Official BBR Tier List v6

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm interested to hear why, as I've always seen him as a faster ganon.

He can make much more out of his long (compared to most of the cast) arms and legs by being quite fast. Retreating aerials are made rather safe that way (he has low cooldown on a lot of them, too). His fast...fastfall, great run speed, and low landing lag on U-Air allow him to create good juggle traps on opponents falling to the ground. Having nice range overall allows him to poke efficiently with tilts at the right times.

Against most characters, his jab is considered rather good, and with proper pressure, he can create a solid offensive presence. A nice pivot grab, a jab that allows him to combo into things, a command grab, and a dash attack for a good punish at a decent ways away. While his doesn't KO like Ganondorf's, it pops the opponent up so that you can follow up with things that will, and he has the speed to actually make use of many of his KO moves.

He is also a rather powerful character overall; B-Air, U-Air, F-Air, D-Air, and D-Smash are all reliable KO moves in their own right. D-Tilt, D-Throw and U-Throw all create situations to land all of these moves.

He's rather good at edgeguarding; U-Air ends quickly enough to be able to punish airdodges, the weak F-Air hitbox ruins precise recoveries and sets up for another attack, and Up-B is surprisingly effective against a lot of recovery moves.

He can potentially live for a long time. His fastfall is a great influence, Down-B is a good momentum cancel, and he's naturally somewhat heavy.

Also, while it's often downplayed, his great speed on the ground and in the air allows him to run away well on many stages. Down-B on platforms is almost as good as Falco's Phantasm; it takes slightly longer to recover, but you go a greater distance. It also outright beats Mach Tornado every time.

Speed is a big deal in this game; while there are a lot of dumb things to worry about from other characters, I'm convinced that smart use of his various positives could be used effectively at a high level. I feel his biggest issue stems from many of his offensive tactics being less viable against short characters, but he has enough tools to work around it, I think. He has a pretty good glide toss and can manage if he makes sure not to taken unnecessary risks against short characters.

 

[san.]

I don't think Falcon is better than Bowser, but maybe Mario.

I think Falcon's survivability is underrated. He's pretty high up there, which is a huge bonus.
I think Falcon isn't so good at killing, but pretty good for the characters around him.

I'm not sure what to think about his speed, because of his lack of aerial control to keep him covered. I don't think Falcon takes trades very well (and he'll see them more than he'd like) due to lack of escape options or good moves near the ground in front of him.

 

[Judo777]

He can make much more out of his long (compared to most of the cast) arms and legs by being quite fast. Retreating aerials are made rather safe that way (he has low cooldown on a lot of them, too). His fast...fastfall, great run speed, and low landing lag on U-Air allow him to create good juggle traps on opponents falling to the ground. Having nice range overall allows him to poke efficiently with tilts at the right times.

Against most characters, his jab is considered rather good, and with proper pressure, he can create a solid offensive presence. A nice pivot grab, a jab that allows him to combo into things, a command grab, and a dash attack for a good punish at a decent ways away. While his doesn't KO like Ganondorf's, it pops the opponent up so that you can follow up with things that will, and he has the speed to actually make use of many of his KO moves.

He is also a rather powerful character overall; B-Air, U-Air, F-Air, D-Air, and D-Smash are all reliable KO moves in their own right. D-Tilt, D-Throw and U-Throw all create situations to land all of these moves.

He's rather good at edgeguarding; U-Air ends quickly enough to be able to punish airdodges, the weak F-Air hitbox ruins precise recoveries and sets up for another attack, and Up-B is surprisingly effective against a lot of recovery moves.

He can potentially live for a long time. His fastfall is a great influence, Down-B is a good momentum cancel, and he's naturally somewhat heavy.

Also, while it's often downplayed, his great speed on the ground and in the air allows him to run away well on many stages. Down-B on platforms is almost as good as Falco's Phantasm; it takes slightly longer to recover, but you go a greater distance. It also outright beats Mach Tornado every time.

Speed is a big deal in this game; while there are a lot of dumb things to worry about from other characters, I'm convinced that smart use of his various positives could be used effectively at a high level. I feel his biggest issue stems from many of his offensive tactics being less viable against short characters, but he has enough tools to work around it, I think. He has a pretty good glide toss and can manage if he makes sure not to taken unnecessary risks against short characters.

Veyr interesting post. I always knew you had a thing for high mobility character.

A few quick comments. Falcons pivot grab is actually pretty bad IMO. Infact i think its the worst pivot grab in the game bar pikas. Its really slow. I usually joke that while most pivot grabs are mixups for people spotdodging dash grabs, Falcons pivot grab is a mixup for someone trying to spotdodge a NORMAL pivot grab lol.

Also while I think speed is certainly a big deal I think having good moves over speed is the better quality in this game. I like to compare Luigi and Jiggs in this case. I feel they are polar opposites. Luigi is a character with AMAZING moves and no mobility at all. Jiggs is a character with AMAZING mobility and garbage moves (worst moveset in the game IMO other than maybe sonic). Luigi is a significantly better character and I think that is a hefty reason why.

Granted Falcon actually has some good moves. He also has some bad moves. Idk what I think of Falcon but here are my 2 cents.

 

[Kantrip]

Wow, long, quality response

He can make much more out of his long (compared to most of the cast) arms and legs by being quite fast. Retreating aerials are made rather safe that way (he has low cooldown on a lot of them, too). His fast...fastfall, great run speed, and low landing lag on U-Air allow him to create good juggle traps on opponents falling to the ground. Having nice range overall allows him to poke efficiently with tilts at the right times.

Against most characters, his jab is considered rather good, and with proper pressure, he can create a solid offensive presence. A nice pivot grab, a jab that allows him to combo into things, a command grab, and a dash attack for a good punish at a decent ways away. While his doesn't KO like Ganondorf's, it pops the opponent up so that you can follow up with things that will, and he has the speed to actually make use of many of his KO moves.

He is also a rather powerful character overall; B-Air, U-Air, F-Air, D-Air, and D-Smash are all reliable KO moves in their own right. D-Tilt, D-Throw and U-Throw all create situations to land all of these moves.

He's rather good at edgeguarding; U-Air ends quickly enough to be able to punish airdodges, the weak F-Air hitbox ruins precise recoveries and sets up for another attack, and Up-B is surprisingly effective against a lot of recovery moves.

He can potentially live for a long time. His fastfall is a great influence, Down-B is a good momentum cancel, and he's naturally somewhat heavy.

Also, while it's often downplayed, his great speed on the ground and in the air allows him to run away well on many stages. Down-B on platforms is almost as good as Falco's Phantasm; it takes slightly longer to recover, but you go a greater distance. It also outright beats Mach Tornado every time.

Speed is a big deal in this game; while there are a lot of dumb things to worry about from other characters, I'm convinced that smart use of his various positives could be used effectively at a high level. I feel his biggest issue stems from many of his offensive tactics being less viable against short characters, but he has enough tools to work around it, I think. He has a pretty good glide toss and can manage if he makes sure not to taken unnecessary risks against short characters.

While Captain Falcon does have quite good range on his attacks due to his long limbs, he has no disjoint on these attacks and his body remains a hurtbox. A lot of his moves clash or are beaten by a variety of other characters. Also, his range is slightly overshadowed by his lack of projectiles for mid or long range combat. Being forced to approach in almost all situations sucks for any character, and Captain Falcon is no exception. I do agree that many people underestimate him, but I don't think he should see a rise on the tier list. Mario has a projectile game going for him, as well as excellent gimping capabilities, fast attack strings (such as U-tilt to ~30%), and sufficient kill options. Bowser has a superior command grab that can Bowsercide, can live longer, and is able to kill even earlier. Not to mention his good spacing game with fair/klaw mixups (without needing to touch the ground ). Fortress is also an excellent OoS tool or just general safety net with it's speed and versatility.

 

[Psychoace]

We have a command grab :D up b lol.

Priority is truly the main thing holding falcon back, he always gets the ****. As for his pivot grab...I ****ing love it. Combine it with his dash and run speed and you have a pretty awesome bait option in the making. It is kinda slow and we do have **** grab range, but I think it works for us.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I know I said Bowser has a superior command grab.

But yeah, it is mainly priority that screws falcon.

 

[Browny]

But yeah, it is mainly his inability to hit the enemy while they can hit him that screws falcon.

Sure is .

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't think Falcon is better than Bowser, but maybe Mario.

I think Falcon's survivability is underrated. He's pretty high up there, which is a huge bonus.
I think Falcon isn't so good at killing, but pretty good for the characters around him.

I'm not sure what to think about his speed, because of his lack of aerial control to keep him covered. I don't think Falcon takes trades very well (and he'll see them more than he'd like) due to lack of escape options or good moves near the ground in front of him.

I agree about his survivability and his KO potential. He doesn't have any spammable KO moves, but at least he has more than a couple of them, and he has many ways to force 50/50 situations, like with throws and edgeguard potential. Better than what a lot of low tier characters are forced to deal with.

Falcon can usually afford to take trades, since he lives to high percentages and deals nice damage with most of his moves. The trouble is that he has difficulty getting them in the first place, and is often outright beaten. I think it could be worked around in most matchups, though.

Veyr interesting post. I always knew you had a thing for high mobility character.

A few quick comments. Falcons pivot grab is actually pretty bad IMO. Infact i think its the worst pivot grab in the game bar pikas. Its really slow. I usually joke that while most pivot grabs are mixups for people spotdodging dash grabs, Falcons pivot grab is a mixup for someone trying to spotdodge a NORMAL pivot grab lol.

Also while I think speed is certainly a big deal I think having good moves over speed is the better quality in this game. I like to compare Luigi and Jiggs in this case. I feel they are polar opposites. Luigi is a character with AMAZING moves and no mobility at all. Jiggs is a character with AMAZING mobility and garbage moves (worst moveset in the game IMO other than maybe sonic). Luigi is a significantly better character and I think that is a hefty reason why.

Granted Falcon actually has some good moves. He also has some bad moves. Idk what I think of Falcon but here are my 2 cents.

The thing about Falcon's pivot grab is that it gets a nice slide; even if the grab itself is slow, it's still very safe to throw out, especially since between that, Dash Attack, DACUS (which prevents that long slide from a Hyphen Smash), and a shorthop aerial, it's easy for him to create some pressure when he runs in on most characters.

While I agree that Luigi is much better than Jigglypuff overall, I still feel that due to the fact that the game lends itself to campy gameplay, a character must have a certain amount of speed to be generally successful. Otherwise, say, Falco camps you, and it becomes practically impossible for you to come back. A character like Luigi shows his worth in Doubles (where it's pretty much impossible to run away) and in counterpicking (where the opponent's character isn't fast enough to run, or there isn't enough space to do so effectively). Outside of that, picking Luigi is just asking to lose in an ideal setting.

Wow, long, quality response



While Captain Falcon does have quite good range on his attacks due to his long limbs, he has no disjoint on these attacks and his body remains a hurtbox. A lot of his moves clash or are beaten by a variety of other characters. Also, his range is slightly overshadowed by his lack of projectiles for mid or long range combat. Being forced to approach in almost all situations sucks for any character, and Captain Falcon is no exception. I do agree that many people underestimate him, but I don't think he should see a rise on the tier list. Mario has a projectile game going for him, as well as excellent gimping capabilities, fast attack strings (such as U-tilt to ~30%), and sufficient kill options. Bowser has a superior command grab that can Bowsercide, can live longer, and is able to kill even earlier. Not to mention his good spacing game with fair/klaw mixups (without needing to touch the ground ). Fortress is also an excellent OoS tool or just general safety net with it's speed and versatility.

With his fastfall, though, he has that Dedede BS where fastfall airdodge becomes a viable tactic. The fastfall also helps him avoid characters looking to beat his aerials with their own and potentially punish them for it. While not something to do often, a Falcon Kick right before you land near an opponent can catch shieldgrabbers off guard and has rather good power on it.

Mario's projectile game isn't going to force anyone to approach; it's best used to limit movement options. U-Tilt strings don't work well due to SDI, though Mario does have a good combo and juggle game overall. While Mario has some rather nice Smashes, he can't really set up for a KO, and is reduced to just throwing out a Smash and hoping for the best, or edgeguarding, which is situational at best and unreliable at worst.

I don't think Bowser is better at staying alive. He's heavier, sure, but he has no good momentum cancel move, and struggles to get his feet back on the ground, given that he doesn't fall especially quickly and has no reliable aerial to help him protect himself while being edgeguarded. He is capable of KO'ing earlier, but it's definitely not as easy to land most of Bowser's KO moves, and Bowser struggles more than Falcon in having to approach. Bowser also doesn't seem to have the prerequisite of a decent speed to manage in the campiest matchups.

 

[phi1ny3]

I think C. falcon's utilt is underrated, that thing covers a good amount of options, can kill fairly well, and traps dodges pretty nicely, plus good range to boot.

 

[Orion*]

I think C. falcon's utilt is underrated, that thing covers a good amount of options, can kill fairly well, and traps dodges pretty nicely, plus good range to boot.

i ****ing love that move

/****** since 2008

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I prefer it in Melee, but, yeah, it's still a useful move.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

wth! D3 -1? Idk

 

[Jimmyfosho]

uh for you people that actually know SDI like mr. doom

someone explain to me how this SDI happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coJzp9G67c8#t=0m25s

did he just like DI into the ground and slide or what

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think C. falcon's utilt is underrated, that thing covers a good amount of options, can kill fairly well, and traps dodges pretty nicely, plus good range to boot.

^^^This

Also I think it might beat nado. I don't fully remember.

 

[Two-Ell]

Jimmy you can SDI down when you're in the air. Gluttony was probably SI'ing Down and to the right. When he hit the ground the horizontal momentum carried him to the right across the stage, while the vertical was canceled by the ground impact.

 

[IIUnrulyII]

Pretty decent tier list, I approve haha /(^ o^)/

 

[DMG]

uh for you people that actually know SDI like mr. doom

someone explain to me how this SDI happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coJzp9G67c8#t=0m25s

did he just like DI into the ground and slide or what

Jimmy you can SDI down when you're in the air. Gluttony was probably SI'ing Down and to the right. When he hit the ground the horizontal momentum carried him to the right across the stage, while the vertical was canceled by the ground impact.

He was hit with the horizontal sending part of Usmash. He SDI'd into the ground and DI'd a trajectory close to the ground.

 

[Psychoace]

^^^This

Also I think it might beat nado. I don't fully remember.

It does. f-tilt can also if it hits mk's body.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I wish Falcon still has his legit combos into Falcon Punch.

Heck Ganon had a super situational one into Warlock punch.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ganon can combo into warlock punch?

Also Falcon is terrible. That priority. So bayd. lol

 

[John12346]

In Melee, L Cancelled Dair > Warlock Punch is a true combo, although the opponent has to NOT be DIing for the entirety of the combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI2iTONpvs4

 

[Tesh]

lol, i thought you were talking about that banana semi combo.

 

[MechaWave]

Also Falcon is terrible. That priority. So bayd. lol

One flaw preventing him reaching higher. Lol I remember when he was the worst character in the game. xD

 

[KuroganeHammer]

lmao

I just checked the first tier list.

Zelda higher than Zamus.
Falcon worst in the game.

tbh, in pretty much every tier list, low/bottom tier is all wrong imo.

 

[stingers]

but....falcon is the worst in the game

 

[Fuujin]

but....falcon is the worst in the game

 

[stingers]

i know your salty we dont think zelda is, but facts are facts fujin

 

[Fuujin]

>>Implying I think Zelda is the worst character in the game

 

[stingers]

you sure post like it...

 

[Fuujin]

She's close enough, but not worse than Ganondorf.
Definitely not better than Falcon.

 

[T0MMY]

Alright, I take that back.

ROB is only a threat when you're in PA, getting trolled by Vinnie or Allied, OR THIS MOTHER****ER HAPPENS TO BE IN YOUR BRACKET.

I'd be scared to play you. But I still don't think ROB is good.

That was funny ([^^]

Yeah, people were not happy to hear about the last minute addition to me in their pools at Genesis. And then that caused a chain-reaction problem in next pools where it was me, Bizkit, and Atomsk they had to fight to get into bracket ([X X]

But, I sadly agree... R.O.B. is not that great of a character (he's not terrible though, just not amazing). But I'll make him look OP haha.

 

[Piratehunter]

list is bull**** because it needs a FOR SPAM GRAB ****ING ******* TIER: Falco, Pika, D3, and Climbers

this tier should be below low tier!

 

[Blissard]

list is bull**** because it needs a FOR SPAM GRAB ****ING ******* TIER: Falco, Pika, D3, and Climbers

this tier should be below low tier!

Tier List Version Piratehunter

God
S: (±0)

Top
A: (+1) (-1)
B: (+1) (-1) (±0)

High
C: (+2) (+1) (-2) (±0)

Middle
D: (+1) (+6) (+2)
E: (+2) (-4) (-3) (-3) (+2)
F: (+2) (-1) (-4) (±0) (±0) (+1) (-1)

Low
G: (±0) (±0) (±0) (+1) (-1)
Hyrule++: (+1) (-1) (±0): (±0)


For Spam Grab ****ing *******
I: (±0) (±0) (±0) (-1)

There you go <3
​

 

[Shaya]

You forgot to show minus-20odd placements for those characters
and probably best not to reply to the guy.

 

[DeLux]

New Epic Tier List

Whoa Whoa Whoa

Pump the Brakes


Why aren't ICs the top tier of the new tier?

 

[lilseph]

You forgot Oli in the new tier.

 

[Sinister Slush]

For Spam Grab ****ing *******
I: (±0) (±0) (±0) (-1)

You forgot Yoshi as well...

 

[Life]

Relevant.

(I don't get the argument behind spamming being a powerful tactic. If you're spamming, ie repeating the same tactic over and over, and your opponent can't find a way around it, your opponent is bad.)

 

[Judo777]

Relevant.

(I don't get the argument behind spamming being a powerful tactic. If you're spamming, ie repeating the same tactic over and over, and your opponent can't find a way around it, your opponent is bad.)

MK says Hi! but for the most part ur right. MK has a few spammabe tactics that totally work.

 

[Coney]

finally

i told you guys ddd was the worst in the game