Official BBR Tier List v7

[Iota]

Fried eggs.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Moves that are safer on shield tend to be strong STRONG hits. Puff Dair are weak hits.

Depends, does the last hit of jiggs' fair occur during the AC window? I'm seeing 30 frames of landing lag for jigglypuff's dair and it only does 2% damage, so to be honest it doesn't look good.

2% damage, ends on frame uhh 57 (landing frame+30 frames lag) lol. Not good.

Yeah I always get grabbed if I fail to cross-up or retreat for whatever reason, it never feels like I'm terribly behind frame-advantage wise once I'm finished though

 

[-LzR-]

1. Dash (OR DASH HOLDING DIAGONALLY DOWN)
2. Hold down/input press y
3. do steps 1 and 2 but press a while holding forward and press A
4. You are now using her fair on the ground with her dash momentum because instant fair no float
5. Cancel fair on shine
6. USE ANYTHING SHE HAS even taunt can be done ON shine.
7. Notice there is 0 frames of lag
8. try this now with uair
9. Cancel ON hitbox
10. Notice there is 1 frame of lag that can be cancelled with her jab
11. Proceed with bair, but cancel bair with bair across the stage 0 frames of lag
12. Notice this doesn;t work with dair until after the hitbox.

13. For the lolz, input that newly attained ground fair 100 times to go across the stage.

This has nothing to do with the float. The shine is just a cue for the autocancel that fair has. Do you even know what floatcanceling is in Melee?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Hagelslag is so weird. lol

 

[Meru.]

Ew, Dutchling food.

Ok blondie you're taking this way too far now

Hagelslag is so weird. lol

This is war.

(And I'm eating vlokken :3)

 

[Peachy-Desu]

This has nothing to do with the float. The shine is just a cue for the autocancel that fair has. Do you even know what floatcanceling is in Melee?

I said on shine instead of saying the specific frame. Since.. nobody got time for that.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Peachy float-cancelling is being able to get standard landing lag at ANY point during ANY of your aerials

it's not the same as auto-cancelling fair

 

[-LzR-]

Again, the shine is still there even if you float or not. It's not floatcanceling. It's just floating.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

lol, jigg's dair is -26 on shield at best unless she lands during the AC window and I don't know about it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I never land during the laggy part unless it's like a slope or tech error lol

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Peachy float-cancelling is being able to get standard landing lag at ANY point during ANY of your aerials

it's not the same as auto-cancelling fair

Does this seriously need a 'new' word. ._. What would you call this ;tactic' to me they are the same. They are cancelling their float albeit an auto cancel. It doesn;t matter. If you wanna call the **** peach goes lolz with cancels by all means go for it. To mean I'll call it what it looks like. It's better now than it is in melee.

Though the shine is not present with the other air moves, they just get cancelled with dashes lol.

=_= fine. From now one.. this new tactic shall be called. Peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's. I like the sound of it anyways.

 

[-LzR-]

That is not cancelling anything with the float. All you are doing is ending the float. It's the same like fastfalling isn't jump canceling just because it makes your jump shorter.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ok blondie you're taking this way too far now



This is war.

(And I'm eating vlokken :3)

I'm half dutch and I want to live in Holland some day, so I'll have to start learning what all of these silly words mean some day. >_>

(btw i'm just teasing hagelslag is really good)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

please just stop peachy XD

auto-cancelling fair is not better than float cancelling in Melee and the reason we use two different words is because they are blatantly different things and we want to avoid confusion

 

[Peachy-Desu]

please just stop peachy XD

auto-cancelling fair is not better than float cancelling in Melee and the reason we use two different words is because they are blatantly different things and we want to avoid confusion

You do realize that outside ko power I'd argue peach in her current form is better.. fluid wise. Mainly from what she can do with Peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's.

If she had her fthrow back, dsmash* back, and turnips back she'd probably be a ton better more so with peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's.

Again can be done with all her air attacks, fair just easier.

and yes.. I'm sticking to the new name. <3 Just for him. I mean it's gotta be called something right?

 

[Meru.]

lol, jigg's dair is -26 on shield at best unless she lands during the AC window and I don't know about it.

"How can you not like me. I'm curled even!"

xoxo - Toast

I'm half dutch and I want to live in Holland some day, so I'll have to start learning what all of these silly words mean some day. >_>

(btw i'm just teasing hagelslag is really good)

nvm I love you again, come here and let's eat Hagelslag together :3 Dutch is easy (but not very pretty :3)!

 

[-LzR-]

You do realize that outside ko power I'd argue peach in her current form is better.. fluid wise. Mainly from what she can do with Peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's.

If she had her fthrow back, dair back, and turnips back she'd probably be a ton better more so with peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's.

Again can be done with all her air attacks, fair just easier.

Isn't her dair much, much better in Brawl? In Melee it barely has any hitstun and is way too easy to SDI out of. Also it can be argued turnips are better in Brawl with the increased odds of getting good stuff and all the new tricks like glidetossing and instant tossing.

And of course it can be done with all of her air attacks, since they all have low landing lag or autocancels. The float just allows you to manipulate the timing easier, but you can do it all normally as well without commiting to a float.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Everything about Peach is better in brawl. In exchange, all of her kill moves were deleted.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Isn't her dair much, much better in Brawl? In Melee it barely has any hitstun and is way too easy to SDI out of. Also it can be argued turnips are better in Brawl with the increased odds of getting good stuff and all the new tricks like glidetossing and instant tossing.

And of course it can be done with all of her air attacks, since they all have low landing lag or autocancels. The float just allows you to manipulate the timing easier, but you can do it all normally as well without commiting to a float.

I fixed the dair.. even put a *~

Turnips are worse.. by far. They get destroyed by almost everything. Glide tossing in general is better for her, turnips no. I'd rather have a turnip which can hit shields, clank with moves while still creating pressure than it just being gone.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Brawl Peach and Melee Peach come from two different environments so they can't be directly compared. Doesn't matter if dair or turnips are better in Brawl, or down smash and fair are better in Melee, etc...

But if Peach could KO, Melee Peach would still be higher (relatively speaking) on the tier list than Brawl Peach.

And float cancelling is strictly better than auto-cancelling during a float; it's the same thing but you can do it during ANY part of the move. It's no competition.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

But Grim, I thought they weren't comparable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Melee Peach and Brawl Peach aren't.
Float cancelling and auto-cancelling during a float are.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Brawl Peach and Melee Peach come from two different environments so they can't be directly compared. Doesn't matter if dair or turnips are better in Brawl, or down smash and fair are better in Melee, etc...

But if Peach could KO, Melee Peach would still be higher (relatively speaking) on the tier list than Brawl Peach.

And float cancelling is strictly better than auto-cancelling during a float; it's the same thing but you can do it during ANY part of the move. It's no competition.

uair/bair are for once negligible due to when they can be ac'd try it with uair and bair and laugh as you do this across the stage with almost no set back for her 'non existant lack of movement'. Fair ok I'll give you that one it's a very long animation same with dair.

Uair/dair/bair/fair can also be cancelled BEFORE the hitbox for little - no set back. Uair and bair being on for 0/1 frame *fair being the only longerish animation* and dair after.

In that regards her bair and uair imho are stronger.. hell her fair can due to the bug increasing her speed allowing greater movement and pressure.

 

[-LzR-]

Turnips are damn amazing. The turnips itself may have been nerfed, but the options Peach has when she uses them have increased. They still clank with moves. Even I can punish people who use an aerial on my turnips, causing them additional hitlag and hitting them while they are vulnerable. And glidetossing is also a big deal, it helps with Peachs lack of mobility. And of course every downB is a potential item/stich which are game changers. In Melee a bomb is a rare sight. So rare you shouldn't even care.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

uair/bair are for once negligible due to when they can be ac'd try it with uair and bair and laugh as you do this across the stage with almost no set back for her 'non existant lack of movement'. Fair ok I'll give you that one it's a very long animation same with dair.

Uair/dair/bair/fair can also be cancelled BEFORE the hitbox for little - no set back. Uair and bair being on for 0/1 frame *fair being the only longerish animation* and dair after.

In that regards her bair and uair imho are stronger.. hell her fair can due to the bug increasing her speed allowing greater movement and pressure.

That's the moves themselves being better, not auto cancelling being better than float cancelling

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Turnips are damn amazing. The turnips itself may have been nerfed, but the options Peach has when she uses them have increased. They still clank with moves. Even I can punish people who use an aerial on my turnips, causing them additional hitlag and hitting them while they are vulnerable. And glidetossing is also a big deal, it helps with Peachs lack of mobility. And of course every downB is a potential item/stich which are game changers. In Melee a bomb is a rare sight. So rare you shouldn't even care.

They also disappear immediately from clanking, while in melee they bounced up. Again I'd rather have them create more pressure than having marth be like.. oh i'll fair this and it's gone. Dk bairing.. well to be fair almost the entire casts bairs/fairs.

Sheild pressure was much better when turnips got knocked up from touching them.

While I won't deny glide tossing is an amazing trait, I'd still rather have glide tossing + melee turnips. Hell stitch face was stronger in melee.. ._. bring them back sakurai i'll take the increased odds.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes I agree that turnips themselves are weaker, but the item game in Brawl is also much better. It doesn't really matter what kind of item it is, if you have access to them, it's an amazing advantage. And really, Marth fairing a turnips does give you time to hit him while he is in lag.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm a Peach main in Melee, so /bias

but I wouldn't give up Peach's dash-dance, dash attack, down smash and reliable combos for a Brawl Peach that can KO

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Item mechanics in brawl >>> melee in general, so much more fun and so many more cool options.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

That's the moves themselves being better, not auto cancelling being better than float cancelling

So moves that are better than original check, moves that get better in use due to peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's check.

Nope.. still not as good as float cancelling. Even though we could call it this, because you know they both incorporate her float.. I highly doubt the melee or our community cares if we call them the same thing. Hell i'd heard it called that WAY before so I just 'meta sheep'd' into saying it lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well no because if Brawl Peach had float-cancelling instead of "peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's", she'd be a better character.

Which makes it a better mechanic.

 

[-LzR-]

If Peach could floatcancel in Brawl, ground float doublehit nair would be one of the best moves in the game.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Well no because if Brawl Peach had float-cancelling instead of "peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's", she'd be a better character.

Which makes it a better mechanic.

:o huehue I love that you said that. <3

i just really don't see the issue that other people have called it already.

now if the bbr made it suddenly 'Peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's' I have no objections. GL Saying that on stream! :D I would play brawl again.. just to force the people on our streams to say it! XDDDDDDD

Having to pull another turnip instead of just apply more pressure because there's a flying turnip on screen just seems :<.

Though glide tossing is amazing to have.

You can auto cancel nair it has 2 frames of lag done right and can be 1 if you input a dash (meaning you can set up another nair side by side). The issue now lies with lack of overall hitstun and shieldstun.

Also with Peach goes bat**** crazy with ac's you don't have to leave the ground.. ever. Except for a few mu's like flaoc and IC. Just throw out a fair, they back off pull a turnip, i've done it a lot.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah. Nair does have an ac but it's too late to be of much use. It's actually safer to just land asap than ac it.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Yeah. Nair does have an ac but it's too late to be of much use. It's actually safer to just land asap than ac it.

Too late? It's hitbox onward, you will always land with 2 frames of lag. 1 If you input a dash which overrides the other frame. If you input a bair you now have 1 frame of lag going from hitting someone's shield with nair - bair their shield. This would legit shield break *tested in a brawl mod where shield stun exists* because she could bair their shield lagless. Till it breaks. The only reason she can get only one bair off is due to lack of shieldstun.

Give this to her in melee, watch as shield breaks once she touches it with a bair lol.

 

[-LzR-]

Nair is still Peachs least safe aerial. You cannot use it on shield like other aerials, it's always unsafe, but of course considering human error, it doesn't get punished all the time.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've got guaranteed shield breaks with Melee Peach (repeated FC nair).
It's really ****ing hard without buffering though.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Nair is still Peachs least safe aerial. You cannot use it on shield like other aerials, it's always unsafe, but of course considering human error, it doesn't get punished all the time.

I would say dair is *assuming it's grounded* hell landing with dair is also horrible although you can end lagless unlike nair.

If you ground nair - bair it's a gamble since you can position yourself to be pushed behind them *where you can't be grabbed* and you can start bairing. Nairing in front of them is always a bad option though if you aim to hit with her arms you can recover in time. Unless it's mk who sl's you.

hell you can dair - float drop nair on quite a few characters and land fine. Assuming you drop behind them and aiming for a poke which can happen to quite a number of characters.

Though I did shield break a D3 with shield pressure before.. Yes, I didn;t poke him.. nair broke his shield! Was amusing. Teaches d3 to be 'perfect' with his shield tilts huehue.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I've got guaranteed shield breaks with Melee Peach (repeated FC nair).
It's really ****ing hard without buffering though.

I thought you couldnt buffer in melee? >.> Since P:M fanboys cry over it all the time lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's what I mean.
It's really hard to get the guaranteed shield break in Melee because of the lack of buffering.

That might not have been a problem for you in that aforementioned Brawl mod with shield stun if buffering was present.

EDIT: Did I ever mention in this thread that Jigglypuff gets a guaranteed Rest if she shields grounded shuttle loop? If not, that's still totally a thing that happens.