Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Prankster 16]

I really hope Ultimate's version of classic mode stays, I love that it's like an Arcade mode from other fighting games and the fact that each one is themed for that specific fighter is really cool (even if some of those themes kinda suck, seriously why are helf of them just "fighting dark/shadow versions of characters"). That being said, here are some improvements I'd like to see for the next game.

1. Unique bonus stages: I was so hyped when I saw that race to the finish came back for Ultimate, only to find out it was one stage that happened for every character. I want them to be more varied, so some fighters would get a Board the Platforms, some would get Break the Targets, and some would get Race to the Finish. Preferably, I would want them to all be unique, but if that can't happen then maybe they can do what Brawl did and have a few presets that get used.
2. Mini-Bosses: The multiple boss fights were really cool even though most were just the Hands, but I want to bring in Mini-Bosses as well. Bring back Metal Mario and Giant DK, and maybe have a few new ones (idk what they'd be though).
3. Endings: This one's a little , but having a little cutscene at the end would be cool. Definetly not a CG one or voiced, but maybe like a slideshow with some text.

 

[Louie G.]

It’s an analogy to help you and only you understand my point. You could’ve just said it went over your head and it would’ve just as much as your wall of text.

I don't appreciate you acting this way. It wasn't a hard point to understand, it was just an unfitting comparison - I understand your point and I think it's wrong. I responded to your thoughts earnestly enough at first and you came back with condescending gifs.

You’re making hills to die on out of plateaus to live on buddy, calm down

If you can bring the actual data here for Eggman with the numbers, I’ll commend you. Good luck.

And again, this isn’t a disagreement. I just didn’t ask about all dat. I said “as long”, not “as much”.

All of these attempts at snarky responses are bothering me, I'd rather you didn't try to talk down to me like this or at least back up your case more substantially if you're going to try and do so. It's really hard to keep having this conversation when there's an obvious lack of respect. Like, I know it's a silly video game board, but I'm not here to be laughed at for trying to have a conversation.

Look, if your argument is "some people want different characters more" then I don't know a single person who would disagree with it. That's the most obvious observation about the community possible. You used inflammatory words like selfish and "copium" which gave off the idea this was some act of spite against Eggman and not simple preference. If that isn't what you meant then choose better words next time.

And I'm explaining a generally agreeable point that Eggman support was not as visible until recently. It's true! Maybe it can be disputed exactly where this began, he was getting decent numbers on fan polls prior to FP2, but Eggman was not at the forefront of Sonic character requests until Ultimate. I don't think I need to give hard numbers and data to prove this, at least any more than you do. You said "fair enough" and then fell back on this, asking me to give you hard numbers and direct sources, so I don't really know what to say. I know what my lived experience in the community for 10+ years was so that's that I guess.

 

[AlRex]

I like Eggman more than the other Sonic choices because you don’t get to play as him/other bosses that much relative to other characters, all the gadgets, Badniks, and such leave a lot of room for creativity, he has the merit off of being the main bad guy since the first game, and he’s the least like Sonic out of the options we have. There’s no sensible way Eggman could have a Spin Dash in his moveset unless he summoned Metal Sonic, I guess.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I really hope Ultimate's version of classic mode stays, I love that it's like an Arcade mode from other fighting games and the fact that each one is themed for that specific fighter is really cool

It's fine, but in the event that it stays I'd like a randomizer option too so you're not always fighting the same opponents as the same character.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Speaking as a Sonic fan who'd be fine with any of the mains in Smash, Eggman holds a different appeal vs say Tails or Knuckles. The former strikes me as more interesting moveset wise given the sheer number of different machine weapons he's utilized, but there's an ineffable quality conceptually of controlling the latter two in Smash given how long they've been notable heroes in the series. Just the idea of Sonic and Tails vs Mario and Luigi in a team battle hits in a way that playable Eggman doesn't, even though you could arguably get more potential depth out the latter.

It's a bit like Crash and Spyro where one would have my major hype for their mere existence in SSB while the other more likely has greater gameplay heights they could reach in practical play.

 

[Will]

All of these attempts at snarky responses are bothering me, I'd rather you didn't try to talk down to me like this or at least back up your case more substantially if you're going to try and do so. It's really hard to keep having this conversation when there's an obvious lack of respect. Like, I know it's a silly video game board, but I'm not here to be laughed at for trying to have a conversation.

I’m not laughing at you?

I don't appreciate you acting this way. It wasn't a hard point to understand, it was just an unfitting comparison - I understand your point and I think it's wrong. I responded to your thoughts earnestly enough at first and you came back with condescending gifs.

Louie, no offense mate, you’re reading into it too deep. You always do at my posts.

I’m not trying to demean you. Truthfully, I’m doing everything to steer clear from having any debate on this topic with you because I didn’t ask for you to engage in it to begin with. It was a response to Golden and was intended to stay that way.

Look, if your argument is "some people want different characters more" then I don't know a single person who would disagree with it. That's the most obvious observation about the community possible.

See? It was never meant to be a start to a debate!

You used inflammatory words like selfish and "copium" which gave off the idea this was some act of spite against Eggman and not simple preference. If that isn't what you meant then choose better words next time.

I’m 23 from a background of extensive internet usage, this is the slang of my generation. Emotes and .gif’s have been my calling cards since I began posting ten years ago. They are not the against the rules to say and use, so I’m gonna say and use them.

If you don’t understand, why don’t you ask for context like everyone else does when they need it? If I were genuinely trying to demean you, I’d call you stupid or something derogatory. But I’m not, so it simply isn’t the way you think it is. I tried to tell you this multiple times already.

Can you drop the topic now? Or just hide my posts? Im not going to change for a stranger on the internet unless the mods put a gun to my head and say so.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I don't know about this, most Sonic fans I've spoken to either want Eggman the most or would just be happy to have a new character at all. I don't think there's this kind of selfish infighting among Sonic fans when the desperation for literally anything next game is so high. Preference is splintered but at the heart of it everyone wants the same thing... I can't think of many that would be outright against the doc.

Again, from my perspective, I just don't see Eggman as someone in heavy consideration. I think the road to getting him playable is probably comparable to someone like Ridley in the past, visualized as a boss first and fan demand putting him in stronger competition for a playable role. The other three characters have a leg up on Eggman's Smash popularity having been requested for far longer (circa Brawl), while his support boomed during late stage Ultimate DLC. That paired with Eggman being straddled to a machine most of the time, I think those characters would just jump out more as the next playable candidate.

It doesn't have much to do with my preference - I openly admit Eggman would be the most unique and interesting of the bunch, and I don't feel as strongly about Sonic desperately needing more characters the way some other people do. And frankly I would really, really like an actual mech character in Smash that takes the concept further than Bowser Jr. But I don't think he is the next step for the series, and I'd be pleasantly surprised if I was wrong.

Agree with having a character that goes all out with the concept of having a mech. At the top of my head some characters I think could work for that are Elma from Xenoblade X, Sakura from Sakura Wars, Rean Schwarzer from Trails of cold steel and Porky from Earthbound.

 

[Oracle Link]

Whats your opinion on a deku Tree Stage for Zelda?

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm sorry, but the argument that bosses shouldn't be fighters just doesn't work when we literally have Ridley and Sephiroth.

 

[Will]

Whats your opinion on a deku Tree Stage for Zelda?

Do you have a specific Deku Tree in mind? I assume you mean OOT

 

[ninjahmos]

Should they make air dodging even more like Melee so you can have the ability to wavedash?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Speaking as a Sonic fan who'd be fine with any of the mains in Smash, Eggman holds a different appeal vs say Tails or Knuckles. The former strikes me as more interesting moveset wise given the sheer number of different machine weapons he's utilized, but there's an ineffable quality conceptually of controlling the latter two in Smash given how long they've been notable heroes in the series. Just the idea of Sonic and Tails vs Mario and Luigi in a team battle just hits in a way that playable Eggman doesn't, even though you could arguably get more potential depth out the latter.

It's a bit like Crash and Spyro where one would have my major hype for their mere existence in SSB while the other more likely has greater gameplay heights they could reach in practical play.

I'm curious what your thoughts on Crash and Spyro are, I could see both having strong practical movesets depending on what games they pull some of their moves (or at least their specials; I could see either of them having strong movesets overall) from.

Admittedly though, I'm much more familiar with Spyro's abilities than I am Crash's.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm curious what your thoughts on Crash and Spyro are, I could see both having strong practical movesets depending on what games they pull some of their moves (or at least their specials; I could see either of them having strong movesets overall) from.

Admittedly though, I'm much more familiar with Spyro's abilities than I am Crash's.

My instinct is that between the breath powers, selective glide, and charge attacks, there's a slightly more novel fighter with Spyro if the combination of moves was done right. Crash would play fantastically, but one almost gets the sense he would feel like a somewhat typical platformer character, use of crates aside. He'd fit right naturally via a 64/Melee mentality with move design, whereas Spyro seems like they'd be drawn more from the 4/Ultimate school of having a very distinct nature to him (especially if Sparx was a key part of his core concept).

 

[Laniv]

If Eggman were to be playable, which mech would you prefer he pilot (because let's be honest, he's most likely going to be piloting a machine)?

The Classic Egg Mobile?

Or the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2?

Or would you prefer a different machine?

 

[fogbadge]

If Eggman were to be playable, which mech would you prefer he pilot (because let's be honest, he's most likely going to be piloting a machine)?

The Classic Egg Mobile?

View attachment 396584

Or the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2?

View attachment 396585

Or would you prefer a different machine?

I think I'd prefer the classic egg mobile. though there's nothing wrong with the walker

 

[ninjahmos]

If Eggman were to be playable, which mech would you prefer he pilot (because let's be honest, he's most likely going to be piloting a machine)?

The Classic Egg Mobile?

View attachment 396584

Or the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2?

View attachment 396585

Or would you prefer a different machine?

The Egg Walker would be pretty cool, but I think I'd prefer the classic Egg Mobile.

 

[The Prankster 16]

If the next game has major cuts (30+), how many veterans do you think we'll get as DLC? We got 3 veterans as DLC in 4, making up a little under half the DLC roster. Ultimate had a release schedule of 5 DLC in 2019, 4 in 2020 (though that's probably due to covid), and 3/4 in 2021 (depends on how you count pythra). Assuming that this game gets the usual 2-3 year support cycle that Nintendo games get, how many DLC characters do you think we'd get and how many would be veterans?

 

[Pupp135]

If the next game has major cuts (30+), how many veterans do you think we'll get as DLC? We got 3 veterans as DLC in 4, making up a little under half the DLC roster. Ultimate had a release schedule of 5 DLC in 2019, 4 in 2020 (though that's probably due to covid), and 3/4 in 2021 (depends on how you count pythra). Assuming that this game gets the usual 2-3 year support cycle that Nintendo games get, how many DLC characters do you think we'd get and how many would be veterans?

My current hunch is that roughly a third of the DLC fighters would be veterans (so three or four fighters if we receive 11 or 12 DLC fighters like in Ultimate). Fans don’t like losing their favorite fighters, and DLC is a way to bring someone back, but I think there would still be a push for some new content whether it’s building more relationships with third party companies, highlighting/promoting relatively new games, or adding a fan favorite or two who may have slipped through the cracks.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Even though Universal let them take up space in their amusement park? SMH, this is why we need to abolish copyright laws.

Okay, so at first I was gonna make a joke about how technically they CAN reference King Kong due to him TECHNICALLY being public domain (the novelization of the 1933 film is public domain, and it has notable enough differences from the film), but that led to me going down a bit of a rabbit hole because as it turns out, King Kong has one of the messiest copyright situations out there. Lawsuits, corporate dealings, you name it. FWIW, though, I DID find out that the 1933 film will enter public domain in 2029, so take that as you will.

Though all this public domain talk has got me in a Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. mood, and now I'm sad that game will likely stay forgotten by Nintendo. Still want Henry Fleming in Smash though, as unlikely as that is.

 

[AlRex]

If Eggman were to be playable, which mech would you prefer he pilot (because let's be honest, he's most likely going to be piloting a machine)?

The Classic Egg Mobile?

View attachment 396584

Or the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2?

View attachment 396585

Or would you prefer a different machine?

Eggmobile, though I’d find it funny if he was just running around on foot and it warped around him/appeared as needed.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Nintendo added Splatoon 2 to the music app tonight. Expected because of the announcement trailer, but it does include Octo Expansion stuff, so that's good. Kinda figured it would since Splatoon 3 still has to wait on that Side Order soundtrack release first and this didn't, but hey.

 

[RodNutTakin]

My current hunch is that roughly a third of the DLC fighters would be veterans (so three or four fighters if we receive 11 or 12 DLC fighters like in Ultimate). Fans don’t like losing their favorite fighters, and DLC is a way to bring someone back, but I think there would still be a push for some new content whether it’s building more relationships with third party companies, highlighting/promoting relatively new games, or adding a fan favorite or two who may have slipped through the cracks.

Losing over 30 fighters and only getting less than 5 of them back post-launch sounds like an extremely raw deal no matter how you slice it.
If we're losing this many then I expect the next Smash game to have a much longer DLC cycle to compensate.
In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that this generation's Kart and Smash titles will partially rely on getting steady content additions throughout a large percentage of the system's lifecycle instead of only 2-3 years. Not something like this generation's Mario Sports titles where it felt like they intentionally only shipped 60% of the game's content at launch, mind you.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

1. Endings: This one's a little , but having a little cutscene at the end would be cool. Definetly not a CG one or voiced, but maybe like a slideshow with some text.

MVC3 styled arcade endings with little slideshows of characters interacting outside of fighting would go a long way with the crossover angle.

 

[NintenRob]

Here's my take on Eggman

I'm not opposed to him, he's not my first choice nor do I think he's the most likely Sonic character, but I'm certainly not opposed.

But I do think he's be awkward to picture as playable, or at least Eggman in a mech is. Our only mech character right now is Bowser Jr, who's on the smaller size. Eggman is naturally tall and lanky, while also being round. Putting that in a mech without making him too silly small is gonna create a character who has a very huge hit box, not necessarily in height but girth, and egg mechs tend to be chunkier than the Jr Clown Car. Not impossible, but again, just feels awkward to picture for me.

 

[Kirbeh]

Potentially controversial opinion. Make Eggman like either Iron Man or Tron Bonne.

Give him a Smash original mech suit inspired by the Egg-Robo/Death Egg Robot or something. It can be outfitted with lots of weapons and pull from boss fights from across the series rather than being confined to the Egg Walker (which I don't think works very well for Smash) or the classic Egg Mobile which would potentially suffer issues from scaling (though I still think you can work around it) and the perceived overlap with Jr. (much less of an issue imo, but it's there for the people that do feel that way.)

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Potentially controversial opinion. Make Eggman like either Iron Man or Tron Bonne.

Give him a Smash original mech suit inspired by the Egg-Robo/Death Egg Robot or something. It can be outfitted with lots of weapons and pull from boss fights from across the series rather than being confined to the Egg Walker (which I don't think works very well for Smash) or the classic Egg Mobile which would potentially suffer issues from scaling (though I still think you can work around it) and the perceived overlap with Jr. (much less of an issue imo, but it's there for the people that do feel that way.)

There's an E-Mech from Sonic the Fighters

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Honestly i still think the death egg robot should be a boss character, with voice lines lifted from the Sonic games to sell the idea that Eggman is piloting the mech.

 

[Garteam]

Eggman makes sense in so far as he is the second most established character in the series behind Sonic himself (He's the only other member of Sonic's current cast that debuted in Sonic 1, he appears in just about every entry, he's got a lot of source material, etc.) and he is the most unique secondary character relative to Sonic.

...However, Sonic's friends are absurdly popular and they're basically always pushed. Shadow is the obvious candidate due to having a Renaissance right now, but it's questionable if things were planned out early enough to coordinate with Smash's project plan. Shadow's cameo in Sonic 2 would have been planned in advance, so there's a reasonable chance Sega at least knew Shadow would return in Sonic 3. Shadow could also just make it in on his own merits because he's just that popular and/or Sakurai likes edgy rivals. He was Sonic's first assist trophy for a reason.

There's also Tails, who has a stronger legacy than Shadow but isn't as popular or conventionally cool as him. I could see him maybe being prioritized over Shadow if Sonic 2 influenced the decision or if Sakurai really wanted another Classic character, but Shadow is still more likely IMO.

 

[Kirbeh]

There's an E-Mech from Sonic the Fighters

I always forget about that one. Even more ironic when a chunk of Sonic's Smash move set is from the Sonic the Fighters too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

and what, they couldn’t do the same for eggman?

Why would Boss Eggman and Fighter Eggman share animation? You never fight a giant Eggman in the Sonic games.

I'm sorry, but the argument that bosses shouldn't be fighters just doesn't work when we literally have Ridley and Sephiroth.

What? Neither of those are Bosses in Ultimate.

Should they make air dodging even more like Melee so you can have the ability to wavedash?

God no. They got rid of that hand-destroying bull**** for a reason.

If Eggman were to be playable, which mech would you prefer he pilot

Eggmobile.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Honestly im surprised Shadow and Knuckles got to be assists before Tails, that just feels weird to me

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean I guess so since Tails is basically the Luigi to Sonic’s Mario but also, from the outside looking in, Knuckles and Shadow both seem a lot more popular with the Sonic fandom.

 

[Pupp135]

Eggman isn’t a character that interests me, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was added given that he is a prominent gaming villain, and Eggman‘s moveset could stand out compared to other big three Sonic characters.

If I had to rank Sonic’s big four by chances, I’m leaning towards Shadow > Tails > Eggman > Knuckles at the moment. Shadow is more because of his popularity before Ultimate and his assist trophy than his successful 2024. I think Tails squeaks by over Eggman at the moment as I mostly noticed Eggman’s popularity emerging after Sephiorth, and Tails has the Mii outfit too.

If I was going over personal want, it would be Amy > Knuckles > Tails > Shadow > Eggman.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean I guess so since Tails is basically the Luigi to Sonic’s Mario but also, from the outside looking in, Knuckles and Shadow both seem a lot more popular with the Sonic fandom.

Shadow is, but Knuckles isn't by much. His fandom is just louder than Tails'.

Shadow is on a whole new level though. If we're factoring in who's more popular, no one else should even be discussed. It's him by a long shot.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Completely anecdotal, but I remember Shadow being one of the most modded characters in Brawl from palette swap to model swap to moveset mods.

Along up there were the likes of and I believe .

Shadow just kinda feels like a missing piece there

 

[ninjahmos]

What? Neither of those are Bosses in Ultimate.

I meant characters who were bosses (in Smash or out) before they became playable (or bosses) in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I actually think Shadow is the most likely secondary Sonic character due to his popularity and the fact they could sell him off as a more clonish character compared to Tails, Knuckles and especially Eggman. Am not knowledgeable on Sonic in the slightest, but I do know there's some lore to suggest Sonic and Shadow are actual clones right?

Shadow also shares a model similar enough to Sonic. He would probably need to be a semi clone or something but I could see it as a big factor to choose him over the others.

My choice remains Knuckles however. That's the only actual Sonic character I like and could see working nicely for Smash. The only Sonic game I ever played on GBA I always picked Knuckles so there's bias lol

 

[SPEN18]

If the next game has major cuts (30+), how many veterans do you think we'll get as DLC? We got 3 veterans as DLC in 4, making up a little under half the DLC roster. Ultimate had a release schedule of 5 DLC in 2019, 4 in 2020 (though that's probably due to covid), and 3/4 in 2021 (depends on how you count pythra). Assuming that this game gets the usual 2-3 year support cycle that Nintendo games get, how many DLC characters do you think we'd get and how many would be veterans?

So, as you say, Smash 4's precedent says there would probably be a few vets that come back soon after the launch of the base game. Whether those would be part of a first "pass" together with newcomers, part of their own separate bundle, or standalone only could go either way. The vets released early on in DLC I think would very likely be characters who just missed base, and/or were worked on but not finished in time (esp. given their priority-based "fit in as many as we can" approach to first party veterans). There could also be some third parties who couldn't make base but whose licensing and finances possibly work out better in DLC. If there is a second wave of DLC characters like in Ult, then I could see a couple more vets get added back alongside that.

But, overall, I would not count on getting the majority of cut vets back as DLC, or a blowout of veteran DLC far beyond Smash 4 levels, simply because the DLC kind of needs to be mostly newcomers to drive excitement and maximize profits, esp. when you consider that the characters most likely to be cut are lower-profile ones who probably wouldn't be optimal choices for DLC packs.

So, in short, I think the initial rollout of veteran DLC is likely to be similar in quantity to Smash 4, and then maybe we get another round of that if there is another wave of DLC beyond the initial one. One thing to remember is that the performance of the base game and the Switch 2 itself, and possibly also how much Sakurai and the team are up for, will have a lot of impact on how much DLC we get; so there's a lot of factors we can't know right now which can influence things. It's probably not wise to make a foregone conclusion about how much DLC we'll get.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Whats your opinion on a deku Tree Stage for Zelda?

Good enough as a concept. The Deku Tree indeed has been a major returning tree dude thing in the last few releases. There's also the LEGO set.

Kind of a good general location that doesn't just represent one game. So I'd take it. I think they'll probably go for the BOTW / TOTK version however.

I do think that aside from Bowser's Castle we also really need a new Hyrule Castle sort of stage. They got the idea right bringing the 64 stage back, but it being the only Hyrule Castle despite being THE central point in 90% of Zelda games is a mysterious and interesting choice.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I meant characters who were bosses (in Smash or out) before they became playable (or bosses) in Smash.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Bosses from other games can't be Fighters.