Official BBR Tier List v5

[Supermodel From Paris]

d-smash infinite? you can't stun someone more than 2x in the air until they touch the ground again, at least thats what happens when I tested it

You have to pivot grab.

Grab release, dsmash, pivot grab, release, dsmash.

EDIT: To clarify, you can always pivot grab someone after a dsmash to reset the counter, it's just that Wario is the only character that allows a dsmash after grab release or you could do it to everyone.

If you pivot grab Meta Knight out of dsmash, fthrow him, and for some reason land another dsmash, it will stun him. Pivot grabbing resets the counter, or maybe it's just grabbing from behind, I dunno. The reason is because when you grab someone from behind, it forces their foot to touch the ground.

 

[Steam]

Wolf is going up.

Won't say how much, but he'll probably be the one who gained the most spots this list. (Like really, we had him below LUIGI?)

Not sure, but I think Kirby took the biggest fall.

YAY AMBIGUITY! Mid-tier will be the interesting one this time around.

(Copy/pasted because it's more relevant here than the original location.)

can lucario be in mid tier?

 

[Toneh]

When the unity ruleset turned back on D3's infinites, I messed around with it and found out you only have to pummel characters once and they can't escape, even luigi. So you can do the infinite alot easier and at lower %'s. Its kinda auto win. =/

Something to look into.

 

[Raziek]

can lucario be in mid tier?

 

[NickRiddle]

When the unity ruleset turned back on D3's infinites, I messed around with it and found out you only have to pummel characters once and they can't escape, even luigi. So you can do the infinite alot easier and at lower %'s. Its kinda auto win. =/

Something to look into.

Umm... it's really easy to break out after one DDD pummel.
Just saying.

 

[Steam]

can he be mid tier NOW?

 

[Toneh]

Umm... it's really easy to break out after one DDD pummel.
Just saying.

One pummel? Thats not enough time. I doubt it'll work past 20 to 30%.

 

[Raziek]

can he be mid tier NOW?

Seriously though, I can't say. I can tease, but not leak. You'll get no concrete answers, and the tier gaps are still undecided. Most of the list is still being worked on.

 

[Steam]

d'awww

something tells me this tier list is going to be really really bad though... lol

 

[DMG]

Its not my fault that I cant do any damage, if you would stop mashing, I could just damage you and advance the game.

Even if you intend to damage me, regrabbing over and over and doing NO damage is stalling. There is no justification for allowing it to happen, on either spectrum (player doing it vs player happening to). If I can turn your damage infinite into a no damage infinite through my actions, that doesn't mean you are now allowed to do the non damage infinite. That is game breaking if done for stalling purposes, just as doing damaging infinites is stalling if you do it excessively and do not kill.

Your move.

ZSS has an easier time grabbing Wario than other characters, Orion, not a harder time. She has faster ground speed and can cover his landings with grab from a greater distance.

In addition, the Dsmash infinite works if the bike is on-stage. Wario can NOT DI away from a grab release to beat dsmash, he can only bike out. If Wario's bike is on-stage and ZSS lands a dsmash or grab, it's a stock.

ZSS has more mobility to catch Wario, but as far as the actual grab... her grab sucks ****ing balls for catching Wario.

The Dsmash part also depends on where Wario gets caught with it.

 

[NickRiddle]

One pummel? Thats not enough time. I doubt it'll work past 20 to 30%.

When I pummel ESAM as ZSS, he breaks, on reaction to getting grabbed, before like 60%.

ZSS's pummel is much faster than DDD's, and you can buffer mash inputs during the last 10 frames before getting regrabbed by DDD.
In that case, ESAM mashed out of a regrab during my GR Wario infinite at 110%.
So... he could do it at 110% vs. a DDD too.
Sorry you break so slowly.

 

[Ripple]

lucario is high tier. deal with it

and next time, you should probably ask this rather than an 8 ball

 

[Toneh]

When I pummel ESAM as ZSS, he breaks, on reaction to getting grabbed, before like 60%.

ZSS's pummel is much faster than DDD's, and you can buffer mash inputs during the last 10 frames before getting regrabbed by DDD.
In that case, ESAM mashed out of a regrab during my GR Wario infinite at 110%.
So... he could do it at 110% vs. a DDD too.
Sorry you break so slowly.

Those % seem high.
When I timed it perfect, D3's pummel didn't seem that slow.
I'm gonna test it out sometime.

 

[Steam]

lucario is high tier. deal with it

and next time, you should probably ask this rather than an 8 ball

but lucario is ***.

 

[Ripple]

lucario is better than D3

 

[Pikabunz]

You can't buffer mash inputs, can you?

 

[Steam]

lucario is better than D3

D3 sits on things all day long.

lucario gets sat on all day long

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Even if you intend to damage me, regrabbing over and over and doing NO damage is stalling. There is no justification for allowing it to happen, on either spectrum (player doing it vs player happening to). If I can turn your damage infinite into a no damage infinite through my actions, that doesn't mean you are now allowed to do the non damage infinite. That is game breaking if done for stalling purposes, just as doing damaging infinites is stalling if you do it excessively and do not kill.

Your move.

That is where youre wrong.
Lets change this to another example, one that Ive heard many a time, but slightly adjusted.


Lets assume this - Ganondorf cant approach Olimar. Now sure, Ganondorf can do his best to attack Olimar, but Olimar just runs away, and if Ganondorf makes certain moves, he gets hit by pikmin. Now Ganon has an entire moveset that can oneshot Olimar, but he just cant reach him. (and make believe with me here - ) Except for one move that can hit, but its REALLY risky. But if he doesnt do anything, he gets punished for stalling. He isnt doing anything after all. So, hes forced to put himself at risk?
Now to translate.
Zerosuit cant pummel Wario. Now sure, Zerosuit can try to pummel Wario, but Wario just mashes, and if ZeroSuit pummels as he mashes, she cant hit pummels without dropping a grab. Now ZeroSuit has a pummel-infinite that can oneshot Wario, but she just cant pummel him. And when he breaks, she gets put at risk. But if she doesnt do anything, she gets punished for stalling. She isnt doing anything after all. So, shes forced to put herself at risk?


But yeah, its stalling if ZSS doesnt go for pummels when Wario allows her to get minimally one.

 

[DMG]

Ganondorf cannot reliably and safely approach Olimar. But the whole time, he CAN try to approach and have it fail. He can Down B and get grabbed, Fair and get Usmashed, etc. That is different from stalling by removing the ability of the other person to act.

Olimar being a gay character that's hard to approach is not comparable to a no damage infinite as far as stalling is concerned.


There is no risk for her to pummel. If she pummels, she risks Wario getting out. GETTING OUT of what? An infinite. Not getting out and hurting her. Not getting out and putting her in a bad position. But Wario getting out of that position.

ZSS is doing something deliberate by regrabbing. She may not do anything AFTER grabbing, but the act of grabbing means she is intentionally setting up that scenario. If she chooses to regrab over and over, to perform the infinite, then she should be subject to the stalling rule and allow it to prevent empty damage regrabs for stalling purposes.

 

[Ussi]

You can't buffer mash inputs, can you?

I wouldn't say buffering, you're just doing the inputs early so you don't miss the first possible frame of mashing

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

LOL@ZSS getting 1% ahead and then regrabbing until time

 

[Steam]

LOL@ZSS getting 1% ahead and then regrabbing until time

wario should be able to waft while he's being held.

 

[Orion*]

M2K's views on the tier list revolve around how much difficulty he has with the character.
It was why he believed Diddy was the best character n the game for the longest time, and thought Sonic was a good character.

Funny stuff.
Just nod your head quietly when he comments about a tier list.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't some giant sonic fan... >_>
IIRC he thought the char got ***** but whatever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysgmVAH2jkw

LMAO

ZSS has an easier time grabbing Wario than other characters, Orion, not a harder time.

Sure thing

can lucario be in mid tier?

If I have my way... yes. On the top of it though.

That is where youre wrong.
Lets change this to another example, one that Ive heard many a time, but slightly adjusted.


Lets assume this - Ganondorf cant approach Olimar. Now sure, Ganondorf can do his best to attack Olimar, but Olimar just runs away, and if Ganondorf makes certain moves, he gets hit by pikmin. Now Ganon has an entire moveset that can oneshot Olimar, but he just cant reach him. (and make believe with me here - ) Except for one move that can hit, but its REALLY risky. But if he doesnt do anything, he gets punished for stalling. He isnt doing anything after all. So, hes forced to put himself at risk?
Now to translate.
Zerosuit cant pummel Wario. Now sure, Zerosuit can try to pummel Wario, but Wario just mashes, and if ZeroSuit pummels as he mashes, she cant hit pummels without dropping a grab. Now ZeroSuit has a pummel-infinite that can oneshot Wario, but she just cant pummel him. And when he breaks, she gets put at risk. But if she doesnt do anything, she gets punished for stalling. She isnt doing anything after all. So, shes forced to put herself at risk?


But yeah, its stalling if ZSS doesnt go for pummels when Wario allows her to get minimally one.

Wow really. This is pretty bad like, I don't even want to insult or troll it

 

[Trela]

Put Lucario in Mid Tier.

I dare you.

 

[Steam]

Put Lucario in Mid Tier.

I dare you.

Trela used swords dance!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Orion it's not just ZSS, TL probably has a pretty easy time (comparatively speaking). Speed+tether, and it isn't like Wario can delay his landing. He isn't MK.

Most of the times I've ever grabbed a Wario player is when he's landing... which he does a lot.

 

[bassem6]

Wario sucks. If he had a small shank or something to give him SOME kind of priority, he would be soooo much better...but alas, we wario mains are limited to using his stubby little fists and short elf feet as our weapons while mk gets a sword that is as big as his body and snake can twists the fabric of space to get ridiculously long hitboxes

 

[Flutter NiTE]

Wario sucks. If he had a small shank or something to give him SOME kind of priority, he would be soooo much better...but alas, we wario mains are limited to using his stubby little fists and short elf feet as our weapons while mk gets a sword that is as big as his body and snake can twists the fabric of space to get ridiculously long hitboxes

You pull a motorcycle out of your arse and literally, crap on all opponents.

 

[Orion*]

Wario sucks. If he had a small shank or something to give him SOME kind of priority, he would be soooo much better...but alas, we wario mains are limited to using his stubby little fists and short elf feet as our weapons while mk gets a sword that is as big as his body and snake can twists the fabric of space to get ridiculously long hitboxes

honestly wario with an average ground game sounds better than that :x

like. bar fsmash, his ground game is kinda booty. Jab is good but slow. Usmash/Dsmash are so unpractical. Utilt is unpractical. Ftilt is strong, hard to punish and stuffs approaches with a "half" read. but it's not really a poke move and doesn't give wario to much fast reliable options. Dtilt is pretty decent but nothing special. dash attack is sooo situational, and his dash grab is meh.

edit: at least vs MK. get @ my infinite priority son

 

[Kaffei]

You pull a motorcycle out of your arse and literally, crap on all opponents.

omg so sexy

 

[Steam]

Wario sucks. If he had a small shank or something to give him SOME kind of priority, he would be soooo much better...but alas, we wario mains are limited to using his stubby little fists and short elf feet as our weapons while mk gets a sword that is as big as his body and snake can twists the fabric of space to get ridiculously long hitboxes

fistbump to unarmed characters

 

[Orion*]

fistbump to unarmed characters

I guess rawest form of energy like ever being blasted directly from your palms and feet by a creature apparently trained in the martial arts is considered unarmed nowadays.

 

[DMG]

Countered by a lightning sword of doom that yield to no one but MK

 

[John12346]

Lucario hitting people with energy is just as much of an unarmed action as Wario farting on people.

Sucks for all the other characters that they can't do it

 

[Steam]

Lucario hitting people with energy is just as much of an unarmed action as Wario farting on people.

Sucks for all the other characters that they can't do it

what he said.

MK just sucks at life so he needs a sword.

he wants to fart/ aura

 

[Ussi]

Swords are cool ;-;

 

[BSP]

Except the Master Sword. It's inferior.

 

[Ripple]

Except the Master Sword. It's inferior.

this version of it rocks though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzuoDfB7RWY

 

[Nicole]

lucario is better than D3

u srs bro?
DDD is really fkn good. idk why people are underestimating him so hard, except that he does have a couple really bad matchups. but so does lucario.

 

[Steam]

Lucario's bad matchups aren't as bad as D3's bad matchups.

but Lucario slightly loses to a lot more characters. and doesn't invalidate a number of characters >.>

D3 is still prolly better.