Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Nefarious B]

How does Zero Suit lose to MK? I think she holds a pretty darn good record versus him and Seibrik vs NickRiddle is pretty even (both on the top of the matchup).
Ditto for Pika/ESAM.
Why does she lose to Snake? I think the only ZSS who thinks that is Nick, I don't think I ever heard of another ZSS having trouble with Snake.
Why does she lose to Wario? Because of that suicide fluke? Why to Marth? Been asking Shaya? looool

Meh MK's ground pokes are way too good for it to be even. Mixing up ftilt1>dtilt and dash grabs alone is so gay it's ridiculous. Throw in the fact that tornado can stuff our juggle attempts if we're too hasty and MK does better against the things she does well than most characters do.

Pika I have no idea but i trust Nick on that

Wario could probably go for even. It's an interesting matchup because both characters have a very difficult time cracking the other defensively. ZSS has a better ground game than him imo (lol?), and she can go head to head with him in the air. While his individual attacks hurt more, she can make it very difficult for wario to land a kill move, to the point where I usually live well past the % he could theoretically kill at. Wario is really hard to land a kill move on as well, but thankfully nB spam is a pretty solid way of trapping him into shield on landing and if you actually hit with it you get a free kill move. I could go into more detail but it's really just a very cat and mouse kind of matchup

I hate Snake, I think it's her second worst matchup personally. Should be -2, falco should be -3, MK possibly -2, but that's assuming that we're doing realistic MK matchups which is luls in this list. Wario should be 0 imo, only thing keeping it out of her favor is killing.

IMO she beats some characters she goes even with on this list, like GaW should be +1 or maybe +2, Peach +1. But whatevs this isn't bad

 

[-Mars-]

Olimar is really stupid. I envy those of you who actually know what to do in that matchup.

 

[DMG]

yes olimar's grab is very good. but that is not his only gimmick and there are plenty of ways not to get grabbed by him if you know how to jump. besides he has a terrible recovery, is light weight, and you got to know how to stay on stage. although i would say he is easier than the other hard to use high tiers, he still takes more skill than the easy to use. he could be considered in the middle. besides he is just 1 out of the several examples i listed.

i mean you can flame it all you want i don't really care. after all this is a bunch of brawl nerds talking about this video game. everyone who is on this site, myself included, cannot deny that they are a brawl nerd.

I'm not a Brawl nerd. I can recite multiple move frame data, and I know a lot about the game, but that makes me knowledgeable over nerdy.

If you want a guy who will protect your pockets, Seibrik is your man

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

I'm not a Brawl nerd. I can recite multiple move frame data, and I know a lot about the game, but that makes me knowledgeable over nerdy.

lol being knowledgable at a video is what makes one nerdy.

 

[deepseadiva]

Does Mr. Doom name-search "SDI"?

I think he does.

 

[DMG]

Does Mr. Doom name-search "SDI"?

I think he does.

He name searches SDI, Doom, Doctor Doom, The incredible Haggar, Serendipity, DMG, low tier, and Jab

 

[Dabuz]

hey man, hitting one direction, and than quickly hitting the opposite direction and Z... that is some extremely technical shiz right there.

learning to avoid situations to get killed from less than 50% due to one hit, hitting with extremely low priority attacks with very long but narrow ranges, finding ways not get juggled, punish people for juggling you, bad air game and horrible off stage game, order pikmin, keep stage control and consistent spacing, deal with extremely disadvantaged CP situations, a small pool of reliable attacks, very telegraphed and punishable attacks, lack of good opportunities to punish without be prepared for those opportunities, a very exploitable dead zone to get approached by, and a wide variety of helpful but situational gimmicks along with hurtful gimmicks that only this character can experience makes this character much harder and more technical to use than you give credit for

 

[da K.I.D.]

i could list off 15,000 reasons why falco and ddd are hard to play too, but that doesnt change the fact that the basic strategies for these characters are free as hell.

 

[Cook]

Olimar may have some problems, but all those problems can be addressed by using grab and c-stick.

 

[Gea]

What does ease of play really have to do with anything? All Brawl characters are extremely accessible to the point where arguing ease of use probably just means you are bad at the game.

 

[Dabuz]

What does ease of play really have to do with anything? All Brawl characters are extremely accessible to the point where arguing ease of use probably just means you are bad at the game.

But its degrading to character mains when people say their character is extremely easy to play at a competitive level, accessibility is not the same thing as actually learning how to use a character.

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

Link is so wrong lol
Peach and Fox next to D3 and MK is just....... No.
MK and D3 needs to move up, Peach needs to move down, dunno about Fox, Pika and Wario needs to move up... Stating anything else would only be my opinion. And please mind that everything I did say isn't.

Also, for the love of god, for your own sake, go to AiB for info about Link. If the forum isn't good enough, the Link mains over there are the ones you need to talk to.

Anyways, don't get the wrong idea. This is a great job IMO and I'm really glad someone finally did it.

 

[-Mars-]

What does ease of play really have to do with anything? All Brawl characters are extremely accessible to the point where arguing ease of use probably just means you are bad at the game.

No. There are certain characters that can use simple tactics to shut down the majority of the cast. These simple tactics also don't take much to learn.

But its degrading to character mains when people say their character is extremely easy to play at a competitive level, accessibility is not the same thing as actually learning how to use a character.

There is a large difference between mid-level and high-level. I'm sure there are mid-level players who you can destroy with your olimar just by doing a mixture of camping, low percentage combos and the occassional pivot grab. Olimars weaknesses and shortcomings are only really exploited when it comes to high-level play. Even then his basic game is still relatively straightforward.

It's not degrading or an attack on your skill......some characters are just more basic.

Falco for example.

 

[Fuujin]

-3:
-2:
-1:
2:

 

[Mr. Doom]

He name searches SDI, Doom, Doctor Doom, The incredible Haggar, Serendipity, DMG, low tier, and Jab

I only name-search "Doom," just in case people don't call me Mr. Doom and get it right. And I don't think you can search for a string of three or less characters.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Mr. Doom picks up all the slack for me since I don't namesearch.

 

[Alphicans]

Posts like this are useless. What's wrong with her match-ups? Serious question, I don't know much about zelda.

EDIT: What I can say is that gaw vs zelda is correct. We hard counter zelda. For sure.

 

[Fuujin]

Posts like this are useless. What's wrong with her match-ups? Serious question, I don't know much about zelda.

EDIT: What I can say is that gaw vs zelda is correct. We hard counter zelda. For sure.

All of those are too generous for her, except for wolf.
I never understand why people think she's near even with Dedede.
I'm not sure who gave her -1 for Ike, Sheik or ROB either.
Lucario Fox and TL are worse than -2.
GnW should def be -4.
I very highly doubt Ganon has a harder time with Zelda than he would Link and Falcon.

 

[Steam]

lol fuujin. The zelda's originally wanted a -1 on lucario XD

but Zelda punishes too hard for it to be a -3 :/

 

[Alphicans]

You realize -4 is UNWINNABLE. Reserved for extremely bad match-ups. Falcon vs pika bad, or sheik vs ganon bad. GaW doesn't render zelda useless. -3 is correct. Maybe you're underestimating what a -2 means.

I am the only one who thinks -2 can mean a pretty bad match-up? It's not just "60-40" and the impression I am getting the impression a lot of people are thinking this.

 

[John12346]

I could easily see Zelda/GaW being -3 or -4.

Zelda already doesn't have a reliable approach
She can't camp because of bucket
Zelda dies at like 70 to GaW
And GaW outranges her badly(I think?)

 

[Fuujin]

lol fuujin. The zelda's originally wanted a -1 on lucario XD

but Zelda punishes too hard for it to be a -3 :/

And what Zeldas were there other than DM?

What does she have to punish?
Lucario shouldnt be doing anything thats remotely punishable, it's Zelda wtf is she gonna punish F air, D air, F smash, aura ballz with?
If the Lucario is ******** and leaves himself open then yeah she can punish, if that's the case you might as well give Lucario v Ganon -2 for Ganon.

But srsly what Zelda in their right mind wanted -1 for Lucario???

I could easily see Zelda/GaW being -3 or -4.

Zelda already doesn't have a reliable approach
She can't camp because of bucket
Zelda dies at like 70 to GaW
And GaW outranges her badly(I think?)

She literally has no options against turtle, even if you space it poorly.
Most Zelda's on the Zelda boards(as incompetent as they are) regard that as her worst match up, putting it as -3 and MK and Olimar at -4 makes no sense.

 

[Zankoku]

-4 means you might as well put down the controller because neither your inputs nor any difference in skill are going to make any difference on the outcome of the match.

 

[Fuujin]

-4 means you might as well put down the controller because neither your inputs nor any difference in skill are going to make any difference on the outcome of the match.

Sounds about right for Zelda Vs GnW/MK/Olimar

 

[Alphicans]

I agree that gaw beats zelda harder than MK. Not olimar though, probably the same amount. All 3 match-ups should be -3 imo.

 

[Mr. Doom]

I'm not sure who gave her -1 for Ike, Sheik or ROB either.

Is there a problem with Ike having only a slight advantage over Zelda? What do you think warrants a +2 for Ike?

 

[NeoBatou]

-4 means you might as well put down the controller because neither your inputs nor any difference in skill are going to make any difference on the outcome of the match.

I'd do that against IC's if i was a ganon player or something....that's just an unwinnable match period.

But Zelda vs GaW....not impossible, just really hard. Like CF vs MK.

 

[Fuujin]

Is there a problem with Ike having only a slight advantage over Zelda? What do you think warrants a +2 for Ike?

I can't speak on what warrants +2 for Ike on anything but the Zelda MU but she can't get past his F-air and even when hes not F airing she still has no safe way to approach him.

I'd do that against IC's if i was a ganon player or something....that's just an unwinnable match period.

But Zelda vs GaW....not impossible, just really hard. Like CF vs MK.

Nothing in the game is "impossible".
Do you use either of those characters in competitive play?
What makes you to think its -3?
What slight chance does she have to do...anything against a decent GnW?

 

[NeoBatou]

I can't speak on what warrants +2 for Ike on anything but the Zelda MU but she can't get past his F-air and even when hes not F airing she still has no safe way to approach him.



Nothing in the game is "impossible".
Do you use either of those characters in competitive play?
What makes you to think its -3?
What slight chance does she have to do...anything against a decent GnW?

Even a decent GaW can screw up?

 

[Fuujin]

Even a decent GaW can screw up?

By that logic we should get rid of all -4 match ups, right?

Ganon Vs Ics, even a decent IC can screw up?
Bowser Vs Ics, even a decent IC can screw up?
Falco Vs Ganon even a decent Falco can screw up?

 

[NeoBatou]

By that logic we should get rid of all -4 match ups, right?

Ganon Vs Ics, even a decent IC can screw up?
Bowser Vs Ics, even a decent IC can screw up?
Falco Vs Ganon even a decent Falco can screw up?

Why so serious bro?
Everyone can screw up?

 

[Fuujin]

Try to hint the sarcasm in my messages....just for once.
Even so, anyone can screw up...still wouldn't prove a **** thing.
It's still a bad match up...but not impossible to win right?

Nothing is impossible to win.
-4 is near impossible, like Ankoku said so bad to the point that you might as well not do anything.

 

[NeoBatou]

Nothing is impossible to win.
-4 is near impossible, like Ankoku said so bad to the point that you might as well not do anything.

Ahh ya give up too easily....
Still a bad, bad MU.

 

[Fuujin]

Ahh ya give up too easily....
Still a bad, bad MU.

Being realistic about my character =/= giving up too easily.
Though you're free to explore Zelda's highly complex metagame so I you can figure out why it's -4.
Anytime you discover some sort of viable option she has against him be sure to let me know.

On another note, who did the Zelda MUs on this other than DM?

 

[NeoBatou]

Being realistic about my character =/= giving up too easily.
Though you're free to explore Zelda's highly complex metagame so I you can figure out why it's -4.
Anytime you discover some sort of viable option she has against him be sure to let me know.

On another note, who did the Zelda MUs on this other than DM?

Seriously I'm going to Infinity's house tomorrow to try it out.
I"m gonna play his GaW.
I am just curious bro.
But nah I was just joking with the whole giving up thing...I know you've probably tried it over and over.

 

[-Mars-]

Ummm is -3 like 20-80???

At least that's what I understood from the chart.

-1 = 40-60
-2 = 30-70

A -4 would be like a 10-90 MU.

 

[Chuee]

Ummm is -3 like 20-80???

At least that's what I understood from the chart.

-1 = 40-60
-2 = 30-70

A -4 would be like a 10-90 MU.

0 - 50-50
+1/-1 - 55-45
+2/-2 - 60-40
+3/-3 - 65-35 - 70-30
+4/-4 - 75-35+
I think

 

[Steam]

And what Zeldas were there other than DM?

What does she have to punish?
Lucario shouldnt be doing anything thats remotely punishable, it's Zelda wtf is she gonna punish F air, D air, F smash, aura ballz with?
If the Lucario is ******** and leaves himself open then yeah she can punish, if that's the case you might as well give Lucario v Ganon -2 for Ganon.

But srsly what Zelda in their right mind wanted -1 for Lucario???

no idea.

but apparently she can punish SH stuff with Upsmash and ground stuff with fair.

for Fsmash she can apparently SH over it and fair him.

A Lucario I know said it was a first stock wins match.

edit: don't apply the new ratios to the old. This is separate.

@mars- why on earth would we differentiate between 80-20 and 90-10? while 55-45 and 65-35 could fall into the same category?

though either way don't apply the old numbers to the new...

 

[-Mars-]

I dunno. I don't know what these stupid new numbers mean.

Dunno why we couldn't just keep it like it's always been.

 

[Hylian]

I dunno. I don't know what these stupid new numbers mean.

Dunno why we couldn't just keep it like it's always been.

..Because there's no realistic way to differentiate between 60:30 and 65:35 etc. The numbers are arbitrary and don't actually mean much. Just saying a character has a slight advantage, or a large advantage is more reasonable and logical.