Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Delta-cod]

What Yoshi players do have experience against Link, Zelda and Samus? I think they're all pretty even match-ups.

I've played a couple of these in tournament, and they're DEFINITELY not even. Link doesn't camp us well enough, we can CG him off stage for easy edge guards and damage, and he has trouble killing us.

Zelda can't approach us and we just anti air pretty much everything. Din's Fire is lol. Her recovery is lol.

Samus has the best MU out of the group, with the best camping of the three. Sadly, she can't kill us AT ALL (I've lived to like, 260%), and we can juggle her relatively well because she's floaty. Killing is an issue for both parties, but seeing as our juggle moves are also good killers, and we also have Nair and Fsmash for punishes, we get the upper hand there.

I'd say it's +1 for Samus... :3

Lol.

I might be wrong just because I know the MU so well but I feel like Sheik Yoshi is not even. Yoshi has one very big issue as a character and that is landing on the ground without taking huge amounts of punishment and Sheik exploits that harder than most characters.

Also with her low dash being able to punish egg tosses and her Yoshi not having a great answer to needles I don't think the MU is even.

Yoshi is amazing at landing against almost everyone (MK is probably the only exception, but it's not as bad as most others. Egg Lay is the most amazing landing tool ever. Whoever you're playing is not abusing it well enough.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yoshi eats needles for free, though.

 

[Yikarur]

I heard a lot of thinks but I've never heard that Yoshi has problems with landing :/

and if you live until 260% against Samus then the Samus is definitely doing it wrong.
^ assuming you and Samus are tied in stocks

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi eats needles for free, though.

On landing, I guess. I mean, if we're not being pressured from below we won't just Egg Lay, so we can still just land into shield if we feel needles coming. Needles are good landing punishers on most of everyone, aren't they?

I heard a lot of thinks but I've never heard that Yoshi has problems with landing :/

and if you live until 260% against Samus then the Samus is definitely doing it wrong.

Nah, I just turned on that Deltacod patience and refused to get hit by anything that wasn't like, zair once I hit a certain percent. I had a stock lead so I had no reason to jump in and die.

DAT EDIT.

 

[Yikarur]

On landing, I guess. I mean, if we're not being pressured from below we won't just Egg Lay, so we can still just land into shield if we feel needles coming. Needles are good landing punishers on most of everyone, aren't they?



Nah, I just turned on that Deltacod patience and refused to get hit by anything that wasn't like, zair once I hit a certain percent. I had a stock lead so I had no reason to jump in and die.

yes I know, look at my edit! ;0 xD

 

[SwordAUT]

Samus has the best MU out of the group, with the best camping of the three. Sadly, she can't kill us AT ALL (I've lived to like, 260%)

260%? not against a decent samus player

and we can juggle her relatively well because she's floaty. Killing is an issue for both parties, but seeing as our juggle moves are also good killers, and we also have Nair and Fsmash for punishes, we get the upper hand there.

what do you want to punish with fsmash? i'm not sure, if this is a good punish against samus, and somehow i never felt that samus is juggling so easily... downb, AD and offstage to the edge seemed good enough for me.

Lol.

Lmao.


e/ how can yoshi camp against samus? slice needs to turn his gaymode on xD

 

[Judo777]

Egg lay is NOT an amazing landing tool for anyone that has experience dealing with it. Airborne is the guy that I play the most and he has been saying to AND abusing egg lay wave bounces and retreating egglays to help land all the time. It doesn't matter egg lay is slow and easily reactable to. You can spotdodge and punish on reaction every egg lay thrown out while trying to land everytime.

Egglay is good because people instinctively shield when caught off guard. It it allows him to switch his incredible airspeed instantly. However sheik is more than fast enough to catch any swap in momentum and once you are used to dealing with it and understand oh I can spotdodge egglay and punish it everytime it becomes a much worse option. Egglay has soooo much cool down for a move you will be using so close to people.

Infact I am fairly certain that if sheik spaces correctly she can DACUS yoshi for a retreating egg lay while falling. And she can do the same for a wave bounced one if she is under yoshi can not threatened of getting hit.

One last thing unrelated to the sheik MU directly but not completely is while I think yoshi is better character than people know, yoshi does get a gimmick that people don't avoid when they could. Yoshi is a heavy as hell character that lives a long time. But part of the reason why Yoshi lives so long against other people is because people are stupid and don't know this. Yoshi is NOT heavier than Snake. People kill Snake at reasonable (like 160-180) percents all the time. The reason this is is because people KNOW Snake is heavy and save their kill moves for percents when it will kill him. People stale their kill moves on yoshi all day thinking it will kill him without knowing that it won't. If people understood yoshi better and didn't make these stupid mistakes they would do much better against yoshi. Yoshi SHOULDN'T be living to 260 against ANYONE. Yoshi can however if the players waste their moves that kill. If sheik doesn't nair yoshi until 160-170 yoshi WILL die everytime. Just food for thought.

 

[Delta-cod]

260%? not against a decent samus player

Stock lead. What's she approaching me to kill me with? zair? I'll eat zairs for weeks while getting in that chip damage, lol.

what do you want to punish with fsmash? i'm not sure, if this is a good punish against samus, and somehow i never felt that samus is juggling so easily... downb, AD and offstage to the edge seemed good enough for me.

Completely dependent on what we dodge and how. If I were to, say, spotdodge a dtilt or an Fsmash or something, I'm confident I could Fsmash it. Or a whiffed Up B.

Samus is SO floaty and we're so fast in the air. We can space Uair beneath her without punishment, and even if she air dodges it we can hit with another. I've done it. And if you're going to the ledge, I'm perfectly okay with that. I don't mind you racking up those ledge grabs and putting yourself in a bad spot. Sounds like a win to me.

Lmao.

Rofl.

 

[SwordAUT]

Stock lead. What's she approaching me to kill me with? zair? I'll eat zairs for weeks while getting in that chip damage, lol.

zair, missiles, ftilt, sometimes fair

Completely dependent on what we dodge and how. If I were to, say, spotdodge a dtilt or an Fsmash or something, I'm confident I could Fsmash it. Or a whiffed Up B.

I use dtilt and fsmash very rarely, my main kill move is probably utilt besides ftilt and bair. e/ dtilt and bair, oops

Samus is SO floaty and we're so fast in the air. We can space Uair beneath her without punishment, and even if she air dodges it we can hit with another. I've done it. And if you're going to the ledge, I'm perfectly okay with that. I don't mind you racking up those ledge grabs and putting yourself in a bad spot. Sounds like a win to me.

you can't time out samus anyways, can you? and samus doesn't need to go onstage to make some damage. i've always said that the ledge is her favourite place

Rofl.

mdr?

 

[OverLade]

Grim Tuesday is Attila? Interesting.

 

[Delta-cod]

zair, missiles, ftilt, sometimes fair

Zair doesn't kill, Missile aren't hard for us to dodge, ftilt is beat out by pivot grab, Fair won't kill.

I use dtilt and fsmash very rarely, my main kill move is probably utilt besides ftilt and bair.

utilt is slow too. We can't Fsmash out of it, but it's not really hard to deal with unless we're caught airdodging into you or something that requires a pretty silly mistake. Bair hits high and we anti air amazingly anyways, so it's not going to kill us if we're playing keep away regardless.

you can't time out samus anyways, can you? and samus doesn't need to go onstage to make some damage. i've always said that the ledge is her favourite place

Yes we can. I almost have, except for the part where Samus died at the end.

If you camp the ledge, I will time you out if I'm 2 stocks down. Dat free LGL win.

 

[SwordAUT]

how can you time out samus? staying on the ledge? how? either you play offensively and get some damage or defensively and let samus get onstage.
and @the first quote... i was talking about approaches, not about kill moves^^ and utilt is underrated somehow, i rarely miss one.

e/ btw, you're probably right. i've never played a defensive yoshi.

 

[Kuro~]

Grim Tuesday is Attila? Interesting.

Not sure if serious...

 

[Delta-cod]

Egg lay is NOT an amazing landing tool for anyone that has experience dealing with it. Airborne is the guy that I play the most and he has been saying to AND abusing egg lay wave bounces and retreating egglays to help land all the time. It doesn't matter egg lay is slow and easily reactable to. You can spotdodge and punish on reaction every egg lay thrown out while trying to land everytime.

Egg lay has almost no end lag. When you spotdodge a retreating egg lay, I am moving out of range, halting your momentum AND I have almost no lag to speak of. You say you can spotdodge it on reaction. Everything is beatable on reaction if you know it's coming. But what if I don't Egg Lay? What if I Bair you instead? Where's your spotdodge now? Uh oh, juggling multiple options now. Gotta think, what if he does this or that? Oh, maybe he's gonna Ba- NO HE EGG LAYED GOTTA TRY AND PUNISH.

Be realistic.

Egglay is good because people instinctively shield when caught off guard. It it allows him to switch his incredible airspeed instantly. However sheik is more than fast enough to catch any swap in momentum and once you are used to dealing with it and understand oh I can spotdodge egglay and punish it everytime it becomes a much worse option. Egglay has soooo much cool down for a move you will be using so close to people.

Egg lay is good because people instinctively shield against airborne opponents. It's also a good move because of it's momentum changing properties, it's range, and it's LOW COOL DOWN. Where are you getting this "it's a laggy move" idea from? I've DJCEL'd at people, had them spotdodged, and PUNISHED THE SPOTDODGE. I couldn't do that if it was laggy. And who says I'm using it close to you? I'm using it to block options. I'm retreating with it. Is Air spacing it at all?

You're losing credibility with me here.

Infact I am fairly certain that if sheik spaces correctly she can DACUS yoshi for a retreating egg lay while falling. And she can do the same for a wave bounced one if she is under yoshi can not threatened of getting hit.

Uh, no she can't. And if she can, the timing would have to be perfect. Good luck timing something frame tight when I have an incredibly large window with which to egg lay, if I choose to at all.

One last thing unrelated to the sheik MU directly but not completely is while I think yoshi is better character than people know, yoshi does get a gimmick that people don't avoid when they could. Yoshi is a heavy as hell character that lives a long time. But part of the reason why Yoshi lives so long against other people is because people are stupid and don't know this. Yoshi is NOT heavier than Snake. People kill Snake at reasonable (like 160-180) percents all the time. The reason this is is because people KNOW Snake is heavy and save their kill moves for percents when it will kill him. People stale their kill moves on yoshi all day thinking it will kill him without knowing that it won't. If people understood yoshi better and didn't make these stupid mistakes they would do much better against yoshi. Yoshi SHOULDN'T be living to 260 against ANYONE. Yoshi can however if the players waste their moves that kill. If sheik doesn't nair yoshi until 160-170 yoshi WILL die everytime. Just food for thought.

Samus can't kill, especially when approaching. 260%.

how can you time out samus? staying on the ledge? how? either you play offensively and get some damage or defensively and let samus get onstage.
and @the first quote... i was talking about approaches, not about kill moves^^ and utilt is underrated somehow, i rarely miss one.

If I get a stock lead or a large percent lead, I can run away from Samus well. It's not really that hard. If you're camping the ledge and hit the LGL, I will just run away and not bother fighting because you'll lose at time regardless.

Samus's ledge game doesn't really have that many options, either. I don't really need to worry about waiting around the ledge and forcing you to grab it some more while dealing with Zair or a few missiles, lol.

As for the quote... got me there. XD Utilt is usually unexpected, but I don't think I've ever died to it. I usually get hit by it at low percents when I airdodge stupidly or something.

e/ btw, you're probably right. i've never played a defensive yoshi.

I'm one of a kind.

 

[Kuro~]

Sheik has a good buffer dacus...which means she can EASILY do it out of spotdodge.

 

[Delta-cod]

But spotdodges last longer than the cooldown on Egg Lay so it doesn't matter.

 

[Attila_]

Grim Tuesday is Attila? Interesting.

how could you confuse me with someone who mains jigglypuff?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Grim Tuesday is Attila? Interesting.

Obviously.

Attila, $2 Snake/Jigglypuff MM at BAM2K11?

 

[Judo777]

Egg lay has 16 frames of startup, is out for 4 frames and has 19 frame of cooldown. How is that hard to punish? Retreating bair isn't safe against sheik either. Infact very few things in the game are safe on sheiks shield.

So if I spot dodge on the EARLIEST FRAME (giving me the lest amount of time to punish) that means I have 20 frame of cool down giving me -1 frame advantage. Now considering I have the ability to react 16 frames in advance if I perfectly time a spotdodge I will be invincible frame 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 of my spotdodge with 5 frames of cool down to ur 19. So that's a net of 14 frame advantage on ur egglay. Given 1 frame for input (assuming I even have to never sure on that 1) that gives me +13 frame advantage. What frame does sheiks DACUS come out on? Oh yea usmash is frame 12 and I believe the 1 input frame already takes in account the frame required to cancel DA. And you also better hope you don't egg lay too soon an get landing lag too or else the window gets 3 frame bigger.

So yes we can DACUS yoshi from retreating egg lay. Even if my calculations are somehow wrong we can increase that by a few frames by buffering it. More so DA is easy and we can do that every time.

 

[Attila_]

Obviously.

Attila, $2 Snake/Jigglypuff MM at BAM2K11?

How about falcon/jiggs?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'll do that too.

 

[Delta-cod]

Egg lay has 16 frames of startup, is out for 4 frames and has 19 frame of cooldown. How is that hard to punish? Retreating bair isn't safe against sheik either. Infact very few things in the game are safe on sheiks shield.

Because in order to dodge Egg Lay, you have to spot dodge. Spot dodges last longer than the cooldown of the move. It's not like getting shield advantage.

And I wouldn't retreat the Bair, I'd Bair at you. It's a mixup to catch people chasing you on the ground who are used to you picking defensive options. Of course it's not safe on shield. You're not getting a great punish out of it anyways.

So if I spot dodge on the EARLIEST FRAME (giving me the lest amount of time to punish) that means I have 20 frame of cool down giving me -1 frame advantage. Now considering I have the ability to react 16 frames in advance if I perfectly time a spotdodge I will be invincible frame 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 of my spotdodge with 5 frames of cool down to ur 19. So that's a net of 14 frame advantage on ur egglay. Given 1 frame for input (assuming I even have to never sure on that 1) that gives me +13 frame advantage. What frame does sheiks DACUS come out on? Oh yea usmash is frame 12 and I believe the 1 input frame already takes in account the frame required to cancel DA. And you also better hope you don't egg lay too soon an get landing lag too or else the window gets 3 frame bigger.

So what you're basically saying is, is that if you're perfect, you have an incredibly small window with which to hit me with a Buffered Dacus. This is also not taking into account the fact that you must cover distance with it, which lessens the immediate frame advantage of the initial hitbox coming out.

So, sure. Sheik can Buffered DACUS Yoshi's Egg Lay if the player is nearly perfect. Possibly. Yoshi might shield it anyways.

Cool story bro. Can we get some realistic, non frame perfect discussion in here? That's like saying "Well I can beat every one of MK's options if I space and time the one tool I have to beat the specific option perfectly even though he has several options in this situation!"

So yes we can DACUS yoshi from retreating egg lay. Even if my calculations are somehow wrong we can increase that by a few frames by buffering it. More so DA is easy and we can do that every time.

Dash Attack isn't even that great. You're still assuming you're being perfect about making reads too.

 

[Judo777]

Because in order to dodge Egg Lay, you have to spot dodge. Spot dodges last longer than the cooldown of the move. It's not like getting shield advantage.

And I wouldn't retreat the Bair, I'd Bair at you. It's a mixup to catch people chasing you on the ground who are used to you picking defensive options. Of course it's not safe on shield. You're not getting a great punish out of it anyways.



So what you're basically saying is, is that if you're perfect, you have an incredibly small window with which to hit me with a Buffered Dacus. This is also not taking into account the fact that you must cover distance with it, which lessens the immediate frame advantage of the initial hitbox coming out.

So, sure. Sheik can Buffered DACUS Yoshi's Egg Lay if the player is nearly perfect. Possibly. Yoshi might shield it anyways.

Cool story bro. Can we get some realistic, non frame perfect discussion in here? That's like saying "Well I can beat every one of MK's options if I space and time the one tool I have to beat the specific option perfectly even though he has several options in this situation!"



Dash Attack isn't even that great. You're still assuming you're being perfect about making reads too.

Ok firstly I think your misunderstanding my point. I'll explain it in a second. Yes sheik can DACUS yoshi out of egglay AND it doesn't have to buffered. And of course DACUS can make up the distance. You realize that sheik's DACUS covers like half the length of FD almost right? You realize that the first available frame (aka the tipper hitbox) hits on frame 12 right? Meaning it takes no more frame to DACUS than it does to usmash in place (possible 1 frame exception for canceling the DA). DACUS is the exact same thing as usmashing its just moving it half the distance of FD (about).

DA is a great option to hit yoshi with (and most characters for that matter). It does 7% and puts him in the exact same spot, with less time to think, and gives him less time to establish a good landing trajectory since it only pops him up a little bit.

But my point was NOT that we will be DACUSing yoshi out of whiffed egglays (because we very rarely will ever do that, I don't even think I've done it more than 3 times). My point was that if sheik can hit yoshi with a NON frame perfect DACUS (since to my knowledge there was like 3 frames that we are on the fence about or are extra for sheik) we can CERTAINLY hit with a more reasonable move like out frame 6 (maybe 7 there has been some recent dispute) DA or even easier Needles for 18%.

More so my point was that ur egg lay is not as safe as you think. In fact its 19 frames unsafe. Even more so it is certainly not unreasonable for someone to time a spotdodge to have maybe +10 frame advantage. It very reasonable to assume that. If you are used to playing yoshi and knowing of that option you have 16 frames to prepare for your best timing and maybe be off by 4 frames or so. That's not impractical at all. Fox could kill yoshi at 105% for an egglay like that.

Sheik just has the ability to stay at the spot where she can not be NEAR as threatened by egglay and also remain not very hittable by a bair (its typically right under him as yoshi is falling). Sheik also has a very low dash and crouch to aid in not getting hit by dropping aerials and egglays. I understand you could bair me but bair is also not a particularly fast aerial. You have to commit to it a little early because it come out on frame 10. If I shield it i get a really big punish, if I get hit then I eat maybe 6% cause ur only gonna hit a standing sheik with 1 hit and you can't combo out of anything but a third hit with a normal trajectory.

Enough theory brawl tho. Egglay is certainly a good option for Yoshi. Its good because it heavily increases his options while attempting to land (the reason I have been saying for like 2 years its yoshis best move) but its still not a stellar option. It definitely has very punishable shortcomings is all I'm saying.

Delta man I'm not trying to be hostile or anything like that man I honestly think your the best yoshi from watching your matches. You play yoshi exactly the way i think he should be played. I'm just suggesting to look at it from my angle cause I know a hefty amount about yoshi also.

 

[infiniteV115]

Whoa whoa whoa
Sheik has a regular DACUS AND a BDACUS?
I thought she only had a BDACUS (I could never do a normal DACUS with her XD)

 

[Judo777]

Whoa whoa whoa
Sheik has a regular DACUS AND a BDACUS?
I thought she only had a BDACUS (I could never do a normal DACUS with her XD)

I think technically everyone has both its just BDACUS might be the only way for most anyone to actually execute their characters. But yes Sheik has both that go essentially the same distance. In fact most sheik players (that I know of) only DACUS since its more versatile than BDACUS. DACUS doesn't require you to lag.

 

[Ghostbone]

stuff about SA being bad

Sigh.......
Falcon ditto MM? (at BAM if I go or something)

 

[OverLade]

how could you confuse me with someone who mains jigglypuff?

That's what I meant. I just typed the wrong name out of not paying attention

 

[Scatz]

Aw yeah shawty. Brawlcrafting up in this *****.

 

[DeLux]

I think technically everyone has both its just BDACUS might be the only way for most anyone to actually execute their characters. But yes Sheik has both that go essentially the same distance. In fact most sheik players (that I know of) only DACUS since its more versatile than BDACUS. DACUS doesn't require you to lag.

It sort of depends on how you define versatile Judo.

The primary difference between a DACUS and BDACUS would be ease in achieving optimum frame advantage.

For example, a frame perfect DACUS compared to a BDACUS takes the same amount of frames for a hitbox to come out assuming the inputs are already made.

However, actually inputting a DACUS frame perfect on the first action frame of a previously executed action (like landing lag after shooting an auto cancelled laser with falco) without a frame or two of delay is actually very difficult, so it would decrease the amount of frame advantage you would get for every frame you input after the first action frame. BDACUS ensures you get optimum frame advantage as well as gives you 10 frames to make your inputs.

Optimum Frame Advantage in some situations is much more versatile, especially in a situation where you've already committed to an option.

 

[Judo777]

It sort of depends on how you define versatile Judo.

The primary difference between a DACUS and BDACUS would be ease in achieving optimum frame advantage.

For example, a frame perfect DACUS compared to a BDACUS takes the same amount of frames for a hitbox to come out assuming the inputs are already made.

However, actually inputting a DACUS frame perfect on the first action frame of a previously executed action (like landing lag after shooting an auto cancelled laser with falco) without a frame or two of delay is actually very difficult, so it would decrease the amount of frame advantage you would get for every frame you input after the first action frame. BDACUS ensures you get optimum frame advantage as well as gives you 10 frames to make your inputs.

Optimum Frame Advantage in some situations is much more versatile, especially in a situation where you've already committed to an option.

No no no this is actually exactly what I meant. Both are useful. Theoretically DACUS is better in every way and we don't have to buffer it. But realistically BDACUS is nice too.

I guess the other thing is that sheiks learned DACUS before we knew about BDACUS.

 

[Baker]

Can someone explain to me the difference between a BDACUS and a DACUS?

 

[Z'zgashi]

I just spammed Egglay against Zigsta and won, Of course he did go R.O.B. game 2.
But yeah, Bowser gets ***** by Yoshi pretty hard...

Even with explanations I still don't approve of this... Especially Zelda being Even.

Yoshi
-3:
-2:
-1:
+0:
+1:
+2:
+3:

MK is -3 for sure, you're overrating us in that MU. Falco is still -3 imo, but he's the lowest of all the -3's I had and I dont have a huge problem saying -2. GW is prob more a bad MU for me, so I have no problem with -1. Fox is just as difficult as Wolf is, a def -2. Zelda is very much an even MU, I play a decent Zelda main all the time, trust me on this. The rest isnt that different aside from a few opinion flips.

What Yoshi players do have experience against Link, Zelda and Samus? I think they're all pretty even match-ups.

I do for Link/Zelda, played multiple Samus', but never consistently any good ones and none that are Noid/Xyro status or anything. (Still think its even though)

As for Zelda, I play Tsuteto a ton (the Zelda boards wanted to put him as a top Zelda, but Tsu said he's too inactive, which is kinda true as he's never open for tournaments. I play him at smashfests a lot as he just happens to be open for most of those). With that said, even is perfect, we dont have any advantage on her, I dont see where people get this idea that we beat her...

As for Link, here's the deal here. It would probably be 0/-1 if his recovery wasnt so bad. Consider the fact that our CG forces him to DJ to recover, the fact that our DJ can go through his up b and then we can hit him out of it for free, and the fact that we close space easily on him as nair beats his projectiles PLUS our pivot grab beats his sword's range and leads to the recovery situation, and its just that we can gimp him even easier than most.

well judging from the second match, it doesn't look very legit as a MU-Prove because he was clearly the worse player overall. I really think +2 is enough if you play a good Bowser who knows what he is doing :/
I'll play the MU more in the future to get a better judgement ;0!

Z you sound like a lot of theory, I've never experienced the Falco MU like that extreme D:

King Kong is considered the best Bowser player and he also had never used Pit in tournament ever before that match.

Second, I play Falco a ton. One of the best in my state uses Falco, X uses Falco a ton in seriouslies, and Ive played SK92 on multiple occasions, so I can say that his lasers shut us down badly.

I'd say it's +1 for Samus... :3

I dont think so.

Yeah, Bowser-Yoshi MU is garbs.

^ This.

I might be wrong just because I know the MU so well but I feel like Sheik Yoshi is not even. Yoshi has one very big issue as a character and that is landing on the ground without taking huge amounts of punishment and Sheik exploits that harder than most characters.

Also with her low dash being able to punish egg tosses and her Yoshi not having a great answer to needles I don't think the MU is even.

Mars thinks Yoshi beats Sheik.

Yoshi eats needles for free, though.

So does everyone else... And our mixups for landing and our airspeed make us harder to hit then at least half the cast. Probably even at least 3/4ths.

 

[Judo777]

MK is -3 for sure, you're overrating us in that MU. Falco is still -3 imo, but he's the lowest of all the -3's I had and I dont have a huge problem saying -2. GW is prob more a bad MU for me, so I have no problem with -1. Fox is just as difficult as Wolf is, a def -2. Zelda is very much an even MU, I play a decent Zelda main all the time, trust me on this. The rest isnt that different aside from a few opinion flips.



I do for Link/Zelda, played multiple Samus', but never consistently any good ones and none that are Noid/Xyro status or anything. (Still think its even though)

As for Zelda, I play Tsuteto a ton (the Zelda boards wanted to put him as a top Zelda, but Tsu said he's too inactive, which is kinda true as he's never open for tournaments. I play him at smashfests a lot as he just happens to be open for most of those). With that said, even is perfect, we dont have any advantage on her, I dont see where people get this idea that we beat her...

As for Link, here's the deal here. It would probably be 0/-1 if his recovery wasnt so bad. Consider the fact that our CG forces him to DJ to recover, the fact that our DJ can go through his up b and then we can hit him out of it for free, and the fact that we close space easily on him as nair beats his projectiles PLUS our pivot grab beats his sword's range and leads to the recovery situation, and its just that we can gimp him even easier than most.



King Kong is considered the best Bowser player and he also had never used Pit in tournament ever before that match.

Second, I play Falco a ton. One of the best in my state uses Falco, X uses Falco a ton in seriouslies, and Ive played SK92 on multiple occasions, so I can say that his lasers shut us down badly.



I dont think so.



^ This.



Mars thinks Yoshi beats Sheik.



So does everyone else... And our mixups for landing and our airspeed make us harder to hit then at least half the cast. Probably even at least 3/4ths.

I might be wrong but I can't see how Mars has very much Yoshi experience.

Also no every character doesn't eat needles for free lol. In fact alot of characters don't

 

[Z'zgashi]

He plays me all the time, ALL THE TIME. But yeah, I dont agree, I think its even.

 

[infiniteV115]

Can someone explain to me the difference between a BDACUS and a DACUS?

BDACUS = buffered DACUS. I'm assuming you know what buffering is.

Edit: Oh ****, they have different inputs, I forgot XD
DACUS = Flick C-stick down (while running) then pressing up+Z
BDACUS = Flick joystick to input dash, then c-stick up twice. Obviously, this has to be buffered.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

His lasers stop all of our approach options and keep him safe against almost everything we can do. We dont have a shield to use as an approach, so really, we cant do much when Falco just sits back and camps. We cant throw eggs back as lasers beat them out and come out much faster, and while we could camp from the ledge, the LGL limits us from this, not to mention Falco can literally just walk to the other side of the stage where the eggs cant reach

If you time your eggs properly they still come out and falcos lazer hits you stopping the endlag letting you move up more. He can't just casually throw out lazers like that. Also if he goes to the other side of the stage that just means he isn't pressuring us on the ledge. Always nice.

then when we get up to close in, commence with the laser spam.

So lazer locks us down at close range now too?

If we manage to get up close at low damage, his jab beats out our entire close game and has a CG to tack on massive damage. He also has frame advantage with lasers and tons of kill power to punish any mistakes we make.

The CG isn't a constant threat. Stay out of Grab range. At loww%'s His Frame Advantage only really helps if he perfectly Auto cancels it. And No matter how good his frame advantage is, you should NEVER get hit by a kill move because of it.

Diddy has a nice poking game with his titls and aerials when you add in the naners.

Explain? Not sure how his poke game is relevant to us lol.

I dont think I need to explain this one really. Yoshi and Pika are generally similar in a lot of ways, but Pika just does everything slightly better. His CG does a lot of free damage if he catches us off guard, pika's jolts are harder to deal with than eggs (while we can jab them and such, they also are more spammable and harder to punish), he has more kill power, his down b frame traps punish hard, and he is generally a safer character.

Everything? Also jolts aren't that bad lol. And if we throw an egg at the same time he jolts, We're able to move before him. His jolts are just active for like 90+ frames.

Peach - Generally pretty even, but Peach's float when used right puts her in positions that force us to lose ground or shield and she can control the spacing a little better than we can.

What positions are those?

ROB - ROB is also generally even, he just has better spacing tools with fair and ftilt, he has a better camping game, and the gyro when used right has really nice stage control.

You were supposed to do a ROB writeup like a year ago, just sayin.

-IC stuff-

We just wreck IC's. Numbering it just depends on how much weight you give their CG. You could easily call it anything from -1 to +2 depending on how you theorycraft

 

[Judo777]

More importantly yoshi has a CG on Falco, this CG carries falco all the way to the worse spot he can be at which is offstage. And when you release falco offstage you have a guess game which will result in falcos death if he guesses wrong.

 

[Kuro~]

Snake has a chaingrab on falco

 

[DJ Arcatek]

I wouldn't say Yoshi vs Falco is -3 >__>

I'd say it's +1 Falco. +2 at it's worst.

 

[Yikarur]

there is almost no Yoshi who get the CG down consitently. but with the CG it's noooo way -3