Official "Ask Snakeee Stuff... about Stuff" Thread

[Snakeee]

So, I have a problem with my playing recently, in that I often don't feel I have the confidence to approach. This leads to quite a lot of paralyser shots and over B spam :<

I was wondering if you ever had a similar problem, and if so how you got around it?

I have had that problem for a long time, and hadn't truly gotten completely past it until recently. It's a difficult thing to get past, and it'll take a while. You mainly have to start picking up on the mix ups ZSS can do for the ground game, which actually involves a lot of jumping around. Fast fall up airs, b-airs, all of the tilts, dash attacks, etc. You also have to figure out what works against each character. I'm being vague, but this isn't a simple question to answer...

 

[The Filth]

I have had that problem for a long time, and hadn't truly gotten completely past it until recently. It's a difficult thing to get past, and it'll take a while. You mainly have to start picking up on the mix ups ZSS can do for the ground game, which actually involves a lot of jumping around. Fast fall up airs, b-airs, all of the tilts, dash attacks, etc. You also have to figure out what works against each character. I'm being vague, but this isn't a simple question to answer...

Don't worry, I understand what you mean, and was afraid you'd say something like that =]

My main problem is I sort of duo her with Snake. Comparatively playing snake feels so much... well I suppose the word is "safer". Still, it seems it's just more experience that I need with her. I sort of lost faith slightly after seeing my snake go from strength to strength, but i'll just have to knuckle down with it.

On the note of fast falling Uairs and Bairs, I often find that these are quite tricky to nail on the smaller characters like Olimar and Diddy, do you still recommend using them against these guys?

 

[Snakeee]

Don't worry, I understand what you mean, and was afraid you'd say something like that =]

My main problem is I sort of duo her with Snake. Comparatively playing snake feels so much... well I suppose the word is "safer". Still, it seems it's just more experience that I need with her. I sort of lost faith slightly after seeing my snake go from strength to strength, but i'll just have to knuckle down with it.

On the note of fast falling Uairs and Bairs, I often find that these are quite tricky to nail on the smaller characters like Olimar and Diddy, do you still recommend using them against these guys?

I wouldn't give up on ZSS if you like playing as her. She's a completely viable character just takes more time than most others. Yes, I recommend them on those characters, but you have to be much more careful in your approach with them.

 

[noradseven]

Don't worry, I understand what you mean, and was afraid you'd say something like that =]

My main problem is I sort of duo her with Snake. Comparatively playing snake feels so much... well I suppose the word is "safer". Still, it seems it's just more experience that I need with her. I sort of lost faith slightly after seeing my snake go from strength to strength, but i'll just have to knuckle down with it.

On the note of fast falling Uairs and Bairs, I often find that these are quite tricky to nail on the smaller characters like Olimar and Diddy, do you still recommend using them against these guys?

YES...YES AND MORE YES, and olimar and diddy are pretty easy hits after a while practice hitting them against a ducking kirby :D, now thats hard to get down.

Here is some advice about it, if you don't take risks you will lose , a good player will tear you apart because they know that you arn't going to take risks thus are able to eliminate all but a couple of options for you resulting in your defeat, this isn't to say charge in blindly, but just go in their and fight, have confidence, if you get hit so what its just a game, even if its a big tourney match, just deal with it.

I find the best way if I ever want to change the way I play, is to STOP playing brawl for a week or two, whenever I think about brawl in the meantime think about you playing aggressive, play the game again and whalaha more aggressive, now you just need practice with it.

 

[The Filth]

I wouldn't give up on ZSS if you like playing as her. She's a completely viable character just takes more time than most others. Yes, I recommend them on those characters, but you have to be much more careful in your approach with them.

Hehe I couldn't stop playing her if I tried, there's perverse pleasure in Dash attack - Utilt - Up B - double Dsmash - Grab - Aerial string.

Surprising what a little lack of DI can do to the opponent =]

But seriously, thanks for the advice. there's only 2 notable zero suits in england right now as far as I know, and I intend to be the 3rd :D

Edit: Also about the risk thing. That's been one thing holding me back, I normally get disheartened if the opponent hits me too much, despite percentages or stocks. I suppose i'm just going to have to man up, thanks for helping me realise it :3

 

[noradseven]

Dash attack - Utilt - Up B - double Dsmash - Grab - Aerial string.

Ya this is all that works for me nowadays.

That and dash attack dash attack dash attack d-tilt :D

 

[The Filth]

I wish this still worked .

Hehe naturally it's very rare, but when I land it it's the psychological side which seems to hurt them more than anything else.

That's the root of why I love playing her so much, ******** stun combos are really demoralising =]

 

[Snakeee]

Even if they miss the tech on Up B they have time to roll away or get up attack you before a d-smash. The best things to go for after that are up tilt (covers the most area for DI, tech chase dash attack (probably the best option and can lead to more of these), or d-tilt. If the opponent is being dragged onto a platform then you can pillar them nicely with up air and more Up B if you play a decent guessing game. With a platform at low percents you can also go for a chain of Up B's while moving to where they DI/tech

 

[slowpoketales]

If I'm going to a tourney and I want to get better with ZSS should I just go all Zero Suit and accept the fact that I probably won't make it far, or should I just use my old mains and keep her in friendlies until I'm more comfortable ?

I honestly am more interested in ZSS at this point than anyone else, is it a good idea just for the experience ?

 

[DeliciousCake]

James Sparrow is just too cool for you. *shrug*

Personally I think James is by far the coolest ZSS player.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Okay, first off, as a Pit mainer, I'd like to introduce Pit's bad matchups, and their ratios, or at least IMO:

G&W (35:65): Screw his turtle and priorities
Marth (40:60): Range, speed, tippers
Wario (40:60): He tends to be hard to hit, and is quite quick for a heavyweight, hard to kill
Snake (45:55): Snake's OP'd Tilts, KOs Pit easily, while Pit is bad at KOing and Snake's weight is just a lot.
Olimar (40:60): Side-B spam can force us to approach, and his grabbing is rather annoying
MK (40:60): He's broken, but he's simply a common sight, not as hard as G&W
Kirby (45:55): He's small, hard to hit, and can gimp a Pit somewhat easily via B-air spam

Others: These are practically the ones that round up to being even with Pit the most.
TL (from 45:55 TL to even): TL is one of the very few chars that can outcamp Pit, and his Z-air has priority.
D3 (around even): His annoying range and CGs, B-air spam can annoy Pit and gimp him too.
Falco (from 45:55 to even): If it wasnt for the CG-to-spike thing and maybe not so much the blasters.

The problem with Pit for the most part is that his melee range is bad, making it hard for him to approach long-ranged chars. I realize my other secondaries, which are Bowser, Wario, DK, and Wolf, are all heavyweights, but have limits in their recoveries, and easy to hit, mostly Bowser.

Why I chose to try out ZSS:
-She seems to do well against G&W, which is Pit's worst matchup, to me.
-I would like to have a Female char in my team, and since Zelda really is kinda limited, and vulnerable during her recovery, ZSS was the next in line.
-She'd probably be my only speed char, besides my alternate Fox

So that's where I thought about trying ZSS out, with her long range, and speed. So here are my questions.

1: Are there any basic ZSS follow-ups I can use, besides the Dash attack to U-tilt at low %s?
2: What basic strategies does ZSS have that i can try to do, in general?
3: Do u think ZSS would make a decent secondary for Pit?
4: Though this would be hard to answer, but how well do u think a Pit/ZSS 2v2 team would do overall?

Sorry for the long intro, but this is probably my first time being specifically here on these boards.
If i dont respond quick enough, u can get me on AIB, as Admiral Pit, or something.

 

[sasook]

Here is some advice about it, if you don't take risks you will lose , a good player will tear you apart because they know that you arn't going to take risks thus are able to eliminate all but a couple of options for you resulting in your defeat, this isn't to say charge in blindly, but just go in their and fight, have confidence, if you get hit so what its just a game, even if its a big tourney match, just deal with it.

I find the best way if I ever want to change the way I play, is to STOP playing brawl for a week or two, whenever I think about brawl in the meantime think about you playing aggressive, play the game again and whalaha more aggressive, now you just need practice with it.

Wait wait wait, this is coming from the guy who usually says playing defensively and spamming sideb's is the way to go?

O_o

 

[noradseven]

Wait wait wait, this is coming from the guy who usually says playing defensively and spamming sideb's is the way to go?

O_o

The lol spam side Bs comments are often a joke, however it works well in a few matches.

But yeah I play defensive, side B spam != defensive.

Its alot more jumping, and running away, that over Bs

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Would it be a good idea to use Olimar as a doubles partner, or are there much better options?

 

[Snakeee]

Okay, first off, as a Pit mainer, I'd like to introduce Pit's bad matchups, and their ratios, or at least IMO:

G&W (35:65): Screw his turtle and priorities
Marth (40:60): Range, speed, tippers
Wario (40:60): He tends to be hard to hit, and is quite quick for a heavyweight, hard to kill
Snake (45:55): Snake's OP'd Tilts, KOs Pit easily, while Pit is bad at KOing and Snake's weight is just a lot.
Olimar (40:60): Side-B spam can force us to approach, and his grabbing is rather annoying
MK (40:60): He's broken, but he's simply a common sight, not as hard as G&W
Kirby (45:55): He's small, hard to hit, and can gimp a Pit somewhat easily via B-air spam

Others: These are practically the ones that round up to being even with Pit the most.
TL (from 45:55 TL to even): TL is one of the very few chars that can outcamp Pit, and his Z-air has priority.
D3 (around even): His annoying range and CGs, B-air spam can annoy Pit and gimp him too.
Falco (from 45:55 to even): If it wasnt for the CG-to-spike thing and maybe not so much the blasters.

The problem with Pit for the most part is that his melee range is bad, making it hard for him to approach long-ranged chars. I realize my other secondaries, which are Bowser, Wario, DK, and Wolf, are all heavyweights, but have limits in their recoveries, and easy to hit, mostly Bowser.

Why I chose to try out ZSS:
-She seems to do well against G&W, which is Pit's worst matchup, to me.
-I would like to have a Female char in my team, and since Zelda really is kinda limited, and vulnerable during her recovery, ZSS was the next in line.
-She'd probably be my only speed char, besides my alternate Fox

So that's where I thought about trying ZSS out, with her long range, and speed. So here are my questions.

1: Are there any basic ZSS follow-ups I can use, besides the Dash attack to U-tilt at low %s?
2: What basic strategies does ZSS have that i can try to do, in general?
3: Do u think ZSS would make a decent secondary for Pit?
4: Though this would be hard to answer, but how well do u think a Pit/ZSS 2v2 team would do overall?

Sorry for the long intro, but this is probably my first time being specifically here on these boards.
If i dont respond quick enough, u can get me on AIB, as Admiral Pit, or something.

G&W (35:65): Screw his turtle and priorities
ZSS is possibly G&W's toughest match up (which isn't saying all that much actually).
Marth (40:60): Range, speed, tippers
I say it's even
Wario (40:60): He tends to be hard to hit, and is quite quick for a heavyweight, hard to kill
I now would say 55/45 Wario but def better than it is for Pit
Snake (45:55): Snake's OP'd Tilts, KOs Pit easily, while Pit is bad at KOing and Snake's weight is just a lot.
At least even
Olimar (40:60): Side-B spam can force us to approach, and his grabbing is rather annoying
55/45 ZSS or 60/40
MK (40:60): He's broken, but he's simply a common sight, not as hard as G&W
55/45 Meta or....even?
Kirby (45:55): He's small, hard to hit, and can gimp a Pit somewhat easily via B-air spam
60/40 ZSS

TL is a weird match up, but ultimately about 55/45 ZSS. It's hard to explain how to approach this match up, and I probably don't have it down 100% myself.
ZSS beats DDD now about 60/40.
...don't use ZSS against Falco it's her worst match up. Other than Falco though, I'd say she's a near perfect secondary for Pit.

1: Are there any basic ZSS follow-ups I can use, besides the Dash attack to U-tilt at low %s?
Mostly mindgaming to follow up. It's a lot of up air chains to up B then more up airs, B-air. N-air is added to the mix now too.
2: What basic strategies does ZSS have that i can try to do, in general?
Against most characters, you should be applying a somewhat safe pressure game that doesn't get predictable (which is the hardest part)
3: Do u think ZSS would make a decent secondary for Pit?
Answered already, and most definitely (except Falco)
4: Though this would be hard to answer, but how well do u think a Pit/ZSS 2v2 team would do overall?
I'm sure it could work, but I wouldn't say it's a top team. ZSS should be able to do nice follow ups after an arrow hit though, maybe even D-smash

 

[ph00tbag]

Personally I think James is by far the coolest ZSS player.

i c wat u did thar

 

[cba]

If anybody else could see this post, please post something about it.
"i can see it cba" or something.
miss u guys.

 

[Hence]

Snakeee, is there any reason you began using the *inward (i.e hugging the wall)* flip jump stall? Has someone found a way to consistently punish the previous version?

 

[ThreeSided]

It really looks to me that since this whole "board-clean-up" thing came to the Zamus boards, things have started really progressing fast. Do you think it's the start of something, or just a temporary boost?

 

[Snakeee]

Snakeee, is there any reason you began using the *inward (i.e hugging the wall)* flip jump stall? Has someone found a way to consistently punish the previous version?

I'm shocked how you always notice subtle things like this o_O.
You can actually punish it either way, but it's a lot harder for someone to hit you out of the 'wall hugging' way. When I play against someone I know likes to try to punish me with a character that actually can do it well, I usually stall until the moment I believe they are going to run off and try to hit me, then do something like ledge hop up air unto the stage.

 

[Zaffy]

Snakeee, have you ever used the Bstick?

It allows you to move backwards while SideB'ing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Wix_KsK5g

Skip to 3:00. It works for ZSS too.

 

[sasook]

B-sticking is pretty old, my friend.

 

[Zaffy]

B-sticking is pretty old, my friend.

I know, i was asking if he ever used it

 

[shlike]

what's a good counter to luigi's tornado??? (if any)

 

[Nefarious B]

what's a good counter to luigi's tornado??? (if any)

I would just shield it all the way and punish, it has really bad lag on the last hit.

And you can do wave bounced side b without b sticking just so you know, it's useful in some cases but no worth giving up your cstick for.

 

[shlike]

yeah makes sense, thanks nef

and really if you use c stick for specials...say bye to ff aerials, which is at least half of zss's metagame

I also have a confession to make:

I love Nair.

 

[The Filth]

Jab spam stops luigi's tornado dead I think, I seem to remember using it sometime.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Jab spam stops luigi's tornado dead I think, I seem to remember using it sometime.

Yeah, just hold A.

 

[noradseven]

You can't jab when you are in the air, but yeah if you are on the ground jab that ****.

 

[Nefarious B]

I also have a confession to make:

I love Nair.

Im really liking it too. Nair and bair are my primary spacing tools now, and because of that I'm getting lots more surprise kills with sideb.

 

[noradseven]

Im really liking it too. Nair and bair are my primary spacing tools now, and because of that I'm getting lots more surprise kills with sideb.

n-air has always and will always be an amazing spacer.

But don't forget that u-air on somewhat tall opponents is crazy.

 

[shlike]

hey snakeee recently i've been really frustrated with zss, (losing to people that i shouldnt, losing confidence with her, etc) im not a top zss player but i consider myself a high level zss and yet i feel like quitting her, i was wondering if you've ever felt this way and how you overcame it. Anything helps.

 

[PhantomX]

Kick reason to the curb, shlike... kick reason to the curb.

 

[Gea]

Realize that you don't have as much fun with other characters. Learn new tricks and practice matchups. Don't expect to win. But seriously, learn matchups.

 

[shlike]

Kick reason to the curb, shlike... kick reason to the curb.

ill try and thanks phantom it means alot coming from you man <3

 

[Kates893]

omg, shlike dont quit ZSS! I need a Texas ZSS to look up to

 

[shlike]

wow kates you have no idea how much that cheered me up. You are too cool

 

[sasook]

shlike, I guess if you're losing, it means something in your game isn't working. Take this as an opportunity to change your style, learn new techniques, and try out new things. Just my 2 cents

 

[shlike]

thanks sasook and what you say makes sense

 

[Snakeee]

hey snakeee recently i've been really frustrated with zss, (losing to people that i shouldnt, losing confidence with her, etc) im not a top zss player but i consider myself a high level zss and yet i feel like quitting her, i was wondering if you've ever felt this way and how you overcame it. Anything helps.

I actually get like that a lot. Whenever I start feeling that way, everything I do is kind of "bleh" and feels repetitive. It's like very little truly works, and not only is it boring to play that way, but it's not going to win you matches in the long run right?

This is true, however, we are really putting limits on ourselves, not the character. You can in fact be unpredictable with her, and when you play a match with great creativeness, it feels both fun and incredibly satisfying. Not to mention, you might draw a small crowd and get a few "oooOO"s and "aaaHHH"s

Playing a character like ZSS certainly has its ups and downs. Hopefully though, you'll see the ups outweigh the downs (sorry if this sounded corny but oh well)