Official BBR Tier List v7

[DMG]

P:M buffer is set the same as Melee

What you probably hear people complain about is the 1 frame difference in certain movement/mechanics, which is semi legitimate and for technical players can shift things a bit.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

That's what I mean.
It's really hard to get the guaranteed shield break in Melee because of the lack of buffering.

That might not have been a problem for you in that aforementioned Brawl mod with shield stun if buffering was present.

Eh I still flub up even with buffering. It's not exactly something you can just pick up and do perfectly every time. With brawls input delay 'bug?' It's actually harder to do. The game will drop my inputs quite a lot. Tested using the code to delete the delay. Peach is MUCH faster and it appears sometimes I input too fast for vbrawl to keep up since I wouldn't mess up with said code active and her cancels came out faster and she could use her moves quickler too. Shame brawl's so buggy might have been a good game.

Oh and screw tripping.. seriously.

Though I just realized I spent waaaaaaaaaaay too much time talking about brawl. >.< Seriously. Maybe I hope Peach will be viable one day and someone won't give in like I did. Though looking over apex results lol not going to happen. The more you know non existant Peach users... the more you know.

Since any tactic you try to use against a MK who just sits and waits for you to approach the more he will lol and SL and nado every option you have.

Oh.. and from now on we should all use the term 'Peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's' Let's get this on stream people!

 

[Shaya]

Wait, since when was Fox' bair +4 on shield? mother of god.

Marth's perfectly auto cancelled nair is +2 (or was it +3?) :3 [and maybe that was tipper and it's better for non]

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Marth's tippers have higher hitlag which would make them less safe on shield, I think.

 

[Shaya]

I know that.

What I meant was that I forgot whether the +2/+3 was from the tipper (in which case it would be better for non-tipper) or vice versa. Likely the latter.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Wo, what BS have I woken up too today. I would like to point out that what desu says is BS. All he does is troll and insult people for his own enjoyment with the help of his minion. None should have responded to him. Though I can take advantage of this. Leads me to educate by correcting the stupid nonsense this dude has been spilling for a few pages. and makes me look good. Just by past his post. He will get bored like a typical troll and move on.

Now to make something real clear. There is NO Float Canceling in Peach. Jumping and then floating is NOT float canceling for those that may be confused. Float canceling is when you float with an air attack and land to suffer no lag. So in melee Peach had not much need to L cancel cause of this. In brawl there is none. And here is how to prove it

Peach fair is the only air attack she has that can actually lag if you fall at the wrong time. Ground Float with Peach and as she brings her arms down, touch the floor and mash jab. Peach will suffer some heavy lag and no jab will come out.

Now with that out the way:

I'll go for a grab from Peach's fair like that if I were certain the height at which she did it / it's been relatively staled hence skewing Peach's advantage to little. Just holding shield longer will tend to make the Peach also wait longer (or do things more awkwardly) than previously, in which case, sure I'll grab/attack~

Point
|
My head though

If I fair you can NOT grab me. You are going to get slap. You really wanna know why you get away with this. If Peach fairs a lil early, she will not touch the floor in time to AC. By the time she does, it be too late to Jab before grabs. You have to fair at a point that when you hit shield, you AC and gain advantage where people can't attack nor grab. You are not grabbing a spaced times fair.

Holding shield longer does nothing. There is a time upon falling where Peach much fair to keep her AC on point. Or else it will be off by a few frames and have you thinking countering it is legit. This does not work AT ALL. This rule for Peach can not be negated. its the way her move works. Once again you can't before a jab comes out unless you are Marth with an up-B or Powershield.

Ice Climbers can grab it? I doubt that.

No, and its worst for them since their grab window is short. Fair is a move that needs to be done on point. if you are mashing fair and not timing your landing with it, you are risking keeping yourself safe from shield. This be the main reason people get grabs on her and actually think they can. if you it correctly, there is not a single character in this game that can grab her before a jab. No matter how many times they get slapped, they keep trying cause they just hoping they get it.

Peach's Fair does not kill middle weights at 130%, if you Di it properly a fresh Fair from the Center of FD does not kill Marth when he's hit at 145%, This is done with regular Di to the top corner + fast falling.

Peach shouldn't be killing middle weights and heavy weights before 150%, she does, your Di sucks.

If you're talking about light characters, I can see 130% possibly happening from the centre of the stage, but not on heavies/ middle weights. D3 and Snake can survive her Fair at 200% from the centre.

However, if you're closer to the blast lines, obviously it will kill earlier.

With Peach's Fair if you do ground float Fair -> AC it's 0 on block, but if you do it while still falling, you're able to buffer the grab and grab her as she lands.

There is something you need to understand. Stage position matters with kills. if I land a attack that is suppose to kill someone at 100% and I am at the other side of the stage when I hit them, they will not die cause They are being launched to the other side of the stage, away from the death zone. So being this center stage talk means nothing, cause this applies to EVERYONE with horizontal kills.

And you are not grabbing a space fair. You are out of reach and will get hit. People have tried this on me. And its because of people like you that all tend to try and grab me in a situation they have no control all. Buffer of not. And if you even think Buffering a grab after you block fair, wont do anything ether. We both still move at the same time. You buffer grab, I buffer jab, you lose.

Marth still lives at 140% at the ledge of FD with a fresh Fair.

You really are one of the worst troll I ever seen. This is how low one would go to troll people? Say stupid stuff like this when common sense would point the obvious? And the fact that you tested this? That's also a lie. Its impossible to DI that at 140. So not only are you one of the worst trolls I have ever met, but also a very dense liar.

Actually.

Peach's Fair auto cancels on Frame 20.
And hits from 16 - 19.

Her short hop is in the air for 51 frames, meaning if you Short Hop Fair, you're still going to fall for another 32 frames, meaning you miss the auto cancel window.

Hm.. 32 frames of falling, okay.

Now.. if you fast fall, she's still in the air for 24 frames after the Fair hitbox ends.
Hm.. 24 frames of falling, okay.


Now if you do Fair 20 frames before landing, you get 0 on block.
Which is why float cancelling is useful because it basically makes you AC Fair on frame 20, allowing for the 0 on Block.

Now, here's your frame data. I'm showering.

If Peach faired as she short hop, there is no way she gain any advantage on block, she is completely open. If Peach jumped/flaoat, then faired AS SHE IS ABOUT TO TOUCH THE FLOOR, That's how she gains advantages on block. Was this not known in terms of being safe and auto canceling moves?

Where are you going with this?

Peach's fair on shield is advantageous to Peach if she AC's correctly.

Damage 14, hitlag 1, damage on frame 16, AC on frame 20.... that's like 10 frames of shield advantage, you should not be getting shield grabbed unless you put the controller down.

It isn't 0 on block, it's like +10, IIRC. Try it out in debug, lol.

0 on block dude.

If Peach fairs my shield I'd probably roll into her and Rest if she tried to capitalize

love having a frame 1 move :3

Glad you brought this up. I said yesterday that If Peach was to fair shield that people could not side step cause they are open for 2 frames before they are invincible. C.J brought to my attention that this is false. They are only open for 1. I made this mistake cause I got it confused with rolls. Some characters have rolls were they are open for 2 frames before being invincible. Peach is one of them. I think this is the average window. if so, You cant roll. You would get hit out of it. But I'm gonna check just to make sure.

Heh heh-heh. This was too easy.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Dark.pch I corrected myself later in the thread. I had one of the calc values wrong. It is in fact 0 on shield.

Also, I don't think people quite understand how powershielding works. All it does is reduce shield drop frames to 0 and reduce shield pushback. That's it. If a move is 0 on shield and it gets perfect shielded, that means the situation is reset and nothing more. It means Peach's jab still works. If Marth up-bs you should be able to shield it with a perfect AC fair.

A powershield basically makes any move an OOS option as good as grabbing or jumping, nothing more. The difference between marth using upb oos and out of powershield is non-existent. Well, PS might be 1 frame better since you have to JC upb oos.

 

[smashkng]

I think you also get a tiny bit of invincibility when you PS. I think that's why certain characters can shield grab MK's low height and badly spaced Tornado if they PS.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Dark.pch I corrected myself later in the thread. I had one of the calc values wrong. It is in fact 0 on shield.

Also, I don't think people quite understand how powershielding works. All it does is reduce shield drop frames to 0 and reduce shield pushback. That's it. If a move is 0 on shield and it gets perfect shielded, that means the situation is reset and nothing more. It means Peach's jab still works. If Marth up-bs you should be able to shield it with a perfect AC fair.

A powershield basically makes any move an OOS option as good as grabbing or jumping, nothing more. The difference between marth using upb oos and out of powershield is non-existent. Well, PS might be 1 frame better since you have to JC upb oos.

Wait, so you telling me, even if one PS my fair, they still can't punish me before a Jab comes out?

And I know that I can block after fair on shield and marth up-b. This is what I do to bait up-s. Or evade after fair once I get them use to thinking I would jab shield.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Unless they have a move faster than 2 frames, then that is exactly what I'm saying.

0 on shield means it is always a reset because shield drop frames aren't taken into account.

In the case of Peach, that means you can always shield any response after a perfectly auto cancelled fair on shield if they powershield (except in the case of grab, obviously). The same is true of say, a charged zss dsmash. And unless the guy has an up+b like Marth's or Mario's, a 1 frame jab like ZSS and Squirtle, etc., jab will always win in every single case unless they keep holding shield down.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yo............Peach is broken.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Peach is out of lag while the other character is still in shieldstun. You can grab them before they can grab you. Peach fair is the best example of a move that is unpunishable on block.

HAHAHAHAHAH omg lol

*is the resident Dedede main*

*is loling*

Well obviously you don't. You are just saying bull**** that seems to work on you because you aren't optimally using your frameadvantage. Hitlag has nothing to do with ko power, what the hell? And how does airspeed or fallspeed have anything to do with shieldgrabbing fair? It's still safe on block. And obviously you don't use fair unless you land with it during the ac window. I thought it would be obvious to any Peach player.

ITT: people who don't know what SDI is or how much it can potentially affect kill power

Stay bad

That's directed at Grim too just ftr, i refuse to quote you.


Just ftr, I've lived from Peach's FAir at around 290%. SDI yo.


Seriously, if you think that good SDI + momentum cancelling can't drastically increase survivability... you just might want to quit Brawl now.

 

[DMG]

I think you also get a tiny bit of invincibility when you PS. I think that's why certain characters can shield grab MK's low height and badly spaced Tornado if they PS.

No, Im nearly certain this is because MK tornado has "delay" between hitboxes when it hits something. That delay is long enough for character to grab/Upb/etc quickly if they get the PS.

 

[-LzR-]

HAHAHAHAHAH omg lol

*is the resident Dedede main*

*is loling*



ITT: people who don't know what SDI is or how much it can potentially affect kill power

Stay bad

That's directed at Grim too just ftr, i refuse to quote you.


Just ftr, I've lived from Peach's FAir at around 290%. SDI yo.


Seriously, if you think that good SDI + momentum cancelling can't drastically increase survivability... you just might want to quit Brawl now.

If you are going to troll, at least try. There is no point in making yourself look ******** just for the sake of trolling. What would there be for you gain from you doing so?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

If you are going to troll, at least try. There is no point in making yourself look ******** just for the sake of trolling. What would there be for you gain from you doing so?

He's not trolling, well maybe exhaggerated the 290%~ More like 250 someodd from matches we played. Though he's not wrong.

Dark Pch stay bad. I forgot though we should all look into your at: Pivot Toad!

LOL at me teaching you her peach goes bat**** crazy ac's. I still remember the day lmao.

Also my zelda too scary for you. It's like Peach is easy once you know how to abuse her flaws lmaooo

Peach is a bad character, accept it and move on instead of trying to find some saving grace in her, told ya once you didn't listen and I'll tell ya again. if she's broken why isn't she placing well? lmao

Also poke tests things a lot, I also played against people who know how to di.. dunno about you though. Meh, stay free~ <3

 

[RaptorTEC]

>Telling a better player to stay free

 

[Deven3000]

>Telling a better player to stay free

Stay free

 

[Dark.Pch]

>Telling a better player to stay free

Haters/trolls,

I just turn them into motivators. If they come at me all the time and trying to put me down or make me look bad to people, I must be important. Something of lil importance should not be wasted so much time on and looked past it. So I am doing something right. They try to bring me down, so I can feel on the same level as them. Blinding me from what I must do.

They are only powerful and correct when you decided to give them the power. They never had power over you at all to begin with. these fools fear they will never be able to get to where I am right now. Letting it get to me will hole me back from further surpassing the morons. Learned not to care what they think of me. There will always be people who wan't to see me fail cause they can't succeed. And I will have more things for people to hate on. They see me as a threat. A threat is something to focus and worry on about. Not something that is of lil importance or does not matter.

Heard and seen this many times. Never payed any mind to it. Now I see. Took me this long. But now it's all clear to me. It took the death of my own brother for me to realize this. So let them talk. I have no reason to respond back to morons. Them doing this so much just shows me im whats up and all that I need.

Let it be known who I am. I'm Dark.Pch, the one and only. The only Peach player with no limits and no exceptions. Emo jokes, trolls, personal comments? Bring them You just keep me updated as to what a good job I am doing when I say nothing. Thanks for keeping me a check. My job is to make you look more stupid by doing my thing with a character you think is bad. Tell your friends about me. Cause I can never have enough motivation.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Dark Peach, you're an idiot.

Learn to Di, Understand I was providing the frame data for what makes Peach's Fair safe and Unsafe.

I know about stage positioning and such, which is WHY I specified the centre, later testing the edge and reposting.

I also explained that you can grab Peach IF she doesn't do a perfect fair.


We also cleared up the argument with the terms we call differently between regions.

Peachy and I, and others called it "float cancelling" because it's the act of using a float to cancel your jump and input an aerial for the soonest possible cancel, but now it's Peach goes bat**** crazy with acs.

Also you live in Manhattan, New York.
Also you responded to something that had been cleared up already, and called us morons.

You're the moron for bringing it up again.

I'm just responding because you're an idiot.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Dark Peach, you're a ****ing idiot.

Learn to Di, Understand I was providing the frame data for what makes Peach's Fair safe and Unsafe.

I know about stage positioning and such, which is WHY I specified the centre, later testing the edge and reposting.

I also explained that you can grab Peach IF she doesn't do a perfect fair.


We also cleared up the argument with the terms we call differently between regions.

Peachy and I, and others called it "float cancelling" because it's the act of using a float to cancel your jump and input an aerial for the soonest possible cancel, but now it's Peach goes bat**** crazy with acs.

Also you live in Manhattan, New York.

Think I'll play with you for a while. Before I start ignoring you along with your girlfriend.

You explain something I covered many times and long ago already. I had already broke it down when people asked. You wasn't proving a damm thing and your data here ment nothing. Your stage position part ment nothing as well. Though that was already obvious.

Now I don't know how you canadians do it up there, but in this here usa when we use a term, we use it by its proper meaning. The fact that you and your girlfriend try to insult people and be tools to others for correcting you on something that is not true makes you the idiot here. And thats what float cancelling really is, and what others were trying to tell you morons. And the meaning we follow by it. it's TRUE meaning. And you insist to be tools to them cause you wanted to change the meaning of something cause its some " canada" thing? Really? REALLY?

I'm the idiot here? Heh-heh heh, you are too kind. Though you should insult me harder, come on you can do better than that. Step your game up. So you can get some lol from a boost and have that motivating you to think you are cool and funny. Try some emo jokes. I heard those are very popular these days for getting Dark.Pch really mad. These insults are sooooo 2008.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I was giving the people who were arguing here, clarification.
NOT EVERYONE ON SMASHBOARDS. Idiot.

Proper meaning ?IN BRAWL THE TERMS ARE DIFFERENT AND THE MEANING IS THE SAME.
In Melee, the terms are the same but the meanings are different. Two different games.

I'm not being a tool, I was explain a difference between regions and why we say it, just because you're American doesn't mean you're right. Just because I'm Canadian doesn't mean I'm right.

How am I being a tool for clarifying the differences ?

I'm not going to make Emo jokes or insult you, you're just being a total idiot here.

And thank you for recognising my love for Peachy~ I love him so much ^-^

ALSO.



Are you Admiral Pit ?

 

[Dark.Pch]

I was giving the people who were arguing here, clarification.
NOT EVERYONE ON SMASHBOARDS. Idiot.

Proper meaning ?IN BRAWL THE TERMS ARE DIFFERENT AND THE MEANING IS THE SAME.
In Melee, the terms are the same but the meanings are different. Two different games.

I'm not being a tool, I was explain a difference between regions and why we say it, just because you're American doesn't mean you're right. Just because I'm Canadian doesn't mean I'm right.

How am I being a tool for clarifying the differences ?

I'm not going to make Emo jokes or insult you, you're just being a total idiot here.

And thank you for recognising my love for Peachy~ I love him so much ^-^

ALSO.



Are you Admiral Pit ?

Point was people were telling you the meaning of it and its true nature. And you come off saying they suck and bad. You acted like a child. And this is coming from me OF ALL PEOPLE. Then call me an idiot?

And I have no clue what living in NYC has to do with anything............

And yes I am Admiral Pit. I hate all and value nothing. I am on this account by request of Dark.Pch since he does not fight with people anymore. And I also quit Pit for a better character like peach. I been playing her alot lately and feel so alive and filled with joy. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. I just had Dark.Pch teach me Peach by him giving me all his word doc he had on Peach from his computer. I'm also gay and have no clue how to express it so I decided this too would be good to unleash my fem side by going Peach! <3

Maybe you would want to pluck my turnips someday? <3

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'm not gay.

 

[Kewkky]

Why is there so much hate in SWF? And then people wonder why backroomers don't post as much out here. Just going into the forums and watching people go at each others' throats over semantics and other such stupid things is enough to drive anyone away. Sigh.

 

[Dark.Pch]

So much for that :/

 

[Peachy-Desu]

>Telling a better player to stay free

looool sure.. 'better'

Also.. no I don't think you are doing a good job dark pch. If you were you'd have actual placings that mean something in nationals. Sure I have none either I don't care for this game anymore though lmao I do try to find some hope in it, but your overly long out and drawn out posts I just skip over and don't even read half the time ike the ones previous *I simply skimmed* make me lose faith in Peach ever doing well.

If you were doing any decent job I'd be admiring your work.. not thinking you are bad. XD

Why would I be jealous of a Peach who got 2 stocked by a zelda?

*inb4superlylongpostthati'llskimornotevenbotherreading* <- lol glitched for some reason

 

[infiniteV115]

You're all stupid. Everyone knows Peachy is MY girlfriend, not Poke's.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

You're all stupid. Everyone knows Peachy is MY girlfriend, not Poke's.

I love you all~ Can't we all share me in some hot orgy?

side note.. when did I become a girl, meh I'll take the title for you V any day~ <3

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

After reading this thread for so long every time Peach gets mentioned either good or bad this happens. Seriously?

 

[Seagull Joe]

Good/funny reads by peepz. Keep it up thread. Without the top 5 thread, this one sparks the best drama .

 

[Dark.Pch]

After reading this thread for so long every time Peach gets mentioned either good or bad this happens. Seriously?

The discussion here was fine. People asked questions I answered. I was corrected on one thing by C.J getting something mixed up and that was that. I go to bed, wake up to a few pages or garbage cause people feed the trolls with the discussion.

 

[swordgard]

After reading this thread for so long every time Peach gets mentioned either good or bad this happens. Seriously?

Name me a peach that places at nationals, then we'll talk.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Name me a peach that places at nationals, then we'll talk.

Armada .

 

[swordgard]

Armada .

Touche.

10chars

 

[infiniteV115]

That was really good XD

 

[Iota]

Why is every other convo about Peach?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Did I ever mention in this thread that Jigglypuff gets a guaranteed Rest if she shields grounded shuttle loop? If not, that's still totally a thing that happens.

Not gonna let this slide cause I think it's really cool

 

[-LzR-]

Can you prove this with framedata and with MK doing different things from GSL? Then I'll believe you.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Frame data I have no idea but I've tested in practice with a player mashing cancel and mashing attack, both whilst gliding down.

It only doesn't work if the MK is deep in your shield (not realistically gonna be a problem) or he curves the glide up at the end (which no one does and it puts him in special fall anyway).

 

[Supreme Dirt]

>Telling a better player to stay free

> Implying Dark Pch is a competent player


Also quite amused by people thinking Peachy is a girl.