Official BBR Tier List v5

[Steam]

Yeah basically. I don't feel like going through the headache so, I play MK or ICs. Sometimes Fox.

Fox would probably be best because most lucarios don't know that matchup and it's played a lot differently than most are.

@poltergust- Lol it's probably about as bad for yoshi as it is for Sonic. But Yoshi doesn't get gayed by aura, he just gets totally outclassed lol.

and Fsmash is really hard for sonic to land against luc... Ftilt outspeeds it and Fsmash outranges it and it's predictable against luc. Though yoshi still has Uair though it's tough to land.

 

[Exceladon City]

Fox would probably be best because most lucarios don't know that matchup and it's played a lot differently than most are.

@poltergust- Lol it's probably about as bad for yoshi as it is for Sonic. But Yoshi doesn't get gayed by aura, he just gets totally outclassed lol.

The good thing is that there's only like 2 Lucarios in this area that are threatening; I'm not beating either one of them. So, I'm going Sonic just for the hell of it.

 

[Poltergust]

We do. You can still somewhat kill him. Bair is stale from spacing his *** out all match and Fsmash realistically speaking, isn't killing him until 150% by then we would've died to ftilt.

Actually, the main problem with this match-up is that Yoshi can't kill him. None of Yoshi's kill moves work on Lucario unless you get a good read, so Lucario lives forever and Yoshi dies at like 90% from an Aura Sphere or f-smash.

It makes me want to cry. It really does.

 

[Browny]

if people realized that he would have been lower a long time ago. his MU spread is awful for his positioning

Im pretty sure lucario has done more than every single character below him EVER has. There is NO reason anyone below him would move up other than typical blind bias, it will take a vvvvvvveeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyy long time before any of them prove to be a better character.

I'm all for rating characters by a current metagame but if Lucario gets less popular, that shouldnt mean anything unless the characters below him actually get close to matching his consistancy over the years.

 

[Exceladon City]

Actually, the main problem with this match-up is that Yoshi can't kill him. None of Yoshi's kill moves work on Lucario unless you get a good read, so Lucario lives forever and Yoshi dies at like 90% from an Aura Sphere or f-smash.

It makes me want to cry. It really does.

You know what's easy? Getting reads. You know what isn't easy? Sonic vs Lucario.

 

[Life]

There's only one way to solve this.

DORF DITTOS Wait, how strong a read does Yoshi need?

 

[Steam]

The good thing is that there's only like 2 Lucarios in this area that are threatening; I'm not beating either one of them. So, I'm going Sonic just for the hell of it.

where is this? :o

@browny- Tourney results still aren't everything :/

Though Lucario has been placing lately lol. No matter how far lucario drops he should be above G&W IMO lol.

 

[Poltergust]

If Yoshi wants to u-air Lucario, he needs to predict whether Lucario will air-dodge or d-air. If he wants to f-smash Lucario when he's landing, he needs to predict whether Lucario will either just fall to the ground or d-air to delay his landing.

Up-smash... is just impossible to land. ;__;

*shiver* I'm seriously going to use a secondary for Lucario. The match-up is almost hopeless against competent Lucarios.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi needs a considerable read to actually kill Lucario. Lingering hitboxes keeps us from being able to maneuver around his attacks to land any kind of kill move. Not only that but if we were to actually land on outright, we'd have to have stupid good spacing to land one OVER his attack on a straight up scenario.

 

[Life]

*shiver* I'm seriously going to use a secondary for Lucario. The match-up is almost hopeless against competent Lucarios.

3spy beat you there if that's of any consolation. lol namesearch block

 

[Poltergust]

And this has to do with Lucario... how?

 

[Life]

Luc's apparently just that bad for Sonic AND Yoshi?

 

[Steam]

If Yoshi wants to u-air Lucario, he needs to predict whether Lucario will air-dodge or d-air. If he wants to f-smash Lucario when he's landing, he needs to predict whether Lucario will either just fall to the ground or d-air to delay his landing.

Up-smash... is just impossible to land. ;__;

*shiver* I'm seriously going to use a secondary for Lucario. The match-up is almost hopeless against competent Lucarios.

don't forget Lucario can Wavebounce aurasphere to shift his momentum and make you miss :3

if you want to a Lucario counter I'd go with like... D3, he's pretty straightforward and not as common as his other counters. Maybe marth, but marth isn't really that bad for lucario.

Meta and Snake are okay too but chances are the Luc's going to know the matchup extremely well.

and no one really destroys lucario so you'll need a good deal of experience with them before you start taking out good Lucarios with them.

 

[Poltergust]

What about Luigi or Sheilda?

I actually make take up King Dedede. I was practicing with him a bit the other day... v_v

 

[Steam]

Lucario beats both Luigi and sheikelda. :/

well not sure about sheikelda. but he wrecks sheik (she can't kill) and Zelda (she's bad and can't really get in to land anything).

Luigi can **** lucario really hard if he gets in. he just has a hella hard time getting in.

 

[-Mars-]

Polt, Sheik and Zelda get beat pretty bad by Lucario.

Sheik can't kill him so he stays at max aura forever and you could switch to Zelda but landing a KO move against Lucario is terribly hard......dsmash is decent against Lucario though.

Beats Sheik like 35-65 or 40-60.

Zelda is LOL imo.

Also the Yoshi's are invading again!!!1

 

[Spelt]

lol at people still saying sheik can't kill

 

[Poltergust]

Yeah, I guess I need to use King Dedede, huh. If only I can get the buffering for the d-throw -> up-smash combo down...

Mars, I'm the only one here. Calm down.

 

[Steam]

lol at people still saying sheik can't kill

she can't when she can't GR you into Upsmash.

@polt- when you're here it is a yoshi invasion. because no one uses yoshi

and yeah D3 would be the best option overall, Still gotta watch out for lucarios that know that MU though. Also some Lucarios CP for the D3 matchup so yeah if you beat a Lucario with D3 you're prolly gonna be forced into either Lucario-Yoshi or Falco/Pikachu/MK v. D3 on the Luc's CP.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

lol at people still saying sheik can't kill

She is in the lower half when it comes to KOing power in the Brawl cast at a minimum. Probably lowest quarter of the Brawl cast. Usmash is the main thing keeping her "killing rank" above water as it were.

 

[Espy Rose]

Fun Fact: Sonic's strongest KO move (Fsmash fresh) won't KO Lucario on the edge of Final Destination until 140% (this includes proper DI, SDI, and Momentum Canceling).

**** that match up to hell and back.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea from somebody who actually plays the character.....most matches you will be KO'ing your opponent around 160-200 every stock.

Unless you have GR>DACUS on a character.....which fortunately you do on most of the important characters. On airbreaks you have it on like everybody so I catch Snakes and Diddy's with it because my opponent tries to break out of my grab and air releases.

But other than that decaying ftilt is just really hard to do in an actual match unless your on Castle Seige/Brinstar....so usmash is pretty much out of the equation.

If you play Sheik safe and don't make mistakes (like you have to), you realize the character just wasn't built for killing.

 

[Chuee]

Lucario:
The new MK.

 

[Exceladon City]

where is this? :o

@browny- Tourney results still aren't everything :/

Though Lucario has been placing lately lol. No matter how far lucario drops he should be above G&W IMO lol.

This mystical, seemingly fictional land known as...The Midwest. More specifically, Kentucky. The 2 Lucarios I'm talking about live in Ohio.

Lucario beats both Luigi and sheikelda. :/

well not sure about sheikelda. but he wrecks sheik (she can't kill) and Zelda (she's bad and can't really get in to land anything).

Luigi can **** lucario really hard if he gets in. he just has a hella hard time getting in.

^This.

Fun Fact: Sonic's strongest KO move (Fsmash fresh) won't KO Lucario on the edge of Final Destination until 140% (this includes proper DI, SDI, and Momentum Canceling).

**** that match up to hell and back.

^This too.

 

[Chuee]

We should rename this thread to express your lucario hate here.

 

[-Mars-]

So Poltergust just won a tourney with good players in it. Chalk up another character that has done more than Peach.

 

[Exceladon City]

So Polt just won a tourney with good players in it. Chalk up another character that has done more than Peach.

MK mains weren't allowed to pick stages that they can shark on.

 

[Chuee]

So Poltergust just won a tourney with good players in it. Chalk up another character that has done more than Peach.

There weren't any Lucarios.
No wonder he won.

 

[Steam]

There weren't any Lucarios.
No wonder he won.

Lucario was banned at this tourney

 

[-Mars-]

MK mains weren't allowed to pick stages that they can shark on.

So Seibrik gets 9th because he's not allowed to shark?

What a stupid game we all play.

 

[Chuee]

So Seibrik gets 9th because he's not allowed to shark?

What a stupid game we all play.

He woulda sharked da sheyt outta Woshi

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What match-ups is Zelda better to use than Sheik or which ones do Zelda help Sheik win better?

 

[Ussi]

Ike got 4th at that same tournament Yoshi won

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What match-ups is Zelda better to use than Sheik or which ones do Zelda help Sheik win better?

ICs

Beyond that, I'm not sure.

 

[-Mars-]

^^^ This. Or rather there are only a handful of MU's where transformation is recommended at least by me.

These are D3, Rob, and possibly peach. I also say fight the first 50% of pika with zelda and all of IC's with zelda but those are the 3 that i will say transformation really helps.

There are probably some more that you can if you want like maybe TL or someone if you are having trouble and are confident in the MU.

The important thing is to not do it in MU's where zelda gets absolutely man handled. For instance i wouldnt recommend it vs Lucario, Kirby, Olimar, Snake (although i say this because people say snake ***** zelda but idk tbh).

But if zelda does ok and u canty land a kill why not if you can transform safely. Its just that alot of other MU's like mario, and pika, and MK where killing might not be horrible with Zelda (i only mention MK because i hear landing a kill move on MK isn't the tricky part of the MU its racking the damage) we have cool GR options or better methods via edge pressure.

Ok my bad I should have clarified I was posting from my DSi so that's why the post was so abrupt lol.

DDD, Pikachu, Icies, ROB, Charizard, and Yoshi are probably the ones your going to want to transform for. Any other characters Sheik probably does a better job of killing than Zelda does except for maybe Lucario but that's not recommended like Judo said. There's been times where after I lost my stock I got impatient and sitched to Zelda and my opponent just ran away from me and racked tons of damage on me before I even get the kill. ZELDA IS BAD....like really bad, people who are really good at this game just eat her up.

Also Zelda has guaranteed lightning kicks on most of the fatties out of a dtilt trip which is vey useful.

HOWEVER, Zelda can be really useful if you're fighting a lesser skilled player and for whatever reason you're having trouble with him or someone who doesn't know the matchup..

IMO. Zelda hardly helps at all. Even Icies I think Sheik has a better shot.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well I think that at least tells me together they are better than alone.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Needs moar polt meat riding.

 

[Delta-cod]

Gaiz, Yoshi doesn't need a secondary for Lucario. I beat a good one last week with Yoshi. It just involves going BALLS DEEP on edgeguards.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Gaiz, Yoshi doesn't need a secondary for Lucario. I beat a good one last week with Yoshi. It just involves going BALLS DEEP on edgeguards.

Honestly, the way you said this, I believe you.

 

[Steam]

Gaiz, Yoshi doesn't need a secondary for Lucario. I beat a good one last week with Yoshi. It just involves going BALLS DEEP on edgeguards.

probably a horrible idea since yoshi lacks an UpB.

It's also a lot harder to effectively edgeguard Lucario with characters not named marth or MK than most people think.