Official BBR Tier List v5

[da K.I.D.]

if theres no pikachus sheiks or ICs at said tourney, then there is no effect.

and its not that difficult to find a tourney without a sheik or pika player.
Ics are a bit more prominent, but still not enough to affect fox.

 

[Teh Future]

results say otherwise, unless you're ryu and you're combing the AiB ladder for useful matchup data

yeah but i do this thing thats called playing the game

the only reason peach loose to mk because the mk is a better player or they are bad at the matchup

 

[da K.I.D.]

yeah but i do this thing thats called playing the game

the only reason peach beats mk because the peach is a better player or they are bad at the matchup

I honestly believe not jokingly that you worded your post wrong and that I fixed it for you.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

results say otherwise, unless you're ryu and you're combing the AiB ladder for useful matchup data

I just pay attention to the AiB stuff really.

if theres no pikachus sheiks or ICs at said
tourney, then there is no effect.

and its not that difficult to find a tourney without a sheik or pika player.
Ics are a bit more prominent, but still not enough to affect fox.

Yeah but again I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about the tier list itself. If they are less common sure it makes him more viable but they shouldn't be ignored as some minor problem, if they do appear he has an issue.

 

[Orion*]

Sheik can't play gay on a character that's faster than her and has a decent reflector w/ out tilt lock.
That is pretty much all she has on him, nothing else Sheik has give fox trouble other than her tilt lock, and her speed.
It's match up defining.
I'm not saying it's all Sheik can do on him but without it Fox/Falco/Wolf would all have drastically different ratios.
All most likely not in her favor.



Well not to make it sound like she can't catch him, she goes about toe to toe with him in movement but I just think Fox running away from Sheik > Sheik running away from Fox, yet there's no point in discussing if Sheik can run away from him or vice versa when she won't be doing it.

Also regardless of how bad Fox does on Sheik it shouldn't really affect his positioning on the tier list MK is a much more important MU.

its not really a campy mu anyway tbh but if sheik has a stock lead she can just crouch at the ledge and be a ****** lmfao

fox has to semi camp her, but he cant full camp. and lol @ reflector being useful, fox reflects. just walk at him, if he drops reflector then needle or just appropriate punish lol

Orion, why aren't we friends?

we can be now if you want

 

[-LzR-]

Orion care to explain a good reason to ban infinites? I don't there are any except poor Ness scrubs who think they are da bess.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Orion care to explain a good reason to ban infinites? I don't there are any except poor Ness scrubs who think they are da bess.

 

[-LzR-]

3 am typos people!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

A-N bans some infinites because we believe tournaments are about finding the best player.

 

[-LzR-]

Best players don't play crappy characters.

 

[Orion*]

Best players don't play crappy characters.

a lot of times its sadly the case lol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Best players don't play crappy characters.

First, we weren't talking about crappy characters, we were talking about characters that suffer infinites. But let's just assume you mean "both" of those things:

LOL Xyro doesn't play Samus? Vermanubis doesn't play Ganondorf? And, whoa, Will doesn't play DK? Shaky doesn't play Ness? Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of reality.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

First, we weren't talking about crappy characters, we were talking about characters that suffer infinites. But let's just assume you mean "both" of those things:

LOL Xyro doesn't play Samus? Vermanubis doesn't play Ganondorf? And, whoa, Will doesn't play DK? Shaky doesn't play Ness? Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of reality.

they're good players however, I don't even think some people would name any of these guys in there top 10 20 or 50 smashers if asked.

 

[Deleted member]

You wouldnt name will in the top 50 smashers?
Thats kinda weird if u ask me, hes 3 in NY

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You wouldnt name will in the top 50 smashers?
Thats kinda weird if u ask me, hes 3 in NY

I didn't say me. I said some people.

 

[-LzR-]

There would be no real reason to ban those infinites. Some of you are against LGL which limits MK's gay tactic. DK has infinite on EB kids. Dedede has infinite on DK and blablabla. Why do you want to nerf Dedede and Marth? And why do you want to buff EB kids when they suck, infinite or not?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So people point out the mistake of including AiB tournaments as proof, but not the mistake of including the Japanese scene as proof, even though they might as well be equally different from the NA offline scene as far as we're concerned?

People are claiming that Sheik vs Fox is 7-3, like how MK vs Peach is 7-3, yet the Sheik vs Fox MU is hard to master and apparently the MK vs Peach one isn't even though they appear from an outsider's point of view to have about the same amount of gay moves/options against the lower number character?

People are trying to claim some is a false as something else that hasn't been proven false yet?

People are trying to say using infinities on people who go into the tournament knowing that you run that risk if you use a character who is weak against them is scrubby as they don't let you find the best player?

I love all of you and your trolling ways. :D

 

[Exceladon City]

There would be no real reason to ban those infinites. Some of you are against LGL which limits MK's gay tactic. DK has infinite on EB kids. Dedede has infinite on DK and blablabla. Why do you want to nerf Dedede and Marth? And why do you want to buff EB kids when they suck, infinite or not?

It's not even nerfing. Marth and DK pretty much smack the Mother Boys around without them anyways.

Dedede still has a smallstep and normal CG against DK regardless of the infinite being banned.

Ness and Lucas aren't getting buffs from not being able to get grab released to infinity. They can still get grab released into other gay ****.

 

[-LzR-]

So you pointed out that it's useless to ban them. And "Marth already beats EB kids without the infinite" is a really really bad reason to ban them.

 

[Exceladon City]

So you pointed out that it's useless to ban them. And "Marth already beats EB kids without the infinite" is a really really bad reason to ban them.

I'm bringing up the point that you say it's buffing/nerfing other characters. Marth doesn't immediately go down a notch because the Ness MU without the GR becomes 4:6, as opposed to the previously stated 3:7.

DK vs Dedede is still garbage as **** without the infinite.

With or without the bans, does not change how good/bad those characters are.

 

[dean.]

With neither smallsteps nor infinites, DK vs Dedede really isn't that bad for DK.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm bringing up the point that you say it's buffing/nerfing other characters. Marth doesn't immediately go down a notch because the Ness MU without the GR becomes 4:6, as opposed to the previously stated 3:7.

DK vs Dedede is still garbage as **** without the infinite.

With or without the bans, does not change how good/bad those characters are.

Yes it does, it makes match-ups worse or better which some people do want to take advantage of.

 

[Deleted member]

Excel, at least Fox being better than Wolf is somewhat arguable(he's not...), but what on Earth makes you say that DK is better than Wolf?

You're underrating the **** out of him, lol

 

[Chuee]

Excel, at least Fox being better than Wolf is somewhat arguable(he's not...),

Oh, but he is.

 

[-Mars-]

Sheik can't play gay on a character that's faster than her and has a decent reflector w/ out tilt lock.
That is pretty much all she has on him, nothing else Sheik has give fox trouble other than her tilt lock, and her speed.
It's match up defining.
I'm not saying it's all Sheik can do on him but without it Fox/Falco/Wolf would all have drastically different ratios.
All most likely not in her favor.



Well not to make it sound like she can't catch him, she goes about toe to toe with him in movement but I just think Fox running away from Sheik > Sheik running away from Fox, yet there's no point in discussing if Sheik can run away from him or vice versa when she won't be doing it.

Also regardless of how bad Fox does on Sheik it shouldn't really affect his positioning on the tier list MK is a much more important MU.

Orion pretty much posted what I was going to post. Did you not read that I said she has superior range and does nasty things to him offstage?

So people point out the mistake of including AiB tournaments as proof, but not the mistake of including the Japanese scene as proof, even though they might as well be equally different from the NA offline scene as far as we're concerned?

People are claiming that Sheik vs Fox is 7-3, like how MK vs Peach is 7-3, yet the Sheik vs Fox MU is hard to master and apparently the MK vs Peach one isn't even though they appear from an outsider's point of view to have about the same amount of gay moves/options against the lower number character?

Did you really just compare WiFi matches to matches from legit Japanese players? WOW.

Nobody said that bro. MK appears a ton in tournaments as a players main and a players secondary.

There are probably 10 times the amount of people that secondary MK than there are Sheik mains.

So Fox players don't have to worry about somebody having a **** pocket Sheik to counterpick because it simply doesn't exist.

Now do people have good MK's to cp Peach with? Yes.



Edit:

Fox and DK are better than Wolf. Wolf is better than Peach though. Not sure where Luigi should fall amongst those characters though.

 

[Ripple]

wolf is very good. why are people underrating him. Wolf's much better than fox

 

[-Mars-]

West Coast people will say Fox is better because they play TKD. Midwest people will say that Wolf is better cuz they play Kain. Simple.

 

[Ripple]

West Coast people will say Fox is better because they play TKD. Midwest people will say that Wolf is better cuz they play Kain. Simple.

I haven't played kain in over 6 months. I've played zeton more often than I have kain

 

[Death Arcana]

that doesn't make either side right if thats what your getting at
if not whatever are you going to be at the tourney tomorrow??

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Did you really just compare WiFi matches to matches from legit Japanese players? WOW.

When it comes to the NA offline scene, they both have the same amount of influence: none until the players are in the NA offline scene, and only while they are in that scene. Technically, the wifi matches are probably closer to actually affecting things than the Japanese scene, if only because the players between the two worlds (NA online and NA offline) overlap a LOT more than the other scene (Japan and NA offline).

Regardless, both the wifi and Japanese scene will never have an impact on the tier list, so I don't know why either one ever gets brought up. It's a waste of time. Stop being a bunch of wifi noobs and weeaboos or w/e that term is plz.

Nobody said that bro. MK appears a ton in tournaments as a players main and a players secondary.

The feeling that was sent across was that it was harder to learn that Sheik MU than the MK MU. Only the difficultly of the one MU was brought up.

There are probably 10 times the amount of people that secondary MK than there are Sheik mains.

So Fox players don't have to worry about somebody having a **** pocket Sheik to counterpick because it simply doesn't exist.

True, though you can argue that means Peach mains are better equipped to deal with their bad MU due to experience than Fox mains are equipped to deal with three bad MUs.

 

[Exceladon City]

Excel, at least Fox being better than Wolf is somewhat arguable(he's not...), but what on Earth makes you say that DK is better than Wolf?

You're underrating the **** out of him, lol

Underrating would be me saying that this ***** is better than Wolf. I think Wolf is slightly behind DK. I mean sheesh.

 

[Chuee]

Underrating would be me saying that this ***** is better than Wolf. I think Wolf is slightly behind DK. I mean sheesh.

inbefoooredarkpch

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

inbefoooredarkpch

He's not going to show up.

So don't bother.

Fox and DK are better than Wolf. Wolf is better than Peach though. Not sure where Luigi should fall amongst those characters though.

Fox is worse than them all, the rest from there is debatable.

 

[Chuee]

Fox is worse than them all, the rest from there is debatable.

lol so hes worse than DK, Peach, Wolf, and Luigi?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

lol so hes worse than DK, Peach, Wolf, and Luigi?

Oh Luigi no.

I do think he is worse than Peach, Wolf and DK.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright mr wifi ladder wins are legitimate achievements.
I beat kain on ladder with MK (and im terrible with MK).

 

[BSP]

I'm still curious on where people think Sonic should be in this mix

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Alright mr wifi ladder wins are legitimate achievements.
I beat kain on ladder with MK (and im terrible with MK).

Ok.

 

[Deleted member]

I took AZ to game 3 on ladder. Beat his DK on Brinstar. I'm legit.

But seriously Ryu, Wifi cannot be used as an argument for...well, anything, lol.

Also, I think Kain was originally just thought to be a wifi Wolf/aka scrub material until he actually started going to tourneys and proved himself.

 

[Chuee]

Kain originally was a wifi player/wolf. I remember seeing him on AiB ladder and online clans, stuff like that a few years ago lol.