Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the problem with large stages is purely how the existing ones are designed. Most of them are either oddly claustrophobic because they consist of a billion tiny platforms, or they're just too big and even in 8-Player Smash you can be left alone for just about the entire match. Some of them even have both of these problems.

Spoiler: Thoughts on Individual Stages

• Temple: This one is an immediate exception to the rule, essentially acting as 3 stages in one that flow together quite nicely. Most of the time if a character doesn't want to be in a space anymore, they can leave with ease, but there's always room for you to hold your ground. There's a reason why it's the only one people really like.
• 75m: Despite having so much space there is nowhere to stand. The only area that's good for fighting gets periodically bombarded by bouncing springs of death.
• New Pork City: It's trying to do much the same thing as Temple, but the three areas are spread farther apart, the left side isn't that great for fighting, the right side has way too many platforms above it, and the bottom has a huge danger area due to the low ceiling above a pit, and part of the section keeps falling out.
• Big Battlefield: It's mostly just boring, but fighting on the semi-solid platforms is also kind of a problem. I think it might have been better if there were less, larger platforms instead of a billion small ones.
• The Great Cave Offensive: Entirely too large. Even in 8 player smash it's far too easy to just mind your own business in a corner somewhere, and the fact that it's kind of a chore to navigate doesn't help either. The lava that's everywhere makes it so risky to engage opponents, and since everyone spawns at the top and has to move downward, you end up just staying up there assuming you do choose to fight.
• Palutena's Temple: Still too big, but fighting on it is actually quite doable.
• Gaur Plain: There's nowhere to stand, and then Metal Face shows up and makes all the CPUs congregate to one side.

 

[RileyXY1]

Another unique stage I'm envisioning is Maridia from Super Metroid, mostly due to it being the very first stage to allow players to fight underwater.

 

[ninjahmos]

Y'know what I think would be a pretty cool Metroid stage? Phendrana Drifts

I mean, how many ice stages do we have in Smash, really? Not that many. Besides, I think this is a pretty cool location that could be turned into a Smash stage.

 

[fogbadge]

Y'know what I think would be a pretty cool Metroid stage? Phendrana Drifts

I mean, how many ice stages do we have in Smash, really? Not that many. Besides, I think this is a pretty cool location that could be turned into a Smash stage.

we’ve had two overall and never in the same game. and I’d certainly like more. I keep meaning to bring up the topic

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean, how many ice stages do we have in Smash, really?

Only the Ice Climber stages.

We've also only had one desert stage if I remember correctly and it's only because Mushroomy Kingdom was weird.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

We've also only had one desert stage if I remember correctly and it's only because Mushroomy Kingdom was weird.

Gerudo Valley is not all that memorable a stage, but it qualifies.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gerudo Valley is not all that memorable a stage, but it qualifies.

Well no. That is a memorable stage. But I don't think the canyon counts as a desert. Like there's a river and waterfall there. It's not a desert.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, Gerudo Valley is more of a Badlands inspired area than a Desert inspired one, depending on how distinct you want to count those.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Y'know what I think would be a pretty cool Metroid stage? Phendrana Drifts

I mean, how many ice stages do we have in Smash, really? Not that many. Besides, I think this is a pretty cool location that could be turned into a Smash stage.

Ice/snow levels have always been an aesthetic I love and wish we had more of. There are the 2 Ice Climber stages, and if you want to get really technical we also have Shadow Moses Island and the Brawl Yoshi’s Island and Pokemon Stadium 2 stages can turn snowy mid match.

I’d love to have one of the snowy areas from any of the Mother games as a stage.

An ice level based on Tropical Freeze would also make a lot of sense.

Really though the ice/snow variants of these stages need to be made into stand alone stages.

 

[Schnee117]

We need the definitive snowy fighting game stage

 

[SharkLord]

Well no. That is a memorable stage. But I don't think the canyon counts as a desert. Like there's a river and waterfall there. It's not a desert.

well technically speaking, rivers do run through deserts. Hell, the Grand Canyon is located in a desert region. When people think of deserts, it's usually as a big sea of sand (known as egs), but most deserts are actually rocky, badland-esque regions.

Regardless of pedantics, ergs and badlands do tend to lean into different aesthetics, so we could probably throw in a more "traditional" desert stage and it would still remain distinct from Gerudo Valley

 

[Ivander]

You know how you could keep the whole "Jungle Hijinx" theme for DK while giving a notably different looking DK stage? Homecoming Hijinx.

Next Smash really needs to give an influx of stages for all of the games that are both new and missed out on stages for Smash Ultimate.

 

[Idon]

Desert stage that is both memorable and an early starting location?

This looks like a job for SMTV:

Not just a desert, but a blasted desert with modern skyscraper ruins and weird demonic obelisks dotting the area.

 

[cashregister9]

Ever heard of this obscure game called "Skyrim"

heard it has some snow and is good for a stage

 

[Ivander]

Desert stage that is both memorable and an early starting location?

This looks like a job for SMTV:

View attachment 396547

Not just a desert, but a blasted desert with modern skyscraper ruins and weird demonic obelisks dotting the area.

That's just Mars from Doom.

The real twist nobody was expecting. Doom and Shin Megami Tensei taking place in the same universe. Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series.

 

[ninjahmos]

It'd probably never happen, but you know what I think would be a pretty cool desert stage for Smash? Sand Ocean (F-Zero)

 

[Schnee117]

Ever heard of this obscure game called "Skyrim"

heard it has some snow and is good for a stage

You can't fool me Todd Howard

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's one of those things that you don't notice until someone brings it up, but yeah it's incredibly weird that the only stages that we have that depict a staple platformer level theme are Ice Climber, Ice Climber again because people didn't like the previous one, Pokémon's Stadium's ice type transformation, and a snowy visual transformation that is kinda sorta reminiscent of some Yoshi's Island stages.

It'd probably never happen, but you know what I think would be a pretty cool desert stage for Smash? Sand Ocean (F-Zero)

SSF2 has Sand Ocean as a stage...It's really boring.

To be fair, Sakurai would probably be a bit more creative than "Big Blue, but without any cars and the Falcon Flyer doesn't really move, and sometimes you go into a tunnel for a bit".

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

If we're talking deserts, I also wouldn't mind if Originull Wasteland was our Forgotten Land stage, because it'd let the team include The Wastes Where Life Began to the soundtrack lol

Would also be hyped for a Neksdor stage from Miitopia, but I want Miitopia to get more in general next game.

 

[PeridotGX]

I started this discussion, I think it's time I post what I've written down. It's a big list, so to give people time to digest it I'm going to break it down into chunks. This post is going to be Mario (specifically stages with the mushroom icon, not associated series like Donkey Kong)

Spoiler: Mario - 2D Platformers

• Pipe Rock Plateau (Super Mario Bros. Wonder)

Wow, a grass plain Mario stage! I know it's not very original, but I'm getting rid of most of the old ones so it's not that bad. I'm envisioning a layout like the Mushroom Kingdom stages from Melee and 64, with the gimmick of course being that a wonder flower will show up and cause things to change on the stage. I'd take a few from the early part of Wonder (moving pipes, singing Pirahna plants, a Bullrush stampede, etc), but I'd also try to come up with a few unique ideas - it would almost be out of character if the wonder flower was entirely what you expect! Talking flowers would of course also be on the stage and provide commentary.​

• Lake Lapcat (Bowser’s Fury)

Another fairly obvious pick, all things considered. That being said, if we get a new 3D Mario before the next Smash drops I'm probably going to swap this for something from that. There's a bit of thematic overlap with another stage later in the post. Anyways - the Lake Lapcat stage is a more typical Smash stage layout, a tower on one of the islands (which you can swim in). Occasionally Fury Bowser shows up and causes a ruckus.​

• Airship (Super Mario Bros. 3)

For the series that i'm giving multiple new stages, I'm trying to go for at least one representing a newer game and something from an older game. There's never been a Mario 3 stage, so I figured it was the best choice, and going for an airship felt more interesting than a generic "Mushroom Kingdom III". It also wouldn't be a "so retro" stage, it would be fully modeled. The idea in my head is for it to be something of an autoscroller, with a procession of airships slowly flying while the camera stays in the same place. Each individual airship could be procedurally generated, with factors like size, shape, and hazards like cannons and fire bars appearing or disappearing​

• Princess Peach's Castle (Melee)

I'm not going to go into as much detail for the returning stages. Peach's Castle is an iconic location, I think it deserves to stick around, and this stage does a good enough job of representing it.​

• Super Mario Maker (Smash 4)

Mario Maker is still relevant, and this stage encapsulate it pretty much perfectly. Adding a new stage to represent it feels pretty pointless.​

• New Donk City (Ultimate)

Mario Odyssey is still somewhat relevant, adding another stage from it would be a waste of resources, and it's only been around for one game. It lives​

Spoiler: Mario Kart

• Bowser’s Castle (Mario Kart 8)

Don't worry, I didn't forget to rectify the biggest problem with Ultimate's stage roster - I just decided to pull from Mario Kart. Like with Lake Lapcat, if there's a new Mario Kart game by the time the next Smash rolls around, I'll probably swap over to that. This stage would mostly focus on the giant Bowser statue in the back, which would fling fireballs and punch the stage. Maybe even throw in an anti-gravity gimmick?​

• Figure 8 Circuit (Mario Kart DS, returning from Brawl)

Because Bowser's Castle is mostly based on the one from 8 (for now), I chose to bring back the Brawl version of this stage.​

• Rainbow Road (Mario Kart 7, returning from Smash 4)

The only stage that missed Ultimate that I'm bringing back. I'm assuming they didn't bring it back because they didn't want to remodel it, but because of the Booster Course Pass that argument is null and void. Two retro Mario Kart courses isn't ideal, but this stage missing Ultimate makes it sting a little less - not to mention it's Rainbow Road.​

Spoiler: Other Mario Spinoffs

• Sparkle Theater (Princess Peach Showtime)

A stage set on a... stage seemed like a really interesting idea, and the game seems to have been successful enough to warrant it. I'm not really sure what the gimmick should be - maybe a pseudo Pokémon Stadium with some of the different levels from the game? I didn't play this one.​

• The Last Resort (Luigi's Mansion 3)

I could have brought back the Luigi's Mansion stage from Brawl, but this game sold crazy well so I think it warrants it's own stage. I'm getting rid of most of the giant stages, so I think this would be a good canidate for a new one - you could also incorporate some of the new ghosts and stuff.​

• Concordia (Mario and Luigi: Brothership)

There's already been a Paper Mario stage, I figured it was time for the other big Mario RPG series to get one. I'm... not entirely sure what the gimmick for this stage is, though. I haven't played Brothership yet and I haven't been keeping up with the trailers all that much. It wouldn't take much to convince me to swap it out for something else, either from an older Mario and Luigi (which I've actually played) or Mario Party. I also briefly considered the Glitz Pit from The Thousand Year Door for this slot, but it would conflict with both the Sparkle Theater stage and whatever I have cooking from Punch-Out​

 

[DarthEnderX]

how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Tropical Freeze stage

Windmill Hills!

Whats your opinion of:
These two designs of Link and Zelda becomming the default for smash 6?

Strongly opposed.

Sorry to be extreme, but if this is the future of the series - keeping status quo with minor adjustments every game - I'm going to eventually lose interest and I'm certain many others will too.

I won't.

Perpetual incremental improvement is always preferable to me over attempting a radical departure that ends up falling on its face.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Perpetual incremental improvement is always preferable to me over attempting a radical departure that ends up falling on its face.

The radical departure of... making new stages? Which every game except Ultimate's base game has done a good number of? Because Louie's comment was related to stages, and I'm not sure how you'd quantify "incremental improvement" for something like that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The radical departure of... making new stages?

Of anything.

If adding 30 new stages means cutting 60, I'm not interested.

No way! I LOVE those retro stages. In fact, those are the ones I play on the most, including the GB Dream Land stage (that stage is fun). I say we should keep those stages all of the time.

The only retro stages I don't like are "Smash 64 stages still look like Smash 64" ones.

Would a Sunset Shore stage be technically possible?

Technically possible. Though not competitively viable.

I still think Casino Night and Flying Battery would be pretty cool, as well as a stage from Frontiers. And maybe the Space Colony ARK.

Rooftop Run!

I’ve entertained the idea of this before. Even though the two prior vertical scrollers get a bad reputation, I think this type of stage would be nice nod to original Ice Climber game, and letting the users have some agency on the scrolling helps make the level more manageable.

The vertical scrolling stages would be fine if they didn't randomly speed up or switch direction.

Hmm there’s an idea: suggest giant stages

Castlevania!

 

[toonito]

We need the definitive snowy fighting game stage

View attachment 396546

add this stage, Zero and Dante to Smash and Smash 6 becomes UMVC3 lol

 

[Noipoi]

I definitely want a lot of new stages. More new than returning would be cool.

I've played Ultimate's stages to death. If the next game's selection is the exact same with only like three or four new ones, despite how much new Nintendo material has released in the last few years, I'll be really letdown.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm okay with returning content. In fact, I desire it more than most.

But c'mon man. It's been ten years since some of these franchises got any new stages. The next Smash game needs to have a lot of new stages. There's really no way around it. Stages being cut sucks, but people are much less particular with their stages. They aren't attached (barring some standout examples), so while the cut of a veteran will always sting, cutting 75m won't.


That said, if Ultimate 2 happened... maybe we could have the best of both worlds. Keep the ones we have and add 50 more! Aren't I realistic?

 

[Super Devon]

So uh, a question if I may:

Is it weird for me to think that Eggman being a playable character in Smash would be a disservice to Eggman and would fit way better for him to be a boss?

I dunno, I don't dislike Eggman, but I just can't get around the idea of him being a fighter, him being in a small mech as a fighter just doesn't sound all that great tbh, I think it would be much better for him to be a boss with either the Death Egg Robot, Egg Dragoon, Egg Viper, or maybe even Egg Emperor.

 

[Noipoi]

So uh, a question if I may:

Is it weird for me to think that Eggman being a playable character in Smash would be a disservice to Eggman and would fit way better for him to be a boss?

I dunno, I don't dislike Eggman, but I just can't get around the idea of him being a fighter, him being in a small mech as a fighter just doesn't sound all that great tbh, I think it would be much better for him to be a boss with either the Death Egg Robot, Egg Dragoon, Egg Viper, or maybe even Egg Emperor.

Shadow as a new fighter
Eggman as a boss
Tails as a new assist trophy
And of course, Radical Highway as a new stage

Sonic representation is saved

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So uh, a question if I may:

Is it weird for me to think that Eggman being a playable character in Smash would be a disservice to Eggman and would fit way better for him to be a boss?

I dunno, I don't dislike Eggman, but I just can't get around the idea of him being a fighter, him being in a small mech as a fighter just doesn't sound all that great tbh, I think it would be much better for him to be a boss with either the Death Egg Robot, Egg Dragoon, Egg Viper, or maybe even Egg Emperor.

I doubt they'd want to, but they could easily do both.

Anyway, the main problem with Dr. Eggman in the Eggmobile is that conseptually, it's just Bowser Jr., but again. Now, what they end up doing with that would be very different due to having very different boss mechanics to work with, but it's hard not to see the overlap. Would it be a disservice to his character though? Not really. He's a fun character, and his Saturday morning cartoon antics would be right at home as a fighter in Smash.

Also if they do add him, he needs "No! I don't believe this!" as a rare death quote.

 

[StormC]

So uh, a question if I may:

Is it weird for me to think that Eggman being a playable character in Smash would be a disservice to Eggman and would fit way better for him to be a boss?

I dunno, I don't dislike Eggman, but I just can't get around the idea of him being a fighter, him being in a small mech as a fighter just doesn't sound all that great tbh, I think it would be much better for him to be a boss with either the Death Egg Robot, Egg Dragoon, Egg Viper, or maybe even Egg Emperor.

Not to be mean but this is just the Ridley argument repackaged

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

So uh, a question if I may:

Is it weird for me to think that Eggman being a playable character in Smash would be a disservice to Eggman and would fit way better for him to be a boss?

I dunno, I don't dislike Eggman, but I just can't get around the idea of him being a fighter, him being in a small mech as a fighter just doesn't sound all that great tbh, I think it would be much better for him to be a boss with either the Death Egg Robot, Egg Dragoon, Egg Viper, or maybe even Egg Emperor.

I mean we got Sephiroth, and he is like THE boss character, they even made a special boss fight for him, and had him fight exclusively bosses in his classic mode as a nod to this. Not to mention he kills the main villain in his reveal trailer. I don’t think Sephiroth was done a disservice, and I don’t think Eggman would either.

Considering Eggman has fought in smaller mechs several times before I don’t see the problem. Also this argument of “better suited as a boss” was made against Ridley, and look how that turned out.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I doubt they'd want to, but they could easily do both.

Anyway, the main problem with Dr. Eggman in the Eggmobile is that conseptually, it's just Bowser Jr., but again. Now, what they end up doing with that would be very different due to having very different boss mechanics to work with, but it's hard not to see the overlap. Would it be a disservice to his character though? Not really. He's a fun character, and his Saturday morning cartoon antics would be right at home as a fighter in Smash.

Also if they do add him, he needs "No! I don't believe this!" as a rare death quote.

Could just put him in the E-Mech from Fighters (because fighting game and where a lot of Sonic's basic attacks came from) or the Eggwalker from Adventure 2 (because his first mainline playable role).

 

[MBRedboy31]

For Eggman, I was imagining that they could combine the capabilities of the Sonic the Fighters mech and the Eggmobile. On the ground it acts like the Sonic the Fighters mech, but when midair its limbs retract and it acts like the Eggmobile.

 

[NintenRob]

Man, I feel like I want too many Mario stages. Like Mario Wonder is great, that'll obviously get a stage. We're due for a new 3D Mario that will likely get a stage. Peach got her own high profile game that I'd like a stage for. Mario & Luigi has never had a stage and Brothership has so many cool locations. Mario Party is very long overdue for a stage and Jamboree is best fully original Mario Party in YEARS. Bowser's Castle obligatory mention.

That's 6 new Mario stages to satisfy me, which obviously won't happen but please it would be so good

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Ever heard of this obscure game called "Skyrim"

heard it has some snow and is good for a stage

Todd Howard speech bubble

 

[Diddy Kong]

Homecoming Hijinx as the token ice stage. I mean come on. Tropical Freeze has been skipped over enough. To make it both a Returns and Tropical Freeze stage there could be a hazard that melts the ice and makes it the regular DKC Returns version of Jungle Hijinx.

Two banana birds, one coconut.

For Mario, Bowser's Castle should take priority over anything else. Even if I love Wonder and Mario & Luigi Brothership I cannot say these games deserve a spot above a LONG OVERDUE Bowser's Castle.

As for Sonic characters, nothing but Knuckles would be interesting to me. A serious case can be made for Tails and Eggman, I know, but I don't care about them and even less for Shadow.

Oh and for the Zelda designs, am quite certain they'll go for the Tears of the Kingdom main cast. That would indeed leave room for another Link but if we're getting any secondary Link am 100% betting on Toon Link.

 

[NintenRob]

I could see some sort of Banana temple stage for Donkey Kong. I'm not sure if that's an actual location in Donkey Kong game (closest is golden temple in returns it seems) but it seems to have become the default aesthetic for Donkey Kong these days

 

[Super Devon]

Not to be mean but this is just the Ridley argument repackaged

So is the Ultimate Deluxe VS Reboot argument, as that's just a repackaged version of "SSB4 port VS new game" prior to Smash Ultimate's announcement
.

Though regardless, I guess I'm just kinda against Eggman being in Smash as a playable character at the moment, as I'd rather have someone else take the spot as the second Sonic rep.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I get the argument that Eggman doesn't feel like Eggman unless he's in a giant mech. But man, a character being a boss would feel like even less of a consolation prize than one being an assist trophy.

Even if I think they're power creeped to heck, I still see assists whenever I play the game casually with friends. I haven't done classic mode nor WoL content since the end of the dlc run (sooner in the latter's case), and thus I don't even think I fully remember the boss lineup in Ultimate. Granted, in most cases I don't think the bosses that aren't Marx-shaped are all that realizable as fighters, but my point is that boss fights in smash just aren't as much as part of the experience as they are in other games. As cool as they were in 2018... They're kinda just footnotes now, even compared to the other footnotes like Mii costumes.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I love the boss fights in Ultimate, I just wish they had a proper boss rush mode, I would fight every boss with every fighter, but that’s not at all realistic right now.

I think Eggman would be a great boss, I would just hope if he were to become one we would at least get one of Sonic’s friends playable.