Official BBR Tier List v7

[bubbaking]

Ahhhhh, that makes sense. Thanks!

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Parasoul is my girl <3

 

[Sinister Slush]

Off topic, but I love Peacock.

 

[bubbaking]

Peacock, Cerebella, and Painwheel are my Skullgirl mains. Whenever I use Peacock, I always use Cerebella with Cerecopter assist. That thing just destroys! It's almost as good as Napalm Pillar. As for Painwheel, I usually just go solo Painwheel. However, I've recently made a full team with those three using one of the grounded George assists for Peacock (whichever one I feel like using at the moment), Cerecopter, and Buer Reaper-L for Pain. The team actually has really good synergy.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I use Valentine+Cerebella, I started adding Parasoul, but now I have a couple months without playing.
Mman I miss that game....

 

[bubbaking]

Oh god, I absolutely HATE fighting Valentine! John12346 picked up that char and she's really stupid. Everything is just so safe! We went and looked up her frame data and the things she's allowed to get away with are really, really ********. That and her combos last for days and make you wanna kill yourself.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I'm still mad scrub at SG.
I'm trying to get better with parasoul.
Parasoul x Valentine for me.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Val/Bella.

Everyones combos were stupid long in that game, at least pre-patch. nobody I know has gotten the new game yet though.

but yo, those hitstun needles? straight nonsense lol. but now that they got nerfed, im bout to start rocking those input lag needles and rock those resets.

Might have to rock squig if/when she drops too.

One of my favorite moments was when I was at an SG tournament, and I had to play a guy that was noticibly better than me to place in the money, I gimmicked a game off him, and then he blew me up the next game. and he blew me up on the last game too. to where I had like one hit of life left to his full health parasoul, and I did something laggy. He jumped in for the finishing blow and Bella dug her hands into the ground, ate the hit like a champ and punched a Diamond into the girls chest. It was epic.
I dropped the resulting combo that would have given me the match, but w/e, it was still funny as hell.

 

[bubbaking]

KID, Peacock's combos were mad short pre-patch unless you're some kind of demon or something. Her crappy air dash makes the timing of aerial strings extremely tight, and that problem is compounded by her lack of an air launcher, so she NEEDS the air dash to carry opponents back to the ground. In addition, her ground normals have a really annoying trait of pushing the opponent outside of her attack range (think Akuma's standing magic series in UMvC3), so she'd randomly drop combos. In the end, you have a char who can't extensively combo anyone unless she has them cornered against the wall, and why in the world would Peacock want to do that? You're much better off at the other side of the screen, trying to create a bullet hell for your opponent. This is further evidenced by the changes Mike Z gave her in the patch (bullets do more chip damage, she can spam Georges better, etc).

John and I also looked up the frame data for Peacock's moves at the same time that we looked up Valentine's frame data. It's horrendous! Slowest grab, a lot of her moves are unsafe on block, ridiculous whiffed grab lag, and the lack of a reward out of either her ground or air grab (unless you use a level 3 during her ground grab), it's safe to say that Peacock is just incredibly terribad at CQC.

 

[Death Arcana]

*sigh not one mention of P4U the only other fighter im trying to pick up

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Is there a forum for sg?
I wanna learn basic combos and approaches with parasoul

 

[Juushichi]

gimmie dat painwheel

 

[bubbaking]

Is there a forum for sg?
I wanna learn basic combos and approaches with parasoul

I think your basic combo starters are based on Parasoul's strong high-low mixups (she's got two overheads). I believe your bread and butter combos are standard magic series (or whatever you call it in SG) into "Take the shot!" That's what jam always does to me. You definitely get it off of throws, and this game is sooooo grab-reset oriented it's not even funny.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Hm okay

I'm terribad at traditional fighters, so the switch is tough

 

[bubbaking]

I take it you completed the entire tutorial? That SG tutorial is the godliest tool ever for learning exactly what you need to know for 2D fighters. I mean, I'm fairly experienced in 2D fighters and even I did the whole thing. It was just so useful!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I never had any interest in traditional fighters. Even now my interest is only moderate, but man those games are just too much work LOL

 

[Grim Tuesday]

They just feel so rigid compared to Smash...

Then again, Smash is the only video game I play.

 

[bubbaking]

You think they take too much work, SFP, but once you get your timing and combos down, everything's pretty consistent in every situation, unlike Smash. You can practice combos in training mode by yourself and know that it will play out in a match exactly as you practiced, unlike in Smash where you need to worry about DI and KB growth and all that jazz.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I guess, but it's entirely muscle memory, which doesn't impress me and isn't something I enjoy. In Smash, KB and DI are factors but are mostly on-reaction kind of factors. IDK.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

DI should be a fighting game standard. It adds so much depth to combos as long as it is implemented properly.

 

[-LzR-]

The only traditional fighter I really like it Tatsunoko vs Capcom. I love baroque and mega crash as mechanics. You really have to think even in middle of a combo because your opponent could mega crash out of the combo at any given moment, so if you use your baroque at the wrong time, their megacrash will waste it, but if you can read the megacrash, you can input a hyper because hypers will beat out megacrashes and the opponent just wasted 2 meters and some of their life.

 

[bubbaking]

So a megacrash is a burst?

 

[-LzR-]

Yes. Uses 2 bars and 10% of your health to break a combo. I think it's a wonderful mechanic.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Has anyone else here played Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo competitively?

The way that game works is so clever.

 

[DMG]

DI should be a fighting game standard. It adds so much depth to combos as long as it is implemented properly.

That breaks from traditional fighters a bit and would be hard to balance unless it was limited to very specific situations. Say you could DI launchers or aerial knockdowns. That might be interesting, but say you could noticeably DI every hit in an aerial combo. People would basically DI away or maybe even "through" you and it would get really wonky.


What fighters do need are more strictly tailored limitations or offsets to certain combos. Doing less damage as the combo goes on is fine and they tend to get that right. However, how many times you can OTG someone or bounce them against a wall or xyz loop component tends to get thrown off. Or the limits in place get bypassed for the stupidest reasons, like it just so happens that XYZ move is considered a "strong" knockdown and those don't count towards the regular knockdown limit so you do the standard combo into a regular OTG. Then as they would normally "get out", you hit with the strong knockdown so they stay grounded and the game doesn't help them as you DHC or keep ****** them. Or the counter gets reset/doesn't matter because your OTG leads into a wall bounce. Or you use your assist to make up for it, because say after you OTG them for the second time they naturally recover faster than your followups and the combo would end there. To remedy that your assist comes out, they hit quickly after you OTG them and if it's a multi hit move your opponent gets stuck there as you recover and plan a combo that will work that frankly shouldn't have. Or god forbit the assist can scoop them up and place them in a helpless state where they can't recover airborne.

If people aren't going to get quicker wake up options/rolling/etc, then please don't let stuff slide on the combo front that clearly doesn't feel right.


(Mostly aimed at Marvel/similar)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I think your basic combo starters are based on Parasoul's strong high-low mixups (she's got two overheads). I believe your bread and butter combos are standard magic series (or whatever you call it in SG) into "Take the shot!" That's what jam always does to me. You definitely get it off of throws, and this game is sooooo grab-reset oriented it's not even funny.

Uhm, Parasoul is known for her damage output from her insanely long combos featuring silly stand heavy->back+forward light->miscellaneous moves loops and extremely long juggles based on good tear placement. Definitely not a magic series character, at least prepatch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frkAMKXW3bo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvgXb3uxwSA

One of the best things about her is how insane her damage is off of a switch in conjuction with Napalm pillar being one of the best assists in the game.

Parasoul is my girl <3

That's my boy.

 

[-LzR-]

(Mostly aimed at Marvel/similar)

I tried my hardest to get into Marvel, but I realized the game is literally a joke on competitive level. The game is absolutely ridiculous. As if Capcom gave up even trying halfway there.

 

[da K.I.D.]

DI would be great in 3d fighters. Theres actually a form of it in soul calibur. They should put it in tekken, because the juggles in that game are stupid.

But DI in 2d fighters wouldnt work well.

And DMG, the combo system in Marvel is actually great. Possibly the best one out there. Because of all the different move properties, it allows people to get incredibly inventive and creative with their combos to the point, where each person has a different combo depending on their team. Thats why its such a great spectator game. The only real problem is thatthe health is too low/damage too high and the combo scaling isnt harsh enough.

If they wanted to patch the game again, they could easily make it great. Nerf x factor damage (keep the speed tho) fix the risk/reward of TACs. Tweak missiles assist.

But the way combos get hyped up in current fighters now, i agree that there should be some form of megacrash in every fighting game forever

 

[Espy Rose]

I'd like it if X-Factor were removed completely, actually.
Though I DO admit it makes for some hilariously upsetting 1v3 comebacks.

Happy birthdays are the best though.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

the game is literally a joke on competitive level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvtf0kPmwtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdeWI05kxhg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1KJ-Ac6Vlk(shout-outs to 18:18)

Some people like jokes.

 

[-LzR-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvtf0kPmwtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdeWI05kxhg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1KJ-Ac6Vlk(shout-outs to 18:18)

Some people like jokes.

I don't even want to know what you are trying to imply here.

 

[DMG]

And DMG, the combo system in Marvel is actually great. Possibly the best one out there. Because of all the different move properties, it allows people to get incredibly inventive and creative with their combos to the point, where each person has a different combo depending on their team. Thats why its such a great spectator game. The only real problem is thatthe health is too low/damage too high and the combo scaling isnt harsh enough.

If they wanted to patch the game again, they could easily make it great. Nerf x factor damage (keep the speed tho) fix the risk/reward of TACs. Tweak missiles assist.

The different properties is fine. However, assists really screw with the balance. Take Wesker. You can do your standard combo into OTG, but the game after a certain point will let the person recover from your OTG quick enough that you normally wouldn't have a followup. Now all you have to do is fix that by having your assist come out, take up time and keep the opponent stuck in your grasp, then you go back into your combo. Or the assist doesn't take time BUT when the opponent gets hit they don't recover in the air normally. So you OTG, they get hit and don't recover, and you launch them before they touch the ground. Now since they got launched, you might have to do quicker hits or a shorter version of your BnB combo but you still get the damage in/possible DHC or another knock down.


Assists coming in and contributing is fine, but there are too many cases of easy or repetitive knockdowns/OTG's that should have stopped a bit earlier but don't because strong knockdown or helpless airborne state dictate that the combo SHALL go on lol. Like Wesker or Wolverine, fine you OTG me and I eat it. Next one I might get scooped but that's the end of the combo OH NO WAIT your assist is going to cover this gap yep the combo lives on and I'm probably dead. If not, my only option is the regular stand up no rolling or quick stand up better hope he doesn't have a strong reset or cross up. Or I end a combo with a Hyper, that just so happens to lead into an OTG, that because my assist can come in and fill up time then leads into more damage from a launch or combo, where you will probably die to the finish/DHC. Like it's ridiculous. What I'm cool with, are reset scenarios where you get punished hard for guessing wrong. Like you end a combo still airborne and you read their recover --> Air throw them down and the throw leads to OTG and another combo/death. I have no problem with that stuff, that's the interesting gameplay imo. Watching resets or non guaranteed crossups, not combos that last forever which are the same thing basically with an assist or key move added in that keeps it going when it probably should have ended at that cross road.

 

[-LzR-]

Assists in UmvC3 should have been made back to like what they were in TvC. Seriously, most of the things they changed were perfect in that game. Assists were not that powerful, took much longer to be available again so you actually had to be careful with them. They were still extremely important, but they didn't force you to stick Doom to your team to have a decent team as they weren't overpowered. And what the hell were they thinking when they remove Baroque and added Xfactor? And in a game like Marvel where combos are ridiculously strong and long and can basically OHKO any character if you are good, there needs to be a megacrash. Meter management is basically nonexistant in that games as there is barely any reason not to burn that meter for that combo ending hyper.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I don't even want to know what you are trying to imply here.

There are things that you don't like, but that doesn't make the game a joke. I was comparing it to common interests, but I can do the same thing for most games generally taken seriously.

 

[Raziek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhGm4ztXeMs

although i am slightly jealous that people have a tendency to spell his name right. is attila his tag? or real name?

His tag.

He's been using it since before he knew about the competitive scene, to my knowledge.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Combo extender assists.

Like I said, thats what makes the game great. Thats why they are called combo extender assists for a reason. If you build your team correctly and have some ingenuity, you can create something that is greater than the sum of its parts. Thats what keeps people coming back.

And one of the things that people frequently overlook is that those same combo extender assists are typically also lock down assists that those character need to keep the opponent in one place so that they can run mixups and open people up, at which point you cant use the assist to extend the combo later on if you used it to start it in the first place. So if you are good enough to not get hit by a solo character, the obnoxiously long combos wont happen to begin with. (youll probably still die, but like I said, damage/health/scaling needs tweaking)

Also, assists in marvel are generally acceptable to me in marvel aside from hidden missile. all the best assists are counterable. Haggars lariat whiffs a lot of crounching characters, sentinel drones go away when he gets hit, akumas tatsu wont let you follow up if you hit it too deep in a combo, jam session is stationary. HM is the only thing that tracks you anywhere on screen, holds you in place for that long, AND doesnt go away when he gets hit. Most of these doom teams would honestly fall apart if missiles disappeared when he got hit.

Also, baroque system would be broken in marvel.
baroque worked in tvc because damage was comparitively low in that game. but just think for a minute if Virgil could cancel rapid slash every time he had red life... right now he needs to burn X factor/a meter to do that. It would not be fun, trust me.

Megacrash would actually be fantastic in marvel, however, you would probably need to up the meter gain back to where it was in Vanilla Marvel to make that work correctly.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't think damage was that low in TvC. You could easily do more than 50% with most characters even without baroque. With Baroque you could potentially 100% the whole cast, but megacrash balanced it out. Marvel doesn't actually need Baroque I agree, but Megacrash should have been included. And the assist cooldown in Marvel is waaaaayy too low. And of course how 90% of the cast has a teleport. ****'s ********.

 

[DMG]

Except there's not much thought once the wheel turns. Going from Hyper to OTG to assist to launch/BnB, which might floor you again and lead into another OTG/assist saving the day once again, and either a ton of meter built up or death. Like, I don't want to see a combo where multiple times you OTG someone AND it leads successfully into a combo because even though the designers put in combo decay your assist was there or your move leads them into a helpless state/they can't recover so it bypasses the system effectively. Because then it's basically like what's the point of needing the assist? Why not just extend how far Wolverine can naturally keep doing it and make the assists more interesting or make combos in the air longer so that you aren't constantly doing this knockdown->OTG (with filler assist to help you) ->Launch combo that loops back into knockdown? It's really repetitive and they encourage you to combo that way and basically say **** it to the built in controls designed to stop infinites and shorten combos.


Launch > Knockdown > OTG (assist if you want or need) > Another Launch > Knockdown > OTG (assist comes out too) > ANOTHER Launch > Hyper/DHC/finish combo. Just because the assist comes out, doesn't make it more interesting than the Solo character just doing it on their own lol. Vanilla Sentinel combos all day!

 

[-LzR-]

Even then it only makes characters with good assists a necessity. Characters with crappy assists are totally useless unless they are toptier by themselves.

 

[Cassio]

Touching on the subject of Mikeneko and Marth, certain players from West Coast believe part of his success lies in the fact that the region isnt terribly experienced with that level of Marth play, which I also believe is possible. Keep in mind this opinion comes from a region with a long history of strong Marth players. The same thing tends to be said of other up and coming Falcos and Olimars, lol.