Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hell, I still maintain that you could do a whole sans moveset without Sans ever using a single gaster blaster or anything he actually uses in his boss fight.

You could, but stripping his moveset of any reference to his boss fight which is by far the most iconic thing about Sans (you really think Ultimate having MEGALOVANIA and the Sans outfit being a Gunner with a Gaster Blaster for a gun was for fun?) is very much the antithesis of Sakurai's direction with characters.

It ain't happening as long as Sakurai runs the ship is what I'm saying.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You could, but stripping him of any reference to his boss fight which is by far the most iconic thing about Sans (you really think Ultimate having MEGALOVANIA and the Sans outfit being a Gunner with a Gaster Blaster for a gun was for fun?) is very much the antithesis of Sakurai's direction with characters.

It ain't happening as long as Sakurai runs the ship is what I'm saying.

At the very least even if it's not in his normal kit, it'd almost certainly have a part in his Final Smash, which I imagine would either be his opening move or a shortened version of the last move he does before his special attack in the boss fight.

 

[BrawlX10]

I haven’t talked a ton about Chrono here despite it being one of my favorite franchises and Magus being one of my favorite gaming characters. I think I didn’t have a lot of hope that there was much a chance but the 30th anniversary announcement is giving me a bit of hope. There’s still a ton of competition even within Square-Enix itself but I think there’s a real shot for DLC now. I’d much prefer Magus to Crono for the reasons I stated above but I’ll take what I can get. Hopefully I’ll have more to talk about as they share more information.

I think Chrono is definitely possible. It's a beloved franchise.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

At the very least even if it's not in his normal kit, it'd almost certainly have a part in his Final Smash, which I imagine would either be his opening move or a shortened version of the last move he does before his special attack in the boss fight.

Honestly, having some telekinesis followed by Gaster Blasters could make for a really cool cinematic Final Smash.

Or if they want to be funny, replicate the cutscene to look at though you're actually in Undertale's combat system.

 

[Megadoomer]

I just had a thought.

Final Fantasy is Square Enix's, mostly Square's biggest IP, is it not? I bet it has a lot of characters people want to see in Smash Brothers. The problem is, to me, that there are many characters from many different games, all with different settings, stories and characters that are not the same cast and such throughout the series. However, the bigger problem is, what can characters offer from that series that does not have to do with swordsmanship, magic and other things that can be seen in the series, that many other characters already in Smash Bros. have? I am not doubting that there are characters who are exceptions to this, and I even bet that there are characters that actually are exceptions, but I wonder how many of them are the main characters/villains/etc. We do have Cloud and Sephiroth in Smash Bros. as of Ultimate, but aside from perhaps Black Mage, Laguna Loire from Final Fantasy VIII, Terra from Final Fantasy VI and maybe Clive, well, correct me on why I may be wrong, because I'd like to know what characters can offer from the Final Fantasy series, for even if there are more unique ones, I do not see them getting in over the main characters, or maybe main villains in Sephiroth's case. I do also think Enix's Dragon Quest, aside from monsters like Slime, could be the same case. I am not saying that Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are all about swords and magic. Far from it.

I just want to see where I could be wrong.

EDIT: I mean, they all have the "star power", do they not? Still, they seem to have varying degrees of importance in gaming compared to one another, the characters in Final Fantasy games. Plus, with so much a character can offer with so little in terms of who can get in, I can't say it will be easy for Sakurai to choose who gets in, let alone deciding which characters can offer a lot in terms of gameplay. There are so many Final Fantasy characters, I don't see too many of them getting in as playables in future Smash Bros. games.

We don't have a ton of "pure" mages in Smash (the main ones that come to mind are Zelda and maybe Palutena), and Kefka from Final Fantasy 6 could serve as an example of that kind of character. Also, it would give an excuse to include his theme song - all 17 minutes of it.

A Black Mage (or Vivi from FF9 for a specific character) could also work, but I'd love to see Dancing Mad in Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

We don't have a ton of "pure" mages in Smash (the main ones that come to mind are Zelda and maybe Palutena), and Kefka from Final Fantasy 6 could serve as an example of that kind of character. Also, it would give an excuse to include his theme song - all 17 minutes of it.

A Black Mage (or Vivi from FF9 for a specific character) could also work, but I'd love to see Dancing Mad in Smash.

I feel like Lucas has a lot in common with the classic black mage archetypes. He’s got the three main elements for his specials with PK Fire, PK Thunder, and PK Freeze. Vivi actually makes a great model swap mod over him and it feels pretty natural. They could definitely make Vivi distinct from Lucas but he’d still likely have the main three elemental attacks for his specials. I think Lulu would be the most mechanically interesting black mage because she’s basically a combination of a puppeteer like Rosalina and a more typical mage. I wouldn’t complain either way because I do like Vivi.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In an odd twist, the first prominent spear user in Smash Bros history turns out to be the unexpected inclusion of Mog in the next game:

 

[CosmicEternity44]

We don't have a ton of "pure" mages in Smash (the main ones that come to mind are Zelda and maybe Palutena), and Kefka from Final Fantasy 6 could serve as an example of that kind of character. Also, it would give an excuse to include his theme song - all 17 minutes of it.

A Black Mage (or Vivi from FF9 for a specific character) could also work, but I'd love to see Dancing Mad in Smash.

I know what I mean. We could also use some more pure mages in Smash to be honest. I would like to see Black Mage, whether or not it is Vivi.

 

[NotGenerico]

I just had a thought.

Final Fantasy is Square Enix's, mostly Square's biggest IP, is it not? I bet it has a lot of characters people want to see in Smash Brothers. The problem is, to me, that there are many characters from many different games, all with different settings, stories and characters that are not the same cast and such throughout the series. However, the bigger problem is, what can characters offer from that series that does not have to do with swordsmanship, magic and other things that can be seen in the series, that many other characters already in Smash Bros. have? I am not doubting that there are characters who are exceptions to this, and I even bet that there are characters that actually are exceptions, but I wonder how many of them are the main characters/villains/etc. We do have Cloud and Sephiroth in Smash Bros. as of Ultimate, but aside from perhaps Black Mage, Laguna Loire from Final Fantasy VIII, Terra from Final Fantasy VI and maybe Clive, well, correct me on why I may be wrong, because I'd like to know what characters can offer from the Final Fantasy series, for even if there are more unique ones, I do not see them getting in over the main characters, or maybe main villains in Sephiroth's case. I do also think Enix's Dragon Quest, aside from monsters like Slime, could be the same case. I am not saying that Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are all about swords and magic. Far from it.

I just want to see where I could be wrong.

EDIT: I mean, they all have the "star power", do they not? Still, they seem to have varying degrees of importance in gaming compared to one another, the characters in Final Fantasy games. Plus, with so much a character can offer with so little in terms of who can get in, I can't say it will be easy for Sakurai to choose who gets in, let alone deciding which characters can offer a lot in terms of gameplay. There are so many Final Fantasy characters, I don't see too many of them getting in as playables in future Smash Bros. games.

I think it's funny you mention Clive. I think he doesn't have a lot in common with other Final Fantasy characters in terms of possible moveset. Instead he's a weird amalgamation of several DMC characters due to FFXVI sharing the same combat director as DMCV.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

At the very least even if it's not in his normal kit, it'd almost certainly have a part in his Final Smash, which I imagine would either be his opening move or a shortened version of the last move he does before his special attack in the boss fight.

Those two options are the most likely although I think a weaker version of the blaster will probably be used in stuff such as specials and smash attacks.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Music app just updated, and I was a bit surprised by this one since it's Tetris on the Game Boy.

Was mostly surprised because Nintendo doesn't own Tetris and the intellectual property notices in the app just list the game for most of the tracks (possibly because they're older folk songs that would likely be free use), but list Nintendo's copyright specifically for the surprise inclusion of an Early Version of A-Type, as well as for B-Type and the title screen.

A light addition, just 10 minutes of music, but essentially a third party inclusion on the music app, and one with very interesting specifics at that lol

 

[SneakyLink]

Music app just updated, and I was a bit surprised by this one since it's Tetris on the Game Boy.

Was mostly surprised because Nintendo doesn't own Tetris and the intellectual property notices in the app just list the game for most of the tracks, but list Nintendo's copyright specifically for the surprise inclusion of an Early Version of A-Type, as well as for B-Type and the title screen.

A light addition, just 10 minutes of music, but essentially a third party inclusion on the music app, and one with very interesting specifics at that lol

It’s actually a triple update as NES Tetris, and NES Dr. Mario were also added.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It’s actually a triple update as NES Tetris, and NES Dr. Mario were also added.

Oh, neat! I only saw the Game Boy one on the home page and after Mario 2's 8 minutes was added solo a few weeks ago, I figured that was it lol

Maybe after they did that, they decided to start doing what I was hoping they'd do with NES/Game Boy soundtracks that are really short and upload multiple at once lmao

 

[HyperSomari64]

Music app just updated, and I was a bit surprised by this one since it's Tetris on the Game Boy.

Was mostly surprised because Nintendo doesn't own Tetris and the intellectual property notices in the app just list the game for most of the tracks (possibly because they're older folk songs that would likely be free use), but list Nintendo's copyright specifically for the surprise inclusion of an Early Version of A-Type, as well as for B-Type and the title screen.

A light addition, just 10 minutes of music, but essentially a third party inclusion on the music app, and one with very interesting specifics at that lol

The chances for more music from Third Party games had skyrocket.
only if the games from those franchises were on a Nintendo console.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Music app just updated, and I was a bit surprised by this one since it's Tetris on the Game Boy.

Was mostly surprised because Nintendo doesn't own Tetris and the intellectual property notices in the app just list the game for most of the tracks (possibly because they're older folk songs that would likely be free use), but list Nintendo's copyright specifically for the surprise inclusion of an Early Version of A-Type, as well as for B-Type and the title screen.

A light addition, just 10 minutes of music, but essentially a third party inclusion on the music app, and one with very interesting specifics at that lol

Maybe Nintendo owns the soundtrack for the GB version specifically like how the remix for A-Type in Smash is owned by Nintendo (“Arrangement Copyright Nintendo”)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Maybe Nintendo owns the soundtrack for the GB version specifically like how the remix for A-Type in Smash is owned by Nintendo (“Arrangement Copyright Nintendo”)

Probably, since the original tracks are copyrighted to them.

I'm just like, you'd probably have to ask the Tetris Company for permission for images of the games and especially using the name in this capacity, right?

The third party thing is mostly me just being like "maybe stuff like Mario RPG or like Fortune Street or even Mario & Sonic at the Olympics wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility here", like games that have involvement of both parties, rather than just games on Nintendo hardware or games they've published.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Music app just updated, and I was a bit surprised by this one since it's Tetris on the Game Boy.

Was mostly surprised because Nintendo doesn't own Tetris and the intellectual property notices in the app just list the game for most of the tracks (possibly because they're older folk songs that would likely be free use), but list Nintendo's copyright specifically for the surprise inclusion of an Early Version of A-Type, as well as for B-Type and the title screen.

A light addition, just 10 minutes of music, but essentially a third party inclusion on the music app, and one with very interesting specifics at that lol

Game companies own the rights to their versions of Tetris

 

[cashregister9]

Even if we are talking about just the classic Tetris Type-A theme, it is just a russian folk song which means there really isn't a copyright required.

which means sometimes things can also get really silly

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Even if we are talking about just the classic Tetris Type-A theme, it is just a russian folk song which means there really isn't a copyright required.

There usually isn't but the Tetris Company still has one for specifically the video game medium, iirc.

Copyright law is a mess.

 

[cashregister9]

There usually isn't but the Tetris Company still has one for specifically the video game medium, iirc.

Copyright law is a mess.

I just find it funny how Tetris copyright law specifically is a much more notable mess than the trashfire that is Copyright law normally.

 

[Oracle Link]

so what you're saying Darunia should be playable

Not neccesarily him but we despratly need more goron love!
Like a stage, at, mii costume and music at the very least!
Preferably daruk or imo yunobo being turned playable!

 

[Thegameandwatch]

There should be new Zelda characters in general since there hasn’t been an original one since Melee.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hell, I still maintain that you could do a whole sans moveset without Sans ever using a single gaster blaster or anything he actually uses in his boss fight.

Why would you make a fighting game moveset for a character that specifically ignores referencing their fight scenes?

Also, it would give an excuse to include his theme song - all 17 minutes of it.

Yeah given how Smash handles long songs they'd totally butcher it just to fit it into 2-3 minutes. The best we could hope for is each phase of the fight getting in separately...Actually, that's probably the most likely scenario, especially given that the song plays itself in looping sections in the source material.

You know, it would be kinda epic if they did have a long version that transitioned from section as the fight went on. It would be a bit difficult to make flow with the default 2:00 matches since it would be switching parts every 30 seconds, but it would probably work pretty well in longer matches like the current 3 stock 7 minutes ruleset (though I suppose the odd numbers would probably cause some weirdness there too).

Slightly off topic, but it's kinda weird that Dark Pit's Theme is untouched despite being 5 minutes long.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There should be new Zelda characters in general since there hasn’t been an original one since Melee.

I think it's likely we get someone from Breath of the Wild specifically since its highly speculated BotW gets a Switch 2 remaster. I could see one of the Champions or Sages, or Kogha alongside Impa being added. With a revamped Ganondorf of course.

 

[cashregister9]

Why would you make a fighting game moveset for a character that specifically ignores referencing their fight scenes?

Because it would be funny

And also I think it would just fits sans' character a bit better. Not saying it is the only option, but it is an option that I think would be fun

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Slightly off topic, but it's kinda weird that Dark Pit's Theme is untouched despite being 5 minutes long.

Sakurai giving his baby special treatment of course.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Even the ones from the Zelda games on the Phillips CD-?

Can't wait to play some of the most impactful characters to gaming, like Bubsy Bobcat, the Cheetahmen, and Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde.

Okay, POSITIVE impact.

We don't need no Superman 64 up in here.

Come to think of it, would Chrono from Chrono Trigger count as another Square Enix character who could get into Smash Bros.?

Yes. Though I think it might need a remake to boost him to the requisite relevance.

Was mostly surprised because Nintendo doesn't own Tetris and the intellectual property notices in the app just list the game for most of the tracks (possibly because they're older folk songs that would likely be free use), but list Nintendo's copyright specifically for the surprise inclusion of an Early Version of A-Type, as well as for B-Type and the title screen.

I assume because Nintendo wrote the music themselves, they don't need Tetris' permission to use it when the game isn't attached.

 

[dream1ng]

Music app just updated, and I was a bit surprised by this one since it's Tetris on the Game Boy.

Was mostly surprised because Nintendo doesn't own Tetris and the intellectual property notices in the app just list the game for most of the tracks (possibly because they're older folk songs that would likely be free use), but list Nintendo's copyright specifically for the surprise inclusion of an Early Version of A-Type, as well as for B-Type and the title screen.

A light addition, just 10 minutes of music, but essentially a third party inclusion on the music app, and one with very interesting specifics at that lol

I would assume as the developer and publisher, Nintendo owns everything original to the Game Boy version, which includes the music that isn't pre-existing compositions. Sort of like how they don't own SimCity, but they do own the original Dr. Wright.

If anything, A-Type and C-Type are pieces not technically owned by Nintendo, but they're also free use.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I would assume as the developer and publisher, Nintendo owns everything original to the Game Boy version, which includes the music that isn't pre-existing compositions. Sort of like how they don't own SimCity, but they do own the original Dr. Wright.

If anything, A-Type and C-Type are pieces not technically owned by Nintendo, but they're also free use.

Yeah, I figure that much for both version since Nintendo's copyright is on the original non-folk song music, I think I was mostly thinking of the implication of soundtracks related to Nintendo that they might not necessarily own, like Mario RPG and stuff, since I imagine they'd still probably have to ask The Tetris Company about using the name on a new platform at least, since the name has the little R next to instances of the name Tetris since it's a registered trademark they don't own lol

Might not mean much since there's a big difference between slapping an R next to Tetris for music you own vs a soundtrack you don't own that's just related to your characters, but that was my main thought process lol