Official BBR Tier List v5

[Conviction]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not K Prime, he finds out too much about this game. Freezes and everything.

 

[da K.I.D.]

pikachus grab is bad, standing range is horrible. dash grab is almost alright because he actually jumps forward to grab people. pivot grab is ok, but nothing crazy.

pikachu gets more from his setups to grab than his actual grab range.

 

[Conviction]

The vertical on the grab isn't that bad iirc, but otherwise is bad.

 

[Pikabunz]

Where are people getting that his vertical grab range is good?

Oh and Pika can footstool Fox from a downthrow and lock him. Same with CF and Sheik.

 

[Poltergust]

I think it's from the way he d-throw chaingrabs people, K Prime. They practically go over his head but he's still able to grab them again.

 

[Pikabunz]

Doesn't look that amazing. It probably seems that way because Pika is grabbing them just at the tip of his grab range.

 

[Conviction]

Spoiler

Where are people getting that his vertical grab range is good?

Oh and Pika can footstool Fox from a downthrow and lock him.

Spoiler

Same with CF and Sheik.

GAY!!!!!!!!! I quit.

10chaingrabbedfoxesgettingfootstooledintojablocktoUsmash

 

[da K.I.D.]

also those characters are all fast fallers and falling into cg even though they get popped up kinda high.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

*sigh* No bite doesn't beat every approach Fox has against Wario, and why is Fox approaching? Did he leave his laser in his Arwing before he dropped down?

Almost every approach Fox has on Wario loses to his bite. You go for a fair, his bite will beat it out, dash attack or dash grab, bite beats it. Dair can hit from above, but Wario's Uair beats that out.

Lasers are a means to force and approach but Wario is not under an pressure since they have no hit stun.

@2-1% of damage per laser is nothing really to fret about when it has no hit stun and Wario can just hop over then all day, so if Fox wants to do some real damage he has to use something that isn't his blaster. Because a single hit from Wario will equivocate the damage the laser damage done on him or just outdue it by getting up close.

Then if we bring CP stages into the mix, you can't even camp him at all with lasers on some stages like Cruise and Brinstar.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah, Pikachu's grab range isn't very good. Kind of balls, actually.

 

[Conviction]

The jab lock part is dumb IMO.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, Pikachu's grab range isn't very good. Kind of balls, actually.

lol so true.

 

[Conviction]

Almost every approach Fox has on Wario loses to his bite. You go for a fair, his bite will beat it out, dash attack or dash grab, bite beats it. Dair can hit from above, but Wario's Uair beats that out.

Lasers are a means to force and approach but Wario is not under an pressure since they have no hit stun.

@2-1% of damage per laser is nothing really to fret about when it has no hit stun and Wario can just hop over then all day, so if Fox wants to do some real damage he has to use something that isn't his blaster. Because a single hit from Wario will equivocate the damage the laser damage done on him or just outdue it by getting up close.

Then if we bring CP stages into the mix, you can't even camp him at all with lasers on some stages like Cruise and Brinstar.

If this were the case Fox vs. Wario is be a hard counter.

You shouldn't be so predictable with your approaches that he can bite you on recation.

3-1% adds on and does put pressure lol I will sit there and laser all day if Wario isn't gonna approach.

I have more to say but I don't want to turn this into the Fox vs. Wario MU thread.

 

[Spelt]

I don't see how that's bad.
It's as big as pikachu is. are we expecting a dedede sized grab on a tiny-*** mouse?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't see how that's bad.
It's as big as pikachu is. are we expecting a dedede sized grab on a tiny-*** mouse?

Maybe--

(The first hitbox is pretty much where his head and shoulders are in neutral animation. Better grab range than Marth.)

 

[deepseadiva]

In this thread:

XD

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Squirtle looks so happy.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If this were the case Fox vs. Wario is be a hard counter.

You shouldn't be so predictable with your approaches that he can bite you on recation.

3-1% adds on and does put pressure lol I will sit there and laser all day if Wario isn't gonna approach.

I have more to say but I don't want to turn this into the Fox vs. Wario MU thread.

The fact he can shut down almost every approach you make with bite is enough to convince me that Fox has some issues with that and other areas of this match-up.

Lasers are not pressure because they lack hit stun. Without it, Wario can move around as he wishes without needing to worry about those lasers creating follow-ups if they had hit stun. It's damage but there are extremely simple in usage, all you can do it shoot it via SHTL or SHDL. If you hit him, oh well he still can come at you if need be.

Wario isn't gonna be standing still either, he's gonna be hopping around quite a lot.

 

[Conviction]

Just post in the Fox vs. Wario thread when the Warios make because I know the Foxes will never get around to it :/

 

[Steam]

Squirtle looks so happy.

making sweet love to his grab box

 

[Tagxy]

I think a good dash grab depends more on how good your dash and initial dash are.

 

[Spelt]

Maybe--

(The first hitbox is pretty much where his head and shoulders are in neutral animation. Better grab range than Marth.)

Well, squirtle's grab is just insane, but pikachu's grab is still mediocre imo.


and he looks like he's having way too good of a time.

 

[DMG]

Who cares about Wario vs Fox? It's something like 6:4 or 55:45 Wario's favor, but it's not even close to relevant to the metagame at hand. Go talk about Sonic or something else people lol

 

[Chuee]

No :/
Anything BUT Sonic

 

[Technodeath]

But Sonic is 2g

 

[Espy Rose]

I agree. Let's talk more about Sonic.
Above Peach on the next tier list. Do it to it.

 

[Conviction]

Somewhere above Ganon and below MK IMO

but seriously put him above Pit! I want to see that more than Peach.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Maybe--

(The first hitbox is pretty much where his head and shoulders are in neutral animation. Better grab range than Marth.)

Squirtle's grab originates from his wang. That's why it's so huge.

 

[Seagull Joe]

In reference to Pikachu dthrow chaingrabbing Wolf:

- The chaingrab works until 115%.
- Pikachu can dthrow to footstool on the final throw.
- Pikachu can then QAL to force a jab lock on the Wolf.
- Pikachu can do whatever he wants.

If Wolf is grabbed at 0% this happens. If he is grabbed at say 30% then the cg ends around 80-90%. At 60% it no longer works. So...Wolf's just platform camp the same way they'd avoid Falco's cg.

Maybe--

(The first hitbox is pretty much where his head and shoulders are in neutral animation. Better grab range than Marth.)

Squirtle looks so happy.

He is gonna *** all over with his grab.

Well, squirtle's grab is just insane, but pikachu's grab is still mediocre imo.

and he looks like he's having way too good of a time.

Oh yes. Squirtle gets it in with his own bubble.

Who cares about Wario vs Fox? It's something like 6:4 or 55:45 Wario's favor, but it's not even close to relevant to the metagame at hand. Go talk about Sonic or something else people lol

Anything, but more Sonic talk LMAO.

 

[Exceladon City]

NO
MORE
SONIC
TALK

kthnx.

 

[Chuee]

Move sonic above MK.
Just for the lulz

 

[Sinister Slush]

God, Noone wants to discuss Sonic any furthe- Yoshi.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi should move below Zelda.

/name search.

 

[Pikabunz]

Put Pikachu in mid tier.

 

[Nike.]

K Prime, you've always thought that Pika was overrated. How come?

 

[Espy Rose]

If Wolf is grabbed at 0% this happens. If he is grabbed at say 30% then the cg ends around 80-90%. At 60% it no longer works. So...Wolf's just platform camp the same way they'd avoid Falco's cg.

You're right on the 60% one, but according to K Prime:

Espy 9:48 pm
(9:48:47 PM): So you can still dthrow chaingrab him up to 110% even if you start at 50%?
kprime2004 9:48 pm
(9:48:55 PM): yeah
Espy 9:48 pm
(9:48:57 PM): Would that also include the footstool into whatever?
kprime2004 9:49 pm
(9:49:38 PM): yeah
(9:49:42 PM): footstool still works

Yep.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You're right on the 60% one, but according to K Prime:



Yep.

Brutal. Poor Wolf.

 

[Goldenadept]

he's used to it

after wolf loses his stock to the CG footstool qac lock fsmash pwnage he'll spawn again and taunt

"wassa matter, scared?" then get ***** again, its the circle of life

 

[Pikabunz]

You don't have to worry about the footstool thing. No one knows how to do it.

 

[C.J.]

Ic's can't PS Grab wolfs bair, Grab comes out in 5 frames while wolf is only able to be punished by moves 4 frames and under on block.

Jason it's about 55:45 MK, The gimps is what gives MK the upper hand. Other than that Marth can compete in every other aspect.

Are you sure Kadaj? I'd be willing to bet that if you factor in the fact that when the bair connects w/ nana's shield (after popo's) and there's more hitlag that popo won't be experiencing IC can get the grab.