Official BBR Tier List v7

[~ Gheb ~]

^ this guy has figured it out

 

[DEHF]

China is the best.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I honestly think France is one of the better regions in the world. if Quik can beat almost all of japan even with bad matchups, Leon would probably beat them all. Leon only loses in America because of lolMK. America is meh atm.

 

[Tesh]

Good thing Japan doesn't have any metaknights or Leon would be screwed though.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

mhm I think Leon could beat Japanese MKs.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

mhm I think Leon could beat Japanese MKs.

Despite the fact that Japanese MKs can, and have beaten our MKs, therefore they are AT LEAST as good as ours, if not better?

 

[Emblem Lord]

That means they are good at the ditto.

Thats one match.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I honestly think France is one of the better regions in the world. if Quik can beat almost all of japan even with bad matchups, Leon would probably beat them all. Leon only loses in America because of lolMK. America is meh atm.

Is this what it feels like to be Europe?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Despite the fact that Japanese MKs can, and have beaten our MKs, therefore they are AT LEAST as good as ours, if not better?

They're probably worse tbh. Just look at videos.

Is this what it feels like to be Europe?

Stay 'merican. Hey, bible belt right? Having no arguments must be commonplace for you

 

[| Big D |]

Yo calm down guys.

Canada is where it's at.

Poutine4dayz

 

[Atomsk_92]

Someday we'll all love each other

 

[Tesh]

mhm I think Leon could beat Japanese MKs.

Despite the fact that Japanese MKs can, and have beaten our MKs, therefore they are AT LEAST as good as ours, if not better?

That means they are good at the ditto.

Thats one match.

I think its pretty dumb to say "thats just the ditto" when Japan came over and beat ESAM, Coney, Illmatic, ADHD, DEHF, Trela, NAKAT and Mikehaze AND Mr. R. But somehow in all of that you think they might be good at "just the ditto".

Europe's best players came over here and lost to ROB, Sonic and Lucas but you think maybe Japan won't know matchups?

 

[infiniteV115]

Japan also beat Larry (Falco) and Ally (who used Snake MK AND Wario against Otori and none of them worked)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think its pretty dumb to say "thats just the ditto" when Japan came over and beat ESAM, Coney, Illmatic, ADHD, DEHF, Trela, NAKAT and Mikehaze AND Mr. R. But somehow in all of that you think they might be good at "just the ditto".

Europe's best players came over here and lost to ROB, Sonic and Lucas but you think maybe Japan won't know matchups?

Sorry but have they beaten Leon? Nope. Leon is probably better than Mr R in terms of talent (shout outs to Mr R tho) and I honestly think that neo-Leon would beat Japan.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Australia is actually, objectively the best.
We suck at Smash, but we are okay with that - quality of living here is top-notch.

Anyway, how can you blame Leon's losses on USA Meta Knights, and then say that Japan's MKs would lose when all evidence points to them being better?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

leon is nothing special. neither is ramen. and apparently neither is gluttony (lost to ****ing lucas dawg). they are cool to watch but they still lost every time they traveled. EU is the worst brawl region. i mean **** they couldn't even win IMPULSE, a MK banned tourney. hate to say it but yall are worse than canada and mexico by a big margin.

japan>america>canada>mexico>europe

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

leon is nothing special. neither is ramen. and apparently neither is gluttony (lost to ****ing lucas dawg). they are cool to watch but they still lost every time they traveled. EU is the worst brawl region. i mean **** they couldn't even win IMPULSE, a MK banned tourney. hate to say it but yall are worse than canada and mexico by a big margin.

japan>america>canada>mexico>europe

 

[Tesh]

Japan also beat Larry (Falco) and Ally (who used Snake MK AND Wario against Otori and none of them worked)

DEHF=Larry.

@ Xonar thats a pretty big claim considering by any look at results he looks to be 4th best Marth in the world at best. There isn't anything that suggests he is that good considering when he was at Apex he lost to the people who lost to the people who then lost to the people you think he could beat. What does it say about him if he couldn't even get far enough in bracket to fight Otori/Rain/Kakera.

That would be like saying the guy who placed 33rd could beat the guy who placed first if only he ever made it...


Oh wait that is what you are saying.

As absurd as it sounds, I guess I am being a bit unfair there. Vinnie got 49th and went on to beat almost all of Japan 8 months later. He even lost to TX just like Leon did at Apex, so maybe I can believe in this Cinderella story.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Honestly that was Leon back then. Neo-Leon is better, obviously. He grew faster than other smashers overall from what I've seen from videos.

It's not a big claim, really. Just look at the players and use fair judgment.

Stop straw-manning my argument and then discrediting yourself lol. It looks wack-o.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Ignore Xonar.

 

[C.J.]

Tesh- EL wasn't around during Apex, AFAIK, so given just the statement that he was responding to, his point is valid. As for your list of players, Gnes lost to Esam and DEHF, Ramin lost to Ocean/Rich, ADHD lost to Razer/Nietono, Trela lost to Brood and.. I don't remember who.

Point is, some of the players you listed, while they did lose to Japan, didn't lose to Japanese MKs, which is what the conversation was about. As such those names aren't particularly relevant (and there may have been more- not including situations such as Otori may be (hypothetical, I don't know- I just know he was the common MK between Esam, Ally, and Coney) the MK that beat all the others so that would only speak to his ability to know MUs opposed to top Japanese players in general).
inb4defendingEL/Marthbias

Now, I will very readily admit that, on average, I believe top Japanese players know MUs better than top American players (Anti excluded), but the examples you listed were pretty intellectually dishonest.

Xonar, quit trolling the poor people =(
Although I do agree that, strictly raw talent, Leon is likely better than Ramin. He is sooo smart it's unfair.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ramin>Leon. Anyone who has played both of them can see this.

Leon plays aggro and forces you into situations where you have to guess a punish move or get punished. Ramin makes you play his game and he platform cancels a lot. Lol.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You guys disregarding my posts as trolling proves my point lol. Get arguments or get out.


also LOL@Seagull trying to outcredit me. I live in Europe. How often have you played Ramin and Leon?.. Oh. Right. Back to practice mode bro

 

[C.J.]

I'm not disregarding your posts lol. Some of what you said definitely holds weight. Ramin thinks that, raw skill, Leon is the best Marth. I can certainly understand that PoV given how smart he is.

That being said, you're still trolling a bit lol. Comparatively, Quik had an easy bracket @ SRT and lost 2 consecutive sets to the first 2 names he played- I wish he had any other bracket so there was better data to judge from. He may have done just as well, worse, or better- I don't know. He's still an incredible player, don't get me wrong, but compared to most other brackets his was easier. Making a claim such as France being "one of the strongest regions" as a result of that... kind of trolling tbh.
Saying American MKs are better because "look at vids"... kinda trolling- very very very few people- assuming any- have the capacity to objectively watch two videos, with 4 different players, and be able to draw an accurate conclusion from such limited data.

Again, a lot of what you said has truth to it (Leon does get better and better at a remarkable rate- it's kind of absurd), and I'm not discrediting those parts at all. You're still definitely trolling at parts though lol.

 

[Tesh]

Tesh- EL wasn't around during Apex, AFAIK, so given just the statement that he was responding to, his point is valid. As for your list of players, Gnes lost to Esam and DEHF, Ramin lost to Ocean/Rich, ADHD lost to Razer/Nietono, Trela lost to Brood and.. I don't remember who.

Point is, some of the players you listed, while they did lose to Japan, didn't lose to Japanese MKs, which is what the conversation was about. As such those names aren't particularly relevant (and there may have been more- not including situations such as Otori may be (hypothetical, I don't know- I just know he was the common MK between Esam, Ally, and Coney) the MK that beat all the others so that would only speak to his ability to know MUs opposed to top Japanese players in general).
inb4defendingEL/Marthbias

Now, I will very readily admit that, on average, I believe top Japanese players know MUs better than top American players (Anti excluded), but the examples you listed were pretty intellectually dishonest.

Xonar, quit trolling the poor people =(
Although I do agree that, strictly raw talent, Leon is likely better than Ramin. He is sooo smart it's unfair.

As I said, he lost to the people (gnes/trela) who lost to the people (ESAM/Brood) who lost to Otori (or Ally who then lost to Otori). While they didn't get knocked out by Japanese MKs, they still lost to a quality of player that isn't consistent with some hidden ability to defeat Otori, Kakera, Rain etc. Especially when its shown that the people that beat him still didn't even have a close set with Otori.

Honestly that was Leon back then. Neo-Leon is better, obviously. He grew faster than other smashers overall from what I've seen from videos.

It's not a big claim, really. Just look at the players and use fair judgment.

Stop straw-manning my argument and then discrediting yourself lol. It looks wack-o.

You guys disregarding my posts as trolling proves my point lol. Get arguments or get out.


also LOL@Seagull trying to outcredit me. I live in Europe. How often have you played Ramin and Leon?.. Oh. Right. Back to practice mode bro

iono what you are talking about, but I think the idea of Leon being an international threat is laughable and I think most people would agree. No marth has ever been and no marth ever will be.

 

[C.J.]

As I said, he lost to the people (gnes/trela) who lost to the people (ESAM/Brood) who lost to Otori (or Ally who then lost to Otori). While they didn't get knocked out by Japanese MKs, they still lost to a quality of player that isn't consistent with some hidden ability to defeat Otori, Kakera, Rain etc. Especially when its shown that the people that beat him still didn't even have a close set with Otori.

I can understand that view point. The way you phrased your post though led to a very different meaning being draw however. That's all I wanted to point out =)

iono what you are talking about, but I think the idea of Leon being an international threat is laughable and I think most people would agree. No marth has ever been and no marth ever will be.

This, I don't agree with though (I mean, Europe is dominated by Ramin and Leon- that's more than one country!).

MikeNeko definitely seems capable of being an international threat though. Was consistently taking games from M2K, has taken games, although not sets, from 9B and Nietono (Nietono on multiple occasions), has a winning or even record vs Brood, etc. The only players he consistently loses to now are Rain, Otori, and 9B AFAIK. Other than that he seems to trade with everyone and I've seen posts, from multiple people/sources, that people in Japan consider him potentially 4th best in the country (I'd like confirmation on that though as that does seem high).

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i thought hayase aka ganbarani was the new 4th best since he won that tourney with pika/mk.

 

[Mr-R]

As I said, he lost to the people (gnes/trela) who lost to the people (ESAM/Brood) who lost to Otori (or Ally who then lost to Otori). While they didn't get knocked out by Japanese MKs, they still lost to a quality of player that isn't consistent with some hidden ability to defeat Otori, Kakera, Rain etc. Especially when its shown that the people that beat him still didn't even have a close set with Otori.





iono what you are talking about, but I think the idea of Leon being an international threat is laughable and I think most people would agree. No marth has ever been and no marth ever will be.

Mikeneko getting 2nd and 3rd multiple times in japan , yeah defintely no national threat there. it's unfair for us cause we get a limited amount of chances to do well in the states, If I lived in the states for over a year, I would win at least one tourney.

quik got no seedding points at SRT, proceeds to get first seed and get 9th, then places 5th in a 20-25 man regional in germany

How about you guys send 2/3 player to europe for a change and see how that goes.
Also, Yes I did lose to sonic at apex, but I went snake which I shouldn't have done since my snake was booty at the time. turned out we had to play again since some people tied in our pool and I 2-0d him with marth after that.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I remember what happened when they sent players to Europe!

Spoiler

Ally got butt-devastated by Gluttony

 

[| Big D |]

But then he went back next year and beat everyone.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That's why we're talking about neo-Leon.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ally is canada tho

if yall are that confident why don't yall (all of eu smash) get a fund together and bring m2k, anti, larry, adhd, and vinnie out to yall's land and hold a big *** tourney

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I know education sucks in America, especially in Texas where it's all rednecks and stuff, but this is how continents work:

As you might notice, Canada is part of North America.
America.
MURRRICA

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

we weren't talking continents, we were talking smash regions.


wat do they teach you eu kids these days. jesus christ....

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Naw brah. Nice try though.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

^^^^

someone get this fool outta here. we got a severe case of salty leon fanboy here

 

[infiniteV115]

Ramin>Leon. Anyone who has played both of them can see this.

Idk man, Larry might disagree with you on this.

And lol my bad Tesh, didn't see that you typed DEHF.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

 

[Ayce God]

tesh really has it out for marth and I don't know why.

xonar, you still playing falco over in eu?

maharba, what does Leon have to be salty about?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

NA vs. EU rivalry is stupid.
Results clearly show that NA is better, and no amount of johning and theorycrafted results of hypothetical match-ups from EU fanboys will change that.

Obviously, I've got no regional bias to either region, so...