Official BBR Tier List v7

[Luco]

I love PS1 and PS2. I always felt like PS2 should be included in the stage-list from my early days as a player, etc blah blah blah. =3

 

[pidgezero_one]

PS1 for best stage (this is my kirby main talking)

infinite stone glitch on grass transformation + performing the windmill suicide ko AND SURVIVING

sign me up

PS2 sux tho the only good thing about it is the electrical stage ****ing up diddy's bananas

 

[bubbaking]

D3's wall infinite on PS2 isn't a problem at all, only bad players get infinited there.

You really don't know what you're talking about if you're gonna call John12346 a bad player, and I get him on that wall often whenever we play on that stage, in addition to the free execution-less CG > usmash on the ice and electric phases.

DDD and a few chars alone make that stage pretty garbage-y, kinda like how Brinstar and RC would be perfectly fine stages if MK, Jiggs, and a few others didn't exist.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

****ing hell guys watch out for Jigglypuff

broken tier on janky stages, right behind MK

 

[bubbaking]

Stages that ask for timeouts just buff bad chars needlessly. There's a reason I almost saw a good MK lose to a Jiggs on Brinstar. It's the same with timers. Your char would probably be #1 bottom of Bottom Tier if there wasn't a clock for you to run.

 

[Delta-cod]

Bubba, MM me on the Pokemon Stadiums please.

Bair doesn't work.
Seriously guys. He's charging sideB on the slope. Go to the other end of the level and throw an egg.

Egg beats the sideB all the time.
Your jab is also fast and clanks with it, and Yoshi's CQC is better.

Yoshi has no excuse to lose to Sonic's sideB.

What does this even mean.

Jab 1 is like, a 2 or 3 frame active hitbox with range that isn't considerably large. Needing to set up against the Side B, and then time the jab perfectly JUST TO CLANK is ridiculous.

Not to mention, Sonic's jab out of clank is just as fast as ours, and we can clank jabs, meaning if we do clank with it, you can just mash A for a situation reset.

lol @ eggs and Usmash being viable for this purpose.

 

[bubbaking]

Delta, it's clear that you'll run just like you would on ANY stage. The PS stages would simply help you to that end. I'd be a fool to accept that MM 'cause my body and soul would be timed out before my character was.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Stages that ask for timeouts just buff bad chars needlessly. There's a reason I almost saw a good MK lose to a Jiggs on Brinstar. It's the same with timers. Your char would probably be #1 bottom of Bottom Tier if there wasn't a clock for you to run.

You put, I think, too much weight on single instances. Such as you vs. John# showing that the infinite is viable, or Nairo *almost* losing a single game against dapuffster

Just general advice.

 

[Delta-cod]

But DDD is so broken on those stages! I'll get wall infinited for easy kills!

 

[bubbaking]

Because DDD's broken, those stages simply serve to make dumb matches dumber.

 

[Delta-cod]

DDD is bad and can't force people into situations to be infinited. Period.

 

[NickRiddle]

John#s isn't a great player... So it DOESN'T mean anything if he can't run from a slow character during wall parts.

 

[bubbaking]

He most certainly isn't a bad player, and he isn't the reason PS2 is a bad stage. I don't know why this convo suddenly started rotating around John. I only brought him up because of the mention that only bad players get infinited on that wall, which is a pretty inaccurate statement.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Based on bubba logic, can i say that castle siege should be banned because the third stage is redundant and too similar to FD, a stage that promotes camping and polarizes matchups against falco diddy and ICs?

 

[bubbaking]

The third phase of CS is a redundant okay form, though, not a redundant bad one like the Ground phase of PS2 is. That's a horribly incomparable argument.

 

[NickRiddle]

1/8 of a stage being similar to 1/8 of a stage is bad now.

 

[bubbaking]

Don't start putting words into my mouth now. It's bad for stages to recycle bad aspects, and that's clearly what I said. If a stage transformation does nothing but recycle (mostly) good, competitive aspects of the game, then by all means, it's fine and should be included.

Besides that I can't see anything else wrong with it though apporaching the left side could prove difficult due to having to land at a downward slope or use all your jumps to get close to the ledge.

Except that if you're gonna spend the whole match platform camping on the right side, then why the heck did you try to approach in the first place? You may as well camp it out on the right, which is what smart players do.

Approaching either side is difficult. One side actually presents the risk of getting infinited, while the other has way less room and a disadvantageous slope that's within attacking distance of a platform.

And the ground phase has 2 platforms right next to the wall as well. Why not take that route and approach from the left if you have to?

Because being above most chars puts one in a very disadvantageous position. Who wants to be above DDD uair/usmash/utilt or all of Falco's crap? Might as well camp it out. You've got 8 minutes. Run that clock!

At what point is "too many little things" enough? >_>

I hate PS2, the day it was collectively banned was the happiest day in Smash for me, maybe next to the day Japes was banned. I don't care how many essays people type on how competitively sound it is, it sucks to play on and everyone hates it except a few characters that CP it whenever it isn't banned. The obstacles are obnoxious, the camping is ridiculous, the silliness it brings to matches isn't fun or entertaining to watch. It just blows.

QFT.

And PS1 can go fly a kite too. Any stage that encourages players to stand at opposite sides of the stage taunting each other for over a minute at a time can seriously ****ing burn.

Hey, hey, hey, call me biased but there's nothing wrong with PS1!

Actually, there's plenty wrong with it. That's my Melee side speaking. Still, PS1 is definitely better than PS2. At least you don't have to look forwards to being screwed over or made to look like a fool every time the stage transforms.

BTW, what's the deal with Port Town? I know people really hate the cars, but there's plenty of warning and unless you do something dumb it's pretty hard for them to kill you. The cars hurt less in melee but they were also harder to avoid and I believe present for a longer period of time. There was also some complaining about one of the walls dealing damage to you at some point during the stage, but it's no better or worse than say... Halberd.

Lolz, someone made a long post about this on some other thread that I found interesting. I think he also noted something that not a lot of people know about. Cars NEVER go all the way to the sides. If you just camp the sides when they come, you'll never get hit by them. So the cars give one ample warning, you can always platform camp to avoid them, and even if you can't or don't want to, you can just stand by the side of the road and be fine.

The stage has a hitbox

Well that's what you get for not being on the main stage when ample warning was given. You know what happens when you do that on Halberd? You die. Sometimes, the stage just takes off too quickly for you to jump back, even if you left the ground already.

 

[-LzR-]

So I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me a reason why PS2 should be banned. A real reason, not "lol it's dumb because airstage". We don't ban things because they are dumb. If we did we'd have to ban half the cast.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Just because DDD can infinite it should be banned? He's so easy to avoid in those transformations... Even in Delfino, the transformation with stairs and a walk off I effectively avoid that slow *** penguin. That's probably the worst transformation for any character vs D3 too.

 

[bubbaking]

Actually, the flying phase is the ONLY phase that's fine with that stage, other than neutral obviously. Every other stage has ridiculously janky stuff that's just hurtful to competitive play.

Raptor, why are you citing DDD like he's the only character who can infinite you against walls? I just use him as an example because he's my main. What about Falco, Pika, Diddy, and all the other chars who have CGs and infinites?

 

[-LzR-]

Ice stage only makes you slide more and increase your chances to trip. BROKEN BAM BANNED

 

[bubbaking]

Well, with how much some people (*cough*Shaya*cough*) were *****ing about tripping, that would be reason enough right there. Can't have Marth's viability falling any lower or ZSS' viability rising any higher now can we?

Edit: And you forgot that every DDD CG ends in a usmash. Same goes for electric phase.

 

[-LzR-]

Wow that's so broooooken Dedede gets a follow up using his stage knowledge. Obviously stageknowledge is banned so the stage must be banned. Let's play Smashville.

 

[bubbaking]

I wouldn't mind if we just played on SV, FD, and BF. Didn't you know I'm Japanese?

You put, I think, too much weight on single instances. Such as you vs. John# showing that the infinite is viable, or Nairo *almost* losing a single game against dapuffster

Just general advice.

Perhaps, but I simply put weight on personal experiences with regional threats and the viewed experiences of top players. The first time Armada YL vs Hbox Puff happened in Melee, people were already realizing that YL must be a good CP for Jiggs despite the fact that it only happened once. It doesn't take multiple instances sometimes to realize how something can work. Besides, you can't possibly deny that Brinstar buffs Puff's viability beyond belief against most of the cast. I simply said she, as well as MK and others (like G&W), are to Brinstar as CG/infinite chars (NOT just DDD, people ) are to stages with walls.....blatant, prominent walls.

 

[NickRiddle]

Delfino has campy areas with walls too. Too much like PS1s bad parts. Ban it.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Still easy to avoid, Bubba. As long as you're not stupidly standing in front of a wall you should be fine. If worst comes to worst I'd rather take damage then get put next to a wall. Although, I do like to sometimes bait by standing next to a wall with characters who are obviously trying to infinite me, but that's just me trying to be flashy all the time lol

 

[Delta-cod]

Smashville has a campy moving platform. Ban plz

 

[bubbaking]

Where did you guys miss...?

If a stage transformation does nothing but recycle (mostly) good, competitive aspects of the game, then by all means, it's fine and should be included.

Perhaps Delfino should be banned. Between sharking, and walls, and walk-offs, and water, and MOVING BLASTZONES, this stage is kind of a nutshell already. The moving blastzones are especially ridiculous.

Also, why are we arguing about the a stage that was practically universally banned? It was banned because most TOs and/or people agree with me that PS2 is banworthy. Raptor, if PS2 is so fine, then why wasn't it legal at any of your Impacts that I attended?

 

[infiniteV115]

FD has a flat part that you can't travel through from above, just like BF's and SV's main stages.
Remove the main stage from BF and SV pls




(I haven't actually been following anyone's posts except for Pidge's and NickRiddle's. Sue me. )

Also PS2 is fine, you guys are scrubs.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Bubba, people being stupid and banning PS2 for absolutely NO REASON doesn't mean you are right.

BTW, what's the deal with Port Town? I know people really hate the cars, but there's plenty of warning and unless you do something dumb it's pretty hard for them to kill you. The cars hurt less in melee but they were also harder to avoid and I believe present for a longer period of time. There was also some complaining about one of the walls dealing damage to you at some point during the stage, but it's no better or worse than say... Halberd.

People often list the lack of ledges as ban-worthy.
Funny enough, this is a problem that multiple stagebans DOES cover, because it's not a character-boost CP like Norfair, but a nerf.
If say, you main Olimar, you just ban it and another one or two and there is no problem anymore. Or, don't ban it and pick another character with a good recovery like Wario or Pikachu.
BAM, added a lot of in-game and out-game depth simply for adding more stages and stagebans.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

?? I didn't realize lack of ledges was bannable, I thought random elements, excessive hazards and/or scrolling, etc. were bannable. Like when I look at the list of banned stages, I don't see a single stage that even vaguely resembles aero drive.

 

[infiniteV115]

People banned PS2 pretty much because
-Dude you slide on the ice? What the **** is this ****
-Dude the wind makes you fall slower? Wtf is this **** this is ****ing stupid lmao
-WTF IS THIS **** I CAN'T GET TO THE MIDDLE OF THE STAGE THIS IS SO DUMB

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

People banned PS2 pretty much because
-Dude you slide on the ice? What the **** is this ****
-Dude the wind makes you fall slower? Wtf is this **** this is ****ing stupid lmao
-WTF IS THIS **** I CAN'T GET TO THE MIDDLE OF THE STAGE THIS IS SO DUMB

And thank god for that

 

[Lukingordex]

I would like to see Brinstar allowed again.

 

[infiniteV115]

Brinstar in and of itself is fine but the MK-legal metagame has pretty much overtaken the MK-banned metagame, and Brinstar can't really be legal alongside MK unless you throw in multiple stage bans or make a rule saying MK can't CP it or something

 

[ぱみゅ]

With MK around ,that's going to be hard.

Nice avi btw.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Where did you guys miss...?



Perhaps Delfino should be banned. Between sharking, and walls, and walk-offs, and water, and MOVING BLASTZONES, this stage is kind of a nutshell already. The moving blastzones are especially ridiculous.

Also, why are we arguing about the a stage that was practically universally banned? It was banned because most TOs and/or people agree with me that PS2 is banworthy. Raptor, if PS2 is so fine, then why wasn't it legal at any of your Impacts that I attended?

Because I was arguing infinites on a wall isn't a big deal at all and are easily avoidable, not that PS2 is fine. PS2 is booty for other reasons. Also, PS2 was never in any of the rule sets I put up to vote for, so it would be impossible for it to be in the series xD

 

[Lukingordex]

With MK around ,that's going to be hard.

That's why I actually agree with brinstar being banned.

Funny how a round batman can ruin others characters who have only one or two good stages to CP. (like Ness and Lucas on Brinstar)

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ps2 isnt a broken stage no matter how much you hate the mechanics of it. We should only ban things that are broken. End of discussion

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ps2 isnt a broken stage no matter how much you hate the mechanics of it. We should only ban things that are broken. End of discussion

The ledge is broken. Let's ban it!