Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Kirbeh]

Alright, who's behind the bootleg W3 account?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Crash is terrible, but not terrible enough to be a bona-fide kusoge.

Wario Wario Wario I think you might have a copycat.

(Get it? Cat? Cheetahmen?

I'll get my coat...)

 

[Deleted member]

Y'all just need to appreciate bad games more, I swear to gawd.

 

[Noipoi]

Now where’s @Wapeach Wapeach Wapeach

 

[Kirbeh]

Now where’s @Wapeach Wapeach Wapeach

I call dibs.

No, I'm not actually doing it. Plz ignore this mods.

 

[SPEN18]

If you look at the remaining potential first party newcomers, the resumes for the top-of-the-barrel and most speculated picks are legitimately not any worse than the average Smash 4 or Ultimate first party newcomer. How many Smash 4 newcomers even could be classified as bona fide A-listers? That's not a slight against those characters (in fact Smash 4 was a pretty amazing crop of newcomers if you look back at it), just the reality that you don't need to set the bar unnecessarily high to have compelling inclusions that please fans, generate excitement, and contribute meaningfully to the enjoyment of the game. At least a few potential newcomers have an arguable case as A-listers, anyway (not like that distinction is altogether well-defined or meaningful besides), there are multiple series whose representation could very easily be expanded, and there are several unrepresented IPs with merits similar to others which are represented. I see absolutely zero issue crafting a first party newcomer lineup that stacks up favorably with 4 or Ult. First party picks aren't done or dying, and far from it; at its worst the contrary mentality is no more than propaganda for "hype culture" or straight-up delusion that everything is going to sustainably continue due the same course as Ult's DLC.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Y'all just need to appreciate bad games more, I swear to gawd.

This is actually really meanspirited.

The guy had strange opinions I find baffling, but let's not mock people like this.

 

[dream1ng]

Y'all just need to appreciate bad games more, I swear to gawd.

We had a legitimate discussion about Bubsy

We've done our part

 

[Louie G.]

How many Smash 4 newcomers even could be classified as bona fide A-listers?

Villager, Bowser Jr, Pac-Man, Mega Man... arguably Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer, but less so on the "hype" end of things. I get your point though, I feel like most of the biggest obligatory first party picks (of the time) were handled in Brawl with the exception of Ridley for technical reasons. And I agree, at least on paper, that Smash 4's newcomers are a pretty strong bunch. Particularly in the realm of introducing new playable series - Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Punch-Out, Xenoblade...

I feel like there's a fair bit of A or B-list potential this time around given the growth of series like Animal Crossing and Splatoon. And then the obvious evergreen options of new Pokemon or Mario characters. I do think Ultimate did a pretty spectacular job checking off the most necessary remaining boxes... Inkling / Isabelle and Ridley / K. Rool were top of the line on both ends of the spectrum, Pyra / Mythra arguably not far behind. But the Switch era has allowed several Nintendo series to grow substantially and for new characters to build notoriety and popularity. And if they want to dig a bit deeper, there's no shortage of great first party IPs that have gone underutilized that they could take advantage of.

I think when many people say we're reaching the bottom of the barrel they're internalizing whatever characters were deemed important when they began speculation. "All we need is Dixie Kong and Toad" kind of guys. This comes at the neglect of both more "modern" and rapidly growing Nintendo series and lesser represented series with no characters to show for themselves. I feel like speculation has yet to completely grow out of its old habits in this way.

 

[CannonStreak]

Y'all just need to appreciate bad games more, I swear to gawd.

I have a bad feeling about this person and the intention behind their account now.

 

[SPEN18]

Villager, Bowser Jr, Pac-Man, Mega Man... arguably Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer, but less so on the "hype" end of things. I get your point though, I feel like most of the biggest obligatory first party picks (of the time) were handled in Brawl with the exception of Ridley for technical reasons. And I agree, at least on paper, that Smash 4's newcomers are a pretty strong bunch. Particularly in the realm of introducing new playable series - Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Punch-Out, Xenoblade...

Though Jr even barely made it in, and was evidently prioritized less than Rosa. He has bounced back more recently, and I wouldn't contest you for putting him in with the core Mario cast, but I also think some outstanding potential Mario reps compare even pretty favorably with him and Rosa.

Pac-Man and Mega Man are third parties, so of course don't speak to the quality of first party reps in 4 compared to what we could get next game. Though notably they were very demanded even by some of the more Nintendo-centric crowds.

Duck Hunt and Wii Fit depend on who you ask, though I think that at the time Nintendo would have thought extremely highly of including a franchise like Wii Fit. Duck Hunt just depends on what you think of one huge hit from a few decades ago.

I do think Ultimate did a pretty spectacular job checking off the most necessary remaining boxes... Inkling / Isabelle and Ridley / K. Rool were top of the line on both ends of the spectrum, Pyra / Mythra arguably not far behind.

I agree that, looking back on it, Ult did an overall good job with the first party newcomer slots it had. But the shortage of first party newcomer slots was definitely felt, and this combined with EiH meant several issues and/or opportunities for expansion that people were already clamoring about post-4, like the Zelda representation for example, were left unresolved.

And if they want to dig a bit deeper, there's no shortage of great first party IPs that have gone underutilized that they could take advantage of.

IMO lots of people put the bar too high for new first party IPs these days, especially when nobody seems to question the places of more niche IPs that actually are on the roster, from Kid Icarus to Mother. Sometimes feels like a double standard, I gotta admit.

I think when many people say we're reaching the bottom of the barrel they're internalizing whatever characters were deemed important when they began speculation. "All we need is Dixie Kong and Toad" kind of guys.

That's part of it, for sure. Different expectations when it comes to number and nature of third party reps is also a significant piece of it.

This comes at the neglect of both more "modern" and rapidly growing Nintendo series and lesser represented series with no characters to show for themselves.

True, though people also want characters from longstanding established franchises like Kirby, Zelda, or Pokemon. I guess the neglect is fairly universal...

 

[Noipoi]

All I know is that if we don't get Waluigi next time I'll cry

 

[DarthEnderX]

You guys get tilted pretty easily...

 

[dream1ng]

Saying we're running out of characters, saying we're running out of a-listers, and saying what we have now is comparable to what we had before (first party-wise) are three different arguments that are all being conflated together.

 

[DarthEnderX]

First party-wise:
No, we're not running out of characters.
Yes, we're running out of/already out of A-listers.
I don't understand what 'what we have now is comparable to what we had before' means.

 

[fogbadge]

You guys get tilted pretty easily...

well i live in a copy of yoshi's tilt and tumble (universal gravitation)

 

[BritishGuy54]

The censorship talk makes me wonder if Smash will ever end up T again instead of E10. I think the series is going to start leaning all the more heavily on third-parties given the remaining first-party lineup is... well it's alright, but, like, if Waluigi, BWD, maybe Dixie are your heavy-hitters... they're fine choices but they're not exactly Nintendo's a-team.

So if the next game is made from the outset with the knowledge and intent of higher focus on third-parties, just to give themselves creative latitude given the amount who skew somewhat more violent/gun-oriented/suggestive (several of whom make up some of the most popular), whether they might opt for T.

Probably not. I don't think E10 inhibits them that much, and I doubt they want to sacrifice a more inclusive rating. That said, I don't think T really holds them back either in terms of audience-size - I mean Smash has been T before, and there are countless successful games with an even higher rating - but still. Maybe if it conflicted more with realizing certain characters, but it seems unlikely. I mean if Bayo can work...

It's also worth noting that Smash has always (afaik) been rated A in Japan, CERO's lowest rating. Which is kind of wild, considering for his neutral special, Joker wields a gun. But that can explain why they're so picky about the upskirts.

I suppose it's more just wishful thinking, in that, ideally, characters could be implemented as faithfully as possible, and nothing/no one gets omitted.
Plus, the higher the rating, the better the chance we get the crotch chop...

Being fair, Nintendo has plenty of choices that aren’t the ones you just listed. Looking at the games that have released recently, it’s clear that new Pokémon/Fire Emblem/Xenoblade character(s) are probably going to happen. Paper Mario would be a solid choice for the Mario series. That’s not even getting into possible echo fighters.

Smash is weird with rating systems. It’s A for CERO (everyone), E10 for ESRB (older kids), and 12 for PEGI (Teens, basically).

 

[Lionfranky]

More over, these fixes just change the outfit a bit. The ESRB's concerns actually affect the moveset.

And it's tricky to discern exactly where Smash is with guns atm. Clearly there's leeway not present during Brawl (which ironically was T), what with Joker and all. I know the argument that Joker's gun is a model, but that's never specified in Ultimate... and the rating board is going to base their rating solely on what is in Ultimate. Like, were Doom Slayer's BFG referenced, but they never specified what it stood for... they'd probably be able to get away with that.

In any case, even with wherever the line is now with firearms, there are probably still some restrictions they'd be rid of with T instead of E10, which could benefit characters like Chief, Slayer, Dante, a RE character, plus any potentially left-field, probably western picks w/ guns, just in terms of latitude provided. And even though it's not a gun, this would probably also help Travis. In theory Scorpion benefits too, but... Scorpion ain't getting in what with MK in Japan.

Pictured: Suda51 being Suda51

Again, it's probably more a hope than a realistic thought. Luckily, I think any of these characters can still work perfectly fine with the current rating... which is probably part of why it won't change.

Though to the quote, I've no doubt CERO is a priority for them, but NA is by far their biggest market, so I reckon the ESRB is no afterthought either.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - ESRB

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Everyone 10+ - This is a fighting game in which players engage in brawls with characters from Nintendo and third-party franchises.

www.esrb.org

In case you are doubting that they are talking about "realistic" firearm...

ESRB Ratings Guides, Categories, Content Descriptors

Use the ESRB video game ratings guide to understand how the rating system works and how to use it to select appropriate video games and apps for your family

www.esrb.org

Go there and try to find content descriptor that has firearm. There isn't. I worked on game rating before. Contrary to popular belief, firearm doesn't factor into actual rating at all.

"But, Sakurai said he was concerned about firearm when it came to oversea rating."

He also said he couldn't figure how to turn Villager and Ridley into fighters. He talked about oversea rating when he wasn't that used to foreign rating. By now, realistic firearm shouldn't be a dealbreaker at all.

 

[Geno Boost]

Bye Sheik, TL and YL

Tbh I wouldn’t feel bad for them being cut Zelda and link were already in smash there was no need for multiple version of them instead of other Zelda characters as they were added for sake of transformation gimmick and clones

 

[Will]

Tbh I wouldn’t feel bad for them being cut Zelda and link were already in smash there was no need for multiple version of them instead of other Zelda characters as they were added for sake of transformation gimmick and clones

Zelda and Sheik came in one package, how many times do I need to post this? Leave that ninja ***** alone.

Also, out of all three Links, I personally find that Toon Link and Young Link have the best controls and playstyle. If you even consider forcing me to use only Rune Bombs, I will make it my personal mission to advocate the removal of Wolf, another semi-clone added for the sake of cloning. Or whatever nonsense you’re on about.

 

[Geno Boost]

Zelda and Sheik came in one package, how many times do I need to post this? Leave that ninja ***** alone.

Also, out of all three Links, I personally find that Toon Link and Young Link have the best controls and playstyle. If you even consider forcing me to use only Rune Bombs, I will make it my personal mission to advocate the removal of Wolf, another semi-clone added for the sake of cloning. Or whatever nonsense you’re on about.

Toon link and young link have a lot of potential to be unique yet they barely did anything with it
wolf is at least a different character it’s not adding the same character twice also a villain

 

[Gorgonzales]

So, as much as this has already been brought up numerous times, what stages would you like to see in the next Smash Bros.?

EDIT: We have reached 900 pages!

I forgot to say this earlier, but a Yoshi stage that takes place on Raphael the Raven's Moon would be so incredibly fun (and trippy). Think Mario Galaxy, but you can see the entire planet. This scene would be absolutely breathtaking if it was recreated in HD.

In the original fight, ground pounding one of those pillars would make it punch out from the other side, which is how you damage the boss. I'd like it if it worked similarly in Smash where you could secure hilarious KO's by using a Smash attack on the pillar and having it hit someone on the other side of the moon who wasn't paying enough attention. The whole thing could be my go-to free for all stage if it made it in.

 

[Will]

Toon link and young link have a lot of potential to be unique yet they barely did anything with it
wolf is at least a different character it’s not adding the same character twice also a villain

So are the links? If you’ve played the games, you know each incarnation is different.

is unfortunately, just a dude.

is a depressed war orphan who lost everything he worked hard for and died in the lost woods probably with so many regrets it took another dude () to fix his problems so he could pass on

is a family man. He’s the only dude who had a family. Dude canonically ****ed. He’s also in general one of the happiest Links.

It’s not their fault Sakurai and his team had to take creative liberties to include them. Their special moveset may have similarities, but the characters’ and attacks’ properties are different enough on their own. Why not do an approach similar to Ganondorf where they started small by modifying their A attacks? You sure weren’t complaining when they did that.

 

[fogbadge]

So are the links? If you’ve played the games, you know each incarnation is different.

is unfortunately, just a dude.

son of a knight who followed his father's path by his own choice and often kept quiet so not to disappoint people's expectations in him. and carried out his duty with extreme loyalty

 

[Will]

son of a knight who followed his father's path by his own choice and often kept quiet so not to disappoint people's expectations in him. and carried out his duty with extreme loyalty

That’s better than what I could’ve said.

 

[SPEN18]

Saying we're running out of characters, saying we're running out of a-listers, and saying what we have now is comparable to what we had before (first party-wise) are three different arguments that are all being conflated together.

If the third one is true (i.e. that the characters they could add now are generally just as good as who they added in 4 or Ult), then the first one is definitely false, and the second one is practically a non-issue regardless of its accuracy, provided you agree that the average quality of newcomer in 4 or Ult was acceptable.

 

[Sucumbio]

I will make it my personal mission to advocate the removal of Wolf, another semi-clone added for the sake of cloning. Or whatever nonsense you’re on about.

You take that back! We already have barely any Star Fox these days and he's my favorite! Ignore this Nintendo Wolf must come back!

 

[Deleted member]

Calling it: Mario returns in it as a veteran.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I agree Smash 4 didn't have the greatest newcomers. Personally didn't feel too many of them. However, Brawl just had amazing newcomers that where long overdue.

There are still quite a lot of hype worthy characters left I feel. Certainly enough to challenge Smash 4. Ultimate is harder to top with K.Rool, Ridley, Sora, Sephiroth, you name it. But I'd be able to make a general list that's at least Smash 4 worthy.

Dixie Kong / Cranky Kong
Bandana Dee
Noah / Mio
Impa
Monster Hunter
Knuckles / Tails
New Pokemon lol
Tom Nook
Waluigi
Geno
Isaac
Crash Bandicoot
Lloyd Irving

And that's already quite damn solid to me.

 

[Oracle Link]

Toon link and young link have a lot of potential to be unique yet they barely did anything with it
wolf is at least a different character it’s not adding the same character twice also a villain

Why should the two classic links be unique i mean both use the wepons they use in their games!
Meanwhile "Link" Uses a boomerang which is a rare pretty useless weapon in BOTw and TOTK!

 

[MasterCheef]

I agree Smash 4 didn't have the greatest newcomers. Personally didn't feel too many of them. However, Brawl just had amazing newcomers that where long overdue.

There are still quite a lot of hype worthy characters left I feel. Certainly enough to challenge Smash 4. Ultimate is harder to top with K.Rool, Ridley, Sora, Sephiroth, you name it. But I'd be able to make a general list that's at least Smash 4 worthy.

.
.
My list ;
Noah / Mio = assuming no FP3
Master Chief = assuming no FP3
Ahri = assuming no FP3
Ganondorf = TOTK
Officer Howard – Astral Chain
Impa
Tabuu
New Xenoblade 4 rep
next gen Monolith Soft unannounced title
I think we will get a bunch of new characters of new releases of well established franchises mostly JRPGs

 

[Garteam]

Calling it: Mario returns in it as a veteran.

Mario is a scrimbo that no one knows or likes. All he does is punch and he's another unnecessary Nintendo rep. You will be getting Schrafer McDonald from the iconic PS2 JRPG Peter and the Big Sword, which is one of the most iconic games of all time according to people on the internet.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Let's play a small game: Masahiro Sakurai let You decide eight characters for an hypothetical new Fighter's Pass.
The twist is that all of the new faces doesn't originate from the video games, finally breaking the stigma of Smash only being for gaming.
One per Company. Let the challenge begin!!!

 

[Sucumbio]

Dixie Kong / Cranky Kong
Bandana Dee
Noah / Mio
Impa
Monster Hunter
Knuckles / Tails
New Pokemon lol
Tom Nook
Waluigi
Geno
Isaac
Crash Bandicoot
Lloyd Irving

I see the bolded getting in the next game. Emphasis on BWD, Crash, Geno and Waluigi, and Dixie is a definite possibility but less likely to me than the others unless DKC gets another game.

For the others tho tbh I can't really gauge Noa/Mio due to having no knowledge of the franchise or their true popularity. Impa and Tom Nook both seem like less likely still, and Lloyd and Isaac really feel somehow farther behind still and the MH being the least likely of that whole list. More likely to me are Alucard and Master Chief/Doomguy. Still I'd be happy with literally anyone one your list getting in cause they're solid choices.

Let's play a small game: Masahiro Sakurai let You decide eight characters for an hypothetical new Fighter's Pass.
The twist is that all of the new faces doesn't originate from the video games, finally breaking the stigma of Smash only being for gaming.
One per Company. Let the challenge begin!!!

Hmmm nah I ain't gonna do that.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Let's play a small game: Masahiro Sakurai let You decide eight characters for an hypothetical new Fighter's Pass.
The twist is that all of the new faces doesn't originate from the video games, finally breaking the stigma of Smash only being for gaming.
One per Company. Let the challenge begin!!!

 

[RouffWestie]

Let's play a small game: Masahiro Sakurai let You decide eight characters for an hypothetical new Fighter's Pass.
The twist is that all of the new faces doesn't originate from the video games, finally breaking the stigma of Smash only being for gaming.
One per Company. Let the challenge begin!!!

1. Nine (Sonic Prime)
2. Eddie the Mean Old Yeti (DKC Cartoon)
3. Julia Belmont (Castlevania Nocturne)
4. Jesse & James (Pokemon)
5. Dai (Dragon Quest: AoD)
6. Escargoon (Kirby Right Back At Ya)
7. Rick Wheeler (F-Zero GP Legend)
8. Rebecca (Cyberpunk Edgerunners)

Yeah, that works, I think I understood the assignment properly.

 

[FazDude]

1. Nine (Sonic Prime)
2. Eddie the Mean Old Yeti (DKC Cartoon)
3. Julia Belmont (Castlevania Nocturne)
4. Jesse & James (Pokemon)
5. Dai (Dragon Quest: AoD)
6. Escargoon (Kirby Right Back At Ya)
7. Rick Wheeler (F-Zero GP Legend)
8. Rebecca (Cyberpunk Edgerunners)

Yeah, that works, I think I understood the assignment properly.

I would be 100% on board with Team Rocket as a fighter ong

 

[Deleted member]

Mario is a scrimbo that no one knows or likes. All he does is punch and he's another unnecessary Nintendo rep. You will be getting Schrafer McDonald from the iconic PS2 JRPG Peter and the Big Sword, which is one of the most iconic games of all time according to people on the internet.

Still though...

 

[Oracle Link]

Let's play a small game: Masahiro Sakurai let You decide eight characters for an hypothetical new Fighter's Pass.
The twist is that all of the new faces doesn't originate from the video games, finally breaking the stigma of Smash only being for gaming.
One per Company. Let the challenge begin!!!

Okay!

I tryed to be pretty unbiased while also focusing on cartoony/Fun characters!

Son Goku (kid)

Spongebob

Donald/ Duck Avenger

Batman

Bugs Bunny

Spiderman

Darth Vader

Mickey Mouse

Granted theres a lot of disney here but vader and spidey existed long before disney bought marvel and lucas film!
Having the duck Avenger be a stance change for donald and That gokus a kid is the only bias i included!

 

[Sucumbio]

Rebecca (Cyberpunk Edgerunners)

My favorite character in the show! Now I want this dang .. all this recent talk about what's too "mature" for Smash, Cyberpunk 2077 definitely hits some pretty strong notes maturity wise... Heh.