Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread

[Sinji]

I find when I input shine>grab too fast my output becomes shine stalled. How much lag is betwwen the shine and grab?

 

[Strong Badam]

On hit. or otherwise?

 

[Bones0]

What's the first frame you can turn around in shine (on hit, if it matters)? Assuming it isn't frame 1, can you buffer the turn around during hitlag? I want to do THIS.

 

[mers]

What's the first frame you can turn around in shine (on hit, if it matters)? Assuming it isn't frame 1, can you buffer the turn around during hitlag? I want to do THIS.

Don't know the exactly frame data. However, it's not frame 1, 'cuz you have to wait for hitlag to end. You can "buffer" it in the sense that if you hold the control stick opposite the direction Fox is facing, he will turn around when hitlag ends. I'm pretty sure that if you just tap the control stick the opposite direction, but let it return to neutral before hitlag ends, Fox will not turn around. This means you can't truly buffer it (assuming I'm right).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have Ice Climbers questions, I know they are a janky character so sorry for heaps of questions...

• List of ways that they can be de-synced, excluding these:
Grab
Whiffed Grab
Roll
Spot Dodge
Landing
Up B OoS
Running into a wall
Getting hit
Up Tilt (going from memory, can't remember if this does or not)
Taunt buffer
Ledge-grabbing
Dash Dance
Pivot ftilt (which other moves can be pivoted in this fashion?)
3, 2, 1, GO!
• Why does Nana sometimes jump when wavedashing on slopes?
• Why is it that when Nana up throws someone below a platform, they sometimes get knocked onto the platform instead of bypassing it?
• How does the ICs different shield sizes trick work from a technical standpoint and to what extent can Popo and Nana's shields be manipulated independent of one another?
• Are Nana's throws 100% random when not near a ledge?
• How does Up B OoS desync work, from a technical standpoint?
• I often find that when I try and do a SH bair with Popo, Nana turns around (facing the same direction as Popo's hammer) halfway through. Is my c-stick press causing this to happen, if so, how can it be avoided?

 

[Tee ay eye]

how does the silentspectre waveland work?

idk much about it, but i know you can do it with falcon and fox. it's pretty much just a waveland where your control stick is facing straight right or straight left (instead of at an angle).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

...It works the exact same way a normal waveland works...?

Nice avatar btw.

 

[Bones0]

Any normal ground attack (or taunt) can be pivoted to desync. Not sure about pivoting a jump or special attack.

Pretty sure you can't air dodge parallel to the ground to WL. You'd either land before air dodging or just air dodge sideways then land. I suppose you could air dodge sideways on YS and still get a WL, but I'm not sure if that helps your distance at all.

 

[standardtoaster]

I'm very sure that WL'ing to the side instead of down and left/right gets you much further distance from the edge on YS.

 

[Geenareeno]

I know as Ganondorf you can waveland with no angle and it sends you really far. You have like 1 frame to do it though. It has something to do with landing detection.

 

[Andy Lawliet]

For the Firefox stall: Do I lose any frames if I do a jump input right before the up B?

 

[ajp_anton]

You lose the frames you delayed pressing the B-button.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The idea is to let go of the edge and upb as soon as you have grabbed the edge. If this is done frame perfectly, then the frame you lose invincibility is the frame you grab the edge to get more. If you are a human, you likely cannot do this frame perfectly so then the purpose isn't so much the full invincibility but holding the edge for a purpose (usually in anticipation of an edgeguard). If you are aware that you will have a gap in your invincibility, its not really important whether you jump before the upb or let go of the ledge on the first frame possible. If your intentions are to be fully invincible, yes, it does matter if you have a jump input (if you press up and b on the same frame, you won't jump; if you press up and then b it will jump and then firefox).

Hope that helped!



(wtf am i doing in this thread!?)

 

[$haDy]

When walking or sprinting on a ledge is it still faster to shield drop than just dropping straight through?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

EDIT: Nevermind, wrong video.

 

[Bones0]

When walking or sprinting on a ledge is it still faster to shield drop than just dropping straight through?

If you're talking about running across a platform, then yes. A regular drop through lasts 3 frames (you drop through on 4). A shield drop is 1 frame (you start to drop through on frame 2). TUTORIAL

 

[$haDy]

If you're talking about running across a platform, then yes. A regular drop through lasts 3 frames (you drop through on 4). A shield drop is 1 frame (you start to drop through on frame 2). TUTORIAL

Ya sorry I did mean a platform.Thank you.

 

[Lovage]

yo strong bed
if a fox and falco CLANK utilt on each other (with their backs to each other)
and they both mash shine right after, will the shine clank as well? or might one beat the other.

 

[Tee ay eye]

it's slightly different

you have to time it later than a normal waveland
and it goes further than a normal waveland

and you CAN do it on a flat surface. i'm not talking about the slope on YS. you can do it with fox and falcon (at least) by jumping and doing a straight horizontal airdodge to waveland if you time it correctly. i just want to know the frame data on the timing and if every character can do it.

that's why i'm asking
jeeze, im not ********

 

[$haDy]

Is brawl and melee DI the same? I want to learn from youtube but all the videos are for brawl.

 

[ajp_anton]

Horizontal wavelands are possible with every character. You just have to, well, land somehow.
If you jump through a platform and time the airdodge correctly (while being at the exact height), you'll land immediately and do the longest possible waveland.
Also, you can do this by just jumping up past a ledge and airdodging up on the stage. This is suboptimal though. Very often you get stuck on the wall for a few frames, like there's some kind of barrier, before finally "getting through" and finally landing. And if you somehow bypass this barrier without delay, you still have a couple of airdodge-frames before landing. All of these delays make you lose speed and waveland distance.

Also, you land immediately with a horizontal wavedash if the platform you stand on is moving upwards =).

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Also, you land immediately with a horizontal wavedash if the platform you stand on is moving upwards =).

Wait what? What do you mean by that?

So on fountain, if I waveland on a platform moving up, I won't go through the normal 10 frames of landing lag? I can act immediately while moving?

 

[Bones0]

Wait what? What do you mean by that?

So on fountain, if I waveland on a platform moving up, I won't go through the normal 10 frames of landing lag? I can act immediately while moving?

You land immediately from normal WDs and still have landing lag...

 

[DRGN]

I think he just means you'll immediately "touch down" and be in the landfallspecial stance (I assume the first frame after the button input).

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Oh, so he just means no airdodge frames?

boooring

 

[Geenareeno]

Hey ajp (or Strong Bad since this is his thread but P:M johns) does fastfalling affect the waveland distance or does it just make it harder to get the full waveland?

 

[ajp_anton]

Waveland/dash distance is only determined by the horizontal speed of your airdodge when you land. So it depends on the airdodge angle and how soon you land, nothing else.

edit:
The possible angles are pictured here:
http://ajpanton.se/ssbm/ajp_anton/Others/directions.png

 

[DRGN]

Which of the following terms would you guys say is more widely recognized, accepted, and/or used?

SAF ("Soonest Actionable Frame")

IASA ("Interruptible As Soon As")


I didn't want to bias the answer from my own niche of forum observation over the years so I thought I'd ask in the most general/diverse area (Melee Discussion). Also, which term do you like more, and why?

 

[stelzig]

I have never seen anyone use SAF before. Wouldn't even know what people were talking about (until now...)

 

[Strong Badam]

SDM uses Soonest Actionable Frame. The difference is that there are two things for an attack; IASA, and SAF. If there is no IASA, then SAF is just the frame after the total animation.

Personally I never use SAF. If a move has IASA then using the term "SAF" in place of IASA is misleading, because you can't air dodge or grab ledges out of IASA.

 

[L__]

if you jump and grab on the same frame which one takes priority?

and what about hitting a and b on the same frame?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You can find the answers to those in Mew2King's big thread from a bazillion years ago.

 

[Bones0]

The specific thread title is "SSBM Statistics List."

 

[Krynxe]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=30064

 

[L__]

correct me if i'm wrong

but i didn't see an answer to my question in that thread

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I could've sworn it was in there, but I can't find it either.

L > R > A > B > Z

I think, no idea for jumping.

 

[DRGN]

SDM uses Soonest Actionable Frame. The difference is that there are two things for an attack; IASA, and SAF. If there is no IASA, then SAF is just the frame after the total animation.

Personally I never use SAF. If a move has IASA then using the term "SAF" in place of IASA is misleading, because you can't air dodge or grab ledges out of IASA.

Oh I didn't know they had differences in what you can do out of them. Are there more besides these?

And for more clarification: they're both the first frame you can begin the animation of a new move, right (i.e. the first frame of a new move can happen on this frame. meaning the game will accept the input for the move the previous frame)? Or are they the first frame that you're actually able to effectively input the next move (and frame 1 of the new animation appears for the next frame)?

 

[Strong Badam]

no

the former

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have Ice Climbers questions, I know they are a janky character so sorry for heaps of questions...

• List of ways that they can be de-synced, excluding these:
Grab
Whiffed Grab
Roll
Spot Dodge
Landing
Up B OoS
Running into a wall
Getting hit
Up Tilt (going from memory, can't remember if this does or not)
Taunt buffer
Ledge-grabbing
Dash Dance
Pivot ftilt (which other moves can be pivoted in this fashion?)
3, 2, 1, GO!
• Why does Nana sometimes jump when wavedashing on slopes?
• Why is it that when Nana up throws someone below a platform, they sometimes get knocked onto the platform instead of bypassing it?
• How does the ICs different shield sizes trick work from a technical standpoint and to what extent can Popo and Nana's shields be manipulated independent of one another?
• Are Nana's throws 100% random when not near a ledge?
• How does Up B OoS desync work, from a technical standpoint?
• I often find that when I try and do a SH bair with Popo, Nana turns around (facing the same direction as Popo's hammer) halfway through. Is my c-stick press causing this to happen, if so, how can it be avoided?

Pleaseeeeeeee SB? <3

 

[Strong Badam]

get that ICs **** out of here
helll nawwww