Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Jimmyfosho]

Actually I think Snake has that beat. People keep saying he shouldn't win half of what he does but he's still number 2 in results.

In fact I can think of plenty of characters that are more underrated than G&W

I strongly agree

 

[Alphicans]

Ok well GaW used to be most underrated character in the cast, and then Zac and Vinnie pulled some wins out, and now people have started to respect him as a character. Still I see people call him garbage a lot. He's not amazing, but he's still high tier which is hardly garbage.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think GaW should be high tier though

 

[Seagull Joe]

GW doesn't "beat" anybody higher than D-Tier except Kirby and maybe Pit / ROB. The character is ruthlessly overrated and only does well in areas with lots of MK players. Ironically it's the match-up a lot of GW players like to complain about the most even though the character gets mercilessly ***** in tourney by characters like Diddy Kong, Marth, Olimar and IC first.

Some of his +1 should be 0 or -1 [Pikachu, Lucario, Wolf], some of his +2 or +3's are actually +1 [Mario, Sheik] while the 0's vs Falco, DDD, ZSS and Fox are -1. His match-up spread is easily the most overrated in this match-up chart.

Nah@Fox or Zss beating GaW. Falco should be -1, but you underrate GaW TOO much.

Fox can't camp GaW similarly to how he camps other characters. GaW can duck under lasers and his Bair really hurts Fox's approaches. Fox is also a lightweight and dies really early from any of GaW's smashes and Fair. GaW can bucket lasers, but they won't kill till high percents from a full bucket because it's the weakest bucket in the game.

Zss can't use Dsmash reliably in this matchup as she can in every other matchup in the game. He buckets it! Her normal combo moves don't work because of a move that makes GaW fairly scary for Zss to use Dsmash.

His Up b can't be reliably beat and is super safe. Fox and Zss can't exactly easily get in. The matchups seem neutral.

And the Pikachu matchup is correct from what I've seen heard. May be even though and not +1.

Actually I think Snake has that beat. People keep saying he shouldn't win half of what he does but he's still number 2 in results.

In fact I can think of plenty of characters that are more underrated than G&W

Snake is still underrated

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ok well GaW used to be most underrated character in the cast, and then Zac and Vinnie pulled some wins out, and now people have started to respect him as a character. Still I see people call him garbage a lot. He's not amazing, but he's still high tier which is hardly garbage.

He doesn't deserve high tier, because he's really not very good at all.

He's not terrible, but he's not good. :/

 

[Seagull Joe]

GaW vs Wolf and why it's even or Wolf's favor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY7mQgUj7i0

 

[Deleted member]

GaW vs Wolf and why it's even or Wolf's favor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY7mQgUj7i0

Agreed. G&W just doesn't have a lot of safe options against Wolf.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You switched to MK on Brinstar. :/

 

[Deleted member]

I think his point was in the first match.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah but for a character like G&W, I would consider looking at a set of Wolf vs G&W.

Granted Wolf isn't bad there, but I do think G&W gets buffs that shouldn't be ignored there.

 

[DMG]

It's even.

 

[Seagull Joe]

You switched to MK on Brinstar. :/

If someone hard cp's me, then I go Mk. I don't give a **** lmao.

Hard cp's: Rainbow cruise and Brinstar. Mk stages.

Yeah but for a character like G&W, I would consider looking at a set of Wolf vs G&W.

Granted Wolf isn't bad there, but I do think G&W gets buffs that shouldn't be ignored there.

GaW vs Mk is still horrid for GaW and GaW does "better" on Rainbow Cruise, but the matchup still sucks. GaW has no signifcant cp stages on Wolf. His best advantage might be on Rainbow Cruise. I think Wolf would go even with GaW on Brinstar and win on neutrals, Delfino, Halberd, and Ps1 (I don't know if the 5th neutral is lylat or ps1 at this point). I think GaW might be even on Frigate (I don't know how good he is there, but Wolf is meh there).

 

[Juushichi]

You know. I don't think I've ever seen a top/good ZS against a likewise GnW.

How is that MU in his favor or even though? I just cant see it.

 

[Sync.]

I don't think Jerm has ever taken a set off of Trela.
First stock is always even, Jerm has to force an approach to kill because Trela usually just stays back and gets hit by countless amounts of projectiles at high percentages so he can build up aura. When Jerm gets in - it's like one fresh grab by Trela or bair, fsmash, whatever and Jerm (because of his floaty/lightweight stature) is gone.

After that, Lucario has a blast combo'ing the crap out of Jerm.. and before you know it Jerm's second stock is gone.

I honestly don't think it's player dependent. Jerm holds his own against Gnes, Razer, Me, Dphat, Denti, (basically all of Texas) - but throughout my whole career I have not seen him tke a single game off of Trela.

He used to beat Trela in sets all the time and he still can but a lot less frequently. Jerm and Trela is VERY player vs player. To be honest I think Lucario vs TL is +1 Lucario.

 

[WindMajor]

Nah the MU is dead even. It practically goes to whoever gets the first KO.

 

[Steam]

Nah the MU is dead even. It practically goes to whoever gets the first KO.

honestly toon link will have more issues if he dies first than lucario IMO... because even if lucario has to eat damage to kill tink he can easily even it up with Tink's lack of kill power+ aura... if Tink dies first he can get buried fast if he falls into something.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

GaW has high tier tools, but his MUs with most of top tier is bad, soooo.....

Ics, D3, and Snake are the most underrated. D3 and snake are terrible on paper, but they just make a joke out of risk/reward.

ICs have nearly every random claiming that their character beats them, yet their money won/usage ratio is better than MK lol, and they are still 5th overall in terms of winnings. Not to mention that they appear to be the best non MK secondary in the game

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah. I'm thinking about picking up Ice Climbers as a secondary to take care of a couple bad matchups.

 

[Chuee]

Having ICs as a 2nd is stupidly good.

 

[Thebest1pj]

All this discussion stemed from me saying some mus are even.

thank you based lord.

 

[Macmaster4k2]

If i may ask, whats the point of the tier lists/ charts? doesnt it just come down to how good the player is and how much that player knows his opponent? IMO I find it to be a little brawlist, kind of like being racist but instead of negative attitudes towards people, its negatives views towards certain brawl characters, haha

 

[Chuee]

If i may ask, whats the point of the tier lists/ charts? doesnt it just come down to how good the player is and how much that player knows his opponent? IMO I find it to be a little brawlist, kind of like being racist but instead of negative attitudes towards people, its negatives views towards certain brawl characters, haha

lol @ brawlist.
Though, skill and player knowledge are pretty important aspects when playing a match, the character MU is just as important.

 

[John12346]

Mac, this MU chart is under the assumption that both players are at a perfectly equal standing in skill.

Of course, if one player is better than the other, they can win even with a disadvantaged character, but the player with the advantageous character doesn't have to put in quite as much work to win.

 

[Alphicans]

^ Sadly enough, not everyone had this mindset when making this chart :/. There were a few instances of "most people have troubles with this match-up" or "it's only even if you do this."

 

[John12346]

Oh seriously?

Well that's lame... -___ -;

 

[Macmaster4k2]

Mac, this MU chart is under the assumption that both players are at a perfectly equal standing in skill.

Of course, if one player is better than the other, they can win even with a disadvantaged character, but the player with the advantageous character doesn't have to put in quite as much work to win.

didnt know that, thanks for the clarification

 

[Tesh]

GaW has high tier tools, but his MUs with most of top tier is bad, soooo.....

Ics, D3, and Snake are the most underrated. D3 and snake are terrible on paper, but they just make a joke out of risk/reward.

ICs have nearly every random claiming that their character beats them, yet their money won/usage ratio is better than MK lol, and they are still 5th overall in terms of winnings. Not to mention that they appear to be the best non MK secondary in the game

What, are you talking about Ripple's thread? Because ICs are only that high right now because Ally wins tournaments and uses a bunch of characters. Its Ally.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Yeah. I'm thinking about picking up Ice Climbers as a secondary to take care of a couple bad matchups.

Having ICs as a 2nd is stupidly good.

Honestly, I main them, but use them as a secondary all the time just due to how good your opponent being unprepared for them is (not meaning MU exp, meaning "oh he's an MK lets go FD)

What, are you talking about Ripple's thread? Because ICs are only that high right now because Ally wins tournaments and uses a bunch of characters. Its Ally.

Yes, ally won a ****load for them, but look at player specific data. They still win waaay more than most of the other characters, and have many people doing so.

 

[John12346]

Actually, Tarm, when you remove Ally from the equation, ICs drop by a really freaking large margin...

On the final column of my chart, which averages character success and users of character success, ICs drop from
$2764.93 - 7.72%
to
$1985.59 - 5.55%
when you remove Ally from the equation.

It's pretty ****ing drastic lmao

 

[Tarmogoyf]

But, from you're user success, they still have like 7 people winning > 100 with them right? Still quite good

 

[John12346]

Kweh? There are 26 different IC users who have placed in the money so far in 2011. That's about on par with the rest of the high tier.

The amount of money ICs would have right now barring Ally from the equation would be about equivalent to the rest of the high tier.

Basically, ICs are performing as well as any other high tier when we exclude Ally's massive skew from the equation.

 

[Kantrip]

Kweh? There are 26 different IC users who have placed in the money so far in 2011. That's about on par with the rest of the high tier.

The amount of money ICs would have right now barring Ally from the equation would be about equivalent to the rest of the high tier.

Basically, ICs are performing as well as any other high tier when we exclude Ally's massive skew from the equation.

Is that also removing Ally from his other characters? If you remove his results from one, you should remove them from all.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Still an argument that they don't suck as much as most of smashboards say

Wait, when you say high tier, do you mean like Pika/oli tier, or falco, marth, and wario tier?

 

[John12346]

Well, as I showed, the chart of (money won/overall usage) vs tier placement shows a steady decline as you move from MK to Ganon. Basically, ICs are above most of the characters below them, but below most of the characters above them. They fit into the graph where they're supposed to be.

Also, the reason why I removed Ally's ICs only in this hypothetical scenario is because Ally used ICs in only one set at whatever national he won using them. We know his Snake and MK are used more commonly, hence there's no need to remove them in these scenarios.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

glad too see this thread started making points that matter instead of discussing random crap.

*sits back and waits for a discussion involving pit*

 

[Spelt]

glad too see this thread started making points that matter instead of discussing random crap.

*sits back and waits for a discussion involving pit*

These two statements contradict each other.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

These two statements contradict each other.

you main pkmn trainer...... nuff said

 

[rPSIvysaur]

you main pkmn trainer...... nuff said

Do you realize that minor trolling and is infractable? Seriously, don't post like that, all it does is piss people off.

 

[Zajice]

He doesn't actually main Pokemon Trainer though, so no harm done.

 

[z00ted]

Do you realize that minor trolling and is infractable? Seriously, don't post like that, all it does is piss people off.

Lol is this post serious?

A couple pages back people were non-stop blabbering about freakin Pokemon competition.