Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DynamicSmasher]

I kinda think that Frisk is one of the weaker choices for an Undertale character tbh.

Outside of how that would conflict with the themes and story of Undertale (which I think is important for capturing the vibes of Undertale) I mostly just haven't seen a moveset proposal that isn't either overly complicated (I've seen multiple whole ass morality system) or a summon fighter.

I also think that Undertale/Deltarune's supporting cast is one of the most iconic casts in at least the last 15 years of gaming, and forgoing any of those characters for the deliberate blank slate would not represent Undertale very well.

I think some combination of sans and/or Papyrus is probably the most likely and all around best pick, but I do maintain that Undyne is a sleeper pick.

Funnily enough, I could see Kris as the Deltarune rep more than Frisk as the Undertale Rep. Kris is more of an active character in their game than Frisk is in UT(so far at least).

Either way, with Sans being the Mii Costume, he seems the most likely overall. I guess you could have Mewtwo type of deal where he's a lot lighter than he looks in exchange for being pretty fast and strong.

 

[Lionfranky]

Which new third party characters do you think will be dlc in the Next Smash Bros?

I think people are sleeping on 2B.

 

[AreJay25]

I think people are sleeping on 2B.

... Are they? Considering how many games she's shown up in, I think it'd be more surprising if she DIDN'T show up as at least DLC at this point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think people are sleeping on 2B.

You can blame the buyable plushes for that~

 

[SharkLord]

If Sakurai's next project is Smash and development is going from early 2022 to (presumably) mid-2025, I don't think unique 60 veterans returning and about unique 15 newcomers is that out of the question.

Not counting echoes, Ultimate brought back approximately 55 characters from Smash for Wii U and added about 13 new characters (if you treat the returning characters as each constituting a newcomer's worth of work) on approximately 2.5 years of dev time.

That's a good point, actually. Usually we just look at things in terms of newcomers vs veterans, but they'd still have to make the older vets relatively from scratch. Being able to go off older movesets probably eased things off a little, but they can't port their assets over like with the Smash 4 veterans. That said, I think Ultimate is unique in that is reuses a lot more assets from the past game than usual. Then again, I think Ultimate also had a relatively short development time compared to Brawl and 4, so... When you put it like that, 70ish fighters total doesn't sound too unreasonable.

Though, it's worth noting that fans have been clamoring for a good few veterans to get a rework, so that might eat into the dev time. Sakurai's always been fairly conservative with reworks, but I think he does pay attention to fan reception, so I could see maybe Ganondorf or Sonic being redone and taking up some reosources that would've gone into a newcomer.

 

[ninjahmos]

I know this is going to be more of a trigger topic, but what excuses do you think the internet is going to use as mudslinging against characters? For the next smash bros once it is revealed.

"Too many anime swordsman fighters" is one of them I know.

"Nobody asked for this character"

Does that count?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I can agree with that, but that doesn't mean fighting a character who can use several deadly attacks at random or randomly kill you on the spot just for landing two specific attacks from their spell menu above a certain damage percentage, completely foregoing the blast zones and.momentum always needed by literally any other character to K.O without items, is fun.

You can rework Hero's moveset and take away their randomly determined instant death attacks without removing their unique primary RNG mechanic or making them underpowered.

Is it just Whack, and Thwack that make him unfun to fight for you?

Hmm...I know a lot of people hate the moves on principle, but I remember them being rare enough to not really be all that present a threat. I'm not sure what the odds SmashWiki has listed represent, but they do have fairly middling odds so maybe it appears decently often?

 

[fogbadge]

You can blame the buyable plushes for that~

like the new gardevoir plush

 

[Lionfranky]

... Are they? Considering how many games she's shown up in, I think it'd be more surprising if she DIDN'T show up as at least DLC at this point.

That's my point. Although she has been in tons of crossovers, people don't mention her that much in speculation discussion.

 

[Oracle Link]

You've been told not to conflate objectivity with subjectivity before and yet you're still doing it.

Dude they are literally the main protagonist of course they rep the whole game the best!

Unless you wanna argue : "objectivity does not exist"

Imagine if someone said mario being the best choice to rep the mario series is subjective! Silly right?

Sans yes is the most popuar one however serious sans only reps 1 fight in the games evil route!

Again i love sans but hes lazy and normally never fights i guess in his case its easy to argue: " everyone loves him so he should be added"
And unlike waluigi there really isnt any arguments against him other then canon!

Still only makes serious gaster blaster sans a rep for genocide only!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Is it just Whack, and Thwack that make him unfun to fight for you?

Hmm...I know a lot of people hate the moves on principle, but I remember them being rare enough to not really be all that present a threat. I'm not sure what the odds SmashWiki has listed represent, but they do have fairly middling odds so maybe it appears decently often?

I think it's less how often it shows up and more so that Hero just occasionally has a "**** you" button that just kills you instantly to begin with lmao

Like I know it's a low percent chance to kill at low percents, but the fact that it can at all is pretty (pardon the pun) whack.

 

[Shinuto]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

 

[fogbadge]

That's my point. Although she has been in tons of crossovers, people don't mention her that much in speculation discussion.

I don’t think pre existing crossovers are used a lot when picking characters

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dude they are literally the main protagonist of course they rep the whole game the best!

Unless you wanna argue : "objectivity does not exist"

Imagine if someone said mario being the best choice to rep the mario series is subjective! Silly right?

Sans yes is the most popuar one however murder hobo sans only reps 1 fight in the games evil route!

Again i love sans but hes lazy and normally never fights i guess in his case its easy to argue: " everyone loves him so he should be added"
And unlike waluigi there really isnt any arguments against him other then canon!

Still only makes serious gaster blaster sans a rep for genocide only!

"Objectivity" exists in a case-by-case basis.

Of course Mario would be the first Mario character in a crossover. His name is all over the place, not to mention that he's the literal mascot of the company and one of the most recognizable characters in gaming if not ALL OF FICTION! This is the kind of cred that puts Mario on a league of his own.

Undertale may be a beloved game that blew up, and Frisk may be the protagonist of that game, but Undertale's appeal comes from its cast of lovable monsters brimming with personality and charm while Frisk has none of that due to functioning as a blank slate avatar, potentially making them a disservice to the source material if they were chosen over the actual reason people love the game.

These are two very different cases.

 

[RileyXY1]

"Objectivity" exists in a case-by-case basis.

Of course Mario would be the first Mario character in a crossover. His name is all over the place, not to mention that he's the literal mascot of the company and one of the most recognizable characters in gaming if not ALL OF FICTION! This is the kind of cred that puts Mario on a league of his own.

Undertale may be a beloved game that blew up, and Frisk may be the protagonist of that game, but Undertale's appeal comes from its cast of lovable monsters brimming with personality and charm while Frisk has none of that due to functioning as a blank slate avatar, potentially making them a disservice to the source material if they were chosen over the actual reason people love the game.

These are two very different cases.

That also explains why people wanted one of the house leaders to represent Fire Emblem: Three Houses instead of Byleth.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That also explains why people wanted one of the house leaders to represent Fire Emblem: Three Houses instead of Byleth.

I'm one of the people who actually wanted Byleth and I'm still metaphorically hiding in a bunker 5 years later.

 

[SharkLord]

I think with Arms part of the trouble is it doesn't really generate the Discourse ™ despite how many copies it sold. It sold more than every Xenoblade game for example, but they continue to discourse and discussion. ARMS is a fighting game that doesn't really have a story, so people could only really talk about gameplay and character design.

Pretty much this. Though I will say that Bayonetta doesn't seem to be in that bad a spot, VA controversy aside. Bayo 3 got some flack, but it still sold over a million, which seems about in line with the previous games. Bayo 1 did better, but that was across several consoles.

Bayo 3 sold slightly less than the ports of Bayo 1 and 2 on the Switch. It's roughly in line with past games, but the problem is that almost every series on the Switch has seen outstanding growth. Three Houses, Metroid Dread, Pikmin 4, New Horizons (especially New Horizons), Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Xenoblade being a stable franchise at all, even Smash itself saw massive growth. Seeing Bayonetta stagnate when even smaller exclusives see outstanding growth is kinda disappointing.

It also doesn't help that Kamiya's bailed to Clovers, with numerous other major Platinum directors leaving as well. Furthermore, Bayonetta is strongly associated with PlatinumGames as its devs, but it's owned by Sega, but also Nintendo's the one funding it. This all comes together to leave the series in a bit of a precarious situations.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Now that Undertale has beeen brough up, who do you think it's the most likely UT rep? Sans, Papyrus, Frisk or Undyne?

Most likely? Sans.

Most wanted? Papyrus or Undyne.

 

[Oracle Link]

"Objectivity" exists in a case-by-case basis.

Of course Mario would be the first Mario character in a crossover. His name is all over the place, not to mention that he's the literal mascot of the company and one of the most recognizable characters in gaming if not ALL OF FICTION! This is the kind of cred that puts Mario on a league of his own.

Undertale may be a beloved game that blew up, and Frisk may be the protagonist of that game, but Undertale's appeal comes from its cast of lovable monsters brimming with personality and charm while Frisk has none of that due to functioning as a blank slate avatar, potentially making them a disservice to the source material if they were chosen over the actual reason people love the game.

These are two very different cases.

Yeah but on the same note you guys wanna specifically ignore that sanses personality means he doesnt fight seriously!
If you want an actual personality driven sans in smash his moveset would be 100% be joke based no gaster blasters or bones in sight?
Now if he plays ice hockey, default dances, wacks you with blue stop signs, spurts ketchup and blows trombones now that has his personality written all over it!
I guess papyrus and undyne wpuld make sense fighting considering they talk abput a sparring match in the phone calls!

I guess sans could have a karma meter that build up per ko and turns him into geno sans if like most people in the battle are dead?

Also lastly frisk is really fun and goofy and does tons of interesting things and they do tons of acts full of personality! Also they look funny!

Lastly i have frisk and sans as figures just wanted to say that!

If you want to reply do so in 12 hours pls im tired!
-_- =)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If you want an actual personality driven sans in smash his moveset would be 100% be joke based no gaster blasters or bones in sight?

There is no way that a Sans moveset would lack those things. His boss fight is FAR too iconic for it to be completely ignored.

Instead, the silly stuff like trombones would act as a complement to the bones and blasters.

It doesn't matter if his fight is only in the Genocide route, just like how it didn't matter for any single thing MEGALOVANIA showed up in, including Smash

 

[ninjahmos]

Smash never cared about spoilers, so why should they care whether Sans' moveset is based on his boss fight or all the comedic stuff he does?

I mean, a mix of both would be cool, but I think I'd be more excited for the former.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

There is no way that a Sans moveset would lack those things. His boss fight is FAR too iconic for it to be completely ignored.

Instead, the silly stuff like trombones would act as a complement to the bones and blasters.

It doesn't matter if his fight is only in the Genocide route, just like how it didn't matter for any single thing MEGALOVANIA showed up in, including Smash

I also think it's possible that most of what Sans does is goofy and informed by his personality and the Gaster Blasters come out for the Final Smash, since you can't exactly make his special attack (doing nothing and never giving you a turn) into a good Final Smash by itself, but the Blasters and stuff are still iconic and should be there for sure lol

Like the Final Smash is him turning serious for a second before going back to his goofy lazy self, like "trust me, you don't wanna see me when i start putting in the effort, but i'll give you a little free sample."

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Is it just Whack, and Thwack that make him unfun to fight for you?

Hmm...I know a lot of people hate the moves on principle, but I remember them being rare enough to not really be all that present a threat. I'm not sure what the odds SmashWiki has listed represent, but they do have fairly middling odds so maybe it appears decently often?

I admittedly don't care much for Hero's mostly randomly decided list of spells in general, more so since several of them lack enough start-up lag to easily be countered or cancelled, but Whack and Thwack (as well as the random Critical Hits, which at least thankfully don't kill on the spot and still launch the opponent instead) escalate it to being straight up bogus and a chore to fight in my opinion.

If they just got rid of the instant death attacks and random critical hits, though, and reworked some of his other moves and abilities to more than make up for it, Hero would be much better and and I think I'd actually enjoy the challenge of fighting them.

Also:

I think it's less how often it shows up and more so that Hero just occasionally has a "**** you" button that just kills you instantly to begin with lmao

Like I know it's a low percent chance to kill at low percents, but the fact that it can at all is pretty (pardon the pun) whack.

This. This sums it up for me lol.

Not only is it randomly determined whether or not Whack and Thwack cause instant deaths (the chance being increased the higher percentage the player hit is at, but it's easily capable of doing it at even like above 40% or 45% IIRC) , but they're also two of several randomly determined attacks and moves on a list Hero has access to, and Hero is the ONLY character in the game who, without items, can literally kill a character on the spot, no knock back or blast zones required.

I'm sorry, but even for a character that isn't Brawl Meta Knight or 4 Bayo levels of broken, a move like that on a roster that lacks any other moves like it and isn't built around such mechanics is unbalanced in of itself and makes the character as a whole the opposite of fun to challenge.

 

[SharkLord]

I just think it's really weird that Hero's the Weird and Wacky random character when in Dragon Quest proper they act nothing like that. I dunno, maybe Sakurai was worried about "too many swordfighters" like with Byleth and he was trying to make them more unique.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

Octoling

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Not only is it randomly determined whether or not Whack and Thwack cause instant deaths (the chance being increased the higher percentage the player hit is at, but it's easily capable of doing it at even like above 40% or 45% IIRC) , but they're also two of several randomly determined attacks and moves on a list Hero has access to, and Hero is the ONLY character in the game who, without items, can literally kill a character on the spot, without items, no knock back or blast zones required.

Can't Whack and Thwack kill you at like literally any percent, even 0%, it's just super rare?

EDIT: Yeah looked it up, it's always 1% minimum at under 20% damage (after that it has a math calculation in the code), so there's always a non-zero chance you just obliterate a guy lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

like the new gardevoir plush

Well, I more meant "small size", but fair point!

...And mostly cause Doll gives a whole nother suggestion. XD

--------------

As for Hero, I don't like the auto-death moves either. Critical Hits do not bother me, but they need to have a much lower chance of happening. I really like the Spell Menu since it gives it a really cool flavor to the RPG factor.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Can't Whack and Thwack kill you at like literally any percent, even 0%, it's just super rare?

EDIT: Yeah looked it up, it's always 1% minimum at under 20% damage (after that it has a math calculation in the code), so there's always a non-zero chance you just obliterate a guy lol

It's never happened to me, but the fact that two moves can one shot a player at any given point in the match so long as they took even the slightest amount of damage beforehand is complete bogus. Not even Mr. Game & Watch's Judge is that busted lol.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Is it really a question over whether Sans would use his boss fight abilities in Smash? His Mii Gunner arm is already a Gaster Blaster and there's even a blue eye sprite for him in the files.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Hero's moveset seems to try to represent the Dragon Quest series as a whole, instead of one specific character or even one specific game. Which isn't personally how I prefer characters to be designed. I would've picked a specific DQ protagonist (probably either Erdrick or Luminary) and looked at anything unique they can use in their game, and then based the moveset on that.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Hero's moveset seems to try to represent the Dragon Quest series as a whole, instead of one specific character or even one specific game. Which isn't personally how I prefer characters to be designed. I would've picked a specific DQ protagonist (probably either Erdrick or Luminary) and looked at anything unique they can use in their game, and then based the moveset on that.

I mean, all the Dragon Quest protagonists do the same things so them being skins makes sense

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, all the Dragon Quest protagonists do the same things so them being skins makes sense

This is true. Though there are obviously differences in what items/equipment/spells they can get, but still.

I'm a fan of how they did it. The only protagonist I would've chosen as one for to represent the general class is the original Hero from Dragon Quest 1. An excellent design and has lots of options for how to go more than one way. Though at least he's also named as Loto/Erdrick's Descendant, otherwise.

 

[ninjahmos]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

Either Bandana Waddle Dee or Octoling.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

Dixie Kong or a new Pokemon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

Waluigi or Octoling.

 

[cashregister9]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

Octoling would be a really fun way to come full circle

but I am gonna go out on a limb and say Alear

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Either Bandana Waddle Dee or Octoling.

If I saw Bandana Dee headlining the teaser/first trailer of a new Smash Bros., I'd be so happy. Genuinely one of only a few of my most wanteds that I think actually has a feasible shot lol

 

[Perkilator]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

Assuming it’s like Brawl and they reveal five newcomers:

• Waluigi
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Octoling
• Ring Fit Trainee
• A 3rd party character

 

[RouffWestie]

Let's discuss something, which newcomer do you think we'll be in the first reveal trailer for the next smash?

Ayumi, Ring Fit Trainer, or Bandana Dee

 

[SharkLord]

Waluigi seems like a fairly decent bet, given the outcry to his being trophied last game. He's wacky enough to give a high-energy trailer and recognizeable to generate hype at his appearance.

Bandana Dee, Tom Nook, and Octoling all seem like safe bets for the next game's roster, but I dunno, their series are already represented, and the latter two's series were already used to kick off Smash 4 and Ultimate repectively, so I dunno if they'll try a repeat. That said, Kirby's had a pretty decent upswing lately, and it's always been represented well in Smash even though it's been fairly niche until the past couple of generations. I could see Bandana Dee working pretty well, actually.

For third-parties, I'm still hedging my bets on Monster Hunter. Best-selling Capcom game, second best-selling Capcom series, best-selling third-party game on the Switch, and has a much-hyped new release this year. By the time Smash 6 is out, I'm fairly certain MonHun will still be a huge moneymaker for Capcom.