Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Will]

I forget about having a Kirby newcomer.

I feel like Bandana Dee is likely.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I forget about having a Kirby newcomer.

I feel like Bandana Dee is likely.

He should be. Fans been asking adamantly for him two games in a row now. Same with Dixie.

I guess Waluigi has been requested just as long. Maybe longer. But unlike Dixie and Bandana Dee, he has a lot of competition and well, doesn't stick out as much.

I also think Impa is amongst the characters warranting inclusion, but the choice in a Zelda newcomer is less unanimous as DKC and Kirby. Maybe also less genuine as people often seem to support her just cause she's likely, or think of her as Echo material (Dixie too).

Anyway yeah, Dixie, Bandana Dee and Impa. I think they're much needed and would round up the respective rosters of their series very well.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I forget about having a Kirby newcomer.

I feel like Bandana Dee is likely.

I feel like Bandana Dee and Magolor are the most likely candidates. I'd personally prefer Bandana Dee first so we round out the Return to Dream Land quartet plus I think he has a little more going for him from being Kirby's number 2 in a bunch of games since his introduction like Rainbow Curse, Battle Royale, Fighters 2, and Forgotten Land, but I can't deny that getting two of his own full fledged side modes in Return to Dream Land Deluxe definitely pushes a case for Magolor.

Time to pull a Brawl again and get both!

 

[robot067]

Time to pull a Brawl again and get both!

This would truly be the best timeline. Magolor would have such a cool moveset, he'd be smash's first floating character. Melee jigglypuff on steroids . Plus a smash remix of crowned... hrnngh...

For Zelda, I think they'd probably go with one of the sages from TOTK. Sidon is by far the most popular so I imagine he has the highest shot. Riju would be cooler IMO though. Lore-wise TOTK has really been set up as the new OOT with its time travel shenanigans and a new origin story for Ganondorf. I'm honestly expecting them to have the Triforce gang all be in their TOTK forms. You could leave their movesets basically the same - just change Zelda's down b to a Zonai construct instead of the Darknut and rename her specials to be based on the dragons instead of the goddesses. 'Farore's wind' -> 'Farosh's wind' etc.

 

[Louie G.]

I guess Waluigi has been requested just as long. Maybe longer. But unlike Dixie and Bandana Dee, he has a lot of competition and well, doesn't stick out as much.

I don't think most people see it this way. No offense to BWD or Dixie, both of which I'd gladly welcome into the fold, but perhaps the main criticism against them is that they don't quite stand out. That's like the whole campaign against Bandana Dee, as unfair as that is. But I suppose I can't blame an outsider for not thinking much of "hat goomba" or "girl Diddy". They should inform themselves, but I digress.

Waluigi is, somewhat ironically, a pretty demanding presence especially design wise. Sure, he's designed around Luigi, but he looks like a crude, angry drawing of Luigi dressed in a vibrant purple. The four plumbers have pretty incredible and unique designs I think, so nobody is really looking at Waluigi and being like "he's gonna be too much like Luigi". He absolutely stands out in the crowd. So I pretty strongly disagree with the sentiment here.

Unless you meant he doesn't stick out amongst his own competition, while the others are the more obvious steps forward, and I think I'd still kinda disagree. I think the only reason we're talking about Waluigi as seriously as we are right now is because we're at the point where it actually makes sense. And of course this is a result of Mario's cast being far more filled out than that of DKC or Kirby, but as it stands I think Waluigi is one of the most sensible steps forward. To most of the casual audience, it's probably already weird that Wario has been in three games without his companion. He's arguably the only one of the "usual suspect" spinoff cast, members of generic species withstanding, not to be playable in Smash.

But look, I agree that Mario doesn't really "need" anything new. I've just accepted that we're probably going to see like two extra characters, and I'm perfectly fine with it. I'm not upset one way or the other because I know Mario will deliver on really unique and fun kits. And same with Pokemon really, although there's a lot more pressure there to pick the "right" one while anyone semi-prominent in the Marioverse will probably be pretty neat in my book.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

But I suppose I can't blame an outsider for not thinking much of "hat goomba" or "girl Diddy". They should inform themselves, but I digress.

This has really nothing to do with the primary topic at hand, but every time I see the phrase Hat Goomba it's always so funny to me because is that not literally what Goombario from Paper Mario is? But nobody questions him being his own character, so I guess it's also a matter of Bandana Dee not having like his own unique name, since Bandana has dialogue in some games so it can't be that.

Just a funny observation I noticed at 1am about the power of a name, I guess lol

 

[robot067]

But look, I agree that Mario doesn't really "need" anything new. I've just accepted that we're probably going to see like two extra characters, and I'm perfectly fine with it. I'm not upset one way or the other because I know Mario will deliver on really unique and fun kits. And same with Pokemon really, although there's a lot more pressure there to pick the "right" one while anyone semi-prominent in the Marioverse will probably be pretty neat in my book.

Agree with this so hard. Mario and Pokemon don't really need any new characters and I'd rather other series get some love, but they're two of the most iconic series ever. Best to make peace with it lol. I was definitely sour on Incineroar when it first got announced, and for anyone who still feels that way I reccomend looking up Skyjay vs. Riddles from Collision 2023. Incineroar can do some crazy stuff.

Speaking of Pokemon, I wonder if smash would branch out (just a little) and give us one of the starters in their 1st or 2nd evolutions instead of the final forms like usual. I haven't played S/V but I like Quaxly's design a lot. Smash could use a playable duck .

Completely unrelated to any of that how would people feel about ledge hogging and chaingrabs making a return? Matches in competitive ultimate often goes on way too long and I think a lot of that is the fact that it's so easy to make it back to the stage with much of the cast (and basically all of the top tiers). I think it should stay where you can't refresh your invincibilty by re-grabbing the ledge, but a reliable way to stop characters like steve and sonic from making it back would help discourage stalling and running down the clock. Chaingrabs exactly as they were would probably be too punishing, but maybe something in between to allow for more long term tech chases while not making any character larger than mario unviable? Tbh I mostly just want to see Dedede's chaingrab back bc it would be funny.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think most people see it this way. No offense to BWD or Dixie, both of which I'd gladly welcome into the fold, but perhaps the main criticism against them is that they don't quite stand out. That's like the whole campaign against Bandana Dee, as unfair as that is. But I suppose I can't blame an outsider for not thinking much of "hat goomba" or "girl Diddy". They should inform themselves, but I digress.

Waluigi is, somewhat ironically, a pretty demanding presence especially design wise. Sure, he's designed around Luigi, but he looks like a crude, angry drawing of Luigi dressed in a vibrant purple. The four plumbers have pretty incredible and unique designs I think, so nobody is really looking at Waluigi and being like "he's gonna be too much like Luigi". He absolutely stands out in the crowd. So I pretty strongly disagree with the sentiment here.

Unless you meant he doesn't stick out amongst his own competition, while the others are the more obvious steps forward, and I think I'd still kinda disagree. I think the only reason we're talking about Waluigi as seriously as we are right now is because we're at the point where it actually makes sense. And of course this is a result of Mario's cast being far more filled out than that of DKC or Kirby, but as it stands I think Waluigi is one of the most sensible steps forward. To most of the casual audience, it's probably already weird that Wario has been in three games without his companion. He's arguably the only one of the "usual suspect" spinoff cast, members of generic species withstanding, not to be playable in Smash.

But look, I agree that Mario doesn't really "need" anything new. I've just accepted that we're probably going to see like two extra characters, and I'm perfectly fine with it. I'm not upset one way or the other because I know Mario will deliver on really unique and fun kits. And same with Pokemon really, although there's a lot more pressure there to pick the "right" one while anyone semi-prominent in the Marioverse will probably be pretty neat in my book.

Sensible things you're saying here. Might have been underrating Waluigi myself, I do think he's likely this time. Way more likely than ever.

Just don't necessarily think he has something unique to offer compared to say, Geno. Not to say they can't both make it, seems likely they will. He has an unique build maybe, but might as well end up with some similarities to Luigi anyway. I don't think the Mario Sports games offer all that much , but I can be wrong of course.

However yeah he might just make it due to fan demand and there not being all that much left for Mario. I can think of Toad, Captain Toad, Geno, Pauline maybe, but that's about it. Pokémon is way more sensitive I agree. Also has to do with the fact the Pokémon Company has their say in the selection.

However am still of the opinion, regarding Dixie that people write her off too easily. If she would've been Echo material, she'd be one by now. Especially with Chrom being there. If she's just "girl Diddy" they'd make her a Diddy Echo with DK's Up B and call it a day. They didn't.

 

[Noipoi]

Smash could use a playable duck .

We just got Ridley

 

[robot067]

We just got Ridley

I suppose a dragon is just a big bird

 

[ninjahmos]

Here's a couple more songs for potential reveal trailers that'd be pretty cool (though probably unlikely):

Haunted Graveyard for Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins)
Central Highway (Opening Stage) for X and a remix of Zero's X2 theme with elements of his X1 theme for Zero
Raid! for Strider Hiryu
Metro City Slums and Bay Area for Mike Haggar (Final Fight)
Objection! 2001 and Pursuit ~ Cornered for Phoenix Wright
Rules of Nature for Raiden (Metal Gear)
The Pit and Warrior Shrine for Scorpion and Sub-Zero
Don't Cry Jennifer for Clock Tower Stage

 

[DarthEnderX]

I suppose a dragon is just a big bird

Especially the one from Adventure.

 

[fogbadge]

I forget about having a Kirby newcomer.

I feel like Bandana Dee is likely.

you know sakurai is still here

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I don't think most people see it this way. No offense to BWD or Dixie, both of which I'd gladly welcome into the fold, but perhaps the main criticism against them is that they don't quite stand out. That's like the whole campaign against Bandana Dee, as unfair as that is. But I suppose I can't blame an outsider for not thinking much of "hat goomba" or "girl Diddy". They should inform themselves, but I digress.

Waluigi is, somewhat ironically, a pretty demanding presence especially design wise. Sure, he's designed around Luigi, but he looks like a crude, angry drawing of Luigi dressed in a vibrant purple. The four plumbers have pretty incredible and unique designs I think, so nobody is really looking at Waluigi and being like "he's gonna be too much like Luigi". He absolutely stands out in the crowd. So I pretty strongly disagree with the sentiment here.

Unless you meant he doesn't stick out amongst his own competition, while the others are the more obvious steps forward, and I think I'd still kinda disagree. I think the only reason we're talking about Waluigi as seriously as we are right now is because we're at the point where it actually makes sense. And of course this is a result of Mario's cast being far more filled out than that of DKC or Kirby, but as it stands I think Waluigi is one of the most sensible steps forward. To most of the casual audience, it's probably already weird that Wario has been in three games without his companion. He's arguably the only one of the "usual suspect" spinoff cast, members of generic species withstanding, not to be playable in Smash.

But look, I agree that Mario doesn't really "need" anything new. I've just accepted that we're probably going to see like two extra characters, and I'm perfectly fine with it. I'm not upset one way or the other because I know Mario will deliver on really unique and fun kits. And same with Pokemon really, although there's a lot more pressure there to pick the "right" one while anyone semi-prominent in the Marioverse will probably be pretty neat in my book.

On the other hand, what Waluigi lacks compared to Dixie and Bandana Dee is... Well, unique abilities that would make him stand out in the context of Smash.
He's the kind of character you throw in for the sake of it, not because he inherently brings new gameplay ideas with just his own presence.

 

[chinkuru]

You know how characters had songs play during their reveal trailers? What song would play during your most wanted reveal trailer? We Love Burning Town for Shantae for me.

-Tingle - Suca-Gona-Workinout
-Takamaru - The Mysterious Murasame Castle (Medley)
-Isaac - Isaac battle theme
-Agumon - Bolero of Ravel
-Marco Rossi - Metal Slug main theme
-Phoenix Wright - Pressing Pursuit

 

[Gorgonzales]

You know how characters had songs play during their reveal trailers? What song would play during your most wanted reveal trailer? We Love Burning Town for Shantae for me.

A brand new remix of the DK Rap for Cranky Kong or Lanky Kong.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Everyone likes the idea of Assist Trophies being promoted to full fledged fighters. But with a new game, and possibility of cuts…

Is it out of the question for characters to be demoted to being assist trophies?

 

[osby]

Everyone likes the idea of Assist Trophies being promoted to full fledged fighters. But with a new game, and possibility of cuts…

Is it out of the question for characters to be demoted to being assist trophies?

I think so, yeah.

In Smash 4, between Assist Trophies already being a thing and the devs expecting cuts, they never took down that route.

Now that DLC is an established part of Smash - well, I don't think they'll "save" anyone for DLC but if a popular character won't make it to the base roster, they can always add it later. At least, the possibility exists. So between the two options, making an AT out of them seems like more work for not a great reason.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Everyone likes the idea of Assist Trophies being promoted to full fledged fighters. But with a new game, and possibility of cuts…

Is it out of the question for characters to be demoted to being assist trophies?

The way the broader Smash community is, demoting a character from playable to assist sounds like a recipe for the most obnoxious people ever to come out of the woodworks and clown on people who wanted their character back, not to mention the reveal would be severely disappointing to the people who mained said character.

It's bad enough with Assist Trophy and Mii Costume deconfirmations where people treat them like a slap in the face instead of a nod toward the character. I shudder to imagine the fallout resulting from a scenario where a character is downgraded to assist trophy. It'd honestly better for them to be a minor collectible like a normal trophy or sticker or even not be in the game at all.

 

[Shinuto]

Everyone likes the idea of Assist Trophies being promoted to full fledged fighters. But with a new game, and possibility of cuts…

Is it out of the question for characters to be demoted to being assist trophies?

That's heresy, don't ever bring that up unless you want solitary confinement

 

[Gengar84]

I think I’m alone in this opinion but if I had to choose between a clone or semiclone being cut entirely from the game or demoted to a costume for their base character, I’d gladly take the costume. You’d lose a lot of that originality but at least you’d get to play as the character in some way. I’d rather the unique fighters be brought back as an Assist Trophy rather than cut entirely as well. I’m still hoping for as few cuts as possible though and I’d love Everyone is Here 2 if they can make it happen but I realize that’s not particularly likely.

 

[Laniv]

The way the broader Smash community is, demoting a character from playable to assist sounds like a recipe for the most obnoxious people ever to come out of the woodworks and clown on people who wanted their character back, not to mention the reveal would be severely disappointing to the people who mained said character.

It's bad enough with Assist Trophy and Mii Costume deconfirmations where people treat them like a slap in the face instead of a nod toward the character. I shudder to imagine the fallout resulting from a scenario where a character is downgraded to assist trophy. It'd honestly better for them to be a minor collectible like a normal trophy or sticker or even not be in the game at all.

As an addition, the prospect of someone like Ridley or King K. Rool being demoted to Assist Trophy is enough to tell me that it's a bad idea

 

[Gengar84]

As an addition, the prospect of someone like Ridley or King K. Rool being demoted to Assist Trophy is enough to tell me that it's a bad idea

I definitely wouldn’t be happy about it since both were among my most wanted first party characters and I even voted for K. Rool on the ballot. I still think I’d rather have that than them being cut from the game altogether. Both outcomes would suck but at least they’d still be there in some way as Assist Trophies.

 

[fogbadge]

Everyone likes the idea of Assist Trophies being promoted to full fledged fighters. But with a new game, and possibility of cuts…

Is it out of the question for characters to be demoted to being assist trophies?

we’d never hear the end of it “why’d you do this to my precious waifus” or “why’d you do this to my psychotic genetic psychic”

 

[CommanderZaktan]

-Tingle - Suca-Gona-Workinout
-Takamaru - The Mysterious Murasame Castle (Medley)
-Isaac - Isaac battle theme
-Agumon - Bolero of Ravel
-Marco Rossi - Metal Slug main theme
-Phoenix Wright - Pressing Pursuit

Instead of Pressing Pursuit from the first game, I think Pursuit ~ Caught Special Blend Mix would work.

 

[Gengar84]

You know how characters had songs play during their reveal trailers? What song would play during your most wanted reveal trailer? We Love Burning Town for Shantae for me.

Here’s just a few for some of my most wanted

Magus Magus Battle Theme
Zegram Brave Heart
Battletoads Khaos Mountains
Sub-Zero Techno Syndrome
Lu Bu Theme of Lu Bu
Zero Zero’s Theme
Fulgore The Instinct

 

[SPEN18]

Everyone likes the idea of Assist Trophies being promoted to full fledged fighters. But with a new game, and possibility of cuts…

Is it out of the question for characters to be demoted to being assist trophies?

iirc I brought this up a long time ago and it was not popular.
Though personally I'd be in favor of it. It'd be a good way to still give some recognition to cut characters who don't make it.
And personally I don't have a need to see bandaids ripped off early, and don't mind waiting til the final game to know the full roster, but this would also be one way to accomplish that.

 

[Gengar84]

I think I brought this up at some point before but I think it would be really cool to get some independent fan musical artists to make some remixes for the next game. I really like a lot of artists like GaMetal, LittleVMills, FamilyJules, RichaadEB, and others I see on YouTube and it would be cool to hear some of their content in Smash. A couple of these have actually helped with the music in actual games which is cool to see. I’m not entirely sure the specifics of bringing in fans to make remixes for Smash in regards to licensing but I think it could be fun.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think I brought this up at some point before but I think it would be really cool to get some independent fan musical artists to make some remixes for the next game. I really like a lot of artists like GaMetal, LittleVMills, FamilyJules, RichaadEB, and others I see on YouTube and it would be cool to hear some of their content in Smash. A couple of these have actually helped with the music in actual games which is cool to see. I’m not entirely sure the specifics of bringing in fans to make remixes for Smash in regards to licensing but I think it could be fun.

I love LittleVMills and GaMetal, and I would love to see them do remixes for Smash if they could!

 

[Kirbeh]

I think I brought this up at some point before but I think it would be really cool to get some independent fan musical artists to make some remixes for the next game. I really like a lot of artists like GaMetal, LittleVMills, FamilyJules, RichaadEB, and others I see on YouTube and it would be cool to hear some of their content in Smash. A couple of these have actually helped with the music in actual games which is cool to see. I’m not entirely sure the specifics of bringing in fans to make remixes for Smash in regards to licensing but I think it could be fun.

I'd love for this to happen but I'm unsure about how likely a scenario like this would actually be. They've got no shortage of Japanese composers to work with and are likely to stick to them due to the language barrier.

That said, Cadence of Hyrule exists and everyone who contributed music is a Western artist including Jules who you've already mentioned. It's a long shot but not entirely off the table I suppose.

What'd be really crazy (and not likely in the slightest) is if they got some of the people who contribute/d to OC Remix onboard. There are a lot great existing remixes there in addition to the more prolific fan cover artists. Can you imagine if songs from the old Harmony of Heroes fan album actually got into Smash one day?

On the subject of artists and composers, there are indie artists and bands on the JP/eastern side like Mili who I'd love to see contribute some music too.

 

[Louie G.]

As an addition, the prospect of someone like Ridley or King K. Rool being demoted to Assist Trophy is enough to tell me that it's a bad idea

Ridley being demoted back to a nonplayable role would be particularly and hilariously backwards, lol. Like yeah you guys fought for him to make the jump from a boss role and that’s all well and good, but we’re just gonna go and put him back.

His journey involving so much palpable Smash history is kinda why I never see him going anywhere, anyway. The way he was seen as significant enough to be a major part of the series for years and simply needed the extra push to be playable intertwines his fate with the evolution of Smash in general.

But as far as AT demotions are concerned, I’m generally not in favor of it but I guess it depends who it is and what the situation entails. If it’s someone who is already pitifully low priority or they are simply not interested in bringing back veterans as DLC, I’d understand it a little more. Otherwise I can’t deny I’d be a little insulted to see my favs bumped out and presumably discredited from making an appearance later.

 

[Kirbeh]

On the subject of fighters and assist trophies, I do actually want for some fighers to be assists. Not as a demotion mind you but for a different version of the character to be an assist in addition to the fighter already being there.

I think it'd be fun for say, an 8-bit Mario to run and jump around the stage, trying to land on players, but he dies in two hits (starting being and powering down into small Mario.) Or maybe Zelda II Link who can actually block attacks and alternates between standing and crouching stabs.

And to briefly go back to music, I know mobile games aren't viewed super favorably but I'd love for some mobile titles to get representation in Smash if only for the music. Games like Punishing Gray Raven and Nikke have amazing soundtracks that I wish more people would here if they weren't tied to titles a lot of people wouldn't normally give the time of day.

Either that or contract the composers for a few tracks, I'd love to see what an artist like Cosmograph could cook up for a Smash remix.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Everyone likes the idea of Assist Trophies being promoted to full fledged fighters. But with a new game, and possibility of cuts…

Is it out of the question for characters to be demoted to being assist trophies?

It FEELS like that would be more insulting to fans than it should. So they probably won't do it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Funny, since the idea of Alear absorbing some of most of the Fire Emblem cast into their move set is almost a semi popular idea.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I still want Sephiroth to be a boss, not because "oh well it would be nice if he was still in the game" but just because it would be cool.

 

[Gengar84]

I still want Sephiroth to be a boss, not because "oh well it would be nice if he was still in the game" but just because it would be cool.

If we get that, I think either Bizarro Sephiroth or Safer Sephiroth would be really cool boss forms. I still want his base form as playable but those would be fun boss options.

 

[Louie G.]

Funny, since the idea of Alear absorbing some of most of the Fire Emblem cast into their move set is almost a semi popular idea.

I think when this was brought up the other day most people were pretty vocally against it. I know I am, at least - I think it’s a terrible idea that only gets play because it’s Fire Emblem. People believe this would solve the clutter problem by just slapping those movesets onto another character. Instead, that just makes a really poorly designed and unfocused character that hogs extra development time from other fighters.

I ask people to imagine how they would feel in the AU scenario where Toad was playable, and then in a future game became Peach’s Neutral B.

 

[ninjahmos]

Here's a couple more songs for potential reveal trailers that'd be pretty cool (though probably unlikely):

Haunted Graveyard for Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins)
Central Highway (Opening Stage) for X and a remix of Zero's X2 theme with elements of his X1 theme for Zero
Raid! for Strider Hiryu
Metro City Slums and Bay Area for Mike Haggar (Final Fight)
Objection! 2001 and Pursuit ~ Cornered for Phoenix Wright
Rules of Nature for Raiden (Metal Gear)
The Pit and Warrior Shrine for Scorpion and Sub-Zero
Don't Cry Jennifer for Clock Tower Stage

Just a few more:

Investigation (The Missing Heir) and Investigation (The Girl Who Stands Behind) for Ayumi Tachibana
Chrono Trigger (Main Theme) for Crono
Battle Theme for Tidus (Final Fantasy X)
Fatalize for Lloyd Irving
Bomberman Theme for Bomberman
Arle's Theme and Final of Puyo Puyo for Arle Nadja
N.M.H. for Travis Touchdown

 

[Gengar84]

I’m not opposed to the idea of Alear summoning other Fire Emblem characters that have never been playable in Smash. I’ve never played Engage but I think it would be simple enough to summon a character to do a quick attack animation and disappear. Thats basically the same idea as some people had for Crono with his dual tech inspired moveset or Yuna with her Aeons. I can see why demoting already playable characters to that could be upsetting though. It would be like if Toad had been playable for several games and then was demoted to part of Peach’s moveset afterwards like he is now.

 

[Guynamednelson]

People believe this would solve the clutter problem by just slapping those movesets onto another character. Instead, that just makes a really poorly designed an unfocused character that hogs extra development time from other fighters.

And if we make Alear Emblemon Trainer...we're still going to have several playable characters from FE anyway. It just won't look like that on the character select screen.