SummonerAU
Smash Lord
That is assuming both players approach. But in a situation where both players approach, you would be right.
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[NSW] Hunter Valley Smash - Back in business!
- Thread starter Zero
- Start date
M
+9999999999
Well, if only one player approaches, that person isn't as likely as the other to be bombarded with bombs anyway.
S.D
Smash Master
Gah, that 70 ledge grab rule has been a source of controversy for some time now.
I remember debating this way back when the Americans were deciding whether or not to adopt if from Japan.
Honestly I can't see how the 70 ledge grab rule applies to Sydney/NSW. I'm yet to play a planker/kedge camper in this state. Why try fixing what isn't broken?
We don't need it... yet.
I think it's a valid rule but should only be emplyed by a TO when they actually SEE A NEED.
I remember debating this way back when the Americans were deciding whether or not to adopt if from Japan.
Honestly I can't see how the 70 ledge grab rule applies to Sydney/NSW. I'm yet to play a planker/kedge camper in this state. Why try fixing what isn't broken?
We don't need it... yet.
I think it's a valid rule but should only be emplyed by a TO when they actually SEE A NEED.
tedeth
Smash Master
Next time you play D3 against me SD, you will want this rule enforced to the letter. 
Countering cheap with cheaper is the only way to go lol.
And there's no point picking out of 3 stages randomly, it'll just be a waste of time if there are stage cancels.
But yeah I think norfair and pictochat can be added to the CP list.
Countering cheap with cheaper is the only way to go lol.
And there's no point picking out of 3 stages randomly, it'll just be a waste of time if there are stage cancels.
But yeah I think norfair and pictochat can be added to the CP list.
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
eh? Wouldn't he be moving towards the player who's 'more' likely to be bombarded with bombs and then get hit. Unless the bombs aim at players, standing still gives you a higher chance of not being hit by objects not aimed at you.
That's it from me tonight
Jazz77vivi
Smash Journeyman
Lol, all this talk of counterpicking and suchhas gotten me so confused.
I just plan on sitting there saying, "Can I pick this stage?" lulz
I just plan on sitting there saying, "Can I pick this stage?" lulz
Just throwing this out there Zero:
Do you have your own Stage Ruleset you'd like to try? First Hunter tourney, etc, etc.
Norfair + 70 ledge grab rule would make it not an instant win for metaknight... perhaps.
Meteor talked to me about Sonic's stage (Green Hill Zone?) as a potential CP, at least a better one than Yoshi's Island melee, which relating to YI, I agree...
As a real counterpick...
It isn't a commonly picked, and it has walk offs, but it's design does allow for some character advantages (Link/TL).
My biggest issue is slopes though. Slopes cut down approach options significantly, as the "low ground" is so good in smash.
I find it kinda lol that both myself and Cobalt were like "Jungle Japes shouldn't be a CP, it's epic broken with Falco", yet everyone else wants it
.
I'd say everyone is fine with Picto being moved; people want Norfair, I'm all for proving its broken. But if the 70 ledge grab rule is in effect, maybe not (remember someone could get 700 ledge grabs in one match, but as long as the match doesn't end by the timer, the winner remains); Pirate Ship has mild controversy, I've played matches on the stage many times in tournaments without much issue; Jungle Japes is uber broken; Argue Corneria guys..
Bjay: Zero asked for me to help him for the rules/stage list.
Meteor talked to me about Sonic's stage (Green Hill Zone?) as a potential CP, at least a better one than Yoshi's Island melee, which relating to YI, I agree...
As a real counterpick...
It isn't a commonly picked, and it has walk offs, but it's design does allow for some character advantages (Link/TL).
My biggest issue is slopes though. Slopes cut down approach options significantly, as the "low ground" is so good in smash.
I find it kinda lol that both myself and Cobalt were like "Jungle Japes shouldn't be a CP, it's epic broken with Falco", yet everyone else wants it
.I'd say everyone is fine with Picto being moved; people want Norfair, I'm all for proving its broken. But if the 70 ledge grab rule is in effect, maybe not (remember someone could get 700 ledge grabs in one match, but as long as the match doesn't end by the timer, the winner remains); Pirate Ship has mild controversy, I've played matches on the stage many times in tournaments without much issue; Jungle Japes is uber broken; Argue Corneria guys..
Bjay: Zero asked for me to help him for the rules/stage list.
My maybe is a "possibly."
If I can go, could you house me please Sam if it is possible ^^
If I can go, could you house me please Sam if it is possible ^^
oic.
Toby.
Smash Master
Luigis mansion and Norfair are absolutely rediculous if somebody goes metakngiht. The ledge grab rule wont help norfair out because all the metaknight player has to do is win before the timer runs out...which is very easy on that stage.
Plus the 70 ledge grab rule was designed for 10 minute matches. Methinks we need a smaller number.
Plus the 70 ledge grab rule was designed for 10 minute matches. Methinks we need a smaller number.
S.D
Smash Master
Corneria should be in.
Really no reason why it shouldn't be imo.
The lasers from the ships don't even have knockback anymore for christs sake. It was a CP in melee where it was far more imbalanced than it is now, it's even harder to effectively camp the lower part of the stage.
I have zero issue with Corneria. Norfair is fine and dandy too, and even with Falco's godliness there I'd keep Japes.
Really no reason why it shouldn't be imo.
The lasers from the ships don't even have knockback anymore for christs sake. It was a CP in melee where it was far more imbalanced than it is now, it's even harder to effectively camp the lower part of the stage.
I have zero issue with Corneria. Norfair is fine and dandy too, and even with Falco's godliness there I'd keep Japes.
Harder to effectively camp on the lower part?
No, not really. The only characters that can even get past that camping are Snake, Olimar, Diddy and Peach.
And many many many characters have infinites on the wall now.
And if a character is unbelievably godly on a stage, meaning in a proper competitive match there is close to zero chance of winning. It's either going to be Falco dittos on the stage, extreme amounts of luck, or the opponent losing.
Ledge grap rule for 50 in a 7 minute arena is probably reasonable.
No, not really. The only characters that can even get past that camping are Snake, Olimar, Diddy and Peach.
And many many many characters have infinites on the wall now.
And if a character is unbelievably godly on a stage, meaning in a proper competitive match there is close to zero chance of winning. It's either going to be Falco dittos on the stage, extreme amounts of luck, or the opponent losing.
Ledge grap rule for 50 in a 7 minute arena is probably reasonable.
Toby.
Smash Master
You're just too manly for words sam.
Infinites raises an interesting question though. At least in corneria you can fight on top to avoid them. Why do we still play on shadow moses, where you cant go anywhere to escape infinites from half the cast?
Infinites raises an interesting question though. At least in corneria you can fight on top to avoid them. Why do we still play on shadow moses, where you cant go anywhere to escape infinites from half the cast?
M
+9999999999
Probably because it's THE stage to pick against a Meta Knight.
and infinites are against walls, its not too hard to avoid walls :D
Browny
Smash Hater
shadow moses in banned in every single respectable tourney ever held in the USA
theres a good reason why
theres a good reason why
M
+9999999999
SO, coming to a conclusion from this stage discussion, I'd have to say the best set of counterpick stages for this tourney, would best be:
Brinstar
Castle Siege [D]
Corneria [D]
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Green Hill Zone [D]
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Lylat Cruise
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
I'm personally still unconvinced on Corneria, but if the majority don't see the issue, it's their problem if it comes back to haunt them.
Also this is only going going to be a somewhat experimental list anyway, right? We can see what impact is made during the tournament, and make necessary changes for those in the future.
Brinstar
Castle Siege [D]
Corneria [D]
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Green Hill Zone [D]
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Lylat Cruise
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
I'm personally still unconvinced on Corneria, but if the majority don't see the issue, it's their problem if it comes back to haunt them.
Also this is only going going to be a somewhat experimental list anyway, right? We can see what impact is made during the tournament, and make necessary changes for those in the future.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Let's face it though as well. Some of these stages aren't that great, but then it's everybody's own decision as to what stages they pick. So mostly, even if the stages that leave a bad taste in your mouth are available, the likelyhood of them being chosen is low anyway.
No way am I accepting Luigi's Mansion.
Nor Green Hill Zone.
Nor Green Hill Zone.
Toby.
Smash Master
luigis is demonic.
the problem with keeping shadow moses as a meta CP is that every single metaknight already knows to ban it.
Its just a really bad stage. its GOOD for the pokemon because they kill well vertically and it completely nullifies ivysaurs major weakness, but I still say it should be banned. Its just too exploitable.
the problem with keeping shadow moses as a meta CP is that every single metaknight already knows to ban it.
Its just a really bad stage. its GOOD for the pokemon because they kill well vertically and it completely nullifies ivysaurs major weakness, but I still say it should be banned. Its just too exploitable.
S.D
Smash Master
Shadow Moses is a total joke as Browny said. It's not even that bad for metaknight, he has a dtilt lock on the walls which he can finish with a fresh d smash if it breaks and a range of upward kill options. Moses banned obviously because it is just stupid in general. People whine about walk off stages but the complete opposite is just as bad. Stupid stage, banned everywhere else, shoudl be banned here.
Luigi's should be in too. And if you don't want to get infinited against a wall on Corneria be good enough not to fall into the trap...
Idc about Green Hill Zone but Zero I would like to see you taking more control over these stage lists rather than letting Shaya dictate. Save that for Shaya's tournaments.
50 ledge grabs in 7 minutes? I think it would need to be tested before implemented, but even so it probably shouldn't affect the outcome unless someone really does camp and run down the timer.
Meteor's list looked ok but I didn't really comb it to see if anything was missing.
I like the 3 stage starter stage striking thing though. Good idea.
Luigi's should be in too. And if you don't want to get infinited against a wall on Corneria be good enough not to fall into the trap...
Idc about Green Hill Zone but Zero I would like to see you taking more control over these stage lists rather than letting Shaya dictate. Save that for Shaya's tournaments.
50 ledge grabs in 7 minutes? I think it would need to be tested before implemented, but even so it probably shouldn't affect the outcome unless someone really does camp and run down the timer.
Meteor's list looked ok but I didn't really comb it to see if anything was missing.
I like the 3 stage starter stage striking thing though. Good idea.
Toby.
Smash Master
Luigis has a whole range of exploitable qualities as well. Especially for metaknight. But I'm more concerned about shadow moses than anything else.
Green Hill Zone is meh. It becomes a huge camp fest once somebody hits the spinny things. Once again the pokemon **** on it but I just thing it places too much emphasis on turtling your way into the best defensive position.
Green Hill Zone is meh. It becomes a huge camp fest once somebody hits the spinny things. Once again the pokemon **** on it but I just thing it places too much emphasis on turtling your way into the best defensive position.
Jazz77vivi
Smash Journeyman
well, i cant help, because when we play, the only stages that i refuse to play are Hanenbow, 75 Metres, Mario Bros, Flat Zone 2 and New Pork City...
I pick all the other stages >.>
I pick all the other stages >.>
M
+9999999999
Okayyyyyy, so the current counterpick list would now look a little like...
Brinstar
Castle Siege [D]
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Lylat Cruise
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Corneria [D] (?)
If it's this then looks like I may have to just cp Pirate Ship on everyone and make a living under the sea.
Brinstar
Castle Siege [D]
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Lylat Cruise
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Corneria [D] (?)
If it's this then looks like I may have to just cp Pirate Ship on everyone and make a living under the sea.
S.D
Smash Master
I know it's exploitable
I don't know how for MK but I do for others...
Fact is stagecraft is part of the game, it's what adds a layer of depth that brawl often lacks. The more diverse the CP list the more interesting the game.
M
+9999999999
S.D
Smash Master
Tim if you're out there is there any chance of you helping with hosting?
Not 100% how many people I can host at this point.
Not 100% how many people I can host at this point.
isthattim?
Smash Ace
*emerges from the dark
hmmmm
could only be one or two people,
i live with my gf now btw
will get back to everyone
edit: who else is heaps into 2d fighters atm?
hmmmm
could only be one or two people,
i live with my gf now btw
will get back to everyone
edit: who else is heaps into 2d fighters atm?
Toby.
Smash Master
I agree about stagecraft being important, but I dont necessarily think that its always a good thing. Basically I dont think stages that encourage massively campy stagecraft are a boon to tournament play. Not all sctagecraft is good.
But I really dont mind as long as shadow moses is gone.
But I really dont mind as long as shadow moses is gone.
Does this 2d fighter include Garou?
S.D
Smash Master
So I assume you're coming to this tourney then?
Any help with lifts or housing would be good coz i can't drive everyone.
I'll be coming to this.
I see there has been some stage list discussion, I don't really have time to go through it ATM but will later. From what I see of MTRs list it looks good and the 3 started stages idea I like too (assumes they are FD, battlefield and smashville as I see the other starters in the CP list)
@SD
If at all possible have you got room to house me as well. I don't get much opportunity to catch up with you and turtle. It would be great to get some melée games in too, I think I only played one game with you at teds last tourney, an failed misserably LOL.
Also, is the housing arrangments discussion for sat night, sunday night or both? Both would be great but if not I expect it to be only for sat night? This right?
I see there has been some stage list discussion, I don't really have time to go through it ATM but will later. From what I see of MTRs list it looks good and the 3 started stages idea I like too (assumes they are FD, battlefield and smashville as I see the other starters in the CP list)
@SD
If at all possible have you got room to house me as well. I don't get much opportunity to catch up with you and turtle. It would be great to get some melée games in too, I think I only played one game with you at teds last tourney, an failed misserably LOL.
Also, is the housing arrangments discussion for sat night, sunday night or both? Both would be great but if not I expect it to be only for sat night? This right?
swordsaint
Smash Master
Gords. Are you going by train? If so, are you leaving on the saturday, and staying for two or three days? Also Andrew, I'd be much obliged if you could host me as compensation for giving you those Pokemanz things.
S.D
Smash Master
Bad news humans.
I can only host 4 people maximum.
1 of which will be Comboturtle, as I already had pre-arranged plans with him.
Also I remember Ricky and Toby asking me pretty early on.
Then I think Bjay and Tedeth asked around the same time.
Then Gords and Shaya...
So many people.
Is it possible for any of the aforementioned people/those who expressed interest in staying with me to perhaps be hosted by Summoner or Tim?
I know Tim can maybe host two, and if he does those people will probably hang out with us on the Saturday night anyway - dinner + smash + drinking etc probably, although I am yet to discuss this with Tim.
I just don't have the space for any more than that sorry guys.
So in the interest of fairness I'm probably going to have to go with the people who asked first, which is looking like
Turt
Ricky
Toby
Bjay OR Tedeth
Shaya, Bjay/Tedeth, Gords you guys may need to see if you can stay with Summoner or Tim who I'm sure will be as good if not better hosts than me anyways.
I <3 you all I just can't fit you all into my small house.
I can only host 4 people maximum.
1 of which will be Comboturtle, as I already had pre-arranged plans with him.
Also I remember Ricky and Toby asking me pretty early on.
Then I think Bjay and Tedeth asked around the same time.
Then Gords and Shaya...
So many people.
Is it possible for any of the aforementioned people/those who expressed interest in staying with me to perhaps be hosted by Summoner or Tim?
I know Tim can maybe host two, and if he does those people will probably hang out with us on the Saturday night anyway - dinner + smash + drinking etc probably, although I am yet to discuss this with Tim.
I just don't have the space for any more than that sorry guys.
So in the interest of fairness I'm probably going to have to go with the people who asked first, which is looking like
Turt
Ricky
Toby
Bjay OR Tedeth
Shaya, Bjay/Tedeth, Gords you guys may need to see if you can stay with Summoner or Tim who I'm sure will be as good if not better hosts than me anyways.
I <3 you all I just can't fit you all into my small house.
tedeth
Smash Master
Weeeeelllll SD. While I believe I did in fact ask prior to Toby (according to this thread), and would very much like to play you and Turt in melee, I dont mind where I stay.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Wooooooo I have a place!!!! <3
swordsaint
Smash Master
I'm putting myself down for a wee.