Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[WolfCypher]

Exactly how close to completion is the official tier list and exactly who do we know for sure are in what tiers?

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

I was obviously expecting negative criticism after posting my tier list idea, but I was at least hoping for something other than flaming and childish remarks. At least ganondorf4ever and to a lesser extent Nigerian Star Storm explained why they disagree or why I'm wrong.

@Tim: I have nothing against G&W. You make it sound like I'm out to get him. I told everyone going in that this tierlist was from all of MY personal experiences. If I still explain my actions, and people still go in ready to attack, well then what else can I do? I guess it always easier to bash than to disagree and explain why I'm wrong. But I was ready for that anyway.

It just seems like you refuse to accept G&W as a good character. If you want to play some games, I can show you how good he is.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Marth is not top tier.

Side note: **** my new sig is awesome. Subtle yet powerful.

Definitely not, especially in comparison to G&W, MK, and Snake.

Concerning your sig, I think it looks good but something about Marth's placement seems a bit off. =/

 

[BBQ°]

this tierlist was from all of MY personal experiences

If we all made tier list like that it would be pointless. Here would be mine


******** Broken Tier:
Mr. Game and Watch

Annoying Tier:
Pit
Sonic

I Feel Sorry For These Guys Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ness
Lucas

Everyone Else Tier:
Everyone else

 

[WolfCypher]

It just seems like you refuse to accept G&W as a good character. If you want to play some games, I can show you how good he is.

Well, I try not to show biased against G&W, but you are right, I don't see the potential everyone else do, and I've seen tourney vids. I just always see G&W as a middleground character...he's good. Not spectacular, but good. Well, you so strongly state that he's a good character, so I'll take your word for it. I never hated him, more like underestimate him.

If you have any videos of yourself as G&W in action, I'd gladly watch them. Until I get my router fixed, I haven't been able to even get online on my Wii for a little over a week. Otherwise, I'd take that challenge.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Well, I try not to show biased against G&W, but you are right, I don't see the potential everyone else do, and I've seen tourney vids. I just always see G&W as a middleground character...he's good. Not spectacular, but good. Well, you so strongly state that he's a good character, so I'll take your word for it. I never hated him, more like underestimate him.

If you have any videos of yourself as G&W in action, I'd gladly watch them. Until I get my router fixed, I haven't been able to even get online on my Wii for a little over a week. Otherwise, I'd take that challenge.

I actually don't know how to post videos online. I'm assuming you copy the replay to an SD card and upload it that way but I don't have a free SD card. It's hard to see how good G&W is through videos because he isn't really all that flashy. It's like watching DK or Bowser, they just don't look as good visually as Snake or MK do.

 

[metalmonstar]

If all goes well the SFR should have a finished tier list by August. We have slowed down a bit so I think July may be a stretch. It is still possible though. The SFR has also faced some setbacks that has slowed us down a bit.

The SFR only agrees on a handful of characters

Snake, Metaknight, and Game and watch for top tier.

Wolf, Pikachu and Olimar for somewhere in High/very high.

 

[WolfCypher]

Well the answer me this, please, then I'll be done. Honestly, where does G&W (and Lucario, but I'm interested in it for my own reasons) rank on the tierlist? High? Top?!

 

[stoopdklutz]

At least thats SOME confirmation. Won't really have to argue on them then..

 

[BBQ°]

Why don't you guys just fight online? There's no better experience of Mr. G&W than first hand experience.

@ Tim: The replays aren't actually recorded, a program just memorizes your button inputs and replays the match for you. That's why you can change the camera view with L or R, and taunt messages (from online) won't show up in the replay, and also it only takes 1 block of memory and it takes a second to save the match replay. This means that only the game can read the replays and uploading it to a computer wouldn't do anything (unless you had Brawl on your computer).

 

[BBQ°]

Well the answer me this, please, then I'll be done. Honestly, where does G&W (and Lucario, but I'm interested in it for my own reasons) rank on the tierlist? High? Top?!

G&W should be placed in top tier along with Snake and Metaknight. IMO, he's the best character in the game because of match-ups and pure brokeness. And for the record, I don't main G&W but I have to verse one a lot because my friend uses him.

 

[metalmonstar]

Lucario is upper middle while Game and watch is most likely top probably even the third best character in the game.

 

[WolfCypher]

Well, that info Metalmonster posted (sorry, I didn't see your post until after I already posted) is good news. I expect, like with Melee, that the Brawl list will get changed and updated over the years, with subtle changes.

Funny thing, my friend in Denver just started to main G&W, and he has no idea where G&W ranks, yet he hates using top tier characters. Wonder if he'll keep this character after the tierlist hits.

Lucario's upper-middle tier? So not high tier? Well at least one of my 4 mains isn't in the two highest tiers.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Lol. It's always fun to have mains that completely suck. My mains are G&W, Ganon, and DK. WOOT WOOT!

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Eh, I think that in the end, Brawl will be a big ten game, similar to Melee. I can dig on that. Maybe we'll find some sort of AT that makes the next ten or so characters usable, but I'd much rather just play it safe if I want to win.
Marth <3

 

[Blistering Speed]

This coming from a Samus mainer? Or is that just for friendlies now?

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

And btw Kiwikomix, nice post about Yoshi

OK, about this popularity tourny rankings thing, I still do not get it. You can fix popularity by averaging the scores. The 'noobies' wouldn't lower a character's ranking, because a character only gains points if he gets like top 4 or something, so the noobies' bad rankings wouldn't be counted. So, it would be balanced, right? o.0.


Edit: who noes! it's the 666th page! everyone run for your lives! (lol)

 

[MysticKenji]

Actually, that is what Ankoku is doing.
Only it's extended to top 8.

 

[Gindler]

Concerning Yoshi:
The fluffy dino has a few things in his way to becoming a usable character. Certainly he is not given as much credit as he deserves, but here's a quick breakdown of his pros and cons, and some reasoning behind them.

Pros
- Fast on the ground (This is very true. His tilts and jab come out almost instantly, and his running speed is faster than Toon Link's.)
- Great aerial game (Each aerial has a specific use, whether it's the best damage-racking aerial in the game, a combo breaker, a chaining/WOP move, a spike, or a KO move.)
- Best aerial speed (Not necessarily how long it takes for moves to come out, but he moves through the air at the fastest speed in the game.)
- Spammable projectile (Slower characters on the ground or air and bigger targets have many problems with the eggs, and it can also be used to rack up damage while edgeguarding.
- SA frames on second jumps (This makes it a lot harder to edgeguard Yoshi, not to mention that lack of DJC is actually a buff considering Brawl's physics.)

Cons
- Crappy shield (It can't be jumped out of, but really, that doesn't bother Yoshi as much as how long it takes to attack out of his shield on the ground. This makes him easily pressured and limits his defense game.)
- Somewhat of a big target (This makes for a poor size/weight ratio, since Yoshi can't tank as well as he could in previous games.)
- Recovery relies heavily on second jump (This isn't that big of a problem unless Yoshi's below the stage... if he's level or higher, then he can recover with egg throw. Also note that Yoshi is extremely sucseptible to footstools. In most situations, however, Yoshi's recovery is almost impossible to edgeguard.)

Matchups
I put these under neither pros nor cons, considering that Yoshi's matchups are commonly considered to be crap, even though he can actually do well against some higher tiered characters. For example, he has a lot less of a disadvantage to Snake than most other "established low tier" characters, and he's a good counter to Olimar. (Jury's out on whether he's good or bad against Marth... both characters will say they win.) However, he falls against MK and G-Dub just as much as most other characters, and projectile spams (aka Falco) can hurt him badly due to his slow roll. Against some projectiles, of course, he can spam right back, and his aerials often go through them, but it's hit or miss against spams for Yoshi. He does, however, beat most low/bottom/lower mid characters pretty easily.

Tournament Standings
Sure, I could go on about how "nobody likes Yoshi" and "he's not popular enough", and while that's true to an extent, he should at least have SOME tournament standings. If he wants to be considered better, he should start placing better.

Conclusion
Yoshi is certainly a character with a number of misconceptions, but he does have enough blatant weaknesses to keep him from advancing too much. It does seem like he's better than characters like Captain Falcon and Jiggz who have placed better than him, but until people see some hard facts, they won't be placing him anywhere higher than low.

Very nice list. finally someone admits yoshi has a good recovery, everyone seems to forget about his heavy armor frames which are great for countering and what nots. But yeah tourney results for him suck hard apparently so I'll take where ever he is on the tier list since that won't effect whether I play him or not (which i still will even if he's bottom tier just like melee)


But I think we can all agree that Snake and MK are top tier for two reason, they're outrageously good and it's obvious they're going to be nerfed in the next game, second reason is that at least half the people that play brawl in tournaments use these 2 characters since they're relatively easy to pick up (don't even try to argue that anyone you all know it's true)

The only characters that were really played in melee were shiek, fox, falco, marth, peach, and jiggz (everyonce in a while you'd see a samus or doc but yeah) so what is that less than half the cast from the game? The same thing might happen to brawl but I'm sure everyone can agree that every character is at least "usable" unlike in melee

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

But I think we can all agree that Snake and MK are top tier for two reason, they're outrageously good and it's obvious they're going to be nerfed in the next game, second reason is that at least half the people that play brawl in tournaments use these 2 characters since they're relatively easy to pick up (don't even try to argue that anyone you all know it's true)

I wouldn't even be surprised if they took Snake and Sonic out of the next game for some new third-party characters

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Ya, I can't really think of any char who isn't usable... Some you hav 2 practice more with, like marth, and some are really easy to pick up, like MK and Snake, but all of them are usable...


And at Tim_the_enchanter, they would neva take out sonic, tha reason he was put in wuz cuz tha fans wanted him in, and they will probably just nerf snake, not take him out.

 

[metalmonstar]

DON'T POST ON THIS PAGE IT IS BAD LUCK. STOP NOW.

Anyway yeah I can see 10 character dominating the Brawl tournament scene. I happen to like the 10 characters better this time around. Also I like Middle tier will be more tournament viable while low and bottom will be even less viable.

 

[Blackbelt]

against my better judgment, I'm gonna post my tier list.

Please be honest about what you think about it.


Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch

High Tier:
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Pikachu
King Dedede
Zelda
Pit

High-Mid Tier:
Wario
Toon Link
Olimar
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Diddy Kong


Mid Tier:
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Fox
ZSS
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Bowser
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

 

[Sudsy86_]

Well the answer me this, please, then I'll be done. Honestly, where does G&W (and Lucario, but I'm interested in it for my own reasons) rank on the tierlist? High? Top?!

G&W is no worse that the second highest tier ( probably top six character), and my belief is that Lucario is about middle tier ( he's very predictable).

 

[popsofctown]

@Blackbelt: I don't see anything vastly out of place on your tier chart. I could tell you all the chars i would move two space or three, but that's pointless, how much more do i know than you anyway?
I still think that ICs should be in a bubble by themselves, their potential is greatly dependent on if their CG gets banned and if people are afraid to main them because it might be banned and so on and whatnot.

 

[stoopdklutz]

Even if the infinite grab gets banned they still have a lot of options (which I haven't learned much off =p)



downthrow to fair, back toss to charged upsmash, Ice block lock,
downthrow/forward throw to fair spike, hobbling, smashing while
grabbed, they have a lot of grab option beside the infinite.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

against my better judgment, I'm gonna post my tier list.

Please be honest about what you think about it.


Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch

High Tier:
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Pikachu
King Dedede
Zelda
Pit

High-Mid Tier:
Wario
Toon Link
Olimar
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Diddy Kong


Mid Tier:
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Fox
ZSS
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Bowser
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

Erm....are you sure this is yours? This looks very familiar to one of my previous lists with a few edits O_o.

 

[Blackbelt]

Erm....are you sure this is yours? This looks very familiar to one of my previous lists with a few edits O_o.

Actually, it's your list from your newest Gamefaqs topic with a few edits.

 

[Kiwikomix]

If all goes well the SFR should have a finished tier list by August. We have slowed down a bit so I think July may be a stretch. It is still possible though. The SFR has also faced some setbacks that has slowed us down a bit.

The SFR only agrees on a handful of characters

Snake, Metaknight, and Game and watch for top tier.

Wolf, Pikachu and Olimar for somewhere in High/very high.

Haha yeah, we are pretty diversified in our opinions. Good thing I'm always right

The only characters that were really played in melee were shiek, fox, falco, marth, peach, and jiggz (everyonce in a while you'd see a samus or doc but yeah) so what is that less than half the cast from the game? The same thing might happen to brawl but I'm sure everyone can agree that every character is at least "usable" unlike in melee

Bah, I always thought that lots of characters were "usable" in Melee. I, for example used Pikachu, and the only overused character that shuts him down that badly is Marth.. he can hold his own at least semi-well against the others. And he wins the low tier.
Remember that popularity is still an issue among characters in games.
Also, didn't you forget the Captain? I know he wasn't the most used but he was still decent.

 

[Fearmy]

against my better judgment, I'm gonna post my tier list.

Please be honest about what you think about it.


Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch

High Tier:
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Pikachu
King Dedede
Zelda
Pit

High-Mid Tier:
Wario
Toon Link
Olimar
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Diddy Kong


Mid Tier:
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Fox
ZSS
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Bowser
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

I agree with this actually.

 

[Nestec]

Hey, you SFRers are forgetting your #1 rule. ^__^

 

[Emblem Lord]

SFR fails cuz I ain't in it.

 

[Nestec]

Eh, honestly, XD, how credible is this SFR?? LMAO *Ahem!*

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

SFR fails cuz I ain't in it.

I offered you a chance, but you didn't want to be in it because Bdawg was in it >_____>

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yup. I want no part of any group that would willingly invite him in.

He has made some of the most ridiculous arguments in this thread.

 

[metalmonstar]

How about we PM you who were on and you can give us a synopsis that will post in our discussion?

How about you and Bdawg settle your disagreements with a Marth vs DK money match?

 

[RoyalBlood]

against my better judgment, I'm gonna post my tier list.

Please be honest about what you think about it.


Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch

High Tier:
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Pikachu
King Dedede
Zelda
Pit

High-Mid Tier:
Wario
Toon Link
Olimar
Wolf
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Diddy Kong


Mid Tier:
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Fox
ZSS
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Bowser
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Peach
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

This is pretty accurate

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

against my better judgment, I'm gonna post my tier list.

Please be honest about what you think about it.


Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch

High Tier:
Marth - WTF way to high.
Falco
R.O.B.
Pikachu - Can afford a lower spot
King Dedede
Zelda - lol....
Pit - He's upper mid tier at best.

High-Mid Tier:
Wario - I don't understand how Pit and Zelda make high tier and not Wario
Toon Link - Could afford to go down a few slots.
Olimar
Wolf
Donkey Kong - Put him on top of high-mid and I might be somewhat satisfied, but only if pit and Zelda go down
Lucario
Diddy Kong


Mid Tier:
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Fox
ZSS
Lucas
Luigi - Needs to be higher
Mario
Ness - Can go a few slots higher
Sheik

Mid-Low tier :
Bowser
Sonic - Has the potential to move up to the bottom of mid.
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Peach - Definetly deserves more credit than this.
Ganondorf - Good ****.

Low Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff - Just switch her with Captain Falcon...lol

Just my input. Your mid, mid-low and low seem very accurate in the current metagame, but there are a lot of things I disagree with in your high and high-mid categories.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's not necessary. Two of the SFR members have posted tier list on Gamefaqs and they are both really good.

All of you seem to have a good handle on who is in each tier and why.

Also Marth is garbage on wifi and I have yet to beat any good DK online. So let's just give that to BDawg and not waste anyone's time.

 

[rubiksfriend]

10000winget