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Soooo you can outplay your opponent without doing anything? Just by being a better character you are outplaying them? Well holy piss then MK players really ARE always outplaying people before the match even starts. So if that's the case then why is any character ever banned? Picking them is simply outplaying your opponent. Its fair they are being outplayed..........
Are you seriously asking this question? There is such as thing as terrible game design where it's obvious to anyone who's smart that a certain character's options are so overwhelming that the only feasible way to win is to either pick said broken character or try your best with whatever character you feel that gives you the best chance of winning. There are characters out there that make MK piss himself.
You said this in another thread recently. If discussion keeps coming up on Wolf, then apparently people do care. Also, he was used a decent amount at MLG according to the Matchslip data(more than some characters above him). Do those players not care?
If that character's options are that overwhelming and the user is implementing them according to you they are being outplayed. Infact by that logic the character isn't broken because he can be beaten if he is simply outplayed. Its just that the only way to outplay them is to infact pick a character with equal options. So pick the character and its fair. The character isn't broken you just have to outplay them (and only by a little) ......
MK is my worst character by far... much worse than my Snake, Ganondorf, and Charizard. =/
I can't use MK at all.. It must be cause if I wish to succeed with him i'd have to give up common things that you'd usually need with a character like Yoshi.
MK
I doubt Yoshi is getting better results than Wolf. But with all the new Yoshi mains popping up and higher results in regionals/Nationals, i'd most likely see him above Sheilda and under Ike.About this Wolf talk... I dunno. Apparently (I could be wrong), Yoshi is getting better results than Wolf overall. If Wolf is going to be rising any, then Yoshi better at least move up to the upper-half of D-tier. That's just my opinion, though.
If a fighting game had a character that was so clearly broken that the only viable and feasible strategy is to either use that one character or lose (dat air fireballz), as long as said character isn't banned, we are free to abuse the **** out of that strategy. It would be a completely valid strategy that players can use to win. Just don't expect that fighting game to have any worth whatsoever as a fighting game if everyone is using one strategy because that's the only feasible way to win. That's why we have bans and that's why we have fighting game communities- to promote and deepen the life of said fighter.
How can you be so blind to how much of an oxymoron this is? It is impossible to outplay an opponent and lose because the point of winning is to outplay your opponent. You don't get passes in tournament becuase you 'put more effort,' you don't get brownie points because you 'played harder' and no one is getting money for 'doing really well most of the time.' The only thing that counts in a tournament is the wins. The person that played better wins every time. It doesn't matter how much better you were playing during the match, if you lose, it's because the opponent did what he/she needed to do to win.
I think sheik ICs is better than zelda IC. Zelda falls too slow, and her landing options are very lack luster. (IC can grab perfectly spaced bair and fare on sheild) If they dash in while you if smash (something that can happen because of fsmashes start up) you can get grabbed out of that. dins is neat but good ICs still know how to shield. after a split dins is good at racking damage on nana or forcing a dodge out of popo or something. it can mess up hammer squal recoveries pretty well.
but he has that puff so it's all goodPolt speaks the truth. His MK is terrible!!
Stop saying this nonsense.If anything, Peach and Luigi should not be above him
she's lucky not to be lower than she already is
Wario has a much better MU vs MK than Peach. Not to mention he has much better MUs in top/high tier.
Alrighty so by that logic I can outplay somebody.... before the first match begins. I can outplay somebody on the character select screen. Infact if I am a solo main, and they are also and my MU character just happens to do really well on them (they play fox, I play pika) then I am outplaying them before any of our sets even begin?
That's not true...wario vs mk is hella bad lol. The wario has to play x10 smarter.
You can absolutely outplay someone on the character select screen. If your opponent is bold enough to pick a character that has the potential to get destroyed by a particular tactic, it's either because he's knowledgeable about his character's limitations and he's confident enough in his character that he can surpass these limitations and win despite them, or he's just simply foolhardy and needs a painful reality check of what a competitive fighter is about. In your case, by picking Pikachu, you're picking a well-rounded character that is more than serviceable in any fighting situation and you have the bonus of ****** space animals with chain grabs. If your opponent picks Fox, you have an inherit advantage- you're using the game's physics and engine to your advantage, which is really the same thing as outplaying them.
Only idiots and fools complain about randomness. People with brains acknowledge that random events are going to occur and they're going to prepare themselves so that if an unfortunate event happens, that they can recover (pardon the pun) from it and move on. Why did you put yourself in a position where the possibility of the ghost platform appearing (and you know that the platform can appear at any time and ruin your day because you studied the stage) can have such an effect on the whole match? Were all the hits that your opponent applied to you unavoidable? Did you think about your recovery path and how the opponent/stage can possibly intercept it? You lost because the ghost platform killed you. Tough ****. You can cry about it all you want, no one's going to let you through the bracket because things didn't go exactly how you wanted it to. Next time, plan your battle better so that random occurrences aren't the deciding factor.
If you don't have the brains to acknowledge that my character has a better damage output than yours, then you don't have the right to complain when I realize that all I need to do to win is guess right on the rock-paper-scissors matchup 50% of the time in order to win and act upon that strategy. I realized that my character has better tools to win than your character and I did what I needed to do to win. So yes, I outplayed you.
Have you even looked at the posts that went after mine (or more specifically, DMG's)? If you have an equal amount of talent with all the characters, then if you want to win, you pick the character with the best set of tools. However, as human beings we all think and play differently, so we pick the character that bests suits our particular playstyle. If you want to be competitive, you have to accept that your character's tools aren't as good as the best character's tools, but that you have the mental capability to use your character's tools to offset that inherit disadvantage. Character diversity is extremely important because as long as the character isn't inherently useless, there are going to be people out there that realize the importance of the character's tools and use them in a way that most people can't even comprehend. More unique toolsets are better because it deepens the game and forces people to really think about which strategy really delivers the highest chances of winning.
Characters are considered broken when they are capable of using one specific strategy that renders every other strategy in the game obsolete (again, dat air fireballz. No one could get through them). The health of a competitive game depends on the influx of players and strategies all contributing in their unique ways toward winning. If the game devolves to 'which player can abuse the one broken strategy the best,' the game isn't going to last at all.
I would love for people to stop complaining about things and focus on actually getting better. Do you know how many more ideas and strategies would come out of it if we all actually focused on different strategies concentrating toward winning? But no, people are always going to complain because they just want to take the easiest path to winning, and when they don't like that path, they'll whine some more until the best path is removed and their path can be given brownie points. Some day, we'll be able to actually behave as a community toward making Brawl the best competitive fighter we can make it. Until that point, I'll just concentrate on getting better with my character.
Alrighty well I have decided that most of this argument cannot continue because it has literally devolved into semantics.
In a game like this, invincibility is clearly an imbalanced reward, that's why we have a community. It is the ruleset committee that decides whether players can reasonably deal with the randomness that a stage provides. If Warioware didn't decide to reward invincibility but instead decide to make whoever wins get 5% more damage (or insert whatever reward you think is unbroken), then the opposing player has to deal with that advantage. The ruleset committee draws the line if it feels that any advantage brought by a stage brings a completely inbalanced advantage to a player.
This argument is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin. If the concept of simple fighting game mechanics is confusing you so much that you have to go on nonsensical rants of hyperbole, I'll have to spoonfeed this to you, very very slowly:
It doesn't matter 'by how much,' you only need to outplay the opponent by enough to win.
I'm sorry you can't comprehend the concept of 'playing to win.' The only thing that matters is what it says on the results screen. Everything else is irrelevant.
So if it's last hit last stock and i make super hard reads to get a mk to 200 and when going in for the kill move i get shuttlelooped at 0 and die i got outplayed?
leon sandbagging with marth has no effect on how his MK would hypothetically do. irrelevant comment is technically irrelevant : D
You fell for the trap. Just like if you airdodge into Ness' spike offstage, TL dsmash, etc.
