Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know if it's true or not that Scorpion and Sub-Zero aren't coming to the Super Smash Bros. series because the Mortal Kombat series is a violent video game series, but let's not forget that in the Mortal Kombat series there is also Friendship and they can als

The most likely candidate would be Scorpion. And his original fatality wasn't even gory. It's just flame breathing someone. Which multiple Smash characters already have had that as their FS.

 

[Shinuto]

I imagine Digivolution would just be handled like Arsene was in Joker's kit.

A temporary power up that makes Agumon stronger but eventually runs out and he goes back to base form after a bit

Id prefer a meter that builds up and you can do multiple arsene transformations from agumon to greymon, metal greymon, and wargreymon, and if you let it build up without using it you can warp digivolve straight to wargreymon. Tell me that wouldn't be sick.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I guess purely visually, if you don’t know anything else about the character, he does kind of look like what you’d picture a typical ninja to look like in fantasy. He does have some body armor to set him apart from a standard ninja but he doesn’t really stand out as much as someone like Scorpion visually. That’s completely discounting all the unique skills he has and everything about his personality though. Just from a purely visual standpoint, he’s what I think of when I think “ninja”.

I don't know about that. The crest, scarf, and the spy look he got sure makes him stand out to me. But the people on GameFAQs took it too far by saying he looks no different from a ninja enemy that you fight.

There's nothing wrong with thinking "ninja" when you look at him but that's the whole point; Hayabusa is an old school character from the 80s where characters were a lot more simpler. He was created during the Ninja Boom and was also one of the earliest ninja heroes in video games.

So yeah, he's about as ninja as you would expect because he came from a ninja era in pop culture.

 

[Gengar84]

The most likely candidate would be Scorpion. And his original fatality wasn't even gory. It's just flame breathing someone. Which multiple Smash characters already have had that as their FS.

I think there’s a good chance we’d get Sub-Zero as an echo with unique specials if Scorpion got in. The two played identically in the classic games beyond the specials and I think they’d mostly base the characters off that. I’d be most excited to see their UMK3 designs.

I don't know about that. The crest, scarf, and the spy look he got sure makes him stand out to me. But the people on GameFAQs took it too far by saying he looks no different from a ninja enemy that you fight.

There's nothing wrong with thinking "ninja" when you look at him but that's the whole point; Hayabusa is an old school character from the 80s where characters were a lot more simpler. He was created during the Ninja Boom and was also one of the earliest ninja heroes in video games.

So yeah, he's about as ninja as you would expect because that's always been his character.

I think the main thing that makes him look more like a typical ninja to me is the fact that he wears all black. Sub-Zero and Scorpion stand out more visually to me due to their bright colors in combination with the black. Not that I’m saying that’s necessarily a bad thing. Hyabusa would make a great Smash character and he’s got a really cool moveset.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Beyond licensing issues (which have become less of an issue as more companies adopt licensing to contributors as a pillar of their IP management) and the roster just not being large enough to accommodate everyone, is there any reason to have a mass culling of Third Parties?

The Third Parties in Smash are from some of the revered games of all time and are beloved icons. Smash's identity has become increasing Third Party-centric since the middle of Smash for Wii U/3DS' DLC and some of the most popular fighters in the game aren't owned by Nintendo. Additionally, Ultimate's absurd success has made basically every licensor in the industry publicly express some interest in getting characters in Smash. That's also not considering deals cultivated with licensors for Smash after Sora's release, such as Sora getting an Amiibo and the new batch of non-Nintendo spirits.

I think the best argument is Third Parties ballooning the budget but even that's questionable when Ultimate surpassed over 30 millions copies. If Nintendo is willing to do something like spend money to license new IPs for Smash 18 months after Ultimate ended, I can't see them being conservative when it comes to Smash's budget.

We are in unprecedented territory, but the surrounding context of the series and the industry as a whole seems to suggest that these characters are here to stay.

There is also the cost of it all, they don’t have infinite money, it also goes beyond getting the licenses, they have to ensure the portrayal of the characters and everything they bring is to each company’s liking. We also know that licensing has been more difficult for Square Enix content than for other companies.

If they tried to bring back all the guest fighters for the base roster of the next Smash they’d be negotiating the rights to and would have to implement 18 3rd party fighters from 15 3rd party franchises from 11 3rd party companies all at once, and having to ensure everything goes smoothly, this isn’t even accounting for all the 3rd party assist trophies, stages, music, etc., nor does it account for potential new 3rd party fighters, nor does it account for all the Nintendo content they need to make, which also have thier share of hurdles.

What they managed to do for Ultimate’s base game was already extremely impressive. I just have to wonder at what point does it become too much to realistically handle. I won’t say it’s impossible, but I don’t think it should be seen as a likely outcome

 

[BrawlX10]

I really wanna see flowey become playable
Hes just soo much more important too undertale and i love his demonic (and funny) antics

Which ut or dr (chapter 1 or 2) character over than sans do you wanna see!

Wouldn't Frisk, Sans, Papyrus or even Undyne make more sense for the undertale rep?
As for the Deltarune rep i'd like to see, then Susie.

 

[Dukefire]

I don't know about that. The crest, scarf, and the spy look he got sure makes him stand out to me. But the people on GameFAQs took it too far by saying he looks no different from a ninja enemy that you fight.

There's nothing wrong with thinking "ninja" when you look at him but that's the whole point; Hayabusa is an old school character from the 80s where characters were a lot more simpler. He was created during the Ninja Boom and was also one of the earliest ninja heroes in video games.

So yeah, he's about as ninja as you would expect because he came from a ninja era in pop culture.

TBH, GameFAQ and Twitter are some places you don't want to do character discussions since it is a place where drama storms form often. I don't play Ninja Gaiden, but I can try out the NES game one day via NSO or ROM.

Though, how hard is Ninja Gaiden on the NES?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Id prefer a meter that builds up and you can do multiple arsene transformations from agumon to greymon, metal greymon, and wargreymon, and if you let it build up without using it you can warp digivolve straight to wargreymon. Tell me that wouldn't be sick.

Hmm...

Maybe you could make it so that it's tough to get to the final stage in 1 stock (and if you do you're probably going to be at 100+ percent), but while you de-Digivolve when you die, you keep any "XP" in your meter. The tradeoff being that you stay as a weaker form for longer, betting it all on your next stock.

I don't know about that. The crest, scarf, and the spy look he got sure makes him stand out to me. But the people on GameFAQs took it too far by saying he looks no different from a ninja enemy that you fight.

There's nothing wrong with thinking "ninja" when you look at him but that's the whole point; Hayabusa is an old school character from the 80s where characters were a lot more simpler. He was created during the Ninja Boom and was also one of the earliest ninja heroes in video games.

So yeah, he's about as ninja as you would expect because he came from a ninja era in pop culture.

Yeah, it's the whole "it founded the widely used trope, so it does not subvert it, therefore it's generic" deal going on here. However, it's kind of the job of characters/series like this to keep the trope, so it's not really a bad point.

Besides, tropes like this start with nuanced properties that aren't adopted by other media in order to be at least a little different so they're often less generic than what people are used to anyway.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Mortal Kombat characters may not be coming to Smash Bros., but it was just confirmed that they are coming to Fortnite.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I really wanna see flowey become playable
Hes just soo much more important too undertale and i love his demonic (and funny) antics

He is more likely to be a boss if there is Undertale content in the base game.

 

[Gengar84]

Mortal Kombat characters may not be coming to Smash Bros., but it was just confirmed that they are coming to Fortnite. View attachment 399084

Nice, and the exact outfit I’d want for Smash too. That’s a good sign. If nothing else, it makes for a good model to use for a Smash mod.

 

[mynameisBlade]

The most likely candidate would be Scorpion. And his original fatality wasn't even gory. It's just flame breathing someone. Which multiple Smash characters already have had that as their FS.

Yea let's get Scorpion as the base and all the alternates paying tribute to the rest of the ninjas. Maybe even 3 Scorpion alternates that all pull you toward him (Smoke, Ermac, and Rain could fit this), with the other 3 Sub Zero alternates that freeze you or give you a status effect like Reptiles poison, Noobs cloud, or Tremors boulder.

Sakurai usually pays very close attention to detail, so if we got Scorpion, I have no doubt he'd have Sub Zero as a pallet swap with an Ice Ball in the move set somewhere. Hell, we could even get a Sub Zero Echo Fighter if they choose to go after MK seeing as it'd be just as much work if not more than getting Banjo/Steve in Ultimate.

 

[Gengar84]

Is it weird that for both the MK ninjas and the TMNT, my favorite versions of the characters were when they were essentially palate swaps of each other?

 

[Wonder Smash]

TBH, GameFAQ and Twitter are some places you don't want to do character discussions since it is a place where drama storms form often. I don't play Ninja Gaiden, but I can try out the NES game one day via NSO or ROM.

Though, how hard is Ninja Gaiden on the NES?

It's known for being one the hardest games on the NES...which it is. I can tell you that myself.

 

[Dukefire]

Yea let's get Scorpion as the base and all the alternates paying tribute to the rest of the ninjas. Maybe even 3 Scorpion alternates that all pull you toward him (Smoke, Ermac, and Rain could fit this), with the other 3 Sub Zero alternates that freeze you or give you a status effect like Reptiles poison/Noobs Smoke cloud, or Tremors boulder throw.

Sakurai usually pays very close attention to detail, so if we got Scorpion, I have no doubt he'd have Sub Zero as a pallet swap with an Ice Ball in the move set somewhere.


View attachment 399083

You know, it would be funny if PINK was an alt as to a nod to Floyd in MK 1. Though, Mortal Kombat isn't my cup of tea, but I know fatalities was the signature in the game. But, Sakurai could find a way around it IF it Japan's customs can stomach the idea.

It's known for being one the hardest games on the NES.

Oh geez......that is going to be fun.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Yea let's get Scorpion as the base and all the alternates paying tribute to the rest of the ninjas. Maybe even 3 Scorpion alternates that all pull you toward him (Smoke, Ermac, and Rain could fit this), with the other 3 Sub Zero alternates that freeze you or give you a status effect like Reptiles poison/Noobs cloud, or Tremors boulder.

Sakurai usually pays very close attention to detail, so if we got Scorpion, I have no doubt he'd have Sub Zero as a pallet swap with an Ice Ball in the move set somewhere.


View attachment 399083

Sakurai also doesn’t want character costumes to have different attributes between each other. It’s why characters like Lucina and Dark Pit are not costumes. Sub Zero would have to be an echo fighter at the very least.

 

[Gengar84]

It's known for being one the hardest games on the NES...which it is. I can tell you that myself.

That’s something we have in common for our most wanted characters.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

The one thing I hope in general is for Final Smashes to be more distinct since several of them are essentially just the same theme.

I think Inkling, Chrom, Ken, and Plant are the only new characters with original Final Smashes where they don’t just send a character to a place with a hitbox.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Sakurai also doesn’t want character costumes to have different attributes between each other. It’s why characters like Lucina and Dark Pit are not costumes. Sub Zero would have to be an echo fighter at the very least.

I'd be down for it. I actually like playing as Sub Zero more, but Scorpions design has always been peak, especially after they were made less aesthetically similar. Plus...Scorpion had a voice in gaming before even Mario did, so we HAVE to have the "GET OVER HERE!"

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Less RNG mechanics for Hero.

Actually that's what I hope will happen rather than think will happen. Hero's not OP but I'd be lying if I said I considered them a fun character to fight.

Hero without RNG and his spell menu would be so boring tho. That basically would take away what makes him unique.

 

[Dukefire]

Hero without RNG and his spell menu would be so boring tho. That basically would take away what makes him unique.

Don't forget that Dragon Quest is the Grandfather to all RPGs. It is the game that started RPGs to exist with Akira Toriyama's design to breathe life.

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Yea let's get Scorpion as the base and all the alternates paying tribute to the rest of the ninjas. Maybe even 3 Scorpion alternates that all pull you toward him (Smoke, Ermac, and Rain could fit this), with the other 3 Sub Zero alternates that freeze you or give you a status effect like Reptiles poison, Noobs cloud, or Tremors boulder.

Sakurai usually pays very close attention to detail, so if we got Scorpion, I have no doubt he'd have Sub Zero as a pallet swap with an Ice Ball in the move set somewhere. Hell, we could even get a Sub Zero Echo Fighter if they choose to go after MK seeing as it'd be just as much work if not more than getting Banjo/Steve in Ultimate.


View attachment 399083

Scorpion is my biggest pick for a Mortal Kombat rep,but i think that his costumes could be based on his versions (3 is classic Scorpion,3 is MKX Scorpion and 2 are MK1 Scorpion) could be similar from Sub-Zero's Alt costumes on the Smashboards Creates thread Super Smash Bros. Infinite Beyond

 

[Golden Icarus]

Spell menu is fun. Critical hits are wack.

I'd be down for it. I actually like playing as Sub Zero more, but Scorpions design has always been peak, especially after they were made less visually similar. Plus...Scorpion had a voice in gaming before even Mario did, so we HAVE to have the "GET OVER HERE!"

I also like Sub-Zero a lot more. He’s one of my favorite characters to play in every MK, but I also prefer Scorpion in Smash for that exact reason and it has to be his neutral B. It would be an actual crime if we don’t get to hear Kirby say “Get over here!”

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Though, how hard is Ninja Gaiden on the NES?

IIRC the main problems are:

1. You have a small sword slash to hit things with
2. Like in the Mega Man series, if an enemy's spawn point is off screen, and the enemy in question has been defeated, the enemy will spawn in again when it's spawn point comes back on screen.
   • Ninja Gaiden's handling of this is extremely aggressive though. To the point where executing the most intuitive strategies when dealing with enemies can often get you killed because they come back and jumpscare you when you thought you had dealt with them already.
3. Every hit deals knockback like in Castlevania, and bottomless pits are extremely common.
   • IIRC this knockback is not present in Ninja Gaiden III.

 

[BrawlX10]

Now that Undertale has beeen brough up, who do you think it's the most likely UT rep? Sans, Papyrus, Frisk or Undyne?

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Now that Undertale has beeen brough up, who do you think it's the most likely UT rep? Sans, Papyrus, Frisk or Undyne?

Sans or Frisk are probably the most likely.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Now that Undertale has beeen brough up, who do you think it's the most likely UT rep? Sans, Papyrus, Frisk or Undyne?

Papyrus on the battleground with Sans in the background watching and using Gaster Blasters to help once Papyrus is over 100%.


....but Sans takes top billing in the team name regardless.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Sans getting the costume makes me think he would be the natural choice for a UT rep. There have been cases where Sakurai would have been fine adding a mascot or side character over the main protagonist, like Slime with Dragon Quest, but it isn't something I'd say Smash does very often.

Although Frisk/Chara is the protagonist, it's a bit hard to incorporate a pacifist moveset into a fighting game, and the alternative is just going all in on the 'soulless knife child' archetype, so I think unless Sakurai comes up with some wacky way to make them work, a side character would be my preferred choice.

One thing I can really easily imagine is a Flowey assist. Pops out from the ground a few times with a sound effect, throws out some directional 'Friendliness Pellets', does the laugh with Ronald McDonald's voice, disappears.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Although Frisk/Chara is the protagonist, it's a bit hard to incorporate a pacifist moveset into a fighting game, and the alternative is just going all in on the 'soulless knife child' archetype, so I think unless Sakurai comes up with some wacky way to make them work, a side character would be my preferred choice.

Honestly if you were to do justice to the character, you'd probably have to do both since the point of him is that he could go either way.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Now that Undertale has beeen brough up, who do you think it's the most likely UT rep? Sans, Papyrus, Frisk or Undyne?

Probably Sans but I think it'd be really fun if the trailer was set up like a Sans reveal, only for him to shrug it off and hand the invite to his bro so he can go be a fighter and make tons of new friends and become popular and everything like Papyrus wanted to when you first meet him in Undertale.

 

[Oracle Link]

Wouldn't Frisk, Sans, Papyrus or even Undyne make more sense for the undertale rep?
As for the Deltarune rep i'd like to see, then Susie.

I mean frisk would be the objectivly best choice to rep the game as a whole!

I have to repeat myself sans canonically wouldnt fight himself (confirmed in the newsletter!)
The only way i see him fighting while not betraying his character would be if you start as papyrus and if he gets killed him you change to sans!

Like ut and dr a full of characters and while people (me included) love sans him in genomode would not represent undertale well might as well make mindcontroled snowgrave noelle playable!

 

[Opossum]

I mean frisk would be the objectivly best choice to rep the game as a whole!

You've been told not to conflate objectivity with subjectivity before and yet you're still doing it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have to repeat myself sans canonically wouldnt fight himself (confirmed in the newsletter!)

Smash isn't cannon though.

It's also a friendly brawl in context, so I don't think Sans dunking on an imposter/alternate version of himself is too out of character.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'd love to see both Scorpion and Sub-Zero get into Smash.

 

[cashregister9]

I kinda think that Frisk is one of the weaker choices for an Undertale character tbh.

Outside of how that would conflict with the themes and story of Undertale (which I think is important for capturing the vibes of Undertale) I mostly just haven't seen a moveset proposal that isn't either overly complicated (I've seen multiple whole ass morality system) or a summon fighter.

I also think that Undertale/Deltarune's supporting cast is one of the most iconic casts in at least the last 15 years of gaming, and forgoing any of those characters for the deliberate blank slate would not represent Undertale very well.

I think some combination of sans and/or Papyrus is probably the most likely and all around best pick, but I do maintain that Undyne is a sleeper pick.

 

[ninjahmos]

Now that Undertale has beeen brough up, who do you think it's the most likely UT rep? Sans, Papyrus, Frisk or Undyne?

Either Sans or Papyrus.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I also just think Papyrus would be fun because I imagine he'd go all in on expressiveness as such a quirky comedic character. Like his run would be an overly exaggerated heroic gait, his moves would all come with the style and flair of the one and only CoolSkeleton95, his sprites in-game include his eyes bugging out for things like taking damage, kinda like DK does.

I just think he'd be a lot more fun visually than Sans, who doesn't change his expression very much. I do still think Sans would be fun, a lazy slacker is a fun personality to inform his normals, I just think Papyrus would be one of the most stylish dudes we've ever seen lmao

 

[Ivander]

Fire Emblem fans: "Can we have Edelgard for Fortnite Smash Bros?"
Epic Games Nintendo: "We have Edelgard at home."
Edelgard and Hubert at home:

Epic Games failing the "Try to be subtle at wanting Nintendo IPs in your game." challenge.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Hero without RNG and his spell menu would be so boring tho. That basically would take away what makes him unique.

I can agree with that, but that doesn't mean fighting a character who can use several deadly attacks at random or randomly kill you on the spot just for landing two specific attacks from their spell menu above a certain damage percentage, completely foregoing the blast zones and.momentum always needed by literally any other character to K.O without items, is fun.

You can rework Hero's moveset and take away their randomly determined instant death attacks without removing their unique primary RNG mechanic or making them underpowered.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I wish Sephiroth’s down air felt a little more impactful. It’s a reference to such a huge moment in the story but it feels a little weak. I think if it had a sticky mechanic that dragged down opponents it hit with him that would be really cool.

It should've had Aerith's corpse on the tip of the blade.

If you played FF7, you don't even need to click the spoiler to know the joke