Official BBR Tier List v7

[-LzR-]

Well obviously you don't. You are just saying bull**** that seems to work on you because you aren't optimally using your frameadvantage. Hitlag has nothing to do with ko power, what the hell? And how does airspeed or fallspeed have anything to do with shieldgrabbing fair? It's still safe on block. And obviously you don't use fair unless you land with it during the ac window. I thought it would be obvious to any Peach player.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

air speed is irrelevant in that scenario

hitlag has no bearing on KO %

what are you even talking about do you understand brawl

EDIT: and I'm pretty sure any half decent player buffers shield grabs that shouldn't be something you have to teach peeps LOL

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Well obviously you don't. You are just saying bull**** that seems to work on you because you aren't optimally using your frameadvantage. Hitlag has nothing to do with ko power, what the hell?

Wow you are dumb. That's all i have to say from this one sentence. I'm going to assume your scene knows nothing of DI or for her hitlag SDI. Does she ko at 130 when you play her? :D

 

[Peachy-Desu]

air speed is irrelevant in that scenario

hitlag has no bearing on KO %

what are you even talking about do you understand brawl

EDIT: and I'm pretty sure any half decent player buffers shield grabs that shouldn't be something you have to teach peeps LOL

Grim you believe jigglypuff is viable, and I forever will troll you due to your older statements.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wow you are dumb. That's all i have to say from this one sentence. I'm going to assume your scene knows nothing of DI or for her hitlag SDI.

Um DI and SDI are easier with MORE hitlag you fool

Puff is viable in my region *shrug* I don't really care worldwide I'm not at that level yet, I just stomp lies about her when they crop up

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Um DI and SDI are easier with MORE hitlag you fool

Puff is viable in my region *shrug* I don't really care worldwide I'm not at that level yet, I just stomp lies about her when they crop up

Yes, her hitlag is 'awful' aka meaning she has a TON of it on fair lmaoooo. Did you think I meant she had like none? XD Anyone with decent sdi can make Peach unable to ko till 180. This has been known for like what? 2/3 years now? Unless you are under the impression she still kos early.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

my bad misinterpreted

the difference it makes is negligible regardless so eh, if your scene can't DI without the help of hitlag they suck
SDI would have like... no effect apart from potentially ****ing up your DI, and nobody SDIs KO moves anyway?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

my bad misinterpreted

the difference it makes is negligible regardless so eh, if your scene can't DI without the help of hitlag they suck
SDI would have like... no effect apart from potentially ****ing up your DI, and nobody SDIs KO moves anyway?

From this it sounds like YOUR scene sucks.. if they don't even try to sdi a move like her fair. It's NOT a negligible difference... look at 08 peach koing at 130/140. Look at now if you can even find vids of her being played.. she doesn't ko till 180 (the norm) 200-230 on the heavies snake being a huuuuge contender ehre where he kos her at 100 from an utilt. That is not negligible when she herself dies at roughly 130/150 (the norm).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

08 Peach KO'ing early would be due to bad DI

I dunno man you're talking to a guy who SDIs every KO move near humanly perfectly on a regular basis (missing Rest) the difference it makes is definitely negligible

 

[Peachy-Desu]

08 Peach KO'ing early would be due to bad DI

I dunno man you're talking to a guy who SDIs every KO move near humanly perfectly on a regular basis (missing Rest) the difference it makes is definitely negligible

Yes.. that extra 40% up to 90% d3 reaching up until 250 maybe 260 soo 110% extra needed? Yup NO difference. Oh wait you main puff.. ofc it would make no difference your characters dies to like everything lol. I'm not even saying that negatively. Pick d3/snake even MK sdi the fair live way longer than you should.

 

[-LzR-]

How the hell will SDIng 2 pixels to the opposite direction make a difference? I kill with fair at 130% because I keep it fresh.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The fact that I die at a lower % on average doesn't change the amount of difference SDI makes, actually. That's called basic maths.

What -LzR- said, you're talking out of your *** if you think SDI is the cause of any massive (i.e. 40%) differences in KO %.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

How the hell will SDIng 2 pixels to the opposite direction make a difference? I kill with fair at 130% because I keep it fresh.

Your crew doesn't sdi the fair.. are we really going into Peach ko power which has been garbage for like ever and just universally understood?

You guys say I don't know my characters and don't even know the significance that her hitlag + sdi does to her ko power!?

If you trolled you did a great job... I fell for it. If not, I have no words that can explain how perplexed you make me saying Peach has ko power.

 

[-LzR-]

SDI can make you live like 5% longer, sure. That's not the reason Peach can't reliably kill. Please tell me exactly how the SDI thing works then? Peach fair doesn't have noticeably more hitlag than any other move in the game.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

SDI can make you live like 5% longer, sure. That's not the reason Peach can't reliably kill. Please tell me exactly how the SDI thing works then? Peach fair doesn't have noticeably more hitlag than any other move in the game.

hold up a few hours so I can get my smash encyclopedia friend to explain this in a way I can't. I assure you he will explain it in a muuuuuch better way than I ever could. Since I don't think my word alone will convince you. Least I know there are others who do know this. It's not just an extra 5% though lol as I stated above.

it's almost 7am here was bored hence why I am up, though thanks for the quite lolzy discussion. I will be back as soon as he is up. Rather he will post instead.

 

[-LzR-]

SDI allows you to teleport a couple pixels to a direction you want when you are in hitlag. Are you saying you can SDI half a stage from Peach fair or how exactly is Peach fair an exception when most moves in the game have similar hitlag?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

SDI allows you to teleport a couple pixels to a direction you want when you are in hitlag. Are you saying you can SDI half a stage from Peach fair or how exactly is Peach fair an exception when most moves in the game have similar hitlag?

her fair has a disgusting amount of hitlag, it also effects the direction of where you can move after being hit by it, by 'teleporting' as you put it plus aiming where you want to go, Peach can *star* ko with her fair. This is extremely problematic to anyone with a good momentum cancel and is heavy. It should never hit horizontally ever if done right. It's why d3 can go from a move that kills at 130/140 - 230/260% because he can stop his vertical momentum easily. Snake also can do this living roughly to 230%. This is NOT a negligible difference. Hell MK can live till 180+ because of this and his momentum cancels. It's not a simple 5% anyone being hit horizontal is not sdi'ing.

I'm explaining this probably horribly, but my friend should be up hopefully in 3-4 hours. XD

 

[-LzR-]

Umm, this is Brawl, not Melee. You should still fly in the original direction no matter how you SDI. It's your DI that does that, not SDI.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Umm, this is Brawl, not Melee. You should still fly in the original direction no matter how you SDI. It's your DI that does that, not SDI.

.... Hold on I might find a vid of myself koing a falco at a redic high % and fair star koing.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well yeah you can DI fair so that it star KOs this isn't news and has nothing to do with SDI

Oh and you never did explain how air speed affects Fair's safety on shield

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Well yeah you can DI fair so that it star KOs this isn't news and has nothing to do with SDI

Oh and you never did explain how air speed affects Fair's safety on shield

yet this doesn't change her ko power.. at all!? LOL yes peach now star kos at 130 please show me your ways.

her hitlag on shield provides a signifact pause *not really to the naked eye* it can be seen while trying to ground cancel her fair hitting a shield requires you to pause a brief moment else she will hit lag frames. Her air speed is horrible mixed with the slight puase on hitting a shield causes her to be buffer grabbed.

 

[-LzR-]

Yep that's called DI. You know, not flying downwards from fair. Everyone DIs fair and it still kills, stop spamming it so you might have a chance at that too.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

This has got to be a troll.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Peach's Fair does not kill middle weights at 130%, if you Di it properly a fresh Fair from the Center of FD does not kill Marth when he's hit at 145%, This is done with regular Di to the top corner + fast falling.

Peach shouldn't be killing middle weights and heavy weights before 150%, she does, your Di sucks.

If you're talking about light characters, I can see 130% possibly happening from the centre of the stage, but not on heavies/ middle weights. D3 and Snake can survive her Fair at 200% from the centre.

However, if you're closer to the blast lines, obviously it will kill earlier.

With Peach's Fair if you do ground float Fair -> AC it's 0 on block, but if you do it while still falling, you're able to buffer the grab and grab her as she lands.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Not saying Peach is good at KO'ing, but people get hit by KO moves by the ledge considerably more often than center stage

always thought it was kinda silly that we measure from there

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Fresh fair kills really really early, are you sure about that? Also center of FD is a terrible place to judge KO power for a few reasons:

1. No one kills well from the center of FD, because
2. FD is huge, and also
3. it isn't likely for Peach to land a kill move when someone has control of the stage anyway.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Fresh fair kills really really early, are you sure about that? Also center of FD is a terrible place to judge KO power for a few reasons:

1. No one kills well from the center of FD, because
2. FD is huge, and also
3. it isn't likely for Peach to land a kill move when someone has control of the stage anyway.

Assuming offstage, a few characters can get around this mainly the lower end middle weights and heavy weights excluding bowser though bowser miiiight I just have little experience against him.

Snake/DK/D3 can all live till 200+ when being hit with fair offstage. MK being around 160/180, personal experience far too many times with the bat around then he will star ko any longer.

Also.. finally someone who knows about the buffer grab >.< jesus.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Keep in mind that I wasn't arguing that buffered grab doesn't work

I just doubted that it works against ICs and you started to spew all this bull**** about the game's mechanics

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Keep in mind that I wasn't arguing that buffered grab doesn't work

I just doubted that it works against ICs and you started to spew all this bull**** about the game's mechanics

funny enough how I was right.

Also her float IS glitched. Input what i said earlier she will keep dash momentum on her ground float fair. It happens due to the game missing a check because the fair comes out literally instantly instead of the game switching to the float then fair.

have had IC grab her dair.. check her hurtboxes they are pretty much beside her hitboxes unlike what you would see on an invincible back air.

though it's true I will forever bring up that jigglypuff is unviable will never be viable EVER.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Marth still lives at 140% at the ledge of FD with a fresh Fair.

If you input a dash before a ground float cancel Fair, she keeps the momentum from the dash.

It's just like buffering a dash + aerial.. but with a float cancel.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Who cares if float is glitched? The problem is that you think SDI affects KO% by 40%-ish and that SDI affects knockback trajectory

Dair isn't fair, why does it matter that dair can be shield-grabbed?

I don't necessarily disagree about Puff being unviable lol

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Who cares if float is glitched? The problem is that you think SDI affects KO% by 40%-ish

Dair isn't fair, why does it matter that dair can be shield-grabbed?

I don't necessarily disagree about Puff being unviable lol

because both fair + dair can be grabbed in said MU. You doubted that fair could for w/e reason when it was an example of how bad said MU was... since they can even grab her dair. If a character can grab a spaced dair, how they wouldn't grab fair is beyond me.. but you were ignorant and even though I explain how her hitlag + air speed made fair unsafe you still remained ignortant.

Also to think another person had to confirm means you wouldn't have believed anything I said. DESPITE ME BEING RIGHT.

 

[-LzR-]

What the hell? You don't need to groundfloat fair to make it safe. It anything I think it might make it worse. How about you, you know, timing the fair instead? Like what Marths do all the ****ing time? This ain't Melee, there is no floatcanceling. And what aerials can kill midweights from the center of FD at 150%? I'm talking about safe moves, not something like the knee.

Edit: Oh and dair is not really that safe. It's funny how you fail to mention SDI with dair when somehow affects Fair so much? Dair is the move that is hurt by SDI.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

What the hell? You don't need to groundfloat fair to make it safe. It anything I think it might make it worse. How about you, you know, timing the fair instead? Like what Marths do all the ****ing time? This ain't Melee, there is no floatcanceling. And what aerials can kill midweights from the center of FD at 150%? I'm talking about safe moves, not something like the knee.

Edit: Oh and dair is not really that safe. It's funny how you fail to mention SDI with dair when somehow affects Fair so much? Dair is the move that is hurt by SDI.

1pokemastr explained earlier that yes she can be buffer grabbed only from the air, nice try though. <3

There IS float cancelling with peach in brawl.

 

[1PokeMastr]

SDi only affects the location you Di from.
[7:42:44 AM] Robert Jackson: So if you SDi up and away.
[7:42:53 AM] Robert Jackson: You'll move there before hitlag ends.
[7:43:30 AM] Robert Jackson: Then Di will happen when hitlag ends, and it will read the direction you last held during hitlag.
[7:44:06 AM] Robert Jackson: So if you hold up + away for Di.
[7:44:12 AM] Robert Jackson: And flat out SDi left.
[7:44:25 AM] Robert Jackson: You'll move left, then go Up + Away.


SDi affects your X+Y positioning.
[7:46:02 AM] Robert Jackson: Before launching you.
[7:46:18 AM] Robert Jackson: So..

If I'm hit here..

_______________[x]

And I SDi 5 frames to the left, I got here, then get launched.

__________[x]_____


Too lazy to retype here.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

because both fair + dair can be grabbed in said MU. You doubted that fair could for w/e reason when it was an example of how bad said MU was... since they can even grab her dair. If a character can grab a spaced dair, how they wouldn't grab fair is beyond me.. but you were ignorant and even though I explain how her hitlag + air speed made fair unsafe you still remained ignortant.

Also to think another person had to confirm means you wouldn't have believed anything I said. DESPITE ME BEING RIGHT.

Fair and dair are entirely different moves, there is no correlation between being able to grab one and the other.

And I actually just doubted that ICs could grab it, nothing more. I only argued with you about the things you are wrong about >_>

 

[Meru.]

If you're getting shieldgrabbed consistently, I'm pretty sure you must be doing something wrong. Her Fair has great range and the moment she autocancels it, she will stop extending her arm. Without trying to doubt you as a player, I can hardly believe your spacing and autocanceling are ideal if you keep getting shieldgrabbed.

I just can't really understand how someone can complain about Peach Fair on shield o_o

Marth still lives at 140% at the ledge of FD with a fresh Fair.

My *** still lives at 170% at the ledge of Smashville with a fresh Fair. -_-

Even Nair would kill him at 140.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

If you're getting shieldgrabbed consistently, I'm pretty sure you must be doing something wrong. Her Fair has great range and the moment she autocancels it, she will stop extending her arm. Without trying to doubt you as a player, I can hardly believe your spacing and autocanceling are ideal if you keep getting shieldgrabbed.

I just can't really understand how someone can complain about Peach Fair on shield o_o



My *** still lives at 170% at the ledge of Smashville with a fresh Fair. -_-

Even Nair would kill him at 140.

We were talking fair.. but yes nair would ko earlier.
It's been confirmed.. buffer the grab, grab peach as she lands. =_= Do it on the ground no.. and for some reason someone doesn't know about peachs 'float cancel' despite it existing in brawl lol. You can float cancel every air move she has except dair unless you wait out the entire animation.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I don't know if "Yaaay" is serious on his last part, but what Peachy is trying to explain.

Ground Float Fair AC = Safe.
Trying to land with Fair =/= Safe.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I don't know if "Yaaay" is serious on his last part, but what Peachy is trying to explain.

Ground Float Fair AC = Safe.
Trying to land with Fair =/= Safe.

I've stated this.. so many times.. SO MANY TIMES. >.<