Offical Pit Match Up Thread: Looking for Assistance!

[SFA Smiley]

Hey you guys said you needed help on the pit matchup? I'll give you some tips

When playing GW the number one thing you're gonna wanna do is not lose. Do this by winning, it's the best way to victory. You're gonna wanna use attacks to inflict damage on him, then when he's at higher percentages use a stonger attack with more knockback to kill him. Be careful, though, he can bubcket brake!

If he knocks you off the stage YOU MUST RECOVER. Thought Up-B was useless? Nope. Even though it's primary function is to blow a gust of wind to throw your opponent off, it can also be used to fly back towards the stage. Pretty handy right?

Defensively, you're gonna wanna not get hit. Don't let that happen, it will make you lose. Also if he's using Side-B let him use it, it's nothing to worry about so don't be scared of it (it even has a 1/9 chance of inflicting 12% damage to GW lol)

 

[Nitrix]

As a Pit:

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?

Do you feel Mr.G&W can shut down aspects of Pit's game?

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?


discuss, Discuss, DISCUSS!!

Hey you guys said you needed help on the pit matchup? I'll give you some tips

When playing GW the number one thing you're gonna wanna do is not lose. Do this by winning, it's the best way to victory. You're gonna wanna use attacks to inflict damage on him, then when he's at higher percentages use a stonger attack with more knockback to kill him. Be careful, though, he can bubcket brake!

If he knocks you off the stage YOU MUST RECOVER. Thought Up-B was useless? Nope. Even though it's primary function is to blow a gust of wind to throw your opponent off, it can also be used to fly back towards the stage. Pretty handy right?

Defensively, you're gonna wanna not get hit. Don't let that happen, it will make you lose. Also if he's using Side-B let him use it, it's nothing to worry about so don't be scared of it (it even has a 1/9 chance of inflicting 12% damage to GW lol)

TL:DR ) Mr. G&W has a bad side-B

 

[pitskeyblade]

Not much I can contribute on this MU, except that his Usmash can kill at relatively low percents. GaW is a really light character, so launching him shouldn't be an issue. His Fair and Bair are REALLY annoying. Oh, and his Nair.

 

[dualseeker]

As a Pit:

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?

Watch out for the Dtilt, all his smashes (as they are spammable and have insane KO power), Nair, Bair, Fair at high percentages, and Up B. When G&W's finish using their Aerials, they will usually try to hit you with Up B next. So, keep on the defensive even after they are done with their Aerials, because most likely, they will follow up with an Up B to catch you off guard.

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?

Try to bait a dash attack by hanging on the ledge. Since G&W's dash attack can knock you off the ledge, they'll most likely use a dash attack if you plank or stay on the ledge too long. Just before they use their Dash Attack, drop from the ledge and use a Uair. Since G&W's Dash Attack has serious cool down, he'll most likely not be able to guard if you time your Uair correctly. Also, I feel that you should play defensively in this MU, since most of G&W's attacks outrange ours (ESPECIALLY his Dtilt). Try to stick to punishing, and don't go overly offensive. Also, watch out for G&W's Dthrow, since it can lead to a number of deadly follow ups (such as Dthrow>Dsmash, which is almost impossible to avoid unless you tech after the Dthrow).

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?

Not really. Since most of his attacks outrange ours, and his moves are much more powerfull than ours, all we can really do is play defensively and take advantage of the cooldown from most of his moves. Also, don't think that after he uses a smash attack he's open. His smash attacks are all spammable, and can seriously cause some lethal damage if your not careful. He can intake our Arrows as ammunition for his Garbage attack (Down B), but after he's full, he can't guard against our Arrows anymore. So, you can fill up his bucket intentionally, but it's a gamble with your life, since it has insane KO power. Try to only fill it up on large stages that you have room to run away and camp. If you're on a small stage, such as BattleField, try to not fill his bucket, as it has surprising range and can be used in an instant.

Do you feel Mr.G&W can shut down aspects of Pit's game?

Well, he can partially shut down our Arrow game, but as I mentioned before, it depends on the stage. If you're on a large stage, then it isn't that big of a threat if G&W has his bucket full, since there is room to run away. However, if you're on a small stage, you have to be more carefull, because his Down B attack has range and lethal power. Although, since G&W's tend to use their Down B after being launched, you could fire Arrows to make him Self Destruct. It takes a considerable amount of time for G&W to get out of his Down B after he takes in a projectile. So, by filling it up intentionally when he's off stage, you may make him go low enough that recovery should be impossible.

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?

I can't really say much here. But try to pick stages that are large, so you have somewhere to run to when his bucket is full.

lol at the pic .

 

[MysteriousSilver]

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?

DAT ****IN' TURTLE MAN. DAT TURTLE. ...Isn't really that big a deal if you remember to shield the whole thing. Even better, just walk away from it and hit him with an arrow as he lands. In fact, if he does anything laggy at a reasonable distance, hit him with an arrow. He can't bucket it if he's still cooling down. Hit him with as many arrows as you safely can, because every time you do, he's going to think, "****, I should have bucketed that." If he's jumping backwards towards you and you see it coming, you can walk/roll behind him so it whiffs entirely and punish with your choice of move while the stupid reptile is biting the air safely on the other side of his hurtbox. They can mix this up with a nair or fair, so keep it mixed up.

Be super careful when you're planking him/playing general ledge games with him, on some stages his dash attack can stage spike you. This is solved by watching him and playing cautious. Every time he whiffs a dash attack on that ledge, he's screaming to you, "Please, please hit me in the face!" It's only polite to oblige with and Uair, grab that ledge again, and hope he keeps trying. You can wrack up some serious damage against the more stubborn GnWs this way.

The Key is kinda scary, and it's going to make you want to avoid chasing him into the air. However, he's light as a balloon filled with flower petals, so you should ignore this instinct entirely and, again, just focus on playing it safe. Your Uair beats the key so long as you positions yourself to one side, away from the hitbox. Again, punish the landing lag on this with an arrow if you're far away.

Most of GnWs notorious moves actually have hitboxes that stay out almost until the move is over, so don't run in and try to hit him afterwards, you're going to take a dtilt to the face. You have to be a little creative; try to hit him during startup and such.

Learn to tech the Dthrow, it could save your life. Never get predictible, unless you enjoy getting Usmashed. The tech is somewhere around the third little 'ball' part before he actually throws you.

Don't let him juggle you with uair too much, it refreshes his moves even if he only gets you with the wind. Popping WoI and dropping down is an effective, if risky, way of getting out of this. Don't do it every time. We all know what happens if they see WoI coming.

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?

Just because he can absorb your arrows doesn't mean we can't camp him. If he's doin' stuff, hit him when he can't possibly pull the bucket out (this includes tossing bacon). If he's not doin' stuff, just wait.

He dies off the top pretty early, so consider you Usmash, Dash Attack, and Dair as kill moves if you usually don't.

If he sits in his bucket, shoot arrows over his head (bucket reaches surprisingly high, so make sure they're missing). Especially if you have the lead. Time spent sitting in the bucket is time he's not approaching you, so you're keeping him pinned down all the same. If you're feeling daring, hit him with an arrow as he's putting the bucket away to move. I guarantee at least some degree of frustration.

If you mess up three times (you should probably be extremely cautious after two) and he gets a full bucket, spam the everloving crap out of him. With no bucket to hide behind, he's camped as easily as anyone else. Make him work for that stock.

Basically frustrate him and try to get him to throw out those long-winded moves in places that can't hurt you.

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?

Not really. It's a hard matchup. I think we do better in the air if we're careful, and I like to think our ledgegame is superior, but this fight is a challenge to me.

Do you feel Mr.G&W can shut down aspects of Pit's game?

Yes and no. Things like bucketing our arrows, the dash attack stage spike, and the key make it seem like our normal options are nonviable , but we can still use just about all of them (sparingly) so long as we watch ourselves.

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?

Halberd is nice due to the low ceiling, be careful of stuff like Dtilt if you decide to shark him. I also like to take him to FD where his vertical-based game isn't as useful, and where I can pester him with arrows.

Bans would be Rainbow Cruise (obvious) and Brinstar. Brinstar is normally pretty good for us, but he makes better use of it all.

My two cents.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Pit V. Game and Watch isnt as bad as I first thought. Using SDI and the specific shielding abuses discovered against him (specifically against multi hit moves like his Bair) the match up is not that drastic. His spacing and kills are superior sure, but we are better able to punish.

I'm trying to find the youtube video that illustrates G&W's weakness. Ill keep in touch.

 

[deathbygoten]

the g&w match up is pretty hard for me. when i try to use arrows they just bucket them and i have to approach which is hard

 

[MaskedAvnger]

Hey Pits,

Toon Links are currently discussing the matchup, any input would be appreciated!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=282233

 

[Ayoub]

Marth-Pit 50-50 lmao, u obviously never played a good marth.

 

[Katana_koden]

IF they bucket your arrows, they can't bucket more than 3 so they have too approach. Then we are free run and return to punish their obvious approaches.

I haven't fought a lot of G&W's but that was my general strategy that worked.

G&W moves are generally shield safe and disjointed.

Box him up with jabs but be careful of down smash. Space with ftilt and dtilt.

Praxis Demonstrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYfunwOt9FU

If thats the vid you were talking about..

 

[Lenus Altair]

Yeah it was. For some reason I though it was Dark Peach demonstrating as opposed to Praxis which I s why I couldn't find it. Thanks .

 

[Praxis]

Yeah it was. For some reason I though it was Dark Peach demonstrating as opposed to Praxis which I s why I couldn't find it. Thanks .

I am offended, good sir.


Anyway yeah, Pit has a lot of good ways to deal with Bair. Jump away from him and bair/fair yourself a moment later to hit when the head dips, for example, if spacing aerially. What's Pit's fastest move OOS?

DAT ****IN' TURTLE MAN. DAT TURTLE. ...Isn't really that big a deal if you remember to shield the whole thing.

LOL urbad.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Sorry Praxis, I just tend to lurk on the Brawl tier list thread. A lot. His name comes up there quite regularly...

But don't worry, I know about your skills and your matches with Sagemoon. You Rep has not passed my notice.

OOS, Pit's fastest option is his Utilt, since that's frame 2 but if your using that OOS then Game and Watch is spacing badly or botched a smash. Dsmash and jab are frame 5, F or U smash + Dtilt 6, and a buffered SH Nair 9. That is all without sheild drop times. Those should be the most relevant ones.

 

[Nitrix]

As a Pit:

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?

Do you feel Ganon can shut down aspects of Pit's game?

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?


discuss, Discuss, DISCUSS!!

 

[DLA]

Well I don't get the "pleasure" of fighting too many Pits offline, but from the modest experience that I do have, I've pretty much chalked this up to the the typical "deal with camping until you get close enough to do Ganon stuff" matchup for Ganon. And for this particular matchup, Ganon's actually pretty good at doing Ganon stuff:

- I believe Ganon can do pretty much anything he wants out of Flame Choke, including Dtilt, Ftilt, and instant Dash Attack. And (as far as I know), most of Pit's most viable killing options (excluding Bair) are performed from the ground, so it's fairly easy to bait Pit into performing a laggy smash or something that results in a flame choke.

- Ganon seems to combo Pit nicely with Dairs, and Pit's average rolls make it pretty easy for Ganon to punish rolls with stomps etc.

- Pit's arrows are pretty easy to powershield, and no one has more powershielding practice than Ganon mains


Of course, it's still pretty easy for Pit to camp against Ganon. Pit's aerials make it pretty tough for Ganon to get close, though it's really nothing out of the ordinary for seasoned Ganon mains.

Offstage... it's definitely in Pit's favor. Gimping Ganon is pretty **** easy if you have more than one double jump. and some decent aerials. Ganon has some great tools for gimping as well, which he can really capitalize on if the Pit doesn't recover carefully. However, if the Pit utilizes his recovery to its fullest, Ganon will rarely have the opportunity to use his gimping tools against Pit.

If I was a Pit player, the biggest thing I would worry about is getting the KO on Ganon. Landing a Bair is probably going to be your best bet... because if you're fighting a good Ganon, he'll space himself way too well to get hit by a smash in most situations. Just don't try to force the KO, because if you keep whiffing, you're going to keep getting punished--HARD.


I felt this summary was a bit too general... which probably makes my lack of high-end experience in this matchup apparent. As far as the overall matchup goes... it can be somewhat annoying, but it's definitely not among my least favorite matchups. Ganon can do his Ganon stuff well, but he's still limited by the fact he's fighting a campy character.

I'd probably say 35:65, but who knows

 

[Z1GMA]

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?Don't wiff DA's at us,
'cause you'll get killed at around 90% by our Stomp.
Also, Gerudo -> iDA kills you at around 90%.
And don't play games by the ledge when you recover,
'cause our Ftilt will kill you at around 70% there.

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?Arrow, arrows, arrows and quick attacks with very low cooldown.

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?Pit ***** Ganon in Close Range, and he can gimp us like there's no tomorrow.

Do you feel Ganon can shut down aspects of Pit's game?Ganon can give Pit some trouble at Dtilt Range, where Pit's attacks won't reach Ganon, but Ganon's can reach Pit.

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?Avoid Norfair and Brinstar.
Pick FD or Yoshi's Island.

75 : 25

 

[Tikun]

I've played a LOT with a ganondorf main in my city.
And i can say that if you consider a set of 3 and if both of you are in the same level... there is no way Pit is having a hard time.

Our arrow to fair combo works incredbly good @ganons. And they're tipperman won't work on our WoI.
Ganon KO power is awesome. Every single move of his moveset is an killing move. So pits must be aware of spacing himself during the whole match (Witch is not dificult) with Dairs and Retreating Fairs (buffering jabs).

I would say that this MU is a 75:25.
But still... ganon rocks.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231077

Link da bess.

 

[PK-ow!]

I think this could be as good as 40:60 Pit for Ganon players.


The range is a big deal. Pit is bad at opening people up. Everything that has kept him from being a reliable character in tourney play... comes upfront against Ganon.


Ganon can get through arrows, and Pit can't run away forever like Falco. He can't even fly away because his jumps are slower than a Ganon fh UAir.


Pit is fairly ****ty on shield, but even worse on roll. Ganon has T-rex grab range, but Pit has swords anyway; Ganon doesn't lose anything more than others, here.

In the end, Ganon seems like he should be in the worse half of Pit matchups. Whatever that means. Because that point about dtilt? That's big. Just because it's one move doesn't mean it can't be relevant or even MU central. Jigglypuff? Melee Ganon?


It is also a very great factor that Pit's Dsmash, dtilt, and dash attack are jumpable. His ftilt is timed like a smash, so you can play to interrupt it, while his Fsmash is unreliable, shortranged, and beatable by Ganon stuff.

Pit's strongest option is short hop backwards. A very short distance. It plays like Zangief vs Dhalsim in SF4. Ganon/Zangief's gotta walk up, but Pit can interrupt with say FAir... and Pit can air dodge safely. He can do this so many times before reaching the edge, and Ganon has to beat other options but not walk right into this really easy one. This is a very tough point I see.
It's also clear that Pit can cross up easily with NAir, by moving through a dead zone in Ganon's face. If Pit can get to there, Ganon only has Jab, which is unsafe. Ganon will have to avoid this situation, which will be what makes setting up that perfect dtilt hard.


However, I really don't see Pit waving a "No"-stick at Ganon with... anything; so, this is limited only by Ganon's inability to force actions with his general slowness.
If it's a battle of patience though... Ganon is heavier, stronger, and vulnerable to gimps only by way of Arrows.
I can really see this being 4:6. None of Pit's tricks matter to the King. He has to play around Ganon. Ganon is still bad, but that's usually a strong point in Fighters, isn't it? He has to play around Ganon, so Ganon knows what he's looking at.


Ganon should take Pit to a small stage with average distance blastzones. Something like Battlefield.
I don't know what to make of platforms. Pit has bad up normals and slightly goofy aerials, so I don't think they help him camp under them.

 

[Tikun]

Our Utilt / Usmash / Uair reach the top of the plataforms oO
Are you saying that pit has no option to shield poke ganon on plataforms?

 

[Z1GMA]

Everything that has kept him from being a reliable character in tourney play... comes upfront against Ganon.

Pit is S-tier in Japan

 

[Nitrix]

This is not that hard for Pit, he just has to be patient and let the kills come naturally. If you force Ganon to approach, and camp like a ----- then he isn't going a very easy time getting in. If you predict his approach, Angel Ring can rack up some nice damage at low percents. Nair and U-Tilt are good in this matchup! I will hopefully play some Ganons later to provide more info.

Pit is S-tier in Japan

I don't know if you are sarcastic or not, but....

Japan's metagame is still developing a ton, and they have some pretty unorthodox rules. Furthermore, the only really successful Pit in Japan is Masashi (maybe Earth too?) and he alone is the main reason why Pit is that high in the first place. One player doing well shouldn't warrant Pit's S-Tier placement, but Japan also doesn't have anything like the SBR so its not like alot of opinions are taken into account anyways.

TL:DR: Don't take Japan's tier list seriously.

 

[Z1GMA]

I don't know if you are sarcastic or not, but....

I was Half Serious.

 

[Clai]

It was nice of you guys to invite us over for discussion. Now for the matchup of the manliest character in Brawl vs. the least manly character in any Smash game ever (I'm really sorry about this, guys. Glad you're coping with it well)

As a Pit:

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?

For specific moves, you want to watch out for Dtilt (our good range option), Ftilt and Dash attack (powerful options) on the ground, and every aerial plus aerial Wizard Kick (it trades hits with your Uair when hit with the right timing) in the air. Ganondorf has a very adequate aerial game, and a good player is going to utilize it whenever he can. As for specific strategies, a Ganon player can easily bait a missed attack and hit you with Flame Choke, and with that comes guaranteed follow-ups or possible chaining of Flame Chokes (Pit's GUA is slow and moderately easy to powershield with the right conditioning). Therefore, always watch out when you decide to attack Ganon.

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?

Pit has a chaingrab sequence-Fsmash that puts Ganon from 0-60. Considering Pit is pretty lackluster at killing, it's not that game-changing, but definitely an advantage. After that percentage, Pit's grabs don't really accomplish anything. You can be liberal about your arrows, as Ganon is very, very slow, but his Dash attack can go through your projectile unsafe zone fairly easily.

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?

Being really, really, really, really, really gay. You probably get that from everyone at this point, but Ganon mains have no tolerance for gayness. Sadly, we can't do much against the gayness either, so use every bit of it that you can.

Do you feel Ganon can shut down aspects of Pit's game?

Ganon, more than likely, wins this matchup in the mid-range department. His Dtilt outranges your moves, Ftilt has a great amount of priority, and Dash attack has great kill potential plus decent cross-up potential.

That being said, once you get into close-range or out into far-range combat, Pit pretty much ruins Ganon's day, so your key here is to either camp him really hard with arrows or get really inside his space and jab/grab to your heart's content. Personally, I would prefer the latter, as anyone with patience can deal with camping, but Ganon's shield options are simply horrific.

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?

I usually just suggest with whatever you're comfortable with, but if I have to say something... FD?

For a numerical ratio, I will also list 75-25

As a final note, I have some videos that can help you further dissect the matchup. I don't know how active Vex is in Pit discussions, but he knows a lot about Ganondorf and how to fight him. Yes, they are friendlies, and Vex refuses to time me out for some reason, but he was serious in playing these matches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFcJTxOmRUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78wmrNzypfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwOSMJcTSSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n5JpO71fpE

 

[fUddO]

Hi, I'm not really a regular, but I play this matchup all the time with a friend of mine (Supreme Dirt).

It was nice of you guys to invite us over for discussion. Now for the matchup of the manliest character in Brawl vs. the least manly character in any Smash game ever (I'm really sorry about this, guys. Glad you're coping with it well)



For specific moves, you want to watch out for Dtilt (our good range option), Ftilt and Dash attack (powerful options) on the ground, and every aerial plus aerial Wizard Kick (it trades hits with your Uair when hit with the right timing) in the air. Ganondorf has a very adequate aerial game, and a good player is going to utilize it whenever he can. As for specific strategies, a Ganon player can easily bait a missed attack and hit you with Flame Choke, and with that comes guaranteed follow-ups or possible chaining of Flame Chokes (Pit's GUA is slow and moderately easy to powershield with the right conditioning). Therefore, always watch out when you decide to attack Ganon.
Dtilt outranges our whole moveset except Arrow and Angel Ring (I think), although both are slower (AR by only 1 frame though). Juggling Ganon really isn't that hard as long as you watch for what he's doing. A favourite technique of mine is an empty SHFF or SHAD fakeout into pretty much anything.

When it comes to Flame Choke, Ganon can only hit you with jab if you simply stand up (at least according to the chart on the Ganon boards, it might be out of date). I'm pretty sure it is, and I think buffered Dtilt is also guaranteed. Very rarely use get up attack, it's probably the most telegraphed option out of a choke, and being predictable against Ganon is BAD.

Pit has a chaingrab sequence-Fsmash that puts Ganon from 0-60. Considering Pit is pretty lackluster at killing, it's not that game-changing, but definitely an advantage. After that percentage, Pit's grabs don't really accomplish anything. You can be liberal about your arrows, as Ganon is very, very slow, but his Dash attack can go through your projectile unsafe zone fairly easily.
Pretty much spam arrows until Ganon starts to get close, then just run away as repeat.

Being really, really, really, really, really gay. You probably get that from everyone at this point, but Ganon mains have no tolerance for gayness. Sadly, we can't do much against the gayness either, so use every bit of it that you can.
Can't emphasize this enough. As long as you keep your distance, Ganon can't touch you, since the only approach that really gets through arrows is Dash Attack. However, I find planking to be fairly ineffective vs. the Dorf. The risk of a Dair spike just isn't worth the reward, and you can do much more damage on stage spamming arrows.

Ganon, more than likely, wins this matchup in the mid-range department. His Dtilt outranges your moves, Ftilt has a great amount of priority, and Dash attack has great kill potential plus decent cross-up potential.
Can't argue with this. Best to just back up or move in at this range.

That being said, once you get into close-range or out into far-range combat, Pit pretty much ruins Ganon's day, so your key here is to either camp him really hard with arrows or get really inside his space and jab/grab to your heart's content. Personally, I would prefer the latter, as anyone with patience can deal with camping, but Ganon's shield options are simply horrific.
Makes sense. Personally, I prefer camping, since there really is no risk to Pit as long as you stay far enough away. And frankly, that's not too hard.

I usually just suggest with whatever you're comfortable with, but if I have to say something... FD?
FD is good for Pit. RC also works well, but the Ganon will probably ban that. Yoshi's Island: Brawl and Brinstar are 2 stages that come to mind as being places you probably don't want to face Ganon, although they really don't change too much.

For a numerical ratio, I will also list 75-25
+1

As a final note, I have some videos that can help you further dissect the matchup. I don't know how active Vex is in Pit discussions, but he knows a lot about Ganondorf and how to fight him. Yes, they are friendlies, and Vex refuses to time me out for some reason, but he was serious in playing these matches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFcJTxOmRUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78wmrNzypfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwOSMJcTSSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n5JpO71fpE
I hope the serious comment was a joke. Most Pits don't wait until 193% to start using arrows, lol.

 

[Katana_koden]

I hope the serious comment was a joke. Most Pits don't wait until 193% to start using arrows, lol. .

Some people think they are more serious because they are more determined to follow up better. But usually less mind games and most definitely less camping. Pits used to fight at close range usually also forget we have arrows.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well, I have no data on Ganon yet due to the lack of em being around, but let's see what I got.


As a Pit:

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?

The Thunderstomp with those SH D-airs can be really troublesome, and can even avoid some of Pit's low-hitting moves (like D-tilt), not to mention it being good on damage and KO power.
D-tilt will outrage all of Pit's moves, except the arrows, and of course, when gimping, watch out for suicide attempts if one chooses to pursue a recovering Ganon.

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?

Camping/Spacing is important to Pit, and against a Ganon, who's highly vulnerable to such tactics, we should use it a lot. A combination of arrows, F-airs, and D-airs (Shorthop ones are good too) can help.
Also, don't forget Pit's little F-throw CG or F-throw > Stutter-step F-smash possibility. I don't know to what % we can do this up to yet...

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?

Camping/Gimping advantage, simple.

Do you feel Ganon can shut down aspects of Pit's game?

I don't have enough info on this.

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?

Use FD for camping purposes, and Pit should avoid YI since it's his worst neutral. More stage info will be needed eventually.


Most seem to say ratio is 75:25 Pit, and well, I'll stick it to that atm.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

When it comes to Flame Choke, Ganon can only hit you with jab if you simply stand up (at least according to the chart on the Ganon boards, it might be out of date). I'm pretty sure it is, and I think buffered Dtilt is also guaranteed. Very rarely use get up attack, it's probably the most telegraphed option out of a choke, and being predictable against Ganon is BAD.

We actually have a guaranteed DA and DTilt. My switching between CStick and AStick has just screwed my buffering over. We can reliably hit you with DA, as, iirc, you are a 10-framer from Gerudo.

When we strike with an Aerudo, you have a frame advantage, I believe it was something like 6, but I have to check that. We can get up a shield in time for a GUA and then Shieldgrab, so you should probably roll. Don't be predictable, or we'll chainchoke you.

This is a really awful matchup for us, but we have the potential to kill you in 3 hits or so. The key to this matchup is not getting hit.

I also really need to stop falling for those SH shenanigans of yours.

This is one of 3 matchups I personally would never play in a tournament, unless it were GF.

Supreme Dirt out.

 

[Clai]

Some people think they are more serious because they are more determined to follow up better. But usually less mind games and most definitely less camping. Pits used to fight at close range usually also forget we have arrows.

Cosigning this. When I said "refuses to time me out," I should have said something like "refuses to do any sort of hard camping." Arrows are probably not the best choice if you're playing aggressively, which is what Vex was doing against me. I never said the videos were optimal for Pit playing against Ganon, but they do show what you want to do if you decide to play aggressively.

 

[fUddO]

Fair enough. I'm not used to seeing that sort of playstyle from Pit though, that's for sure.

 

[Nitrix]

As a Pit:

What moves or tactics should we watch out for?

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up?

Do you feel Pit has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup?

Do you feel the Ike can shut down aspects of Pit's game?

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?


discuss, Discuss, DISCUSS!!

 

[Ussi]

1) Watch out for spacing and jabs from Ike. Also Ike can duck under uninfluenced arrows.

2) Camp camp camp, mirror aether not done properly, and play patiently.

3) I put it at 45-55, your best advantage is when Ike is offstage, above you, and long range. Save ftilt for the kill, its your best killer in this MU. always try to knock Ike away or above you.

4) Planking doesn't work on Ike as Pit, fair > Pit's ledge game. Do not stay in the boxing game with Ike either. Jab him away and get back to camping.

5) Pick Frigate or FD, ban battlefield or any stage that is bad for you when camping.


thoughts/random info that could be or not useful:

I dunno, try UpB OoS to mess up Ike's spacing game. If you decide to go offstage, Ike can only do 1 aerial coming back. If you are recovering, watch out of fair and bair offstage, Ike can really go farther than you'd expect.

I personally think its 50-50 but I factor in bias to 45-55.

 

[DTK.L]

I agree with ussi the matchup seems to be 50-50 If you don't utilize pits moves to they're full capablities. An arrow > Grab > Dthrow > Upair will get you a decent bump on ike's percentage but a well trained ike knows how to dodge spam well so you'll have to be more creative or arrow loop controllably.

Mirror shielding can turn ikes moves on him and leave him in a ending lag position so take the chance when you can. Most Ike's will try to Aether plank so learn to not get too close to the edge waiting for his recover instead have a arrow and a plan waiting for him.

Never end up too close to an ike. Ike mains love close combat and will jab cancel if not jab at all on you if they have the chance.

These things are strategies my best friend used to do when we would have a daily brawl at his house he mains a well trained pit but doesn't play wifi.

 

[Ayoub]

The matchup might be 50-50 on wifi. Sorry but if you have a decent Powersheild game, Ike shouldnt be a problem at all. That is, if you're easily mindgamed (aka having stupid habbits like spotdodge a lot, airdodge a lot or roll a lot).

 

[Foodies]

I don't think the MU discussions should be the match based on wifi...otherwise Pit would obviously have the advantage due to Ike not being able to PS arrows reliably. And what is the logic behind having a decent powershield game making Ike not a problem? Good luck power shielding his 3 frame jab.

And what Ussi said. Camp a lot, go for gimps. Can't really say much more since I haven't really played many Pits with Ike.

 

[Death Arcana]

aether planking is just asking to be mirrored, which either kills him or puts in a position for ftilt or dsmash

 

[Ussi]

What do you plan to PS against Ike consisently?

Also don't sterotype us with wifi cause we use Ike


Lastly, aether planking will always be useful, because if we don't its easier o intercept Ike, if we aether plank, then you'll want to mirror meaning we have options to make you guess really wrong. ie we predict going for an aerial to catch up out of a ledge hop.

 

[Ayoub]

His fair, misstimed bair, smashes, you can't rely everything on your jab.

 

[Nikenick]

I would just arrow loop to try to hit you if you aether plank. It's just stupid to approach aether planking since you'll take damage for sure. And a good Ike won't get Mirror shielded anyways, I played san and I think I only mirror shielded him once in 7-8 games. Ike has some ways to get around Mirror shield, like reversed aether and just timing your aether so you'll 'sweetspot' the ledge. With sweetspot I mean that your sword won't go higher than the ledge, so you can't get Mirror shielded. You'd be more likely to gimp Ike anyways, and that's quite easy. Shoot arrows to either lock him offstage so he can't come back or kill his jump with arrows. Ike really can't recover with side b either if the pit can aim arrows really well, it just takes too much time to charge side b. Sometimes Ike will save his jump for when he's under the stage and then recover with up b, a good timed ledgedrop to up b(will sweetspot the ledge) will make sure you have invicibility frames on the ledge when ike's sword goes up, so you won't get hit.

Okay now about the onstage game, Ike's jab is obviously really good. Pit's floatyness helps DI'ing out of his jab combos though. I believe you can punish his retreating fair with dash attack if you PS, that's at least what I did against san and it worked. I'm not sure about just shielding though, might be possible to punish. Ike's nair cancels and is really good, if spaced well this move is unpunishable for Pit. If Ike doesn't spaces well then you can probably punish it with utilt since our utilt is frame 2. Pit's dtilt is good in this matchup too since it has a lot of range and comes out quick.

It's quite easy to juggle Ike imo, just stay directly under him and he can only nair, dair or airdodge. Juggle him with uair, dair and arrows(shot upwards) and he can't really do much.

Ike obviously has to approach in this match up, since pit outcamps him. Ike is better at killing, it's quite easy imo not to get hit by fsmash and usmash, just don't roll or jump into Ike when he's charging anything. Fsmash has amazing range and will even hit above him, don't underestimate that range or you'll die at 80%. Ike will probably kill you with bair, ftilt or maybe even fair if it's not stale. Ike will probably kill pit at around 120-130%, and Pit will kill Ike at around 140-160%, depending on what Pit can land and how stale his killing moves are. However, it's more likely to kill Ike at around 130% with a gimp.

I think this matchup is 60/40 for Pit for reasons stated above.

 

[Ayoub]

I would just arrow loop to try to hit you if you aether plank. It's just stupid to approach aether planking since you'll take damage for sure. And a good Ike won't get Mirror shielded anyways, I played san and I think I only mirror shielded him once in 7-8 games. Ike has some ways to get around Mirror shield, like reversed aether and just timing your aether so you'll 'sweetspot' the ledge. With sweetspot I mean that your sword won't go higher than the ledge, so you can't get Mirror shielded. You'd be more likely to gimp Ike anyways, and that's quite easy. Shoot arrows to either lock him offstage so he can't come back or kill his jump with arrows. Ike really can't recover with side b either if the pit can aim arrows really well, it just takes too much time to charge side b. Sometimes Ike will save his jump for when he's under the stage and then recover with up b, a good timed ledgedrop to up b(will sweetspot the ledge) will make sure you have invicibility frames on the ledge when ike's sword goes up, so you won't get hit.

Okay now about the onstage game, Ike's jab is obviously really good. Pit's floatyness helps DI'ing out of his jab combos though. I believe you can punish his retreating fair with dash attack if you PS, that's at least what I did against san and it worked. I'm not sure about just shielding though, might be possible to punish. Ike's nair cancels and is really good, if spaced well this move is unpunishable for Pit. If Ike doesn't spaces well then you can probably punish it with utilt since our utilt is frame 2. Pit's dtilt is good in this matchup too since it has a lot of range and comes out quick.

It's quite easy to juggle Ike imo, just stay directly under him and he can only nair, dair or airdodge. Juggle him with uair, dair and arrows(shot upwards) and he can't really do much.

Ike obviously has to approach in this match up, since pit outcamps him. Ike is better at killing, it's quite easy imo not to get hit by fsmash and usmash, just don't roll or jump into Ike when he's charging anything. Fsmash has amazing range and will even hit above him, don't underestimate that range or you'll die at 80%. Ike will probably kill you with bair, ftilt or maybe even fair if it's not stale. Ike will probably kill pit at around 120-130%, and Pit will kill Ike at around 140-160%, depending on what Pit can land and how stale his killing moves are. However, it's more likely to kill Ike at around 130% with a gimp.

I think this matchup is 60/40 for Pit for reasons stated above.

First of all, what move does pit have to send Ike down or at least downards, making him have to use aether? The only thing is bad DI. The only time Ike needs aether is with bad DI. So if Ike has good DI, he'd always DI upwards, and only needs his jump to get back on stage. And if he does need it, like when he DI's bad once or something, he still can reverse aether and whatever you said. Recovery isn't that much of a problem, it's not like you can base this matchup in Pits favour because of recovery.

Stop using "I did it against San". This is the Ike vs Pit matchup, not Nikenick vs San. Jab is better then whatever Pit has on the ground. Pit isn't that floaty, you can still combo Pit with jabcancels. And Pits dtilt doesn't come out really fast, what are you talking about.

Finally, congratulations, in your whole wall of texty you stated something that's actually true. Ike has to approach. But well, Ike's approaches aren't bad. He outranges you in the air aswell as on the ground. If you PS arrows and get close, it gets kinda even or even Ike's favour if you base it on close combat. Pit dies kinda fast, and a good Ike has great stuff to mindgame Pits into an fsmash (especially since like, all pits are roll and airdodge spammers) or a usmash. Uair kills fast aswell, and jab-utilt works good since Pit goes kinda upwards after a jab, according to you due his "floatiness". Whats the use of a gimp if you do it on 130%, LOL.

I think it's even. Ike 55-45 pit close combat. Pit 55-45 Ike in eh, not-close-combats due to having a (easy PSable) projectile. thus, 50-50.

iWin.