodge to edgehog is so easy to do and time properly, if you ever werent edgehogged by someone, its simply because they were doing it wrong :/

Don't get me wrong, he's got a bad recovery. But he's got so many different ways to avoid getting killed while offstage that it's not as huge of a deal as people make it out to be. People don't see this when they're fighting normal Olimar players. As pops said earlier, it's hard to differentiate good olimars from the bad ones. Some of the choices we make can only be recognized as bad or good by Olimar mains. It's hard to explain.

The whistle alone can technically eliminate all gimping. We just has to deal with getting edgehogged. This is usually avoided by keeping our second jump, using our floatyness to get near the stage, and then using upb to get over the ledge if it's needed-similar to ness. Most stages don't even have far enough left/right bourndaries for it to matter anyways. It's mostly FD.

As for the worst recoveries, I'd have to say either link or ivysaur. ivysaur has the leaves to knock off hangers, but also has the tether that doesn't give him the boost that Olimar's has. Olimar also has WACing, purple and white pikmin, and better horizontal recovery.(correct me if I'm wrong) Link's just doesn't have very good distance. simple.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

@DJ: I'd say Olimar has the worst. Ike maybe but he is heavier and thus harder to toss around.

Ivy is definitely bottom 5 but her's beats Olimar.

Also, Link can bomb-recover like TL and tether giving him some distance from last.

Edit: @DanGR, Ivy can tether from above, below, and from the side of the stage as long as it is within range.

 

[Dynamism?]

Please shut up. The statement that Samus comes close to Olimar is completely ridiculous, I suggest you revert back to the basics. Go ahead and pull Z-Air out of your *** and see what I pull outta mine.

Her grapple is long. Almost as long as Olimars with all of his Pikmin. This isn't hard to understand lol. Maybe you should take your own words and shut up? Sorry, it'll just benefit you to read and learn a little.

He pointed out how Olimar's recovery options can cover his basic flaws. You're right when you say Olimar's recovery is complicated to use which is probably why you fail at it and think it's that bad.

It is bad. Everyone knows this. And what do you mean"that" bad? I didn't even say anything about a messurement of bad so for all I know he thinks it's worse. Again, learn read and learn. But yeah, you got the "it's not good" part right at least.

If you were that unbiased you'd be in the Smash Back Room, so stop boasting your credibility, because it doesn't exist.
Yeah about that, I've turned down 2 invites to the SBR so far, it's just not my thing. :\

lol, I played him in tourney. fun matches. He said afterwards that he doesn't play olimar often though!

That must've been sweet. I was in an online clan with him for about a week until Brawl came out and I ditched. He did a week later. Even though it would've been online he comes across as a fun player :D

what makes it not bad is the players mind games and ability to read their opponents actions

Tada!
^_^



Ike has a worse recovery than people think. He's just not very good all around and all of those "mingames" and "options" aren't efficient. Things need to be efficient and Ikes fsmash is the epitome of his efficiency. lol



Edit: That sig is ugly Skank, but that's why Plan 9s is so cool and that's why yours is so cool. I love it

 

[bazooka85]

Every creature known to man is either a male or female. Yoshi is a dinosaur which also makes him a reptile and every single reptile that can lay eggs is a female. This is why i think Yoshi is a female. It's really nothing to get offended over though.

If you want to get scientific, all brawl characters other than the ones with wings or jet packs should not be about to double jump

plus, the height at which some of these characters' jump would mean huge budging calves, but which would also create a discrepancy between the correlation of jump height versus a kick attack that barely does damage

remove DI too and the energy created from any projectiles have to weigh down a character as they shoot away

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

@Zooka: That's not logic, you are talking physics. The game makes up it's physics, we just play with the logic.

 

[bazooka85]

i ***** a ganon 3-0 stock with two chars and officially title his class

Unfertile Dirt

 

[bazooka85]

@Zooka: That's not logic, you are talking physics. The game makes up it's physics, we just play with the logic.

well i did not call it logic, i called it 'scientific'

too many rules are broken, maybe Yoshi is asexual

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Don't double-post.

Also, just because you can win with a character doesn't mean they are good.

I have won with every character in the game, that doesn't mean there aren't tiers.

 

[Guilhe]

Ike has a worse recovery than people think. He's just not very good all around and all of those "mingames" and "options" aren't efficient. Things need to be efficient and Ikes fsmash is the epitome of his efficiency. lol

Ike's recovery is average all round. The sword scouting ahead, SA frames and spike prevent Ike from being gimped during the Aether execution in most matchups. Of course there are cases like Pikachu or Sonic who can gimp Ike before the SA frames take effect, but these two are the only cases that I know. Of course QD is useless for recovery, but by strafing Ike can travel the same distance he would if he were to use a fully charged QD.

 

[bazooka85]

No, i am just saying ganon is the worst char in brawl

bottom of the bottom is still not low enough

he needs to be tagged unfertile dirt

 

[MysticKenji]

Ike's recovery is average all round. The sword scouting ahead, SA frames and spike prevent Ike from being gimped during the Aether execution in most matchups.

This is true.

Of course there are cases like Pikachu or Sonic who can gimp Ike before the SA frames take effect/after they end, but these two are the only cases that I know.

1. Fix'd
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGaGubgWA80

 

[Dynamism?]

Godzilla is asexual. There is no female or male. So is Yoshi. We also call Yoshi a he because he is masculin for a "lizard" but at the same time we call Birdo a she (well some do) because it is feminin but they are of the same gender. None. lol

 

[Yinlong]

i'd just like to add that birdo in japan is a guy called catherine
yeah, i know, its confusing.

 

[Scala]

No, i am just saying ganon is the worst char in brawl

bottom of the bottom is still not low enough

he needs to be tagged unfertile dirt

I used to think that, until I saw Jekyll play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tscb6O21JCs
This is the only recent video of him.. he doesn't win in this video but he was destroying people that day

 

[adumbrodeus]

I used to think that, until I saw Jekyll play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tscb6O21JCs
This is the only recent video of him.. he doesn't win in this video but he was destroying people that day

One good person does not make a character good.

Sorry, but no.