Official BBR Tier List v5

[Shaya]

Red Ryu you're cool and all but your style of moderation sucks, stop editing peoples' posts so much, it's draconian and weird

I moderate more aggressively but in a similar style.
It's weird to remove a post's content that is off-topic and is likely to be responded to if left there?

 

[phi1ny3]

lol when DMG visited the Lucario boards, I had to edit at least half his posts rofl.

 

[da K.I.D.]

one of yall editted one of my posts not to long ago ( i think in this thread), and then PMd me like 2 hours later saying that it wasnt against the rules to post it...

 

[Scatz]

now that i think about it, back in the days where we had the sonic Xat room is when we started to break out as well.

Yeah, I remember when yall were broadcasting all the new videos that were uploaded and chilling with like everyone.

Makes sense. Even if it's just socially, a lot of communication between character mains is good. It also makes it A LOT easier to discuss ideas/critique videos since you can have back and forths. And being involved with a character's community is really important as a player in general. A new player who talks a lot with the veterans is usually more likeable and thus likely to receive advice. Veterans get to talk among themselves and work off each other, and even then, they can become more likeable so people will want to critique/help them more.

And Skype is godlike because you can make calls.

Yep. I don't often post my information on the boards since I like to talk about it during that moment (plus, I hate writing it out). People that are new I'm friendly to, but if they show no interest in knowing the respective board's community (and of course learning), then what's the point?

Maybe skype would be good to discuss MUs between characters mains. (Long as they can keep the flames away.)

Depends on whether people act like *******s on skype like they do on these boards, but it works out when you want to separate certain people from conversations.

I don't use the Skype. >.>

Although maybe I should since it's summer and I get bored easily. =P

Percentage that I will see you with Skype this summer: -50%

Warios use Skype pretty often. Last time I used it was me, DMG, Masky, and Dyno. I usually just use it to talk with Limit. XD

Inogoro, there's three PTs in CA alone! PokemonMasterIRL, typh (inactive but still really good), and MaTa. In Texas we have Magik (still good but doesn't go PT often now) and TheNamelessWanderer (never goes to anything despite living in AUSTIN, but from what I've heard he's gotten a lot better since WHOBO 2). Steeler's in KS, and Coontail is in NY. Aposl's EC, but I don't remember what state he's in exactly. I don't play PT anymore, but I still know how he works. Trela also uses him in MT.

That's all the US PTs I can think of off the top of my head.

I may not be a PT main, but I want to make mine a lot better. Plus, I still lurk all the boards that have characters I seriously play (or attempt to).

Skype is an awesome thing. Just saiyan.

QFT.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I still secondary PT, for all it's worth.

 

[Orion*]

I still secondary PT, for all it's worth.

it all means nothing now...

just wario counts for everything you have ever done ever

PT results are moot

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Props to Ike the Ike mains who have been doing work. But I think Sonic should be a little higher.

 

[MechaWave]

Still no sixth tier list? o-o

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Red Ryu you're cool and all but your style of moderation sucks, stop editing peoples' posts so much, it's draconian and weird

Did a google search of the person he mentioned, yeah...no, not gonna fly.

I moderate more aggressively but in a similar style.
It's weird to remove a post's content that is off-topic and is likely to be responded to if left there?

Pretty much.

lol when DMG visited the Lucario boards, I had to edit at least half his posts rofl.

You were a great mod.

one of yall editted one of my posts not to long ago ( i think in this thread), and then PMd me like 2 hours later saying that it wasnt against the rules to post it...

My bad, thought linking to certain things was a no go, but I was correct.

I make mistakes and I apologize for that one.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Red Ryu you're cool and all but your style of moderation sucks, stop editing peoples' posts so much, it's draconian and weird

I laughed.
Personally, I'd have deleted the post but then again I was rather harsh as a mod on boards I moderated. Obviously not this forum.

 

[pikmin.org]

If it weren't for the long grab release animation, where do you guys think Ness would be on the tier list?

 

[zeldasmash]

Sixth tier list taking TOO long from September to the finals of May and still no tier list.

 

[Thebest1pj]

ToonLink is good where he is.

 

[zeldasmash]

ToonLink is good where he is.

Maybe 15th or 16th, but meh, i agree he should stay where he is.

 

[Raziek]

Guys, we said it's not coming out till like, Summer, IIRC. Why are you all waiting on a new tier list so badly?

 

[zeldasmash]

The 5th tier list was released in September and right now its May. 9 months without a new tier list. Thats the longest time we have to wait (i am not rushing it, im just saying its been quite some time).

 

[Chuee]

Guys, we said it's not coming out till like, Summer, IIRC. Why are you all waiting on a new tier list so badly?

I want a new one.

 

[phi1ny3]

tbh I would rather wait until after the major tournament results from Genesis 2 and the like to help bolster the discussion/justification a bit.

If it weren't for the long grab release animation, where do you guys think Ness would be on the tier list?

This is actually a good question. Ness imo would be probably C-tier w/o this bad grab release mechanic imo, the only MU that really still hits him hard even w/o the mechanic is probably MK, iirc MK still can't do a whole lot from grab releases because his grab pummels are too slow, allowing Ness to force air release more often by pressing jump inputs, and MK still gives him trouble via his insane edgeguarding, Ness' recovery is also a taaaaaad underwhelming, but most characters aren't capable of punishing it as easily as most think, because of the inherent risk for messing it up. Actually, I've intentionally taken the full hit sometimes if I knew I was going to live (or occasionally be able to tech it) to cripple his recovery distance a bit rofl (although never in tournament).

 

[-Googs]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12768134#post12768134

DIDDY KONG SNL, Move up on the tier list?

 

[Spelt]

Guys, we said it's not coming out till like, Summer, IIRC. Why are you all waiting on a new tier list so badly?

Because this one is old as **** and extremely outdated and i don't think anybody even agreed with the decision to delay the next tier list?
Just because you guys randomly decided to change it on us for next to no reason doesn't mean we automatically gotta roll with it...

 

[T-block]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12768134#post12768134

DIDDY KONG SNL, Move up on the tier list?

Buddy, you're not the first one to do it in a match. You don't have to go posting it everywhere. You're not really showing anything new anyways.

 

[Raziek]

Because this one is old as **** and extremely outdated and i don't think anybody even agreed with the decision to delay the next tier list?
Just because you guys randomly decided to change it on us for next to no reason doesn't mean we automatically gotta roll with it...

Actually, yes, you do have to roll with it.

The reason we were given for the longer gap is that very little is shifting in the metagame, so there's no massive sense of urgency here. Discoveries are slowing down, metagames are reaching plateaus, it's not like the start of Brawl's lifespan where we discovered amazing new things every month, and character usage and success fluctuated wildly.

Realistically, we're not going to see that much of a change in the list. Here's what I expect MIGHT change: (note: we're not even discussing things yet)

- Diddy possibly overtakes Snake.
- Pikachu, Olimar or both move into A tier, possible passing ICs, Wario, or Marth on the way.
- If one of them moves up and A tier expands, Toon Link would probably bump up into the bottom of B.
- Kirby probably drops?
- Wolf rises?
- Yoshi out of low tier.

I don't see much else realistically changing, and certainly nothing drastic, like "OMGSONICUP8SPOTS". Just some small 1-2 spot shifts here and there.

Disclaimer: All of the above is my speculative opinion of the current metagame.

 

[Tesh]

Guys, we said it's not coming out till like, Summer, IIRC. Why are you all waiting on a new tier list so badly?

Actually, yes, you do have to roll with it.

The reason we were given for the longer gap is that very little is shifting in the metagame, so there's no massive sense of urgency here. Discoveries are slowing down, metagames are reaching plateaus, it's not like the start of Brawl's lifespan where we discovered amazing new things every month, and character usage and success fluctuated wildly.

Realistically, we're not going to see that much of a change in the list. Here's what I expect MIGHT change: (note: we're not even discussing things yet)

- Diddy possibly overtakes Snake.
- Pikachu, Olimar or both move into A tier, possible passing ICs, Wario, or Marth on the way.
- If one of them moves up and A tier expands, Toon Link would probably bump up into the bottom of B.
- Kirby probably drops?
- Wolf rises?
- Yoshi out of low tier.

I don't see much else realistically changing, and certainly nothing drastic, like "OMGSONICUP8SPOTS". Just some small 1-2 spot shifts here and there.

Disclaimer: All of the above is my speculative opinion of the current metagame.

Yoshi is RUINING low tier events. Damn Metasaurus with the heavy super mobile chaingrabby egg tossing ledge grabbing jerk.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its PTs time to ruin Low Tier events.

 

[Spelt]

Actually, yes, you do have to roll with it.

Lol.
No, I don't.

The reason we were given for the longer gap is that very little is shifting in the metagame, so there's no massive sense of urgency here. Discoveries are slowing down, metagames are reaching plateaus, it's not like the start of Brawl's lifespan where we discovered amazing new things every month, and character usage and success fluctuated wildly.

This is such a cop out.
The metagame is advancing just as fast as it always has been.
Just because we're not finding anymore game breaking techniques doesn't mean it's not moving, there are still huge upsets in tournaments, and out of character placements all over the place. People still heavily debate placement among characters. When people are arguing about whether or not a character should move up 2-3 complete tiers you can't tell me that there's "no movement". Please.

Realistically, we're not going to see that much of a change in the list. Here's what I expect MIGHT change: (note: we're not even discussing things yet)

- Diddy possibly overtakes Snake.
- Pikachu, Olimar or both move into A tier, possible passing ICs, Wario, or Marth on the way.
- If one of them moves up and A tier expands, Toon Link would probably bump up into the bottom of B.
- Kirby probably drops?
- Wolf rises?
- Yoshi out of low tier.

I don't see much else realistically changing, and certainly nothing drastic, like "OMGSONICUP8SPOTS". Just some small 1-2 spot shifts here and there.

Disclaimer: All of the above is my speculative opinion of the current metagame.

You ... can't be serious.

 

[Raziek]

Spelt, quite frankly, IDGAF if you think it's a cop out. Because that's the reason we're not doing it, and if I was allowed to, I'd quote the post. We don't feel it necessary to hurry another tier list out the door. And yeah, you do have to deal with it, because your *****ing changes NOTHING. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. The tier list comes out when it comes out, and not a moment sooner.

Who exactly is arguing to move up 2-3 tiers, and why would I not be serious? Can you honestly point at a ton of things that should change and support them adequately?

 

[Spelt]

Spelt, quite frankly, IDGAF if you think it's a cop out. Because that's the reason we're not doing it, and if I was allowed to, I'd quote the post. We don't feel it necessary to hurry another tier list out the door. And yeah, you do have to deal with it, because your *****ing changes NOTHING. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. The tier list comes out when it comes out, and not a moment sooner.

Who exactly is arguing to move up 2-3 tiers, and why would I not be serious? Can you honestly point at a ton of things that should change and support them adequately?

Bookmarking this post to reference if I see another BBR member confused as to why they're criticized so harshly.

 

[ZesuBen]

... So not that I'm ever going to come back to this to see what people say about this post or anything, but...

I'm confused. If you're in such a hurry to get a new tier list up, then make one. If you don't want to make one, I can only assume it's because you don't consider yourself knowledgeable enough to do so, and you want the back room to do it because you trust their judgment as far as smash bros. is concerned.

Still with me? If you trust their judgment to make a tier list, then you should trust their judgment as far as whether a new one is needed or not. Now, as is clearly apparent, your pleas could have been handled more politely. But sweet spam cakes, if they're not making another one because it's not needed, then it's not necessary.

Like I said, though, I'm probably not coming back and checking on it. I just don't like fighting.

 

[Raziek]

Because this one is old as **** and extremely outdated and i don't think anybody even agreed with the decision to delay the next tier list?
Just because you guys randomly decided to change it on us for next to no reason doesn't mean we automatically gotta roll with it...

Bookmarking this post to reference if I see another BBR member confused as to why they're criticized so harshly.

You're hilarious Spelt. I asked why people were expecting one, since we had already said there wasn't going to be one until summer.

I gave you the reason why, and you decided to be an idiot and call it a cop-out and slam the BBR because you think it should happen NOW. Nobody has to consult you about this. The BBR will do the tier list when we're ready.

There is no "delay", because we decided we were going to do it when we felt necessary. Not when YOU feel it necessary.

 

[Nike.]

Discussions will be starting soon guys, just be patient lol.

Raz, how do you see top10 atm (besides metaknight obv lol)?

 

[Thebest1pj]

Actually, yes, you do have to roll with it.

The reason we were given for the longer gap is that very little is shifting in the metagame, so there's no massive sense of urgency here. Discoveries are slowing down, metagames are reaching plateaus, it's not like the start of Brawl's lifespan where we discovered amazing new things every month, and character usage and success fluctuated wildly.

Realistically, we're not going to see that much of a change in the list. Here's what I expect MIGHT change: (note: we're not even discussing things yet)

- Diddy possibly overtakes Snake.
- Pikachu, Olimar or both move into A tier, possible passing ICs, Wario, or Marth on the way.
- If one of them moves up and A tier expands, Toon Link would probably bump up into the bottom of B.
- Kirby probably drops?
- Wolf rises?
- Yoshi out of low tier.

I don't see much else realistically changing, and certainly nothing drastic, like "OMGSONICUP8SPOTS". Just some small 1-2 spot shifts here and there.

Disclaimer: All of the above is my speculative opinion of the current metagame.

Why would tl move up?

The only char he beats above him is ics.

 

[Spelt]

You're hilarious Spelt. I asked why people were expecting one, since we had already said there wasn't going to be one until summer.

I gave you the reason why, and you decided to be an idiot and call it a cop-out and slam the BBR because you think it should happen NOW. Nobody has to consult you about this. The BBR will do the tier list when we're ready.

There is no "delay", because we decided we were going to do it when we felt necessary. Not when YOU feel it necessary.

The only part that is actually true in all of this is the cop out part.

But as long as we're putting words in people's mouths...

The BBR will do the tier list when we're ready.

Oh.

 

[Nike.]

Taken from Pierce's Update Thread:

Late June/early July: New tier list released.

Info's been there since March.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Even I knew that the Late June/Early July part had been up there for a while. >_>

 

[Spelt]

I'm not arguing that the delay isn't happening, i'm arguing WHY.

 

[ErikG]

That isn't a delay. It is just a changed schedule. A delay would have been saying it was already going to be released and then pushing it back.

 

[Triple R]

Wow Spelt, you're pretty ******** lol. It's just a tier list. When it comes out it comes out. If you want to change when it comes out and get your say in, join the BBR. You're acting like a child and actually thinking it's making a difference.

 

[Raziek]

Discussions will be starting soon guys, just be patient lol.

Raz, how do you see top10 atm (besides metaknight obv lol)?

Hmmm...

Honestly, I can't decide at this exact moment. I'd need to take a look at results and match-up spreads to make decisions, which I don't feel like doing at the moment.

MK obviously first. Can't decide who gets 2nd between Diddy and Snake without a close look. Falco 4th.

Completely unsure what order Marth, ICs, Wario, Pika, Olimar should go in. Dedede 10th.

Why would tl move up?

The only char he beats above him is ics.

I should clarify, I don't think he would pass anyone, but B tier would get pretty tiny if Olimar and Pikachu moved up into A, so I think he'd probably get bumped up for the sake of nicely shaped tiers. That, and his results are pretty good, from what I can tell. Probably better than GW's, off the top of my head.

@Spelt: Look, I'm just telling you what I remember we were told. Got a problem, take it up with one of the BBR administrators, maybe you can make a compelling case for us to do the tier list now, instead of two months from now.

Like, are there people who seriously have emotional stake in a slightly outdated tier list? Get some opinions for yourselves, you never listen to us about anything else anyway, why should this matter that much?

 

[Mr. Johan]

I don't think he would pass anyone, but B tier would get pretty tiny if Olimar and Pikachu moved up into A, so I think he'd probably get bumped up for the sake of nicely shaped tiers.

The size of a particular tier shouldn't really matter; Melee's tier list has ICs flying solo in B tier. And before that, I think Luigi was the one person in B or C tier too.

I think Toon Link is high tier material at this point in time too, but because it seems like he is performing leaps and bounds better than the characters below him, and that he has tools to measure up and compare with ZSS and Lucario, not because B tier needs a certain amount of characters in it.

 

[Spelt]

That isn't a delay. It is just a changed schedule. A delay would have been saying it was already going to be released and then pushing it back.

It was a delay when they first announced it...

Wow Spelt, you're pretty ******** lol. It's just a tier list. When it comes out it comes out. If you want to change when it comes out and get your say in, join the BBR. You're acting like a child and actually thinking it's making a difference.

Making fun of someone's intelligence, and then insulting them by lowering their hypothetical age group?
Full of wit, you are.

Like, are there people who seriously have emotional stake in a slightly outdated tier list? Get some opinions for yourselves, you never listen to us about anything else anyway, why should this matter that much?

People want another tier list so they can complain about it.
We've grown tired of tearing apart this one.

 

[Thebest1pj]

The size of a particular tier shouldn't really matter; Melee's tier list has ICs flying solo in B tier. And before that, I think Luigi was the one person in B or C tier too.

I think Toon Link is high tier material at this point in time too, but because it seems like he is performing leaps and bounds better than the characters below him, and that he has tools to measure up and compare with ZSS and Lucario, not because B tier needs a certain amount of characters in it.

I don't think so. I looked at the results and the active tl mains that i know of are placing the same placings they have always been.


TL is like wolf in this situation.

right seagull