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Official BBR Tier List v5
- Thread starter Marc
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da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i wouldnt say above marth just yet, but he should be clearly ahead of the luigi/peach/dk/fox group.
Tagxy
Smash Lord
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Fox is pretty scary, even for pikachu. Id say that MK
each is probably very close to Pikachu:Fox. TBH its really hard to say how much the cg affects the mu. Pikachu doesnt have a hard time landing grabs per say, but usually his ability to land grabs comes from punishment or as a series of options (i.e. in a particular moment he might grab, attack, bait, etc. and you have to guard against one while being vulnerable to others).
Obviously the fox is going to camp the pika, so punishments arent going to be handed to pika players; and if pikachus remove all their other options and focus just on grabbing, pikachus ability to land grabs ranks probably just above garbage. This gives fox a little more wiggle room because its viable for him to take damage until he cant be cgd, or take advantage of pikachus poor ability to straight up land grabs.
tl;dr
1. People overestimate the cg itself on fox
2. People underestimate the damage the existence of the cg can do, and pikas general ability to fight fox without landing it.
On topic, I think fox/dk/sonic/TL (maybe kirby) are all about the same and are probably closer to ZSS/GW/Lucario then to the people potentially below them.
each is probably very close to Pikachu:Fox. TBH its really hard to say how much the cg affects the mu. Pikachu doesnt have a hard time landing grabs per say, but usually his ability to land grabs comes from punishment or as a series of options (i.e. in a particular moment he might grab, attack, bait, etc. and you have to guard against one while being vulnerable to others). Obviously the fox is going to camp the pika, so punishments arent going to be handed to pika players; and if pikachus remove all their other options and focus just on grabbing, pikachus ability to land grabs ranks probably just above garbage. This gives fox a little more wiggle room because its viable for him to take damage until he cant be cgd, or take advantage of pikachus poor ability to straight up land grabs.
tl;dr
1. People overestimate the cg itself on fox
2. People underestimate the damage the existence of the cg can do, and pikas general ability to fight fox without landing it.
Unfortunately the infinite was not allowed.
On topic, I think fox/dk/sonic/TL (maybe kirby) are all about the same and are probably closer to ZSS/GW/Lucario then to the people potentially below them.
Still Sonic hype?
He should never rise above D tier nuff said.
St4ticFir3
Smash Cadet
- Joined
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Still anti-Sonic hype? He should be B tier, nuff said.
Elaborate, ever since X Sonic has been getting mad hype. He is still a very mediocre character.
Sonic is clearly better than Peach, Donkey Kong, ROB, Luigi and Sheik. Seriously how does adding Zelda to Sheik put her above Sonic? All of a sudden Zelda adds some extra viability that Sonic doesn't have?
I guess if Wario could turn into Jigglypuff, he would be above Diddy Kong.
I guess if Wario could turn into Jigglypuff, he would be above Diddy Kong.
I can see Sonic getting C-tier but no further. Look at his match ups.
As a Peach main, I think peach could definitely make it to B tier if she wanted.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
learn to stop running into stupid ****Underrating would be me saying that this *****is better than Wolf. I think Wolf is slightly behind DK. I mean sheesh.
then you realize dk sucks...
complete ***
wolf has literally everything you could ask for in a character minus the worst possible weight to combo'd in
DK has Some good tools but even more weaknesses
reasons why dk sucks:
worst shield to body ratio in the game
****ty approaches
slow moveset/frame data
easily juggled
at best average recovery
if you zone his front side properly poor oos options
Awful mus w/ all of S-A tier outside of potentially marth, ics and snake if you want to go there. i think all win slightly but you can attempt to argue this.
also when he doesnt have punch his mixups are pretty limited :/
lets take this a step further
i beat ADHD with snake on ladder. the best win my snake has in singles... is keitaro in a 6 MAN TOURNAMENT irl for like 3$. lmfao
relevance?
At the end of the day Sonic is still a short range,low priority,light weight and weak character. Actually Fsmash an bair are decent for killing.
Other than that. The people who who placed well with him are just simply amazing players.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
Sonic has the ultimate ally. The clock. Characters that do well use the clock to their advantage. Sonic is bad at most things but he's good at the best thing.
What matchup problems does wario have that jiggs solves. Think before you speak.
Sonic isn't a lightweight. He is a mid weight with a good momentum cancel. Alot of characters in mid tier are pretty weak if you are talking about killing power.
Zelda doesn't really "solve" any matchups for Sheik. She still loses to pretty much everyone. All the characters that hard counter sheik still beat zelda with not much trouble. She is just a bad character attached to an okay character. Sheik+zelda should be ranked just above Sheik.
Zelda doesn't really "solve" any matchups for Sheik. She still loses to pretty much everyone. All the characters that hard counter sheik still beat zelda with not much trouble. She is just a bad character attached to an okay character. Sheik+zelda should be ranked just above Sheik.
I never said anything about Sheik. Sheik sucks.
Meru.
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I've noticed that you and several others are really negative about Peach, so I am asking all of you this.Underrating would be me saying that this *****
What exactly makes Peach a bad character?
Quick attacks,high priority,good recovery,amazing air game.
I've noticed that you and several others are really negative about Peach, so I am asking all of you this.
What exactly makes Peach a bad character?
I honestly don't know what makes her a bad character.
Browny
Smash Hater
Could it be the fact that her results have been rather mediocre for a very long time? Is it because her weakest matchups are VERY tournament prevalent characters? Is the reason no USA peach is able to play her perfectly simply because such a playstyle DOESNT exist and that her limitations as a character are clear as day?
Peach has had it easy for a long time. Doesnt have to do much to stay in a respectable position on the tier list because we all knew she was a great character, she just didnt have top level rep.
Except now we are 30+ months down the track and her potential that we once knew she had, simply doesnt exist. All characters around her have seen rises and drops as people exploit them and then everyone else exploits their weakness back while Peach has stayed constant. Her time is running out, if it hasnt already. We've given up on anyone being to play her perfectly and make her a B tier character (or even stay in C) because its clear it simply is not going to happen. Why continue to wait for this peach saviour as a reason to keep her high when every character near her as one and is proving a better character?
I for one am not saying that she will never be B-tier, NO ONE can say that. you dont have to go far back in time when you all would have chocked while reading anyone suggesting Sonic would be C tier. However as of December 18th 2010, plenty of characters below her have rightfully earned their place above her in the list and she should drop if this list is to represent the present day metagame. Whether the reason for this is Peach being a bad character or not is irrelevant, however apparently we only judge a characters worth by their position on the tier list. So if peach drops to >20th, make of that what you will. She may not be a bad character overall, but thats exactly how she seems right now relative to all other high/mid tier characters.
Peach has had it easy for a long time. Doesnt have to do much to stay in a respectable position on the tier list because we all knew she was a great character, she just didnt have top level rep.
Except now we are 30+ months down the track and her potential that we once knew she had, simply doesnt exist. All characters around her have seen rises and drops as people exploit them and then everyone else exploits their weakness back while Peach has stayed constant. Her time is running out, if it hasnt already. We've given up on anyone being to play her perfectly and make her a B tier character (or even stay in C) because its clear it simply is not going to happen. Why continue to wait for this peach saviour as a reason to keep her high when every character near her as one and is proving a better character?
I for one am not saying that she will never be B-tier, NO ONE can say that. you dont have to go far back in time when you all would have chocked while reading anyone suggesting Sonic would be C tier. However as of December 18th 2010, plenty of characters below her have rightfully earned their place above her in the list and she should drop if this list is to represent the present day metagame. Whether the reason for this is Peach being a bad character or not is irrelevant, however apparently we only judge a characters worth by their position on the tier list. So if peach drops to >20th, make of that what you will. She may not be a bad character overall, but thats exactly how she seems right now relative to all other high/mid tier characters.
Peach isn't a BAD character, really. She has some great things going for her. The problem though, is that there are several characters below her who have proven to be better than she is in the current metagame. For that, Peach should be moved down.
Sonic really should be like in the lowmiddletier. You always go saying a char can't rise because results are important. Sonic has a lot of good results now and you call it just call it x hype. Try to decide or it's hard to argue about pretty much anything.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Yeeeeah, see the problem with that is, Sonic has been proven to be better than Low-Mid. Sonic has the tools to get around any character in the game. His 2 worst match-ups are Falco and Lucario. Falco is semi-prevalent in the tournament scene, and Lucario is pretty uncommon. Even then, Sonic's speed alone can make or break a match-up. As Crash said, Sonic has the BEST ally to assist him; time being that ally. People fail to realize that COMPETENT Sonic mains consistently place well in tournaments. KIDGoggles, Speed, Espy, Kuraudo, X and Trent (when he played) all place well. Atleast Top 10 on a fairly consistent basis.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Yes and Zelda's incredible approach can help her reach her opponent to land that U smash so easily.
FYI D tilt to U tilt kills earlier than U smash.
Peach could be B tier for all we know, but for now, the characters under her and right next to her are showing a lot better placements. She's got the stuff on paper, but it's not showing honestly.
Eventually, maybe, but we've given her a lot of credit up till now while others are steadily improving.
Meru.
I like spicy food
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lol I can very much comprehend every one else's opinion and I find it quite agreeable actually, but this is simply complete bull****. Peach's recovery is really good.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
You're talking about DK, not Peach there. Or maybe Bowser.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
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Peach doesn't have a good vertical recovery.
This exactly. Footstool her and she dies. Her recovery is bad.
lmao thats really situational
You'd have to footstool her when she has neither jump nor float(can you float directly out of getting footstooled without your second jump? Is peach's float even footstoolable at all? my float knowledge is bad)
upb distance covers falling distance, she can probably stall out edgehogs n then upb
ending credits: footstool marth and he dies.
You'd have to footstool her when she has neither jump nor float(can you float directly out of getting footstooled without your second jump? Is peach's float even footstoolable at all? my float knowledge is bad)
upb distance covers falling distance, she can probably stall out edgehogs n then upb
ending credits: footstool marth and he dies.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Link, Zelda, Ivysaur, Ganondorf, Bowser and Olimar would all like to have a word with you.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
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- RicardoAvocado
So much Peach hate
Would someone mind telling me what Kirby, ROB, Pit, DK (not so much) Zelda/Sheik and Luigi (not so much but all I really know is MLG) have been doing tournament wise?
This is sort of a serious question but I'm sort of tired of listening to the recent bashing of Peach
If you footstool her whilst she's Floating then she'll carry on Floating and you'll jump off her, like you do when footstooling someone in an attack animation
Although if someone gets even close to footstooling range I Uair or Up + B out of shock. Footstooling sucks
Would someone mind telling me what Kirby, ROB, Pit, DK (not so much) Zelda/Sheik and Luigi (not so much but all I really know is MLG) have been doing tournament wise?
This is sort of a serious question but I'm sort of tired of listening to the recent bashing of Peach
If you footstool her whilst she's Floating then she'll carry on Floating and you'll jump off her, like you do when footstooling someone in an attack animation
Although if someone gets even close to footstooling range I Uair or Up + B out of shock. Footstooling sucks
Meru.
I like spicy food
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The distance of her vertical recovery isn't bad either. It's just average. Not good not bad. She does not die from a footstool... if you ever manage to get one.
In addition to that, she rises quite quickly, has hitboxes all over her body and is very hard to edgehog. It is possible, it's just not easy. Peach might as well stall and use UpB at an unexpected timing, which is certainly not hard to accomplish. This makes her recovery good.
And that is in the rare occasion of Peach being in a disadvantage position. Her horizontal recovery is amazing and she's so floaty, she gets immediately sent upwards.
With the exception of possibly DK, nothing special really. They should actually drop too, especially since we're steadily focusing much, much more on tournament results, rather than the tools if the chraracters.
It seems that Sonic is a viable character. Then what does he do down there?
What?
What does he do down where? Are you trying to ask "what is he doing in lower-middle tier"?
Browny
Smash Hater
Omg wheres the next tier list already I'm bored of this one
Albert.
Smash Master
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