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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gorgonzales

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Got two Switch games for Christmas, Mario Rabbids sparks of hope and Crash bandicoot 4.


My take away from Sparks of hope so far is that i think it would be funny if Edge was a future Mario character in smash


Easire Mario RPG rep than Geno.
Not against the idea of Edge getting in (I think a Mario + Rabbids rep is honestly warranted), but I don't see it happening before a regular Rabbid gets in.

I think having base Rabbids in the game as playable characters would be really fun, not only going off their moveset potential but also the fact that Smash doesn't really have a fighter that's a total idiot. I guess you could say "but what about Wario and Dedede?" but Wario's more of a selfish, crude jerk while Dedede is goofy but knows how to hold his own; they're both competent characters when the time calls for it. Rabbids are anything but competent. Aside from the Mario-cosplying Rabbids in Kingdom Battle and whatnot, I don't think they even have a single brain cell in those babbling heads of theirs.

I feel like designing a moveset for them would be incredibly fun from their personality alone. Their forward aerial could have them throw their entire face downward (instead of, y'know, using your hands like an ordinary person would), any items they grab are carried in their mouth, and their run cycle could have them moronically propel themselves forward with their legs first and literally everything else trailing behind, with the dash attack being them bumping into the opponent like they're a concrete wall and rebounding, falling flat on their back.



Their grab could also use a plunger... but not as the initial grab animation, where they choose to use their hands instead. They use the plunger for their pummel, where they bonk the opponent on the head with the soft rubbery part of it. They don't tend to think these things through.



Nick All-Stars gets to have Ren and Stimpy (and Patrick) as the bumbling buffoons of their roster, which kind of made me realize how lacking Smash is in someone of that department. I suppose there's no better candidate for the position!
 
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Wonder Smash

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Firstly, I would be happy to see any of these characters. Even Muddy Mole. So this isn't coming from a place of some bias against them. However,

1) Brawl was a good time to add GS, but there were only so many spots to go around. In terms of the unique newcomers we got, I do understand why they got in over Isaac. Maybe with one or two more, it'd be him. And I think the same could've been said for Ultimate, especially given how limited base was, and how they were focusing on the ballot, in which Isaac seemingly did well.

2) Takamaru would be fun and different from what we have - which is a bit surprising that we don't really have a traditional Japanese character. Having said that, Sakurai has said why he's been excluded, and a game and a VC release have since happened and it's not been enough. So barring a new game, I don't see him getting in. I hope one day some dev can convince Nintendo to give them a crack at the IP.

3) I imagine Astral Chain will get in. The competition for first-parties is pretty light right now, and it's new and successful enough. And probably will continue. Good luck on the other two.

4) Once we start actually getting characters, and a lot of them are first-parties because it's base, people will refocus on them. The fanbase was just left with like three years of third-parties and promo picks, so we're largely stuck in that mode.
Sakurai said that about Takamaru years before but that could change by the next game. Seeing how Smash continue to grow and how many series gain more popularity through Smash, adding Takamaru probably won't be as much of an issue as it was back then, especially now that the game has a little more exposure outside of the Japan. Of course, this depends on whether or not it'll be released again on the next console but it could be a good start for now.

I don't want to think Isaac missed his opportunity during Brawl and think he has a chance to get in compared to if he was a third-party character.
 
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Sucumbio

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I wouldn’t call drakengard a flagship franchise yet it has 6 games compared to dragon quest, final fantasy, kingdom hearts, space invaders that have morbillion games
I'd actually keep Space Invaders as a Taito rep like Gun Fight etc keeping it in with the other arcade classics (1974-1984) and save SE for actual SE stuff seeing as they had nothing to do with the arcade game just they bought Taito. Nier or yeah the whole Drakengard series on the other hand is far more likely for square to promote. I'd say if an arcade classic gets in Smash it'll be Frogger or Q-bert.
 

Opossum

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I wouldn’t call drakengard a flagship franchise yet it has 6 games compared to dragon quest, final fantasy, kingdom hearts, space invaders that have morbillion games
At some point you need to just kind of admit you're moving the goal posts in a very specific way to suit your point, dude.

I would love a Taito character in, but I'm not going to pretend that they're more of Square-Enix "flagship" characters than 2B of all people.
 

HyperSomari64

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I'd say if an arcade classic gets in Smash it'll be Frogger or Q-bert.
Q*bert is onwed by Sony Pictures. Meaning He's technically a PlayStation rep. (Keyword: technically)
While both entities are under the Sony umbrella. they are separated from each other.
This is why we have games based on Columbia Pictures movies that got releases on Xbox, PC or Nintendo consoles.

it's not like PlayStation Studios decides to make a new All-Stars Battle Royale and includes stuff such as Ghostbusters, Karate Kid, Men in Black.
 
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SPEN18

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I agree Astral Chain's chance depends on recency. Recency is a very common aspect behind inclusion, assuming that character also hits the threshold of success to get included. Many spots can go to fighters like that. There is not just as much reason to believe we'll get an older, unrepped IP as a current successful one. Because there are usually many spots allocated for current, successful first-parties. Btw, Mac fit under here too when included.

Being on the previous system doesn't negate that, because the selection window goes back from the current point to the previous round of selection. So for this it'd be probably be between 2019 and 2024. That is what counts as recent/current, plus one year ahead for promo picks ala Pokemon/FE/Xenoblade.

Since Smash has always begun development prior to the release of the system it's on (64 and 3DS aside), a lot of the selection ends up looking at the previous console. Incineroar was a promotional pick that indirectly promoted the previous console.

So, regarding these old, unrepped IPs:
  • If you're Golden Sun, you're going to have to get in through the fan pick spot, of which there are, typically, far fewer - given fan favorites who are also current and successful usually don't get in on the basis of being a fan favorite. Like Inkling. I think this will also happen to Waluigi. And that's like, Isaac's saving grace. But hey, if this spot is taken by characters like Waluigi or BWD, that could box out an unrepped IP entirely.
  • It's also possible the fan pick category makes no distinction between first and third-party, such as if they aren't compelled by the first-party offering, they may find the third-party inclusions who fit this category a sufficient nod to the fanbase.
  • If you're a retro series, you're going to have to magically hope that category comes back, or hope you could also qualify as a surprise pick. Atm, the "retro spot" hasn't been a thing, so obviously a character who can get in based on something we usually get multiple spots for has better odds.
  • If you qualify as a surprise choice, you seemingly have one spot in which you can make it. But Sakurai has also stressed, for the past two surprise picks at least, that still being recognizable is paramount. So if you'd be surprising, but you're also not prolific, then you're probably not qualifying. And if there were any obvious choices here, they also wouldn't qualify. So it's a whole category of longshots, vying for a single spot. Of course the current, successful IP has a better chance than any one applicable surprise candidate.
  • If you're Rhythm Heaven, I don't even know where you qualify. If around DHD and PP is the barometer, I don't think RH measures up to being well-known enough for the surprise pick.
So no, I don't agree that an older, unrepped IP has as much shot to get in as Astral Chain. I think Golden Sun has a slim shot of getting in while Astral Chain doesn't, but apart from that, there is no older, unrepped IP that I think has anywhere close to the same chance. I mean one may get in via the surprise slot (but not necessarily, given existing IPs can have that spot too), but not being able to zero in on a likely candidate is the point of the spot.
But Astral Chain likely won't be that recent or relevant relative to the project plan, which is why its case is in a gray area, and potentially very subject to the exact timeline for the next game. Recent but not that recent isn't always very helpful.

Being on the last console doesn't in itself disqualify you from being considered recent, no, though it wouldn't be cross-promoting the current gen unless there are clear plans to do more with the IP going forward. It doesn't seem to be a big issue historically, I would agree, but another suboptimal condition.

And no, we actually don't have much confirmation that the peak selection window goes all the way back to the last cycle, especially for more niche series; if anything, we have evidence to the contrary with the infamous Sakurai comment about six months being enough to make a difference regarding Awakening's inclusion. The more recency-oriented picks for Brawl had releases mainly concentrated in 2004-2006 and for Smash 4 in 2010-2013, which you could maybe stretch to 2009 if you include Wii Fit and Punch Out, both of which I do not consider pure recency picks the same way I would consider Chain. If the next Smash optimistically has a 2023 project plan, we're getting into a distance from that with Chain that is much less precedented.

Punch Out is a poor comparison for Astral Chain, because the Wii game was not its first outing. Mac was long-established as a Western-demanded character and in the post-reveal interview Sakurai gushed about his legacy dating back to the arcade days, which we know he has an affinity for. The Wii game being just recent enough probably put Mac over the top, I wouldn't doubt, but I see his inclusion overall as a confluence of factors with a semi-recent release providing just enough impetus for a long-known commodity to finally actually make it in.

Lastly, while none of the fanbase, retro, or surprise slots are both guaranteed to exist and guaranteed to yield a new first party IP, and most of the outstanding first party IPs may have questionable chances individually, I think the number of possible slots they could fill and the number of options makes it not too unlikely we'd get at least something from that bin. It's like betting on one pick vs. the field; the field usually wins.
 

Aaayei

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Now in Boost's defense, the video in question did not put Drakengard in the flagship tier, only the tier below in "Mainstay". Whether or not that is the correct positioning is up to you.

However Nier Automata itself specifically is a weird case where I think it goes beyond the franchise as just a flagship game for SE. Feels like a "FFVII in comparison to the rest of FF" situation.

And that especially goes for 2B as a character. She is basically everywhere now. SoulCalibur, Granblue Versus, Final Fantasy XIV, Phantasy Star, Fall Guys, the list just goes om. And I'm honestly willing to bet she's actually a super prime candidate for next smash. Probably one of the next in line in terms of SE.
 
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Speed Weed

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As a ginormous Taito fanboy myself, I think it's already kind of wonky and disingenuous to compare NieR with Space Invaders and say the latter is definitively more important to the Square Enix sphere. The thing with Taito is that they still very much operate independently from the core Square Enix company - to the point that as far as I can tell they're completely in charge of their own licensing. Squeenix's influence on the company has been moreso in terms of macro-level corporate structure - the acquisition in the 2000s did see a downsizing of the company and an exodus of several key employees, but after that they've been basically off doing their own thing, handling their own projects and branding and licensing and such. Like, you don't ever see Taito characters show up in Square Enix crossovers. You're not going to see ZUNTATA music in Theatrhythm. There's very very little overlap or crossover between the two parts of the company, so I don't find it fair to make this comparison - in fact, I would honestly say Square Enix probably does hold NieR in much higher regard and care more about what happens there, and it is more of a flagship franchise for them, if only because Space Invaders is generally seen as Taito's thing and whatever happens with it is entirely up to Taito. Even SEGA and ATLUS generally intermingle more. Am I making sense here?
 
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MasterCheef

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So in 2024 we will get four new waves of spirits coming in 2024. & amiibo-focused spirit events.

Why amiibo focused Spirit Events , with no new Amiiibo ? & Nintendo releases , Noah & Mio , Amiibo after all DLC & post Holiday rush in 01/2024 ?

Bandai Namco seemingly has two projects in production for Nintendo with one being developed at Studio 2 and the second being developed at Studio S

gotta be signs for FP3

 

RileyXY1

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So in 2024 we will get four new waves of spirits coming in 2024. & amiibo-focused spirit events.

Why amiibo focused Spirit Events , with no new Amiiibo ? & Nintendo releases , Noah & Mio , Amiibo after all DLC & post Holiday rush in 01/2024 ?

Bandai Namco seemingly has two projects in production for Nintendo with one being developed at Studio 2 and the second being developed at Studio S

gotta be signs for FP3

I think that one of the new Spirit Events is one featuring Spirits of the Original 12 using their models from Smash 64 itself, as this is mainly being done to celebrate Smash's 25th anniversary.
 

chocolatejr9

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Space Invaders is more important to gaming overall, but it barely has anything to do with what you'd think of as "Square-Enix". Mergers and acquisitions are weird as Hell in general.
Given recent trends in the gaming industry (and to an extent, SE specifically), I just hope that doesn't mean anything bad for Taito...
 

Guynamednelson

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I think that one of the new Spirit Events is one featuring Spirits of the Original 12 using their models from Smash 64 itself, as this is mainly being done to celebrate Smash's 25th anniversary.
I mean sure that would also work, but why not use the actual art drawn for the game?
1703553466648.png
 

Gengar84

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Merry Christmas everyone. I hope everyone had a great one. My brother finally got his Battletoads figures he ordered over a year and a half ago last week and we decided to wait until today to open them. I opened a bunch of Ninja Turtles I’ve been holding off on until today myself. Other than that, we’ve been playing a lot of Scarlet and Violet this week and finally updated our SD card to use a lot of new Smash Ultimate mods.
 

Garteam

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IMO, the biggest issue confronting both 2B and the Space Invaders is having to compete against four veterans who are not guaranteed to return and a now-relevant Geno. That's also not factoring in that Square Enix is seemingly the most challenging third party to work with for some reason.
 

Geno Boost

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Idk what’s your definition of “flagship” regarding franchises but usually that title is given for series with constant releases non stop it like it’s always guaranteed like Mario and Zelda and Pokémon and it does not depends on crossover otherwise Darkstalkers would be called flagship franchise to capcom due to morrigan appearing in many crossovers so “active” or “mainstay” is the right word for drakengard for now
 
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MasterCheef

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I think that one of the new Spirit Events is one featuring Spirits of the Original 12 using their models from Smash 64 itself, as this is mainly being done to celebrate Smash's 25th anniversary.
.
doubtful , SSBU has had an online tourney with them for quite a while. no need for a new spirit event for them.
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
IMO, the biggest issue confronting both 2B and the Space Invaders is having to compete against four veterans who are not guaranteed to return and a now-relevant Geno. That's also not factoring in that Square Enix is seemingly the most challenging third party to work with for some reason.
I think square-Enix would prefer their content as dlc instead of base game for extra money as we have seen how cloud was the last veteran they managed to bring to ultimate pretty much showing that there was some kind of deal going on before he was added and it could have been the whole 7 square leak
So if we get the 4 veterans back in the base I expect the newcomers will be dlc with that kind of deal
Another thing that surprised me in ultimate is how we ended up getting mana and octopath spirits free event
 
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Garteam

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I think square-Enix would prefer their content as dlc instead of base game for extra money as we have seen how cloud was the last veteran they managed to bring to ultimate pretty much showing that there was some kind of deal going on before he was added and it could have been the whole 7 square leak
So if we get the 4 veterans back in the base I expect the newcomers will be dlc with that kind of deal
Another thing that surprised me in ultimate is how we ended up getting mana and octopath spirits free event
A lot of it also comes down to Square Enix not having nearly as hard of a grip on their musical and artistic copyright relative to other companies. Unlike the other studios in Smash, which own all of the various forms of copyright protections over their works, contractors hired by Square Enix to design characters or compose for certain games seem to keep their rights over any collaborations made. That's presumably why Dragon Quest had to be added as DLC and why Final Fantasy didn't get any new music tracks or use the original FF7 artwork until Sephiroth was released. That being said, I don't think Square Enix necessarily minds having their characters sold separately from a business perspective either.

The only exception to this is Street Fighter, with Capcom USA owning the rights to the soundtrack. The end result of that seems to be SFII music only and minimal remixes,
 

Wonder Smash

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Merry Christmas, everybody.

And speaking of the first Smash Bros, I've been thinking. Not too long ago, there was a topic here about what if SEGA made their own Super Smash Bros game for the Saturn instead and what their roster would be like. But looking back on that now, I don't know why I even bothered making a roster because when you think about it, Fighters Megamix kind of was their Smash Bros. Sure, it may not have had all their mascots but it was still a crossover of various SEGA series with a concept that's very similar to The King of Fighters 94...much like Smash itself. But I guess since SEGA never followed up on it and make it as big as it should have been, it's easy to forget that they made a game like that.

And now there's been something else I've been thinking about; if SEGA did make a crossover fighting game series, which character would be the Little Mac of the game? He doesn't have to be a boxer but he would most definitely be fighter. And from a series that may be among the company's biggest but among some of their best games. I'm thinking either Axel Stone? Or maybe Ryo Hazuki?
 
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RodNutTakin

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I love Bubble Bobble, but it's not literally synonymous with video games to the point where it's part of the basic set of emojis.
You're not wrong, but Darth is also not wrong in the sense that Bubble Bobble would be more practical if we're looking at playable Taito representation. If Bub gets in, I fully expect him to be a general Taito representative much like how Pac-Man was. The Bubble Bobble series and its spinoffs already do quite a bit of referencing towards other Taito properties, (The Space Invader is a common enemy, Rainbow Islands has worlds using content from Arkanoid, Darius and The Fairyland Story, Bubble Memories includes cameoes from Pocky & Rocky, Don Doko Don, Liquid Kids, Elevator Action, and The NewZealand Story, Sonic Blast Man appears as an opponent in Puzzle Bobble 3, the list goes on) so I feel it'd be a natural fit there. Besides, just being made earlier doesn't always mean you'll get in first, just ask Dragon Quest.
 

Geno Boost

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Not sure why would bubble bobble rep has to get the pac-man moveset treatment I don’t think bub lacks potential moveset from his series
Bub & bob can be duo character like ice climbers
 
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Sucumbio

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If it wasn't clear the next Smash isn't underway, it is now. All those for Smash Accounts/Supporters better start relying support right because now is time.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
I will watch it but what grabbed my attention was the comments in the tweet vs our little dusty corner of the Internet at smash boards. looks like a fair mix of "I hope he works on something else" (Reboot Ice Climbers like be did Kid Icarus for example) and "I hope we get a deluxe." Or NO new game at all because at least in those scenarios Ultimate and EiH stays on top, since so many people are afraid of who will get cut. And 2B as a newcomer.
 

fogbadge

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Come on sakurai make something completely new. So there’s one newcomer in the next smash we can all agree is happening
 
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BritishGuy54

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I will watch it but what grabbed my attention was the comments in the tweet vs our little dusty corner of the Internet at smash boards. looks like a fair mix of "I hope he works on something else" (Reboot Ice Climbers like be did Kid Icarus for example) and "I hope we get a deluxe." Or NO new game at all because at least in those scenarios Ultimate and EiH stays on top, since so many people are afraid of who will get cut. And 2B as a newcomer.
I think a fear of moving on from Ultimate is warranted. Everyone is here, after all. But we can’t just stagnate and just add more and more to Ultimate.

This is not a Mario Kart 8 situation, where the original game was on a dying system, and given new life on a new console. And what happens on the next system, when new faces are still being created and becoming popular? Stagnation.

Third parties not returning to Smash is also a scary thought for people who wanted certain characters. If Cloud and Hero are cut, there’s no way Geno and 2B get in. If Banjo and Steve are out, Crash and Doom Slayer aren’t getting in.

I think a part of it is also a fear of newer first parties getting in over what they grew up with. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra and Mythra all had their detractors, all being newer first parties when Ultimate was adding DLC. It means more competition for their character to get in Smash.

I would be fine with scaling down the roster, but not too far. I don’t want to go back down to a Melee or Brawl sized roster. Preferably around post-DLC Smash 4’s size. And of course… bias plays a factor.

People can end up cutting characters for petty reasons, such as disliking/unfamiliar with a series, a game/character’s fanbase, or simply disliking the look of a character.

It is also so easy to cut clones for some people. But it’s important to know that clones are a part of Smash. Every game, since 64, has had its fair share of clones.

A lot of people aren’t ready for the unprecedented cuts we could see. I wouldn’t be surprised if Star Fox is only left with Fox, or Mother cut in its entirety besides music. Kid Icarus may be left with only Pit. I don’t think the original 12 are safe from cuts.

We may also see other cuts. Assist Trophies, stages, music, and more. Sure, playable fighters matter. But it’s important to look at ATs and more too.

The original 12 in Smash 64 made sense, because it was representative of Nintendo at the time. But it’s been 25 years since then. Nintendo has changed. Their premiere franchises have changed. It’s like some fans have an aversion to post-Millenium or post-GameCube franchises.

People feel nostalgia over many things, but nostalgia is constantly evolving, not stuck in the pre-Wii era. People will feel nostalgic over the Switch at some point, like remembering their experiences with BOTW and Mario Odyssey, or dabbling their feet in newer series like Xenoblade and Splatoon.

Smash fans on websites such as Twitter and Reddit love the EiH and third party presence. But a roster of that scale and licensing is just not sustainable.

The next Smash game doesn’t need to be Ultimate. After Ultimate, you have to cut back to move forward. Perhaps a new game that is more first-party focused with less third parties would be a good thing.
 
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Gengar84

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I think the one thing I want more than any stage or character is a solid co-op and single player experience like Subspace Emissary. I don’t play competitively online and facing the AI over and over in basic matches can get a little tiring (though mods help a ton to keep them interesting). It would be nice to be able to play cooperatively with my brother again in some kind of story mode. Other returning modes like Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish would be great too along with an improved Stage Builder.
 

DarthEnderX

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I love Bubble Bobble, but it's not literally synonymous with video games to the point where it's part of the basic set of emojis.
Space Invaders gives us this music:

Bubble Bobble gives us this music:

Check-AND-mate.

Bub & bob can be duo character like ice climbers


But we can’t just stagnate and just add more and more to Ultimate.
We absolutely can.

And what happens on the next system, when new faces are still being created and becoming popular?
They get added to Ultimate Deluxe.
 
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Gengar84

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Space Invaders gives us this music:

Bubble Bobble gives us this music:

Check-AND-mate.


I can’t argue there. I enjoy both games as a kid but Bubble Bobble was one of my favorite NES games I never owned. I used to have a blue Space Invaders handheld kind of shaped like a brick with a slanted section for the screen but I can’t seem to find a picture of that anymore.

To my knowledge, Bub and Bob played separately like Mario and Luigi so I don’t think an Ice Climbers gimmick is really necessary. I’d save that for pairings that have a strong focus on team attacks or play together in an interesting way. I haven’t played the game since I was a little kid so my memory may be off.
 
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