[NSW] Hunter Valley Smash - Back in business!

[swordsaint]

12th. nice skipping easter sunday ftw

 

[tedeth]

I'll need someone to stay with if possible.

 

[swordsaint]

Me too. Who wants to host me, I'll be nice.

 

[Zero]

I recall S.D saying that he can host people. If you want to be up really early on the tournament day, I could possibly host you. I'm not 100% sure though, my dad is usually unsupportive of these ventures. :[

 

[swordsaint]

Wait, so for someone to host us, we have to be there to day before and sleep the ngiht before the tourney? I was thinking get there on the day and sleep that night, leave in the morning(?). Well this train that people are taking, it has to go through Central right? So I'll hop on board there if I can. ^^

 

[EverAlert]

If you want to be up really early on the tournament day, I could possibly host you.

Not to butt in, but I'm up for this if at all possible, I'd like to be at the venue as early as possible.

Well this train that people are taking, it has to go through Central right?

You're better off going to Strathfield and changing for a Newcastle train, that'll cut 30+ min off your trip. Otherwise, train starts at Central yes. In any case, closer to the 12th people will start making travel arrangements so we can all coincide our trips, any questions you have about travel will most certainly be answered then.

 

[Zero]

Oh, hosting after the trip. Since school is no concern, hosting should be fine for after the tournament as well. I'll just need to confirm it though.

 

[Jazz77vivi]

For those on the train, get a newcastle train (from wherever it is ur coming from)

Once at Newcastle, if you plan on catching the train to the meet, swap over at Newcastle and get on a train bound for Telarah. Get off at Telarah (the station after Maitland)
Newcastle to Telarah only takes 20-30 mins max

 

[tedeth]

So wait... who am I staying with?

 

[Zero]

When do you want to be hosted, before the tournament or after the tournament? Well, either way, it's fine if you want to stay with either me, Tom or Sam. Or anyone else who's hosting.

 

[EverAlert]

Again with the butting in, but... is both an option? I remember back at your superhueg meet, several people going back to Sydney were just walking dead, including me. By the time I was on a Richmond-bound train I was struggling extremely hard to stay awake just so that I didn't miss my stop.

So yeah, both nights would be very very very awesome if it's okay with you. :3

 

[Zero]

Alright, this is it, folks. The first proper, true, Hunter Valley tournament. I present to you,

Sydney Can't Beat Novacastria​

Date: 12th April 2009.

Time:Starting at 9:30am sharp. This tournament will be underneath my strict juristiction. The train will arrive at Telarah station at 8:40am on the date, and an approximately 20 minute walk will follow. We can organise lifts for people who appear at the same time, and for people who bring televisions.

Transport: The desired train leaves Central at 4:58am, arriving at Hamilton at 7:43am. Departure at 8:01am, arriving at Telarah at 8:39am.

Hosting:Although needing confirmation, Sam (SD), Tom (Summoner) and myself can possibly host people. I will be arriving at the tournament hall early (7:30am~) so be warned if you decide to stay with me.

Rules

General

• Standard rules regarding chaingrabs (no stalling so kill them as soon as possible [not like EA could kill anyone with a grab lol])
• No Infinite Dimensional Cape (Brawl)

Brawl

• A single round robin with every entrant in the draw will take place. Each set will consist of 2 matches.
• Once it has been completed, a double elimination will be taken by the top 8/10/16 players, depending on the number of entrants.

Stages

• Each player can stage cancel one neutral stage in the first round.
• The second round of the pools match is a losers counterpick.

Stage List

Neutral:
Final Destination
Battlefield
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Pokémon Stadium 1
Lylat Cruise
Halberd

Counterpick:
Delphino Plaza
Castle Siege [D]
Luigi's Mansion
Corneria [D]
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate Orpheon
Norfair
Brinstar
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Jungle Japes
Distant Planet
Green Hill Zone [D]
Pictochat
Green Greens [D]
Port Town Aero Dive
Shadow Moses [D]
Onett [D]

Melee

• A Melee double elimination tournament will take place if enough competitors (more than a third of entrants) explicitly state they wish to play Melee upon registration.
• If not, the Melee tournament will be replaced with friendlies at the end of the day. (Trust me, we will have ample time.)
• The Melee prize will be 1/4 of the pot, divided upon the winners in a ratio.

Stages

Neutral:
Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's story
Pokémon Stadium
Fountain of Dreams
Dream Land 64

Counterpick:
Brinstar
Rainbow Ride
DK64
Pokefloats
Jungle Japes
Corneria
Mute City

Comment: The reasoning behind the lessened focus on Melee is that at this present moment, there is a greater interest in competitive Brawl compared to Melee, and that due to time constraints out of my control (train times), a Meele. I apologise if I disservice anyone due to this decision, but I will stand by it for greater tournament efficiency. It's the same reasoning that I am not hosting doubles. If this tournament demonstrates that this method will leave a large section of unused time at the end, then that will justify a Melee tournament in the second HV tournament.

If there are any problems with rules, not relating to organisation, please discuss it with me.

Schedule

• So far crews are not going to be present at this tournament, due to the distance from Sydney and the time factor.
• Registration will start at 8am or whenever I arrive until 9:30am. The entry fee is $15.
• 9:30am START.
• After each round is completed, results will be processed and the next round will commence.
• A break at 12:30pm for lunch. At 1:15pm the tournament will recommence. We are planning to order pizzas using a discount from Pizza Hut if anyone is interested in that. A kitchen is also present at the hall.
• Tournament will hopefully be over before 4pm, in which time can be spent playing friendlies or preparing to return home.

Location will be edited in, I have to get a map and directions from station.

Who is coming?
Zero
Summoner
tcranter
Shaya
S.D
Bjay?
Luke ateyo
Jazz
Hawk
Munky
Alex (HV kid)
Zane (HV kid)
Defiled
EA

Will you come? Are you the first Hunter champion? Come to SCBN 1 and find out.

 

[Toby.]

I suppose I might come. These next few weeks are sort of busy for me, but I'll see what I can do.

I'd appreciate it if I could stay with one of you guys

 

[SummonerAU]

I can host 3 or so people but it'll be pretty rough (floor sleeping with some cushions etc)

Then again, who needs sleep when you can smash?

 

[Shaya]

Central? 4:58am!?

DEARRR LORD.

I will want to be housed by the mighty Zero, or S.D, as I prefer comfy floors, and fluffy cushions.

 

[tedeth]

Hey SD can I stay with you? I always seem to be saying "hey let's play melee" and people are like "no." I don't think that'll happen at your place lol.

 

[S.D]

I'll most likely be there, but I am busy as **** atm so I can't guarantee my presence 100%.

As for hosting I MIGHT/probably will be able to host a few people, which, if it goes ahead will consist of Turtle, Meteor and perhaps one or two others (Toby, Tedeth, Shaya maybe idk), I'll try and get all my commitments and **** out of the way before this time.

I'll keep everyone posted and let you know concrete ASAP with regards to hosting.

EDIT: **** it I'll come.

 

[Toby.]

Hm yes moar comfy-ness would be noice.

edit: SHOTGUN S.D

...if you end up hosting, of course

 

[Bjay]

I am now from an unable, to a maybe.

 

[Jazz77vivi]

Zero, i'll come to the hall early too to help set up. My brother (Hawk) will be there too (seeing as we live 2 mins away lul)
I'll definitely be there, WOOT! FIRST SMASH SCENE EVENT FOR ME!!!

Cant wait

 

[swordsaint]

If possible I'd like to crash at Andrew's.

 

[tedeth]

Maybe we should test out Shaya's new stage list at this tourney. It's conservative but potentially good.

 

[lampiaio]

"Team Brazil" will be there! Artur & Lampi confirmed. :D

 

[Zero]

Sounds sweet. Maybe you can show us all your awesome singing voice, since we've confirmed that there will be a PA system with a microphone.

EDIT:

Some actual tournament discussion. By the end of the week (Saturday), if there are no complaints, I am considering adopting Shaya's NSW Ruleset V1 for this tournament. It is as follows, and poses an interesting stage list.

Ruleset:
Stocks: 3
Time Limit: 7 minutes

Characters for the first match are chosen by blind pick. Requesting someone to hear the character choice from both players that is then forced can be requested.
The first match of the set is played on a Starter, picked by process of elimination (one stage strike per player/team) once characters are chosen.
The subsequent matches of the set have the Loser counterpick by the following procedure:
Winner bans stage -> Loser picks stage -> Winner picks character -> Loser picks character
The stage chosen can be either a Starter or a Counter Pick.
Matches that last the full 7 minutes have the winner determined by highest stock count first, and lowest percent damage secondly.

Stages marked by [D] are those which King Dedede cannot be played on unless agreed by both players or the opposing character is:
Jigglypuff, Mr. Game & Watch, Kirby, Meta Knight, Fox, Zero Suit Samus, Olimar, Falco or Zelda/Sheik
[Squirtle is not included due to forced switchout]
A loser who picks a [D] stage as a counterpick when the Winner of the previous match used Dedede naturally agrees that Dedede can be used on that stage [lol d3 dittos].
Infinite Dimension Cape is banned.
Match stalling is illegal; using means to stall under a stage to avoid conflict, or means of "running out the timer" if caught can result in disqualification. Match stalling through ledge grabs is restricted to 70 per match (that can be counted at the end of match status screen); if the timer runs out and the winner has over 70 ledge grabs, the match will be called in the loser's favour.

Starters (3)
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counter Picks (9)
Delfino Plaza
Pirate Ship
Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege [D]
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1


Potential Picks (10)
Pictochat
Shadow Moses [D]
Jungle Japes
Corneria [D]
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Pokemon Stadium 2
Yoshi's Island (Melee) [D]
Green Greens [D]

 

[Shaya]

I don't think many can argue that the counterpicks listed are too EVIL to be played on...
The stage list emphasis is on the first match being as neutral as possible, and having many starters, and it being played on random took away this. With stages such as Lylat being played as supposibly "neutral" when for example, Wolf cancelled Final D against Diddy, is hardly fair, and comes down to luck. Hence the stage striking and the reduction of the amount of starters.

The counter picks were all the original ex-starters, but were mostly decided as a counterpick based on this thought process:

a) the stage does not guarantee a victory for one character solely (And you wonder why there is no Rainbow Cruise?)
b) don't have any/many features that cause the player to be "fighting the stage" instead of the opponent
bi) The stage having many transformations/killing areas
bii) The stage allowing for very easy camping/avoidance of combat to run out the timer

The list has been reduced by quite a bit, to exclude stages that just about no one played (PKMN 2?) and those that don't follow the above thought process.
The potential picks list stages that I felt were borderline, stages I felt couldn't be decided by my lonesome, as they either were popular stages to counterpick or were only arguably breaking the a/b (like Pictochat could be said to have a lot of bi problems), and Norfair is so campy it's hilarious.

Anyway *runs off*.

Also the counterpick rule, which may or may not be changed back to ye old traditional I believe is better because of this logic:
The older one gives emphasis on banning stages that are good for the loser's character, instead of stages that your character do bad on.
It gave metaknight more power in the counterpicking decision.

In other words, I'm the winner of the previous match, and I pick metaknight, you then pick a character, who won't have an advantage on metaknight, but could pull off a victory on a good stage. The winner instantly bans that stage (and before it was TWO OF THEM), and you're then pretty much screwed.
While the other one does promote tier whoring to a degree, the loser still has the power to pick a stage and pick a character, rather than pretty much just being restricted to counter picking character only.

 

[SummonerAU]

1) Why is Pirate Ship included but not Japes in the counterpicks list?
Negatives for both stages that I can see

Pirate Ship: Cannonballs, low gravity, catapult, rocks,

Cannonballs: As far as I know, completely random (correct me if I'm wrong)
Low gravity: Slows the match down, campy situation
Catapult: Basically a non issue, avoidable
Rocks: Creates and opportunity for characters with large disjoints to camp the ship during this part. Also creates a walk off point and a wall for around 30-60 seconds.

Japes: Huge roof, klaptrap, fast moving water

Huge roof: Characters can stall on descent. Characters with poor horizontal KO options suffer whereas
Klaptrap: Occurs whenever a 7 is present in the seconds column of the match countdown timer.
Fast Moving Water: Creates an easy escape point from attack on the right side of screen. Bad thing for heavyweights.


2) No mention of Bowsercide rulings, should probably clear that up too.
On a side note, does Ganoncide come under the same ruling normally?

3) Can you play on a stage you have already won on in the set?

4) Could you clear up stage striking for me? Is it a ban or a cancel? (inb4 lolidiot)
If a ban, only having 3 starters promotes characters with advantages on 2 of the 3 starters. i.e Rob will always get either FD or Smashville.

/notasbigawallasIexpected

 

[Shaya]

1.
Canon balls are seeable, you aren't coerced into them, and you can simply shield or spot dodge them; unlike let's say Port Town, where a spot dodge or shield will get you killed anyway.
Low gravity is about 10 seconds
Rocks: 30 seconds is probably even a stretch, but even then, Delfino gets longer transformations that have both walls and walk off ledges (Lol)
But you're right: It is an arguable counterpick. I felt in terms of danger it was definitely the most dangerous on the list, but a lot less dangerous than some of the other stages that were once there.

In relation to Japes, it's pretty much an unlosable stage for Falco. It's many ledges promote camping in many ways. I don't see the high roof as detrimental. I think it is much more dangerous than Pirate Ship, one canonball may not kill you, one klaptrap will most likely (unless you're like meteor).

2. Good Point =)
Victory goes to whoever has the victory screen, unless it's a sudden death, where umm... You tell me what you think is appropriate.

3. No :D

4. Stage striking in this instance is that there are the three stages battlefield, final destination and smashville, player 1 picks off one, player 2 picks off another, the remaining stage is played on.
Smashville is most definitely the most neutral stage in the game. In most situations I'd say the stage will end up being on smashville.
ROB is good on many stages, and the point of the starter is to have the match as neutral as possible (i.e. as close to the "real match up" between two characters). Smashville is considerably less advantageous to ROB than Final D is. But what If I picked Falco? I'd kick off smashville, and the rob would go final d. The stage played on will not always be smashville in certain matchups because of things like this. If the stage list was to be extended further, the idea of "neutral" gets more skewed, and harder to manage. The least amount of stages the better.

 

[S.D]

3) The only was you can play on a stage you've already won on in that set is if your opponent CP's it. It happens.

I can see where you're coming from on the stage front Shaya and I agree in many aspects. However everything in the 'potential' list could pretty much be added to CP imo. Except Moses, I think we've played with that long enough in Australia.

At the very least Pictochat, Norfair and Corneria are fine. There is nothing terribly unforeseeably dangerous on these stages.

Do I have reasons? sure.

Can I be bothered explaining? no.

Maybe some other time.

 

[Shaya]

My main issue with Norfair is the ledge camping potential.

Hell the 70 ledge grab has a really high chance of just naturally being broken on that stage.

I was fine with Picto, if there isn't any contention against it should be fine.

Corneria is a stage Sydney doesn't play on enough in singles; I'm 50/50 on it.

 

[tedeth]

Apparently Wario has a 70:30 advantage over D3 on Norfair.

How can you not want it?

 

[SummonerAU]

Canon balls are seeable, you aren't coerced into them, and you can simply shield or spot dodge them; unlike let's say Port Town, where a spot dodge or shield will get you killed anyway.
Low gravity is about 10 seconds
Rocks: 30 seconds is probably even a stretch, but even then, Delfino gets longer transformations that have both walls and walk off ledges (Lol)

A period of time where you are fighting the stage where approaching is generally detrimental. I would estimate around 20 seconds would be lost to this. Rocks + Gravity + Cannonballs are almost a minute where doing nothing/dodging the stage is to your advantage. I would argue that the minute lost(with each cycle of the stage) would be enough to stop it being played in tourneys where time is an issue. Add that to the fact that it has many transformations (bi), has periods where you fight the stage (b) and it allows for the wasting of around a minute (bii) should be enough to move it from counterpicks

In relation to Japes, it's pretty much an unlosable stage for Falco. It's many ledges promote camping in many ways. I don't see the high roof as detrimental. I think it is much more dangerous than Pirate Ship, one canonball may not kill you, one klaptrap will most likely (unless you're like meteor).

As you say, its many ledges DOES promote camping but I feel that the klaptrap would be a significant turnoff to ledge camping.

Unlike Pirate Ship's cannonballs, Japes' klaptrap is away from the main fighting position which gives less 'strength' to (b).

I can't really reply to Falco's **** on Japes as I haven't actually seen many matches with Falco on Japes to begin with but I'm guessing it's basically chaingrabs to spikes and phantasm to either ledge.

 

[tedeth]

The thing is, the cannonballs will be avoid more by a better player who is more farmiliar with the stage, which is why it's a good counterpick, becuase while it doesn't give many characters a MASSIVE advantage, it can be used to take advantage of someone who is less practiced on the stage, making the counterpick more skill based than character based.

Japes however, is crazy for Falco. soo much edgecamping available. And thhe ledges we're talking about aren't the low ones, they're the high ones where klaptrap won't reach.

Also DK is pretty amazing on that stage due to cargo fthrow stage spike into water and certain death, aswell as him up b-ing out of the water quite easily, making it less dangerous for him than others.

 

[M]

Hell the 70 ledge grab has a really high chance of just naturally being broken on that stage.

So generally, the ledge rule alone should force people to be aggressive and not camp at all in norfair.

+1 for Japes as cp. Bring on the ****ing klaptraps I say!

 

[tedeth]

Wario needs no edges. He's like "zoom-zoom" all over that *****.

 

[SummonerAU]

The thing is, the cannonballs will be avoid more by a better player who is more farmiliar with the stage, which is why it's a good counterpick, becuase while it doesn't give many characters a MASSIVE advantage, it can be used to take advantage of someone who is less practiced on the stage, making the counterpick more skill based than character based.

The point I was trying to make was that the time wasted by the cannonballs and that they prevent approaching and 'fight the stage' should be enough to fall outside of Shaya's stage requirement. The fact that the better player will avoid it is completely irrelevant because they still have to avoid it and in this case, avoiding means stopping what you were doing and airdodging, spotdodging and shielding which wastes time, breaks gameplay and forces the player to 'fight the stage'.

Japes however, is crazy for Falco. soo much edgecamping available. And thhe ledges we're talking about aren't the low ones, they're the high ones where klaptrap won't reach.

The high inner edges are practically asking for Falco to eat some sort of aerial (I'm thinking Marth's fair here). If there's something I'm overlooking you can just move to the two outside platforms and duck/shield/jump his lasers.

 

[Zero]

The point I was trying to make was that the time wasted by the cannonballs and that they prevent approaching and 'fight the stage' should be enough to fall outside of Shaya's stage requirement. The fact that the better player will avoid it is completely irrelevant because they still have to avoid it and in this case, avoiding means stopping what you were doing and airdodging, spotdodging and shielding which wastes time, breaks gameplay and forces the player to 'fight the stage'.

>airdodging
>breaking gameplay
>Brawl

hahaha.

More like it forces airdodging that was going to happen anyway.

 

[tedeth]

As someone who quite likes pirate ship and has played on it a bit, I find that there is usually alot of action in spite of the cannonballs. It's not like there are massive hitboxes created by the explosions. You will usually avoid damage just by playing normally. It doesn't disrupt play as much of many of the transformations on pictochat, which everyone basically agrees is a valid counterpick.

 

[M]

Cannonballs usually hit the campers.

Players that like to approach people and more around a lot will likely not be hit.

Pictochat's hazards are very easy to avoid, you'll only hit them if your blind or if your opponent has good setups in combination with the stage.

 

[SummonerAU]

Fighting during cannonballs is a tad rash. You have to focus on your opponent, the cannonballs and judge the trajectory they'll hit at. I think it's safe to say that you're more likely to make a mistake under those circumstances than without cannonballs and this mistake will either lead to being hit with a cannonball or hit with an attack. Neither outcome is desirable to myself.

 

[M]

Fighting during cannonballs is a tad rash. You have to focus of your opponent, the cannonballs and judge the trajectory they'll hit at. I think it's safe to say that you're more likely to make a mistake under those circumstances than without cannonballs and this mistake will either lead to being hit with a cannonball or hit with an attack. Neither outcome is desirable to myself.

But the player who makes the least mistakes would be the better one, amirite?

EDIT: Zero, is it safe to assume that in the round robin, all matches will be played on the 3 neutrals? If so, are the stages picked via stagestriking or random?
EDIT2: Nvm, I should read more.