Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Delta-cod]

Celes said he has the CG down. I had it down at one point as well, but a lack of Falco practice caused me to lose it. He said he'll make a video or something explaining the tell for when to begin your grab buffering, which should solve the issue entirely.

 

[Judo777]

Turns out you can buffer yoshis CG which makes it pretty easy if you get used to it. I sugest you guys try it out.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Lol@ 's argueing against 's. Just use vs this guy .

 

[Yikarur]

I wished a video would solve the problem, I do stuff with frame by frame, I have a screenshot of the first possible buffer frame and still have problems and I don't know why ;___;

 

[Delta-cod]

Turns out you can buffer yoshis CG which makes it pretty easy if you get used to it. I sugest you guys try it out.

That's usually how we do it. The problem is timing the buffer well enough. Most of have issues buffering a dash grab out of GR for some reason.

Lol@ 's argueing against 's. Just use vs this guy .

Like tiger?

I wished a video would solve the problem, I do stuff with frame by frame, I have a screenshot of the first possible buffer frame and still have problems and I don't know why ;___;

It would definitely help. Gimme that screen shot. I do the Wario infinite by looking for the tell that Yoshi has in that animation too.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

More importantly yoshi has a CG on Falco, this CG carries falco all the way to the worse spot he can be at which is offstage. And when you release falco offstage you have a guess game which will result in falcos death if he guesses wrong.

Lol tell me about this guessing game.

 

[Delta-cod]

Falco drops like a rock when we GR him offstage. There's a small guessing game where he has to pick from a small pool of recovery options, which are immediately DJ and recover or wait to DJ and recover. He also has to choose whether or not to AD during his DJ. If we pick an option that hits him, he pretty much dies as he has no DJ and has a pretty linear recovery without it.

 

[Judo777]

Lol tell me about this guessing game.

Well after getting GR by Yoshi Falco will drop below the stage and be forced to do a few things. 1 he can just up-B which is a bad option 80% of the time. His other option it to DJ then side B but keep in mind that yoshi has frame advantage on you out of the GR and can be offstage before the DJ comes out. If he guesses where your gonna DJ he can do a nair/dair/fair/egglay/ sweetspot egglay which can all result in you dying.

Essentially its the same guessing game most characters get but its simply that he can gets to be offstage very close to you while you are below the stage. It's pretty dangerous.

 

[Then123]

The charts look fair...
Pika doesn't do a THING against Falco.

 

[Chuee]

The charts look fair...
Pika doesn't do a THING against Falco.

grab --> grab --> grab --> death

 

[Pikabunz]

 

[MJG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PQOkCA3Knk

<3

 

[Pikabunz]

 

[MJG]

 

[Shaya]

ponies.

They should never win.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

there is almost no Yoshi who get the CG down consitently. but with the CG it's noooo way -3

Hello there =D

 

[Tedium]

yoshi v falco -3? get real.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Falco ***** Yoshi.

 

[Alphicans]

^ this so much. I'd agree with -3.

 

[Zzuxon]

This doesn't include MU's against itself.

 

[Coney]

This doesn't include MU's against itself.

...why would it?

 

[Z'zgashi]

So Ganon doesnt lose every match up.

 

[Delta-cod]

Falco doesn't -3 Yoshi.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Imo he does.

 

[Delta-cod]

Your opinion is poorly formed. On what basis is it a -3? The same level as MK?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Imo, Falco is a lower -3, but too difficult to be a -2. MK is more a solid -3 as well as Lucario, and tbh im not sure who's more difficult between those two. Leaning towards Lucario, but still pretty even.

 

[Delta-cod]

Falco isn't too difficult to be a -2. We have a CG that puts him into prime gimping position, survivability, and we're not too slow to get around his camp game. Granted, his camp game is strong against us due to a lack of shield, but it's not like it's impossible. And when we get in, we can do work.

Lucario isn't a -3 once you figure out how to edgeguard him and deal with Dair effectively. Once I figured it out, it became a much easier MU due to gimp potential, and the ability to stop getting hit by Loldairs.

 

[Fuujin]

If Falco really had +3 on Yoshi then several of his current +3s would need to be changed to +4s.

Falco beats Samus, Falcon, etc significantly more than he beats Yoshi.

 

[Steam]

how can yoshi even gimp a Lucario that's paying attention? >_>

 

[Alphicans]

If Falco really had +3 on Yoshi then several of his current +3s would need to be changed to +4s.

Falco beats Samus, Falcon, etc significantly more than he beats Yoshi.

I'd agree with this, although I think falco does just as well vs yoshi as vs samus.

 

[Delta-cod]

I disagree, Yoshi has a reliable way to get Falco offstage and is better at juggling him than Samus. And he's fast enough to actually approach when compared to Samus.

 

[Alphicans]

Samus having a zair and a good UpB OoS to deal with falco's boxing does quite a bit for her. I wouldn't say yoshi has a reliable way of getting falco off stage because yoshi will have a hard time actually getting the grab in this match-up, and even if you do get him offstage, falco won't get gimped since he has an amazing second jump and really quick recovery. I've been gimped by firefly once from a GR, and that was in friendlies. I've learned from that one time, and I can say that the best yoshi can do is punish falco recovering back onto the stage (which is definitely valuable, don't get me wrong).

 

[Delta-cod]

Gimping Falco out of a GR is all a guessing game, but it's still an incredibly useful part of the MU. Yoshi really doesn't have an awful time getting the grab on Falco because it's entirely possible to grab him on landing if you get in during his lasering. It's also not hard to grab him once you set up a juggle, which Yoshi isn't bad at doing at all. Samus may have a Zair and UpB OoS, but what do those lead to? It's just little chip damage that puts Falco off his camp game for a brief moment before he returns to simply outcamping the character with no kill potential. When Yoshi gets in, he has a good boxing game, a threatening grab, AND the ability to keep Falco in the air well with his Usmash and grab, both of which can beat Dair, either directly or through outspacing it.

Edit: HAI SOCKS I SEE YOU LURKING

 

[phi1ny3]

BDACUS = buffered DACUS. I'm assuming you know what buffering is.

Edit: Oh ****, they have different inputs, I forgot XD
DACUS = Flick C-stick down (while running) then pressing up+Z
BDACUS = Flick joystick to input dash, then c-stick up twice. Obviously, this has to be buffered.

That would be why you can't seem to do it with Sheik. Grab for some odd reason takes up more frame time to input, which although is fine for almost every other DACUS, Sheik's is very, very specific, you usually have to end up clawing or setting a button to attack.

 

[infiniteV115]

Ah, I see.
Oh well, I don't even use Sheik.

Btw, am I the only one that thinks Marth:Falco shouldn't be even? I'd say +1 for Marth.

 

[TimboJimbo]

First of all this is so impressive. Well done.

Because no two players are the same you can never really tell the matchups of the characters. All you are comparing are the tricks that are used in the Metagame rather than the characters themselves. As the metagame evolves (which it probably wont do much anymore) these matchups will change.

For example Diddy is in a high tier because of the use of bananas to set up combos and generally annoy. Zero Suit Samus has items at the beginning but the metagame is to only use one of them but if a Diddy player played ZSS and used 2 or 3 of the items (like diddy juggles two bananas) then ZSS will change as a character and become much more campy and matchups will change because of that.

So, all in all, this is more of a matchup of the metagame rather than of the characters themselves.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't know who told you you're supposed to use 1 item with ZSS, but that's not true.

 

[TimboJimbo]

I don't know who told you you're supposed to use 1 item with ZSS, but that's not true.

Ive just read in the general guide for ZSS that people throw 2 of the items away so they can easily keep control of the item so it's not used against them.

 

[infiniteV115]

The guide itself does not say that. Perhaps some people left comments there that said that, but in any case, using one item only is not necessarily "part of her metagame", so to speak. I mean yeah, if you're fighting a character that's used to using items (Diddy/Rob/Peach), they're probably good with them, so you might want to throw off 1 or 2 against them. Same goes for characters with reflectors. Or people you play often and you know your items don't work against them. Everything else if player preference.

I personally keep all 3 items, unless I'm fighting a Falco.

 

[TimboJimbo]

My bad. Kudos to you.

Were getting stuck over semantics here though really. What I was trying to get at was that as the metagame changes and people use different tricks and combos and whatnot these matchup scores will change.