NTSC Melee as a tournament standard in Australia

[Nova]

Edit: everyone should get along and not argue about it. We should just run tourneys of both

That just won't work.

 

[Dekar289]

Why are Atticus' posts always so amazing?

avatar makes whatever he says correct and definite

 

[TakFR]

Surgi stop making a post for every response you see, it's called spamming

Anyway you couldn't have NTSC + PAL running as standard, it would cause too much extra hassle for TOs and players to decide what version should be played where and for what matches

 

[EverAlert]

Copying America because they're better than us is silly. Europe is also better than us and they play PAL. Even if that wasn't the case, it's not relevant at all.

I agree mostly with what you're saying, but I wanted to clarify something here.

Yes, it's irrelevant. But what I mainly meant was not about the version in particular - but that clinging to anything in the vain hope that we might appear "different" is pointless and silly, especially when a change we're discarding could be beneficial.

Also I disagree - copying Americans because they're better than us is smart. Copying those better than ourselves is a basic fundamental of improving as a human being. The schooling system is built around this concept. Maybe switching to NTSC just cause they use it is irrelevant, but again, I was more referring to copying in general.

 

[Zero]

You just ignored the fact that Europe is better than us as well.

Counterpicking games for matchup is lol indeed.

 

[Dekar289]

Anyway you couldn't have NTSC + PAL running as standard, it would cause too much extra hassle for TOs and players to decide what version should be played where and for what matches

did you not read my post
it's quite simple

could just have 1 or 2 ntsc tvs at tourneys
and if both players agree they play on ntsc instead

or have it other way around

 

[Surgi]

Surgi stop making a post for every response you see, it's called spamming

>< sorry guys I am just interested in the topic.

Anyway you couldn't have NTSC + PAL running as standard, it would cause too much extra hassle for TOs and players to decide what version should be played where and for what matches

Origionally what I intended to say was not to have both at one tournament but run seperate tourneys for either version? maybe mix and match the monthlies I'm sure most of the melee crowd would still come to them all no matter the specified version so it wouldn't make too much difference, but it might show that some players are prominant in one version and vice versa. Just a thought

 

[SummonerAU]

copy EA because he's better at chaingrabs

 

[unreon]

But Dekar, the point of this is to determine what is "standard" in the sense that if there is disagreement, you can always go back to the rules to settle disputes.

The reason why my NTSC was used for the big TV last BOOST was more out of necessity than anything else. We just didn't have enough setups >< But it was good in that the recorded matches between top players got a feel for it running on a national scale. An experiment, if you will.

Odd how it somehow brought the discussion of NTSC this far.

If we adopt NTSC as standard, keep in mind we never will have as many setups as a tourny running PAL. If NTSC becomes standard, than nobody should ever be forced to play purely on PAL if they object to it - this is relevant for things like pools/swiss where as many as 6 people are playing on the one TV. It causes alot of TO headache that I think is better avoided.

 

[EverAlert]

copy EA because he's better at chaingrabs

You know it.

 

[Dekar289]

oh unny you're too smart

 

[Redact]

Why are Atticus' posts always so amazing?

atticus does this crazy thing where he thinks before he posts, unlike the rest of us

also i hope if cao/other to's take this vote actually into consideration, they also take in the fact that a lot of the votes weren't exactly good votes (alzi comes to mind)

 

[CAOTIC]

Redact, don't worry, that's why I made the votes public.

 

[Pantsmann]

I just don't see the point in making ntsc the STANDARD (i can understand one or two setups at a tournament for lulz), it requires work, getting extra setups, all when PAL is running just fine. like what other people have said, europe is doing quite well with PAL i don't see why we should be copying americans when europe is doing practically just as well with what we already have. Also PAL is more balanced, fox sheik falco marth got nerfed, why would we want to change to a version where top tier are even more broken?

mainly i'm against it because it requires extra effort for such a pointless change.

 

[Scabe]

Wow this is quite even. I voted for NTSC. Wait why did I vote for NTSC?! I think I it was just so we could follow the American's.

 

[King Kong]

I voted against NTSC.

PAL version is simply a more balanced game. I like the fact that as a Sheik player I cant 0-death 50% of the cast with chaingrabs and that my character does not have an OP grab game, I like that Fox and Marth are slightly less powerful. I cant see any benefits of switching over to NTSC other than for interest.

As for the copying America idea. Why would this make us better? Id rather take my smash inspiration from Amsah, EK and Armada over Mango, HBox and M2K who I personally find rather boring to watch.

I think that having a couple of T.V's set to NTSC at tournaments is a fantastic idea though.

peace out

 

[CAOTIC]

I don't think people vouching for NTSC Melee are trying to American, or Japanese or whatever, it's just because they enjoy playing that version more.

I think Melbourne's tournaments could be heading for optional NTSC TV stations, at least for a pilot test. We certainly have the resources for it.

 

[Sieg]

Extendur.

I want to see Samus mains again in Melee.

 

[Surgi]

yeah maybe a test to find out who likes what is necessary to solve this. People can argue theory untill the cows come home but as em told me several times, results speak louder than words. My vote is for a trial of ntsc in melb

 

[King Kong]

yeah maybe a test to find out who likes what is necessary to solve this. People can argue theory untill the cows come home but as em told of several times, results speak louder than words. My vote is for a trial of ntsc in melb

If you thought Em was good before, she's gonna r@pe even harder in NTSC. As i've said before i feel like an insane demon on crack when I play NTSC Sheik. I dont like it, its like I get the same result except for less effort.

But hey, no harm can come of having a trial tournament, it'd be quite fun in fact. Id vote for some NTSC trial tournaments for sure.

peace out

 

[EverAlert]

@ King Kong - It's not so much a "copying Americans" idea as it is a "copying those better than us" idea. If you read my response to Atticus I agree with him several times that copying America only for the sake of their version is pointless. I originally meant "why not copy America?" as an offhand remark since Alzi was being silly. :/

Anyway the copying others thing had nothing to do with version, it just happened to come up in a topic about deciding on a version. Just clearing that up.

 

[Dekar289]

sure sheik is better
but so is fox. play fox against shiek.

and even if you play marth against sheik, you can now ken combo, and like pal the matchup is slightly in marth's favour still imo edit: no wait of course it's not lol, but w/e sheik is poo in pal, give her the boost

i think trialling an ntsc only tournament (with mostly ntsc setups, but of course some tvs will have to have pal, and we can use this if 2 people agree to play on pal instead or if their mains like have no changes between versions) is the way to go here

 

[Splice]

@ King Kong - It's not so much a "copying Americans" idea as it is a "copying those better than us" idea. If you read my response to Atticus I agree with him several times that copying America only for the sake of their version is pointless. I originally meant "why not copy America?" as an offhand remark since Alzi was being silly. :/

I thought the idea was just playing a better version of the game?
And coincidentally the better version was released in America not Australia.

"Copying Americans" is a silly debate when their version of the game is simply better or prefferred.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

lol ntsc better..

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

NTSC is better....if you want to all be a bunch of tools who only use 3 characters. Personally I don't care either way...but it seems like the only reason to do this is to be like the 'cool kids'.
Overall we will see:
Stronger top tier characters (bad)
Weaker lower tier characters (bad)
Advantage for long-time players (bad)
Disadvantage for new-comers (bad)
NTSC more faulty (bad)
Fewer copies (bad)
TV issues a possibility (bad)
Favours veterans over newer players (bad)

Wake up...you'll only drive people away :\

 

[Pantsmann]

yeah, that's a point. all the new people coming in will all have been playing PAL the entire time probably.

 

[Splice]

yeah, that's a point. all the new people coming in will all have been playing PAL the entire time probably.

And thus more easily accurate TO results

 

[Pantsmann]

what? how does that make sense? why would making new people play a game they're not used to give MORE ACCURATE results than all of us playing the same game?

 

[tedeth]

I donno I much prefer to play against Sheiks in NTSC.

 

[Toby.]

Just want to say that you padded that list out simply by supplying opposites and rewording the same thing. Namely:

Advantage for long-time players (bad)
Disadvantage for new-comers (bad)
Favours veterans over newer players (bad)

Pretty samey to me.

There's a similar thing going on with your talk about top and low tiers getting stronger and weaker, but that makes slightly more sense because a top tier buff doesn't necessarily mean a low tier nerf.

I dont have an opinion in this discussion. Just wanted to point that out because it was a strange argument that you might want to clarify or edit out.

 

[EverAlert]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=57155

Low tiers seem nerfed in PAL, though nowhere near the extent of top tiers. Generally they have slightly better weight, but weaker/worse attacks.

I thought the idea was just playing a better version of the game?
And coincidentally the better version was released in America not Australia.

"Copying Americans" is a silly debate when their version of the game is simply better or prefferred.

Why do people insist on misinterpreting me even after I spell it out to them?

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

Just want to say that you padded that list out simply by supplying opposites and rewording the same thing. Namely:




Pretty samey to me.

There's a similar thing going on with your talk about top and low tiers getting stronger and weaker, but that makes slightly more sense because a top tier buff doesn't necessarily mean a low tier nerf.

I dont have an opinion in this discussion. Just wanted to point that out because it was a strange argument that you might want to clarify or edit out.

Let's see:
Advantage for long-time players (bad) - Long time players will have an understanding of move alterations between the versions, thus improving their ability to combo, select moves in situations etc. Name this Factor A.
Disadvantage for new-comers (bad) - People new to NTSC will not know where to DI certain moves, which moves are now unable to be meteor-canceled, fail at stringing their own combos etc. Name this Factor B.

If both Factor A and B exist then both are different as neither Factor A or B require eachother to be true.

Favours veterans over newer players (bad)
This is more to do with the scene than individual matches.

Low tiers seem nerfed in PAL, though nowhere near the extent of top tiers. Generally they have slightly better weight, but weaker/worse attacks.

I'd say they aren't nerfs for low tiers at all. Between the ability to survive longer, and the ability to not be cheaped by stupid things like fairs into dair with Marth from 0% they are for the most part buffed in PAL with the exception of Mario for being lighter, shorter upB and shorter second jump. Link can't spike with UpB but he gets much less owned by top tiers, so I would call this at least neutral.

 

[EverAlert]

"Not being as gayed" isn't an ability/buff, it's an effect and the point of another character's nerf.

Mario's Up B doesn't change. Also I didn't see anything about his double jump changing in there. (This actually helps your point, just saying though.)

Also your arguments still basically amount to "veterans know more" and "newcomers know less". They imply each other. Although I don't really see the point of the argument, newcomers by nature will know less than veterans regardless of the version.

>_>

 

[luke_atyeo]

the point being made here, is that if I were to say fire is hotter then ice, it would also imply that ice is colder then fire, therefore I wouldnt also have to say, ice is colder then fire, and vice versa

 

[Pantsmann]

it's still a good point. new players will actually be playing a game which is slightly different to the one they wanted, they might be turned away by the fact that they have to learn all the new differences. that's definately a bad thing. i can see many players being frustrated by NTSC sheik and fox's upsmash.

also if we change to ntsc then lots of us will have to get used to the new version, putting the scene backwards as a whole for a while for no particular reason, unless you believe that playing ntsc will make us all better somehow. i mean yes there are some people who are already used to it, but not everybody is and you'd be giving an unfair disadvantage to all of those people until they can catch up to everybody who's been playing ntsc for years.

 

[CAOTIC]

Why are people talking about PAL and NTSC like they are completely different games, lol? Give a new player NTSC and PAL and they won't be able to tell the differences. I think the differences are being overstated. Fox/Marth/Sheik/Falco/Peach, etc are still the best characters in the game, nerfed or not and that highlights how subtle the differences really are.

 

[Sieg]

I believe that having NCST as a standard would be great for the metagame in a whole, as it's become pretty stagnated tbh.

I think it'd be good for everyone to learn a new style of play, it might get some people practicing harder again.

EDIT: @Cao, that's the funny thing, even after the PAL nerf those characters were still top tier lol.

 

[King Kong]

I had a big argument here. But meh. Anything to keep people interested in the scene I suppose.

peace out

 

[luke_atyeo]

I voted for ntsc because ganon was nerfed soooo much in pal, ganon for god tier.

 

[S.D]

Why are people talking about PAL and NTSC like they are completely different games, lol? Give a new player NTSC and PAL and they won't be able to tell the differences. I think the differences are being overstated. Fox/Marth/Sheik/Falco/Peach, etc are still the best characters in the game, nerfed or not and that highlights how subtle the differences really are.

I agree with Dave.

Also people are talking about the buffs of top tier in NTSC, but remember PAL strengthens other top tiers like Peach, Puff and Icies by nerfing the rest of the OP cast. The so called 'balance' they tried to achieve is merely slanted towards other characters instead.