Official BBR Tier List v7

[Mekos]

See Yaay yer last statement is a player who is being "reactive". I am sorry that I cannot explain this over the internet. Being "proactive" is different.

And I never said anything about ONE thing or ONE move. U have to "think" ahead(analyze the situation, and choose your best move that will best force the opponent into certain options) and control the match.

No situation is exactly 100% the same although there are situations that are very similar. Yer business example is very flawed. For example, Walmart is going through a major problem right now that they have never been through. They have been caught doing bribes in Mexico and have to deal with that situation. Not every situation is already known by a player. Especially in team games.

I understand what yer saying. I just disagree. Just because u have done something alot doesn't mean u don't have to think about it. If u can get away with not thinking about it that is "auto piloting"(which is at the subconscious level). Now when it comes to the technical part of it that can be done at the subconscious level as well. I call that muscle memory.

Reacting - is subconscious
Being Proactive - Is thinking ahead

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Being proactive in situations you've seen thousands of times doesn't take a lot of cognative processing. A lot of what good players do in smash is subconscious.

I don't think anyone is saying no one innovates mid-match or that you aren't thinking at all, just that the game is pretty old and if you're very good at it, you know what affect your, for example, sh fair will have on the game in any given situation, as a very simple example.

It works the same way in being proactive, to be honest, because being proactive is more or less limiting options or in the case of 2v2, creating options for your team mate.

A lot of this (not all, duh) is done without a lot of mental effort because you've seen the situation a thousand times before. This creates room in your head (for lack of a better explanation) for higher-process things like in the Pikachu teams situation you described. The more you play, the more is already programmed. Let's say that situation happens a thousand times, eventually you're going to know it's just something you have to do, which will allow you to micromanage other things.

I hope I explained this well, because it didn't feel like it while I was typing it. :|

 

[Player-1]

lmfao EE .

 

[_Kadaj_]

Hella late and yes I named searched, sue me.

Tbh Mekos you could've posted your set vs a Marth in practice of whom you've played like say the 2 or so times you've played Neo (yes those sets do exist online)

But w/e lmao I for one only skimmed over the convo and while I do agree that Lucas definitely isn't a low tier character, the reasons for it (keep in mind I only skimmed over the convo) probably aren't heavily reflected in that set.

Hell a set like you vs Malcolm or DeltaCod would've given more worth

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

sew me.

 

[infiniteV115]

Wait
KageMurphy = EE, the commentator EE?
o.o

 

[z00ted]

Man, Game & Watch should not be anywhere near mid tier....
Lucario deserved a rise.
ZSS didn't need to move up.

Olimar seems way too high (if anything, Ice Climbers or Diddy should be second).
Fox dropping?
Wolf rising above... Fox?

Sheilda is ****ing stupid, take it off.
LOL LUIGI IS NOT THAT BAD, HOLY THEORY CRAFTING ****!
DK deserved his drop, cause he's huge and sucks.

Lucas is better than Sheik.
Ness is better than Ike.
Why did Yoshi move up, while Ness didn't.

 

[Mekos]

Kadaj get out of here. That post wasn't about making u look bad and we are waay past that. It was to prove a point about snaking. I'm pretty sure.(that was a long time ago)

@Paris - When u have mastered your teams tatics and it is done perfectly at the subconscious level that is called synergy. But that is your own technical skill. That is muscle memory as well.

When it comes to out smarting the OTHER team and forcing certain options for that specific situation. That is thinking. Dude read my last post. If u are auto-piloting then yer competition is not that great. Competition at the highest level in anything is a battle of the minds trying to outsmart the other mind.

 

[_Kadaj_]

I know which is why I didn't mention anything of the sort, I was only saying if you wanted people to further realize the potential of the character you could've posted more than just that set

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Lucario deserved a rise.
ZSS didn't need to move up.

1st statement is false
second statement is true

I mean, ZSS *****ES ALL HAIL MASTER RACE

 

[Mekos]

@Kadaj - U not reading! It wasn't about proving his tier position. It was about proving the importance of snaking. Yer obviously emotional cuz u said post a match of me vs Neo(which was many many months ago). That has no relevance to the discussion. And I can't find any of those matches. Message me them on facebook lol. I need to learn how to beat him. He is the only marth I'm super scared of _-_

@paris - read my post to u buddy

That's why I love my business example. When it comes to the top level(the executive team), they are in charge of strategy. They are definitely thinking about what they should do.
Now what can be done maybe subconsciously may be at the operational level. Like a worker at a factory doing the same exact thing everyday by his muscle memory.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

@Kadaj - U not reading! It wasn't about proving his tier position. It was about proving the importance of snaking.

@paris - read my post to u buddy

I read it. I don't think we're even having an argument about anything. This is basically all about the difference between low processes and high processes and what terminology we should use to describe them.

You're right. Nick's right. None of us are educated enough though on the subject to really say exactly what's happening in our brains, though, so it's probably an argument we shouldn't be having here.

Peach for low tier.

 

[Mekos]

Gotcha...I understand

 

[KageMurphy]

Lucas is mid tier in doubles, create a doubles tier list BBR tool bags!

Wait
KageMurphy = EE, the commentator EE?
o.o

Nice to meet you too (:

 

[Lukingordex]

Peach for low tier.

This will never happen.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

This will never happen.

You must be new here.

Edit: did salem quit btw?

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't think there was really much for him to quit. He's been to like 3 tournaments
And one of them had like 8 people. It was more like he temporarily quit Wifi.

Unless you're asking if he quit both online and offline, then idk.

 

[Cassio]

He mains pikachu now.

 

[Meru.]

You must be new here.

Peach will be 9th in v12.

She will be top tier in the new Smash game.

 

[Pierce7d]

This is where the flaw in your logic lies. You beating players is evidence that you are more skilled than those players, and that you are skillful at the MU. But the results of one Lucas player cannot speak for an entire MU, let alone an entire tier list placement.

If you are doing well, I'm going to assume, "Mekos is good" not "Lucas is good"

That being said, I do think Lucas is not low tier.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Funny that same logic is what ESAM does for Pikachu being 2nd best, even with MK, Marth and etc.

 

[NickRiddle]

I was going to multiquote Mekos and continue... Then he compared how the real world works to how games work. Can't stop laughing long enough to responds. Brb, dying for two weeks.

 

[Lukingordex]

She will be top tier in the new Smash game.

Nah...

Bowser Jr. will be top tier in the next smash game.

 

[Cassio]

Such statements are simply an argument for a more theory based tier list. To each their own, and though I have no basis for this I cant help but have this feint feeling that those who try to emphasize theory to back up certain characters do so to demphasize lacking results.

 

[Mekos]

I was going to multiquote Mekos and continue... Then he compared how the real world works to how games work. Can't stop laughing long enough to responds. Brb, dying for two weeks.

Well just to let u know nick to the riddle. I am very successful in life right now on many different levels. Emotional, physically, academically, spiritually, etc.

And the reason is because whenever I learn something beneficial I apply it to all areas in my life where applicable. U should try it. U are the silly one imo.

Someone like you would probably say that FPS and a game like smash has nothing in common. Right? Already gave u the example the reason I understand brawl doubles so well and do well in it is because I bring teamwork functions I've learned from different things in life like first person shooters.

@Cassio - I agree but that was my main point in the beginning. I was arguing that the MU chart was wrong for lucas. The data is flawed and the MU chart was part of what was used to create the tier list. I gave personal examples and some people debated that by calling me an outlier. I countered by saying Esam for a long long time was an outlier. And m2k in the beginning was probably an outlier with his mk.


And u guys see how people keep continuing the discussion after we try to end it haha

 

[GOofyGV]

We should discus and not flame...

 

[C.J.]

I am dumbfounded that this has been going on for 293 posts.

 

[z00ted]

Well just to let u know nick to the riddle. I am very successful in life right now on many different levels. Emotional, physically, academically, spiritually, etc.

And the reason is because whenever I learn something beneficial I apply it to all areas in my life where applicable. U should try it. U are the silly one imo.

Someone like you would probably say that FPS and a game like smash has nothing in common. Right? Already gave u the example the reason I understand brawl doubles so well and do well in it is because I bring teamwork functions I've learned from different things in life like first person shooters.

@Cassio - I agree but that was my main point in the beginning. I was arguing that the MU chart was wrong for lucas. The data is flawed and the MU chart was part of what was used to create the tier list. I gave personal examples and some people debated that by calling me an outlier. I countered by saying Esam for a long long time was an outlier. And m2k in the beginning was probably an outlier with his mk.


And u guys see how people keep continuing the discussion after we try to end it haha

SUBJECTIVE

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Illlmatic where should Lucario be, when i voted on my list i put him and ZSS as equals.

Also I'll post my full vote of what i said sometime soon.

 

[Mekos]

We are not flaming each other. We are just talking directly at each other

@illmatic - U think my first sentence is that because I didn't give details (like having a 3.79gpa while being class president and really involved in my university. Not bragging, please don't take it that way. Just giving a example. I stated in my last post what I found helps me be successful)...don't care to give all the details about my personal life on these forums.
Overall I guess. Still stand by it.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Well just to let u know nick to the riddle. I am very successful in life right now on many different levels. Emotional, physically, academically, spiritually, etc.

And the reason is because whenever I learn something beneficial I apply it to all areas in my life where applicable. U should try it. U are the silly one imo.

Someone like you would probably say that FPS and a game like smash has nothing in common. Right? Already gave u the example the reason I understand brawl doubles so well and do well in it is because I bring teamwork functions I've learned from different things in life like first person shooters.

@Cassio - I agree but that was my main point in the beginning. I was arguing that the MU chart was wrong for lucas. The data is flawed and the MU chart was part of what was used to create the tier list. I gave personal examples and some people debated that by calling me an outlier. I countered by saying Esam for a long long time was an outlier. And m2k in the beginning was probably an outlier with his mk.


And u guys see how people keep continuing the discussion after we try to end it haha

M2k mained for a time period. Forte was the first one to showcase 's power.

 

[Kink-Link5]

We should discus and not flame...

Okay, Olimar's placement causes an influx in his use, most of which is from poor players, causing his usage/winnings ratio to drop, and making him thus drop dramatically in the next tier list because of how fickle this system of making a tier list is.

Discuss these ramifications.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

At the same time Mekos I'm not a fan of the call out to Nick about his irl stuff applying.

I mean even if you didn't mean it, he could take it as you saying something bad about him personally.

Even then Nick is a pretty good baker catering etc. Served a lot of people on one instance and made Master Asia cookies.

Even if you didn't mean it, it does from my point of view as the applying your success outside to smash as a boast in a sense.

Sorry if I'm wrong or anything like that.

 

[Seagull Joe]

We are not flaming each other. We are just talking directly at each other

@illmatic - U think my first sentence is that because I didn't give details(like having a 3.79gpa while being class president and really involved in my university. Not bragging just giving a example. I stated in my last post what I found helps me be successful)...don't care to give all the details about my personal life on these forums.
Overall I guess. Still stand by it.

You should brag about that school stuff though. It is admirable.

 

[Mekos]

I am so lost. His post was so indirectly calling my post extremely stupid. I simply explained myself.
Me explaining myself I don't think is a shot at him. I was talking about myself not him. We obviously don't think and operate the same way by his post. I simply said "try it sometimes". (which was a minor fire back because of the way he made a mockery out of my posts)

I don't think either of us are getting emotionally hurt here and feel we are flaming each other.

And if u remember from my earlier post. I said I am the type of person that when I learn something great in life I share it with others.
Some people view it as bragging especially through the internet. But when most people talk to me in real life they understand where I'm coming from and understand my good intentions.

 

[stingers]

You should brag about that school stuff though. It is admirable.

no............

 

[z00ted]

Illlmatic where should Lucario be, when i voted on my list i put him and ZSS as equals.

Also I'll post my full vote of what i said sometime soon.

Here, I'll post my tier list.

TOP

S:

HIGH

A:
B:
C:

MID

D:
E:
F:

LOW

G:
H:

 

[Player-1]

Am I the only one that has to pull out Rosetta Stone for Mekos's post?

 

[Mekos]

That's a pretty good list Illmatic imo. I agree with most of that.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ness so good, apparently.