Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Speaking of echoes all this Bowser's Castle stage talk reminded me of how much I want Dry Bowser as an echo. I know people scoff at character variants but he's just so cool. Imagine an entrance animation where his bones slowly reassemble like a Dry Bones or a taunt where he mimicks Bowser's roar but his head falls off in the process and he has to screw it back on. He's such a goldmine when it comes to animation changes, sorta like Dark Samus.

I've wanted Dry Bowser as an alt for a while, mostly because I really dislike the Bowser color in Ultimate that's just a lighter Bowser with pink hair like they turned his saturation/hue up like 15%.

I dunno if I'd necessarily want him as an Echo, but I suppose it's not impossible since plenty of other games treat Bowser and Dry Bowser as separate entities.

 

[Arcanir]

If both Gen 9 box legendaries were to get in, do you think it’d be a Simon/Richter situation, where one character echoes the other?

Probably not, they have a number of features that are not shared between each other (ex. Their legs, Koraidon could have kicks but Miraidon could not) and play very differently as one's physical and the other special, so it wouldn't be feasible to Echo each other. Semi-clones would be the closest they could do and even that is pushing it.

 

[Borskaboska]

I like tinkaton, but I think their moveset would overlap too much with Dedede. I hope they dont add meoscarada, just because I think they are pretty ugly (honestly, I think most pokemon from the past few gens have looked kinda bad). Ogerpon is cute, and has a lot with the masks and vine club so if we had to pick a SV pokemon I'd go with her. Other options I think they could consider:

-Flutter Mane (Seems to be a fan and developer favorite)
-Scream Tail (Could probably reuse assets/animations from jigglypuff)
-Espathra (I think it has a really sick design, ok? Espathra is like my favorite from SV)
-Toedscrool (It is time to have a spore setter in smash bros. It is our karmic debt we must pay as smash bros fans.)
-Ceruledge / Armorogue (Ceruledge seems to be the most popular, but its another case of having to pick favorites among a pair. Personally I think picking the most human pokemon design is the cowards way out)
-Goldhengo (Pokemon #1000 seems important enough to hype up but god is this guy UGLY)

However if you've ever read my posts in this thread, you'd know that actually all new pokemon are bad and the only one actually deserving to get in is the GOAT Serperior.

Speaking of echoes all this Bowser's Castle stage talk reminded me of how much I want Dry Bowser as an echo. I know people scoff at character variants but he's just so cool. Imagine an entrance animation where his bones slowly reassemble like a Dry Bones or a taunt where he mimicks Bowser's roar but his head falls off in the process and he has to screw it back on. He's such a goldmine when it comes to animation changes, sorta like Dark Samus.

Also, the Mario Wonder stage conversation reminded me. Some of the most memorable Wonders in that game involve the level being flooded with water or poles appearing. Should Smash introduce underwater swimming mechanics and/or pole climbing? It'd allow for more unique and varied stages.

I adore Dry Bowser, all they'd have to do is make his fire blue and I'd be happy.
The pole thing is kinda like ladders, but I recall them kind of de-emphasizing that. I get the impression they don't really want to add more alternative movement types like climbing or swimming.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think their moveset would overlap too much with Dedede.

Not really? I mean I doubt it'd be a multi-jumper

That would just make it easier for them to enact Total Corviknight Death

 

[Gorgonzales]

Also, the Mario Wonder stage conversation reminded me. Some of the most memorable Wonders in that game involve the level being flooded with water or poles appearing. Should Smash introduce underwater swimming mechanics and/or pole climbing? It'd allow for more unique and varied stages.

Pole climbing wouldn't hurt. For underwater though, it depends on how they approach it. I definitely thought about how underwater stages would work in Smash, and I think giving everyone animations for idling underwater, "walking" underwater (along the ground), and swimming omni-directionally (while allowing them to more or less use their entire base kit underwater) would be a good solution. It's a lot of work, but not as much work as giving everyone underwater-specific moves would be.

As a small aesthetic thing, Charizard and Incineroar would probably have bubbles encasing their tail and belt respectively, and for a less aesthietic thing, Olimar would only be able to pluck Blues. As for Inkling... I dunno what to say, they'd be totally out of luck underwater lol. They'd probably ignore it in this case like how they're just fine when entering water segments in MK8DX.

A brilliant thing I am thinking of just now is Sonic needing to attack his opponents to refresh an air meter that only he has. Granted if you're playing this stage to begin with, you're probably not too concerned about a Sonic player camping you out to the timer, but I think it'd be hilarious to force him to engage with the battle in this specific instance.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only thing I care about for Pokemon in Smash is Type coverage. If you ain't bringing me new Types, I don't want ya.

Give me Garchomp. Give me Kleavor. Give me Gengar.

 

[Noipoi]

I’d like to get a dragon type in Smash someday

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pole climbing wouldn't hurt. For underwater though, it depends on how they approach it. I definitely thought about how underwater stages would work in Smash, and I think giving everyone animations for idling underwater, "walking" underwater (along the ground), and swimming omni-directionally (while allowing them to more or less use their entire base kit underwater) would be a good solution. It's a lot of work, but not as much work as giving everyone underwater-specific moves would be.

As a small aesthetic thing, Charizard and Incineroar would probably have bubbles encasing their tail and belt respectively, and for a less aesthietic thing, Olimar would only be able to pluck Blues. As for Inkling... I dunno what to say, they'd be totally out of luck underwater lol. They'd probably ignore it in this case like how they're just fine when entering water segments in MK8DX.

A brilliant thing I am thinking of just now is Sonic needing to attack his opponents to refresh an air meter that only he has. Granted if you're playing this stage to begin with, you're probably not too concerned about a Sonic player camping you out to the timer, but I think it'd be hilarious to force him to engage with the battle in this specific instance.

It think the best way to handle it would be to have the entire stage underwater just so it doesn't get confusing on which water mechanics you're getting.

As for how it'd actually work, I'd make the physics a bit floatier across the board like in SSF2's Steel Diver stage (though maybe not quite as floaty as it is there), and potentially allow everyone infinite double jumps with new swimming animations.

For the non-swimmers, the air bubble idea is pretty good, and I'd extend it to Olimar's non-blue Pikmin. Inkling and Sonic should wear life jackets like in Mario & Sonic at the Olympics.


Now the real question is: What would be good as an underwater stage?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Now the real question is: What would be good as an underwater stage?

Well, I just so happen to have this aquatic platformer series that's already been present in every Smash game so far...

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

To move away from this...

It's been a while since we got a Legendary Pokemon as a playable character. Most of the main boxart legendaries weren't feasible as playable characters. They have strange body types or are massive.

Both with Scarlett and Violet, we have Koraidon and Miraidon. They're humanoid. They're about the size of Bowser. They're feasible.

Instead of a starter like Meowscarada, what if we got Koraidon or Miraidon? How would you feel if we got one of them? Do you think they're possible?

Miraidon is bigger then Reshiram and Zekrom and is the same size as Groudon, though that might be more length rather then height. I actually think to some extent Groudon might've been feasible and just shrunk down a bit similarly to Ridley. Groudon is 11 feet tall or 3.5 meters, which is pretty comparable to Bowser in Super Mario 64.

I do agree that Ogerpon would be the best choice for a Gen 9 legendary though.

 

[Noipoi]

Well, I just so happen to have this aquatic platformer series that's already been present in every Smash game so far...

Of course

Seaman

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Miraidon is bigger then Reshiram and Zekrom and is the same size as Groudon, though that might be more length rather then height. I actually think to some extent Groudon might've been feasible and just shrunk down a bit similarly to Ridley. Groudon is 11 feet tall or 3.5 meters, which is pretty comparable to Bowser in Super Mario 64.

I do agree that Ogerpon would be the best choice for a Gen 9 legendary though.

OK I know Pokémon sizing is whack, but how the heck is Miraidon 11' 6''? Even nose to tail that's way larger than your typical horse, which is how the Pokémon seems to be sized in Pokémon Scarlet/Violet (unless your mount is supposed to be smaller than the one you battle). Koraidon is a much more reasonable 8' 6'', but now we have the problem of them being 3 feet apart in terms of size even though they're commonly shown as being the same size.

I am Confucious. Gamefreak explain!

 

[Noipoi]

OK I know Pokémon sizing is whack, but how the heck is Miraidon 11' 6''? Even nose to tail that's way larger than your typical horse, which is how the Pokémon seems to be sized in Pokémon Scarlet/Violet (unless your mount is supposed to be smaller than the one you battle). Koraidon is a much more reasonable 8' 6'', but now we have the problem of them being 3 feet apart in terms of size even though they're commonly shown as being the same size.

I am Confucious. Gamefreak explain!

Pokémon with more serpentine bodies are measured head to tail. Thats why dumpy little Dunsparce is still classified as five feet.

 

[Guynamednelson]

OK I know Pokémon sizing is whack, but how the heck is Miraidon 11' 6''? Even nose to tail that's way larger than your typical horse, which is how the Pokémon seems to be sized in Pokémon Scarlet/Violet (unless your mount is supposed to be smaller than the one you battle). Koraidon is a much more reasonable 8' 6'', but now we have the problem of them being 3 feet apart in terms of size even though they're commonly shown as being the same size.

I am Confucious. Gamefreak explain!

Pokemon heights are arbitrarily measured by whatever Game Freak feels like measuring them. Sometimes it's head-to-toe, nose-to-tail, shoulder height, or...the lowest pixel on their sprites/art to the highest one.

And I think having its tail float underneath its body like that...causes Miraidon to be 3 feet longer/taller/whatever.

 

[Speed Weed]

Of course

Seaman

If they made a Seaman platformer I would buy that **** frame 1

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pokémon with more serpentine bodies are measured head to tail. Thats why dumpy little Dunsparce is still classified as five feet.

Pokemon heights are arbitrarily measured by whatever Game Freak feels like measuring them. Sometimes it's head-to-toe, nose-to-tail, shoulder height, or...the lowest pixel on their sprites/art to the highest one.

And I think having its tail float underneath its body like that...causes Miraidon to be 3 feet longer/taller/whatever.

I had figured that they were measured from nose to tail, but even then 11' 6'' seemed both unreasonable and inconsistent. However, Miraidon's tail being a few feet longer makes a lot more sense than it being physically larger. That's probably what's going on here.

That does mean that Miraidon isn't quite comparable to Groudon in terms of height, though in Smash it'd still have quite a big hitbox.

 

[Opossum]

-Goldhengo (Pokemon #1000 seems important enough to hype up but god is this guy UGLY)

How dare you, Gholdengo is a friend to all. A silly little golden buddy.

I had figured that they were measured from nose to tail, but even then 11' 6'' seemed both unreasonable and inconsistent. However, Miraidon's tail being a few feet longer makes a lot more sense than it being physically larger. That's probably what's going on here.

That does mean that Miraidon isn't quite comparable to Groudon in terms of height, though in Smash it'd still have quite a big hitbox.

It's not unreasonable at all. In fact, that's actually the exact same length as Arbok. So Miraidon is similarly scaled to other serpentine Pokémon.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Lol I totally forgot about Mario Wonder.
Wonder Seeds are an obvious gimmick for its stage, but Smash stages are so chaotic already that I don't think it would stand out all that much.

Speaking of recent games, there's also Metroid Dread but its stage would 100% sure feature the EMMI and an invincible monster that chases you and one-shots you doesn't sound all that fun...

 

[Noipoi]

If we get a Mario Wonder stage, I want the Talking Flowers to have a funny comment for every fighter. Palutena’s Guidance style.

 

[Sucumbio]

Phew 1500 pages...

...is what one of the flowers should say.

 

[Noipoi]

Phew 1500 pages...

...is what one of the flowers should say.

“I wonder what the Next Smash Speculation & Discussion Thread tastes like…”

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's not unreasonable at all. In fact, that's actually the exact same length as Arbok. So Miraidon is similarly scaled to other serpentine Pokémon.

It is (kind of) if you're going by horse metrics, which is what seems the most logical at a glance given that they're used as mounts. Going by those metrics, Koraidon is about the size of a typical horse, but Miraidon would be around the size of a draft horse*, which doesn't seem to be how it's depicted.

As far as the comparison to the snakes is concerned, it's kind of a bad one since snakes aren't quadrupedal so how big they are functionally isn't quite the same: An 11' tall quadruped is massive, and an 11' long one is also quite big, but an 11' long snake is much more manageable since they can coil up, and some of their length is angled upward to give the creature some height as well.

*this is a guesstimate since I couldn't find a draft horse measurement lengthwise.



Side note: The fact that some of the bigger snakes are longer than a horse is tall is very weird to think about.

EDIT: And the size visualization that I've landed on is that Koraidon and Miraidon are actually a bit smaller than horses, but have long lizard tails that are important when actually measuring their size. Kind of like wing span for birds.

 

[Arcanir]

Speaking of recent games, there's also Metroid Dread but its stage would 100% sure feature the EMMI and an invincible monster that chases you and one-shots you doesn't sound all that fun...

It'd likely be restricted in some way. The Ultimate Chimera for instance only shows up and roams a specific area of New Pork City, which allowed it to be easily avoidable. If the EMMI had a similar OHKO mechanic, it'd likely be restricted in its movements or in some other fashion so that it's not too dominating.

That said, that's assuming they use the EMMI as a stage hazard in the first place. Ultimate severely toned down Stage Hazards when compared to its predecessors and there's a fair chance its successor would do the same, for all we know the EMMI may just be a cameo similar to Dracula's Castle's Monsters.

 

[Borskaboska]

How dare you, Gholdengo is a friend to all. A silly little golden buddy.

This your guy?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This your guy?

View attachment 393063

Yes, in fact. Who are you to deny the beautiful marriage of the Frigo CheeseHead and CinnaMon from Apple Jacks and their well-off child who majored in business?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Their bodies are too different, they can't be echoes of each other at all.

Speaking of echoes all this Bowser's Castle stage talk reminded me of how much I want Dry Bowser as an echo. I know people scoff at character variants but he's just so cool. Imagine an entrance animation where his bones slowly reassemble like a Dry Bones or a taunt where he mimicks Bowser's roar but his head falls off in the process and he has to screw it back on. He's such a goldmine when it comes to animation changes, sorta like Dark Samus.

Also, the Mario Wonder stage conversation reminded me. Some of the most memorable Wonders in that game involve the level being flooded with water or poles appearing. Should Smash introduce underwater swimming mechanics and/or pole climbing? It'd allow for more unique and varied stages.

Could really get behind this yeah. In general, all the alternative costumes cool as this are good with me. Might not need to be an Echo Fighter even, alternative costume is fine too. But yeah, cool as **** so am for.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It'd likely be restricted in some way. The Ultimate Chimera for instance only shows up and roams a specific area of New Pork City, which allowed it to be easily avoidable. If the EMMI had a similar OHKO mechanic, it'd likely be restricted in its movements or in some other fashion so that it's not too dominating.

That said, that's assuming they use the EMMI as a stage hazard in the first place. Ultimate severely toned down Stage Hazards when compared to its predecessors and there's a fair chance its successor would do the same, for all we know the EMMI may just be a cameo similar to Dracula's Castle's Monsters.

I could see the lesser prominence of stage hazards in most of the new stages being a response to how many SSB4 stages that are disliked, due to said hazards or kooky layouts, but they haven't shied away from them entirely. Mementos is pretty bonkers, Minecraft World can be very intrusive until you break all the blocks, and Spring Stadium's hazards are pretty prominent as well.

As far as E.M.M.I. goes, I think they could implement them just fine with a combination of one or more of these factors:

• Large stage size
• E.M.M.I. doesn't K.O. unless the attack puts you at or over 100%
• E.M.M.I. has to tackle you before it can instakill you, and the tackle animation gives the attack a lot of start lag

I do wonder if they'd recreate the feeling of the chase dynamic that the E.M.M.I.s created. It seems like the design philosophy is that the stage can't make the fighters seem like they're in actual danger of dying, which would explain why Dracula's Castle only has cameos due to its "spooky" gothic aesthetic.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm thinking about changing my sig to include some of my most wanted. I think I finally have enough characters to do that.

But... I'm not good at making sigs lmao.

 

[Borskaboska]

Yes, in fact. Who are you to deny the beautiful marriage of the Frigo CheeseHead and CinnaMon from Apple Jacks and their well-off child who majored in business?

Look, I can get over him being the cheesehead guy. But a business major is where I draw the line!

 

[fogbadge]

This your guy?

View attachment 393063

the one we have in the uk looks weirder

 

[Gengar84]

Their bodies are too different, they can't be echoes of each other at all.

Speaking of echoes all this Bowser's Castle stage talk reminded me of how much I want Dry Bowser as an echo. I know people scoff at character variants but he's just so cool. Imagine an entrance animation where his bones slowly reassemble like a Dry Bones or a taunt where he mimicks Bowser's roar but his head falls off in the process and he has to screw it back on. He's such a goldmine when it comes to animation changes, sorta like Dark Samus.

Also, the Mario Wonder stage conversation reminded me. Some of the most memorable Wonders in that game involve the level being flooded with water or poles appearing. Should Smash introduce underwater swimming mechanics and/or pole climbing? It'd allow for more unique and varied stages.

That would be really interesting. I’ve always thought an underwater stage would be really cool but I was never really sure the best way to do it. The best solution I could think of is a mechanic similar to the wind sections of the Pokémon Stadium stage. If they could actually make a completely original mechanic, that would be even better.

I love the idea of a Dry Bowser echo as well. He’s always had such a cool design. Personally, I’d bring back Bowser’s Melee moveset (with buffs to keep him balanced) and give that to Dry Bowser. The more feral Bowser moveset from back then really fits Dry Bowser in my opinion.

 

[Will]

Dry Bowser is cool, but what stops him from just being a good alternate costume?

 

[Gengar84]

Dry Bowser is cool, but what stops him from just being a good alternate costume?

Nothing really. I just want the old Bowser moveset back and Dry Bowser is a cool way to do that. He’s also got blue flames but I think that’s easily something that could be done with an alt.

 

[Perkilator]

Dry Bowser is cool, but what stops him from just being a good alternate costume?

I guess you can give him Bowser's Brawl/Melee moveset, on top of making him lighter than regular Bowser.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Honestly I really want a stage from Sonic Frontiers. I know it could be another grassy stage but it's so different from Green Hill Zone and Windy Hill Zone that I think it could work.

My pick for a Frontiers stage would be Chaos Island. I live for them dark rocky islands. But yeah you're right they'll probably just go with Kronos and leave it at that. Unfortunatley.

The pole thing is kinda like ladders, but I recall them kind of de-emphasizing that. I get the impression they don't really want to add more alternative movement types like climbing or swimming.

Didn't Ultimate add the ability to attack on ladders? I feel like that's the opposite of demphasizing it.

 

[Louie G.]

Dry Bowser is cool, but what stops him from just being a good alternate costume?

It just depends how far they’d want to go with it. He’s ripe for a lot of fun animation quirks so if they went the extra mile on that it might be worth making Dry Bowser his own thing. If not then a costume is perfectly fine, but you’d just be missing out on the more creative implementation.

So the answer is nothing, it just comes down to the vision.

 

[Gengar84]

Has anyone here played the indie game Sea of Stars? I downloaded the demo the other day and I’m having fun with it so far. It’s an RPG that seemingly takes a lot of inspiration from both Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG. The sprite work is really impressive and charming and the animations are great. I’ve only played about 40 minutes so far but I’m considering buying the full game once it goes on sale.

I don’t usually play a lot of indie games so I never really talk about them in the context of Smash but I’m more than open to the idea. I’m curious if we’ll see more indie content in the next game. Even something like a stage could be fun if we don’t get a playable character.

 

[Jave]

Congrats on 1500 pages! Hopefully this thread doesn’t go too long (implying for hoping the next Smash gets announced soon).

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Congrats on 1500 pages! Hopefully this thread doesn’t go too long (implying for hoping the next Smash gets announced soon).

Funny, because we've also reached 60,000 posts!

 

[Shinuto]

You know how characters had songs play during their reveal trailers? What song would play during your most wanted reveal trailer? We Love Burning Town for Shantae for me.