Official BBR Tier List v7

[infiniteV115]

PS2 has a regular ledge O.o (PS1 has the one with the lip)

Unless you were mocking the LGL, but that isn't really banning the ledge.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The ledge in Brawl is generally pretty broken imo. I wasn't talking about PS2.

 

[Luco]

Funny how a round batman can ruin others characters who have only one or two good stages to CP. (like Ness and Lucas on Brinstar)

That's the exact reason why I want Brinstar unbanned.

I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon.

Except maybe in my region because we have like no top MKs here yayayayayay.

Cha cha cha cha!

 

[SoulPech]

The ledge is broken. Let's ban it!

Um...I'm ok with this..

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

so uh, when is the next update? these people are running out of things to talk about

 

[C.J.]

I hate every single one of you and you should all be permabanned.


Just thought that since we're making arguments about our personal interpretation and definition of subjective things and stating them as fact that I'd play along.

 

[infiniteV115]

I hate every single one of you and you should all be permabanned.


Just thought that since we're making arguments about our personal interpretation and definition of subjective things and stating them as fact that I'd play along.

.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I think I'm going to start making Pokemon stadium 2 legal. I think it's a pretty balanced stage.

I already have distant planet legal..

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Hanenbow should be legal more often imho

 

[SoulPech]

Mushroomy Kingdom should be legal. It prevents time outs like 90% of the time :3

 

[Shaya]

Distant Planet has always been a better stage than Japes.

PS2 is "if you learn how to play on this stage, it's almost an entirely new game which has all these amazing things you can do".

Like
> omg I can't get to the centre of the stage
(Try walking, you'll actually move right through those easy peasy while walking, but running/dashing has major resistance)

> omg wind
pretty much the only argument that I'll ever consider for why the stage should be banned. Fox says hi.

> everything else
camping? seriously? You're going to give me a stage which gives me 50,000 new options due to all the various mechanics that are added into it and you're going to camp me? Good ****ing luck.

I'm out.

 

[bubbaking]

So that means you're pro-MK ban, Kid.

I've actually seen very little wrong with Aero Port ever since I read that post (compared to you guys' crazy ideas). You have no excuse for being hit by the road or the cars, especially the cars. Play better.

 

[Espy Rose]

If there was a way to remove hazards like in PSA, then I'd love Port Town.
Hell, I love it even WITH hazards. It's such a good stage.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

I thought Port Aero was removed because it promotes huge camping from Pit/R.O.B and MK can shark for days. That being said with it not banned we now have a legit counter pick for ZSS/Oli and Ivy. No ledges to grab.

 

[DeLux]

But it has a hitbox

 

[Tesh]

Hate to bring up MK as usual, but all the nonsense reasons bubba uses are just as valid/invalid for banning MK/Olimar/ICs. Redundant, silly, boring nonsense that would wreck john numbers in friendlies?

Ivysaur is really just far too easy to gimp with a ledge anyway. He just doesn't have remotely enough aerial mobility to make it over a ledge most of the time and isnt viable

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

But it has a hitbox

Your mom had a hitbox last night

http://instantostrich.com/

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Hate to bring up MK as usual, but all the nonsense reasons bubba uses are just as valid/invalid for banning MK/Olimar/ICs. Redundant, silly, boring nonsense that would wreck john numbers in friendlies?

Ivysaur is really just far too easy to gimp with a ledge anyway. He just doesn't have remotely enough aerial mobility to make it over a ledge most of the time and isnt viable

but ALL those pkmn trainer mains! I mean.. Ivy is such a threat she needs to be cp'd!

 

[bubbaking]

Unrelated but pertaining to an argument loooong ago:
Yo, people really need to stop citing lucky things as reasons to counter an argument when the other person continually tries his luck. I remember at some point earlier in this thread it was said that some close match (I think it was Seibrik's DDD vs some Diddy) wasn't really that close and that the DDD didn't really 'win' because it was a lucky Gordo. Well here's another similar instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdXEu8f7JR0#t=5m50s
The dude threw so many Waddles (that connected or bounced off 'naners, mind you), that it was only a MATTER OF TIME before a Gordo came out. Blame yourself for continually spinning the wheel of chance before you blame your 'bad luck'.

 

[Life]

Did I fall through a portal in my sleep into a world where people aren't completely idiotic about stages? And how do I get back?

No, scratch that, I should probably stay.

 

[John12346]

Wait what about me...?

I don't get wrecked by PS2 or any stage in friendlies... >__>

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Perhaps, but I simply put weight on personal experiences with regional threats and the viewed experiences of top players. The first time Armada YL vs Hbox Puff happened in Melee, people were already realizing that YL must be a good CP for Jiggs despite the fact that it only happened once. It doesn't take multiple instances sometimes to realize how something can work. Besides, you can't possibly deny that Brinstar buffs Puff's viability beyond belief against most of the cast. I simply said she, as well as MK and others (like G&W), are to Brinstar as CG/infinite chars (NOT just DDD, people ) are to stages with walls.....blatant, prominent walls.

No I didn't think that Armada's one set against HBox's Puff when he had no MU experience was proof that the MU is good. It just so happened to stand the test of time. Here are some counter examples: M2K vs. OCEAN, Taj vs. Lucky, Ice vs. Hack, Sonic at MLG, etc...

Puff seems a lot better on Brinstar than she actually is because players who use ground-based characters really suck on Brinstar (and RC). The main thing I thought was funny is that you think Puff is good against MK on Brinstar.

I hate every single one of you and you should all be permabanned.

Just thought that since we're making arguments about our personal interpretation and definition of subjective things and stating them as fact that I'd play along.

There is a difference between ruleset debates and subjectivity. A lot of the terms are defined subjectively, yes ("banworthy" being the main offender), but the people in this thread arguing against PS2 are still missing some basic, objective, logical steps.

For every argument that people in this thread have made towards PS2 being banned, a counter-example is brought up ("In that case, why don't we ban x?"). They get dismissed every time though, that's called a double standard regardless of how liberal or conservative you are with stage legality.

Everyone who hasn't yet should READ MY THREAD. It summarizes years of ruleset debating 101 that a lot of people in here apparently missed.

 

[C.J.]

I was largely referring to SfP and Bubbaking, Grim.

"It's redundant" "It's annoying" "This stage has bad things" etc posts

 

[ぱみゅ]

Then you should've said so, if I could get offended, I would've felt like that with that post


That said, there is seriously nothing to talk about anymore?

 

[-LzR-]

I'm going to bring some flames to this topic with my proban "argument", but if we can ban 10 stages because they are simply dumb and boring, how come MK is still around when half the community thinks he is dumb? Double standards because he is a character and brings so much to the game?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

More than half the relevant community thinks those 10 stages are dumb?

 

[-LzR-]

No, it's probably less, which just makes my point more awesome.

 

[DeLux]

PS2 doesn't have a hitbox

 

[Loota]

PS2 would otherwise be fine but Sakurai's hidden kitten in the ice transformation's wooden shack is just too much.

Isn't PTAD's last stop before the finish line quite problematic? It only has one safe platform to stand on if the cars happen to come and I doubt that not too many characters can dodge the cars just by jumping over them, and even if they could, it puts them into an incredibly bad position. Realistically both won't be on the platform so one player is always at risk.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

God forbid a player be put at risk for being out-played.

 

[Luco]

That said, there is seriously nothing to talk about anymore?

ICs, ZSS, Lucario, DDD, Olimar, Peach, Sonic, DK, Sheilda and Sheik, Lucas and Ness, Yoshi, Luigi, bottom 4....

We've discussed a lot, actually. With new info, though, it may be possible to re-discuss this old stuff: Ness was the only mid tier at Apex who got top 32 (or top 25 for that matter), for instance and Ike/DK with their respective character heroes are placing really well again recently of late.

I may revamp that silly prototype tier list that I did a little while back. :o

 

[-LzR-]

God forbid a player be put at risk for being out-played.

That's way too big reward for just being able to stand on a platform for 3 seconds, but I think the lack of ledges is a big deal and is the biggest problem of that stage.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

That's way too big reward for just being able to stand on a platform for 3 seconds, but I think the lack of ledges is a big deal and is the biggest problem of that stage.

For the record, as stated earlier in this thread, you can avoid the cars in other ways (like standing on the side of the level, they can't hit you there )

 

[Loota]

At that stop the cars go from side to side so it's not possible (it's the part where the track curves up to the left and there's three platforms BF style).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That's way too big reward for just being able to stand on a platform for 3 seconds, but I think the lack of ledges is a big deal and is the biggest problem of that stage.

Ice Climbers invalidate that complaint.

 

[-LzR-]

But Grim, didn't you know characters can do whatever the **** they want and they take skill and stages should have absolutely 0% effect on the outcome of the match! That's uncompetitive!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Don't mind me, just passing by.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah, you random noob from Australia, what would you know.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

My >12,000 posts indicates that I'm one of the best Smash players in the world, and an authority on everything. I know a lot.

 

[bubbaking]

Wait what about me...?

I don't get wrecked by PS2 or any stage in friendlies... >__>

I don't remember anyone ever saying you get "wrecked" on any stage, John. All I simply said was that the ice phase and the ground phase were the source of some of my easiest CG shenanigans in the game, and in the case of the ground phase, kills.

And stop getting salty prematurely, man. You act like it would be the end of the world if you ever lost to anyone down at the club (which you have several times).

Btw, I still remember making you super-salty by beating you on your favorite CP.

Edit: Looking back, I just saw Tesh's post, so I think I see where the indignation is stemming from. Yeah, he's wrong.

Bubba, people being stupid and banning PS2 for absolutely NO REASON doesn't mean you are right.

No, but it means that my opinion is the popular one. Therefore, I win.

Don't you think universally banning MK would have been the "right" decision for the course of this game's metagame? More chars would become viable, more people would be allowed to have a shot at winning something, etc. Even if it did nothing to defend our game's 'integrity', it would promote balance and fairness and would allow us to remove some of the really stupid rules we have that further promote imbalance. Instead, MK's ban was lifted and most people agreed with the lift (if you go by his legality in most tournaments). Why? Because it was the popular choice.

I could care less how 'logical' your choice is, because in the end, it depends on how comfortable and popular the idea is. Camping isn't an 'illogical' thing, but most people dislike it as evidenced by the fact that features that encourage camping are generally a no-no in tournaments. Bottom line: if a stage goes against what makes everyone comfortable, TOs aren't going to have it legal. If you're not fine with that, then perhaps you should host your own tournament and bring in your own stagelist (like I did). See how many people come to your event. That's the beauty of TOs having the final say; you can always be the TO.

Edit: This post was supposed to be just a joke as hinted at by my first line, but then I thought about it and realized how true this really is.

People often list the lack of ledges as ban-worthy.

Going by apparently my own 'Bubba logic' (even though I never argued things in such a manner), that would mean that Frigate is ban-worthy because it doesn't have a right ledge for a major portion of time, and for a little bit of time, the stage doesn't even have ANY ledges (pre-flip; during the flip is obvious). Conversely, there are times when Aero Port actually does have ledges.