Official BBR Tier List v6

[Doc King]

Pause.

No.

Peach's Match-up does not resemble one of a low-tier. Stop the nonsense. Mid-tier mid-results mid grades. DERP

Obv there's no correlation though.

We out.

Peach's results would be below average I mean if you're not counting -1's as bad matchups, then she has nothing good. Dedede will have something achieving with his two +2's and can use those strengths to get into some job. It's like a unique talent Dedede has that can make him famous.

You guys seem to ignore strengths and only talk about weaknesses. I mean someone can have like a +4 on and a -4 on everyone else and be more viable than someone with a -1 on everybody where you have to constantly outplay everybody and you can't use them to counter and they're not viable at even skill level against anyone. Also, for the +4 guy, people will be forced to use this charcter. You're also making sound like shouldn't be banned because he has a lot of +1 matchups.

 

[Espy Rose]

I wouldnt say Wario is the MOST mobile *cough*Sonic*cough* but he's no doubt top 3 (or 5 at the very worst).

Sonic?
On the ground? Yes.
In the air? Hell no.

 

[Steam]

Peach's results would be below average I mean if you're not counting -1's as bad matchups, then she has nothing good. Dedede will have something achieving with his two +2's and can use those strengths to get into some job. It's like a unique talent Dedede has that can make him famous.

You guys seem to ignore strengths and only talk about weaknesses. I mean someone can have like a +4 on and a -4 on everyone else and be more viable than someone with a -1 on everybody where you have to constantly outplay everybody and you can't use them to counter and they're not viable at even skill level against anyone. Also, for the +4 guy, people will be forced to use this charcter. You're also making sound like shouldn't be banned because he has a lot of +1 matchups.

the character with tons of -1s would be more viable since the other character can be solved by picking anyone else in the roster. with the -1 character you can't just solve them. and usually -1s are winnable to the point where the better player will usually win anyways... so yeah.

 

[Doc King]

the character with tons of -1s would be more viable since the other character can be solved by picking anyone else in the roster. with the -1 character you can't just solve them. and usually -1s are winnable to the point where the better player will usually win anyways... so yeah.

This makes no sense at all. With the character with the big matchups, you would be beasting on mk and can just pocket anyone else, making the game much more diverse. With the other character, you would be using you're pocket character pretty much the whole time. You can't always overcome bad matchups.

The +4 MK guy would be seen a lot against mk's.

 

[Seagull Joe]

The most mobile aerial characters are like , , , and .

is rather slow on the ground, but he makes up for it with his Dacus and fast aerial mobility.

 

[ChocoNaner]

yeah they probably wanted me to win the money instead of them. most people in the midwest actually hate money, and hate placing well too. its a strange place that you're clearly not familiar with. oh plus they like losing to girls that play mid-tiers, it really boosts their egos. oh and i guess logic isnt from the midwest but he ESPECIALLY hates money and winning.

but nah i didnt get that 2nd place legit at all. i'm a very bad player and everyone felt sorry for me.

this is a silly post.

It feels nice always being right, always :I

SEE, YOU MUST ALL BELIEVE IN CHOCO LOGIC ichu:

 

[Tesh]

aerial mobility> ground mobility by far

you can't keep people out of the air.

 

[DMG]

MK can

He's an Air Marshall

 

[Gifts]

mk in the air wut?

 

[Espy Rose]

aerial mobility> ground mobility by far

you can't keep people out of the air.

Unless your name is Jigglypuff or Meta Knight, you gotta land eventually.

 

[BSP]

And then jump right back up

 

[Tesh]

Unless your name is Jigglypuff or Meta Knight, you gotta land eventually.

landing lag is like 4 frames, jumping takes maybe 10 at most, so in the time it takes for MK do to just 1 uair, you can land (on most stages in alot of different places) and be back in the air.

Much less painful than being in the air when you prefer the ground. Consider how often Wario has to deal with his ****ty dash and walk speed compared to Sonic or Fox having to deal with their poor aerial mobility.

 

[Dark.Pch]

lucario's jumpsquat is 6 frames lol.

and to punish lucario's roll from a dair you're going to have to preemptively start floating towards him during/after Dair, if you can even make it there at all. I know there's no way she can punish it on reaction because of the distance she has to cover :I

but then again I'm probably being trolled.

if his squat jump is actually 6 frames, that's even worst.

I can tell right now you never had a Peach force you to roll. And I can cover it on reaction.

If you gonna roll behind me:

- Land > reverse instant dash attack.
- Move back and to another set of Dairs. You roll into it.
- Land > Reversal Jab > follwo up with w/e you want
- Move back a lil to a falling bair
- Move back a lil and fall to a dsmash.

If you gonna roll forward:

- Land > dash attack
- Move foward to a fair (yes I have enough time to clap you out the roll from this)
- Move foward a lil >Ftilt.

Ether way her best option to punish foward rolls are dash attack. You and the others just I am trolling cause I am telling you things that are hard to believe. Options you never knew were possible. You have people here thinking they can stop my shield pressure with uptilt. Without thinking that frame to drop a shield matter. or how much frame advantage I get when one drops the shield. Not knowing this and you think I am trolling? I am wrong?

But see, this is how I take advantage of the community. When people fail to ask questions or not listen/believe, it makes my job easier. Lucarios will try to uptilt me when I Dair to a falling nair and he will get hit. Lucario will Try to nair me out of shield and get hit. I get free easy hits cause someone decided to be brain dead and not do his homework. So when I say something and people don't leave it, it's even better. I can't advantage of it hard and my matches are easier then they should be.

Peach stomps low tier.

Then again, so does Lucas. >_>

Peach has the best match up ratios out of the low tiers

Also, if Lucario gets the first kill, Peach loses, GG HF.

I aggreed with you just fine until I read this.

vs. is really bad for . I think it's his worst matchup.


ZSS/D3/Lucario is better than Peach. If ur just gonna point out how she has less ****ed up matchups, then I can say for her good matchups that they don't matter because they are only +1 and are close to even, while Dedede has a solid advantage on Wario and Lucario.

You really don't know anything at all. Let me end you once and for all here. You say you get at wario and lucario. So one top tier character and won high tier. Peach gets at wario and barley loses to luario. Lucario is nothing serious.

Do you get at diddy, IC and olimar? cause Peach does.

You say if we not count bad match ups going -1, then she has nothing good. Now you just shooting off the mouth. This is a list of Peach good match ups. (even/+1)

Diddy
Wario
IC
Pika
Olimar
Pika

Look at this all all these top tiers Peach does not get pounded by.

And she has nothing good? She can not go in at tournament with good match ups against these characters which you will see alot? You seriously can NOT be this dense. I refuse to believe someone can be this dense.

 

[ChocoNaner]

Do you get at diddy, IC and olimar? cause Peach does.

You say if we not count bad match ups going -1, then she has nothing good. Now you just shooting off the mouth. This is a list of Peach good match ups. (even/+1)

Diddy
Wario
IC
Pika
Olimar
Pika

Look at this all all these top tiers Peach does not get pounded by.

And she has nothing good? She can not go in at tournament with good match ups against these characters which you will see alot? You seriously can NOT be this dense. I refuse to believe someone can be this dense.

MUST. RESIST. THE. RAGE.

MUST. RESIST. ichu:

 

[Doc King]

if his squat jump is actually 6 frames, that's even worst.

I can tell right now you never had a Peach force you to roll. And I can cover it on reaction.

If you gonna roll behind me:

- Land > reverse instant dash attack.
- Move back and to another set of Dairs. You roll into it.
- Land > Reversal Jab > follwo up with w/e you want
- Move back a lil to a falling bair
- Move back a lil and fall to a dsmash.

If you gonna roll forward:

- Land > dash attack
- Move foward to a fair (yes I have enough time to clap you out the roll from this)
- Move foward a lil >Ftilt.

Ether way her best option to punish foward rolls are dash attack. You and the others just I am trolling cause I am telling you things that are hard to believe. Options you never knew were possible. You have people here thinking they can stop my shield pressure with uptilt. Without thinking that frame to drop a shield matter. or how much frame advantage I get when one drops the shield. Not knowing this and you think I am trolling? I am wrong?

But see, this is how I take advantage of the community. When people fail to ask questions or not listen/believe, it makes my job easier. Lucarios will try to uptilt me when I Dair to a falling nair and he will get hit. Lucario will Try to nair me out of shield and get hit. I get free easy hits cause someone decided to be brain dead and not do his homework. So when I say something and people don't leave it, it's even better. I can't advantage of it hard and my matches are easier then they should be.



Peach has the best match up ratios out of the low tiers



I aggreed with you just fine until I read this.



You really don't know anything at all. Let me end you once and for all here. You say you get at wario and lucario. So one top tier character and won high tier. Peach gets at wario and barley loses to luario. Lucario is nothing serious.

Do you get at diddy, IC and olimar? cause Peach does.

You say if we not count bad match ups going -1, then she has nothing good. Now you just shooting off the mouth. This is a list of Peach good match ups. (even/+1)

Diddy
Wario
IC
Pika
Olimar
Pika

Look at this all all these top tiers Peach does not get pounded by.

And she has nothing good? She can not go in at tournament with good match ups against these characters which you will see alot? You seriously can NOT be this dense. I refuse to believe someone can be this dense.

Peach barley beats Wario. D3 is amazing on Wario and Lucario.

The funny thing that I find hypocritical is how you mention +1 Peach matchups as complete wins (As they are -1's for the opponent) and don't mention Peach's bad matchups as complete losses. You still have Snake as a -2.

LMFAO even counts as a win. You are extremely biased about Peach. She's not gonna be top of high tier, being above ZSS/D3/Lucario. She looks like she's at G&W's level (Low high tier).

Edit: Lucario is pretty important in high level play. Ever heard of Junebug? Also, Fox and Wolf should be above her. Wolf can make pretty good paper and Fox does pretty well against Lucario and D3 (High tiers) and is pretty good except the climbers and pika matchups, which you can just pocket against them.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Doc King, that works both ways. While Peach doesnt have any auto wins, she doesnt have any auto loses like D3 either. D3, with that logic, absolutely NEEDS a secondary cuz he has auto loses. Peach has a chance in all her MUs so she doesnt, therefor is more viable as a stand alone main. Just because Peach doesnt have auto wins doesnt mean she's bad, I mean, look at ZSS's entire MU spread.

 

[Doc King]

Doc King, that works both ways. While Peach doesnt have any auto wins, she doesnt have any auto loses like D3 either. D3, with that logic, absolutely NEEDS a secondary cuz he has auto loses. Peach has a chance in all her MUs so she doesnt, therefor is more viable as a stand alone main. Just because Peach doesnt have auto wins doesnt mean she's bad, I mean, look at ZSS's entire MU spread.

Only problem is you have to outplay the opponent. Peach still has Snake as a pretty poor matchup.

 

[Seagull Joe]

And she has nothing good? She can not go in at tournament with good match ups against these characters which you will see alot? You seriously can NOT be this dense.I refuse to believe someone can be this dense.

You've never argued with Jebus then.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Edit: Lucario is pretty important in high level play. Ever heard of Junebug? Also, Fox and Wolf should be above her. Wolf can make pretty good paper and Fox does pretty well against Lucario and D3 (High tiers) and is pretty good except the climbers and pika matchups, which you can just pocket against them.

imo Wolf and Fox are better than her, but I think the three of them should be in High tier, since they're pretty viable characters (generally).

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Peach is good, and she has good matchups, but matchups are not everything in this game. KO power, and ability to hold onto stocks is what can make a mid-tier do well. Look @ Ike for example. San & Ryo have been able to win tournaments with him. It probably takes 3-5 reads for Ike to get a KO after some initial damage, while Peach takes around 7-10 reads. That isn't exact, but I know for a fact that Ike takes less good reads to get a KO, while Peach takes more. He's also heavier so he weighs a lot more. Ike has won far more tournaments than Peach has, and I think it's due to those two factors.

She's a mid-tier character. Just get over it, and learn to deal with your character and embrace her weaknesses. I'm accepting the fact that Pit is just a mid-high tier character, and I'm doing so much better because I know I have to work really hard for the win.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ike relies mostly on people making mistakes. Technically his only reliable kill move is bair, but people walk into f-smashes all the time.

In my case, I trip into Ike's fsmashes, but I digress.

 

[infiniteV115]

I thought jab-->utilt was guaranteed on a few people.
And uair and dash attack seem like they'd be good at killing as well.

 

[False]

MUST. RESIST. THE. RAGE.

MUST. RESIST. ichu:

Diddy even with Peach? Lol

 

[san.]

I thought jab-->utilt was guaranteed on a few people.
And uair and dash attack seem like they'd be good at killing as well.

Jab to utilt works on a majority of the cast. It doesn't work on most heavyweights or midweights with a quick fall.


Ike's reliable kill moves are bair, fair, utilt, uair, and usmash. Ike has plenty of legitimate punishes. jab to ftilt works in isolated cases and requires specific DI from the opponent.

 

[san.]

I thought jab-->utilt was guaranteed on a few people.
And uair and dash attack seem like they'd be good at killing as well.

Jab to utilt works on a majority of the cast. It doesn't work on most heavyweights or midweights with a quick fall.


Ike's reliable kill moves are bair, fair, utilt, uair, and usmash. Ike has plenty of legitimate punishes. jab to ftilt works in isolated cases and requires specific DI from the opponent. A lot of his kill moves rely on the lack of options one has in the air, especially since he can easily force and punish air dodges.

Edit: my edit became another post(?)

 

[ChocoNaner]

Diddy even with Peach? Lol

I missed the "even" part somehow, phail lol :I

Thanks for pointing it out xI

derp _v_ ichu:

 

[Seagull Joe]

imo Wolf and Fox are better than her, but I think the three of them should be in High tier, since they're pretty viable characters (generally).

isn't high tier and I never will think he is. He isn't as good as the tier above him. Only thing I could see different is and moving down to D tier with , , and . , , and are all better then the characters I'd put in D tier.

Edit: my edit became another post(?)

Smashboards at it's best.

 

[SFA Smiley]

isn't high tier and I never will think he is. He isn't as good as the tier above him. Only thing I could see different is and moving down to D tier with , , and . , , and are all better then the characters I'd put in D tier.

Smashboards at it's best.

I agree and disagree. I've been saying for a while that Peach, GW, Fox, and Wolf are generally the same level of good and I feel that they all belong in the same tier but i also feel that GW having both Brinstar and RC as well as being almost CP-Proof (except for FD which he still can do work on because of his mobility) let him grace the bottom of high. But without those now I feel that he and those previously mentioned characters are all solid characters but still a step below the characters above them. Although I think if GW were to drop TL should still stay at the bottom of high.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach barley beats Wario. D3 is amazing on Wario and Lucario.

The funny thing that I find hypocritical is how you mention +1 Peach matchups as complete wins (As they are -1's for the opponent) and don't mention Peach's bad matchups as complete losses. You still have Snake as a -2.

To fix what is in red first.

You fail at paying attention. What the hell did I just say to you?

This is a list of Peach good match ups.(even/+1)​

Even is not a complete win for of. It goes ether way. +1 states my chances of winning this match are a lil better then my opponent. Ether way these are good match ups.

And why I not mention her bad match match up.? Why did YOU not mention DDD bad match ups? You gonna come at me with this but not check yourself? Let me answer both those questions for you. Cause we here talking about good match ups and how the characters would fair in tourny. So is I am a Hypocrite, you the biggiest one around right now.

Also, keep it shut about snake and peach, you no knowing on that, just like everything else that comes out your mouth.

LMFAO even counts as a win.

How stupid are you? And even match up does not count as a win for me. Or for the opponent. we gain no advantages or disadvantages. 50% chance I will win/lose. Same for the enemy. Thus an even fight and nothing is onesided.

Like......are you kidding me with this?

You are extremely biased about Peach. She's not gonna be top of high tier, being above ZSS/D3/Lucario. She looks like she's at G&W's level (Low high tier).

First off, you don't know a thing about me. I'm biased towards Peach? You have NO CLUE AT ALL I have hit these their list threads over the years with both her strengths and weakness. If people get info on Peach and knows what she can or cant do, it mostly came from me. if people say false stuff and they get corrected from the proper info, it came from me.

Im so bias that back then when praxis was beating lucarios and G&W left and right, I still said Peach still loses to them. Because in this community, if one loses to a character alot, people get hyped on that and create images and say they win. Im so bias, Peach has a higher win counter vs Top Pika players and while the rest thing Peach wins, I say it is an even match up. When I have every right to say Peach wins and have solid results for that.

Im so bias I refuse to give imput on Peach vs Wolf cause I don't know that match up fully and not use to play it.

And one thing you don't know. Im a Peach instructor for this side and AiB. And when I teach people I first have to brake down her flaws. And when I teach them match ups, I tell then everything a typical Peach gameplay would do and how they get **** for it. What they can not do and what the enemy can do to them to beat the hell out of them.

I spoke about Peach vs Marth here a while back, or on the Peach boards. Lots though that match up was even or Peach wins. I disagreed with that hard and broke down all that Marth could to do her and how he shuts down her good traits. Same time I mention What she can do to deal with marth. In the end, my mind not change while other thought otherwise. Peach does not beat marth or have an even match up.

So do me a favor, keep your mouth shut and don't speak so reckless about others when you know nothing about them. You make yourself look more stupid then you already are. And me not speaking about Peach weakness;

The community does it for me. All they do is ***** and cry about how peach can't kill, dies quick, etc. and people cause of this can't do match ups that she actually can do and wins. I been hearing this garbage since 2008. This is 2012. 4 years of people crying about peachs general flaws. So most of the time, I don't have to do it. You kids do it for me.

** When the hell I said she would be top of high tier? Really you just spitting stuff out.

Edit: Lucario is pretty important in high level play. Ever heard of Junebug? Also, Fox and Wolf should be above her. Wolf can make pretty good paper and Fox does pretty well against Lucario and D3 (High tiers) and is pretty good except the climbers and pika matchups, which you can just pocket against them.

......................What the hell does this has to do with what is going on here?

 

[Conviction]

Well Damn.

 

[NAKAT]

Damn well.

 

[Gifts]

Doc King.... the ultimate troll.

 

[zmx]

I thought jab-->utilt was guaranteed on a few people.
And uair and dash attack seem like they'd be good at killing as well.

Ike's DA will almost never kill unless their DI was awful. I think I've only ever killed with it once. To add to what San said from Jab cancels he can also bair iirc which works on some characters if they are put into a bad position. Likewise Jab cancelling them off stage could lead to spikes from dair or dtilt.

He also has ftilt but it's pretty bad. Very laggy for a tilt and hard to land but hey, if Ike players with godly reads can consistently land usmash at high level play, I don't see ftilt being completely out of the question.

Uair is an okay kill option in certain situations. It can even be used similar to fair and nair.

At extremely high percents (200+) lol downthrow also becomes a kill option.

 

[ChocoNaner]

Doc King.... the ultimate troll.

So good he doesn't even know he's trolling :I

JEBUS VS DOC KING DECEMBER 21, 2012 LET'S GET TO IT ichu:

 

[Steam]

lol dark.pch, show me you punishing lucario's roll on reaction after you dair his shield. there's no way you can react and go that far and bair in 26 frames. everything you listed either won't work or has to be done preemptively. Lucario's roll goes stupid far and is faster than his dash lmao. of course it's not safe, but you can't cover it while covering everything else he can do, and that's why it's not just ggs when peach gets up close. (if it was it would be peach's favor, dunno what you see giving lucario an advantage if you think he's optionless up close)

 

[Dark.Pch]

lol dark.pch, show me you punishing lucario's roll on reaction after you dair his shield. there's no way you can react and go that far and bair in 26 frames. everything you listed either won't work or has to be done preemptively. Lucario's roll goes stupid far and is faster than his dash lmao. of course it's not safe, but you can't cover it while covering everything else he can do, and that's why it's not just ggs when peach gets up close. (if it was it would be peach's favor, dunno what you see giving lucario an advantage if you think he's optionless up close)

Try me dude.

 

[zmx]

I would love for someone to consistently punish Lucario's roll. I can only do it if I predict it (they are really obvious with it). Never on reaction (the few times I react in time, I miss). Though granted Wifi lag doesn't help.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I would love for someone to consistently punish Lucario's roll. I can only do it if I predict it (they are really obvious with it). Never on reaction (the few times I react in time, I miss). Though granted Wifi lag doesn't help.

Get on wifi with me. I am gonna prove a point here. And make a vid on how Peach can punish his rolls on reaction. Freaking fight rollcario all the time. And I got tired of his rolling. So me knowing my pressure game forces his butt to roll, I wanted to see how I can punish him for it and not let him get away.

 

[zmx]

Get on wifi with me. I am gonna prove a point here. And make a vid on how Peach can punish his rolls on reaction. Freaking fight rollcario all the time. And I got tired of his rolling. So me knowing my pressure game forces his butt to roll, I wanted to see how I can punish him for it and not let him get away.

I can't get on Wifi atm. I will be on errr, about 6 hours from now. If you interested then just send me a PM.

So you want me to just spam his rolls or actually try to win?

I am very curious to see how you'll punish them. I always thought Peach lacked the speed to do it on reaction.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I can't get on Wifi atm. I will be on errr, about 6 hours from now. If you interested then just send me a PM.

So you want me to just spam his rolls or actually try to win?

I am very curious to see how you'll punish them. I always thought Peach lacked the speed to do it on reaction.

I was just gonna dair your shield and have you roll away a few times and then punish it, we was not gonna play a match.