Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
It appears that you are using ad block :'(
Hey, we get it. However this website is run by and for the community... and it needs ads in order to keep running.
Please disable your adblock on Smashboards, or go premium to hide all advertisements and this notice. Alternatively, this ad may have just failed to load. Woops!
I feel like there's a slight flaw in this line of thinking. I don't think Smash Ultimate considers "Classic Pig Ganon" unacknowledged. Actually, I think Ultimate would consider that he's currently a boss. It's unusual to me to distinguish different Ganon's as different characters. But also I'll admit I fall into the camp who never considered Ganon as an absent character because we've had Ganondorf since Melee. They're the same thing to me.
The Spirits are all very specific and separated forms. Ganon from ALTTP(and Zelda 1) do not appear in any way, shape, or form.
The specific ALTTP/Zelda 1 Ganons are not mentioned outside of Link's Smash 64 profile.
Every Trophy that isn't specifically the Ganon Final Smash does not mention Ganon, but Ganondorf.
Melee has zero mentions of Ganon in any way. He's not a Trophy, nor is mentioned among the Trophies. Even if it was just an OOT mention, that would've worked fine.
Ganondorf's first TP version Trophy is the only one(besides, as noted, the Final Smash Trophies) to even mention Ganon, and only by a description.
The Smash franchise has them as collectables instead of having the literal characters. It's also complicated in that it sometimes allows for only one version of a character to exist... but then Ultimate has them all as separate beings as Collectables. Like, Melee has two Marios outright who, unlike Zelda and Sheik, aren't connected at all. Z/S even gets changed in Brawl so that their Trophies cannot be collected together(same with other Transformation characters), more going the route of "clearly different characters".
Basically, the lore does vary too, but yeah, Ganon is absent in Melee, given a minor mention in Smash 64, and first debuts in Brawl as a character. Ganondorf debuted in Melee instead.
(I should also note that Four Swords Adventures has a different Ganondorf/Ganon altogether. He's a new reincarnation and isn't the same person as TP Ganondorf. He's also modeled after the ALTTP Ganon. Ganondorf does not appear in said game either, but he is mentioned. So even if we want to play the "same person", we know Classic Pig Ganon isn't always the same person as the regular Ganondorfs/Ganons are. TOTK also has a weird story that isn't clear if it's actually part of the normal timelines or just loosely referencing them, as it has story pieces that just don't match up. Nintendo isn't clearly anything up either at this time, so).
I think we're going to lose a few (probably not many) first-party franchises this time around. I agree being sole franchise rep does increase your priority, I just think the number of cuts are going to be such that it's going to come down to who is more expendable among characters in the mid-range of safety, which is where I think some of the smaller/newer to Smash/less current/less popular sole reps reside.
Again, it's not a question of whether these characters have merit; they do. One could make perfectly sound arguments for Min Min or WFT or DHD or ICs or any of the perhaps less safe solo reps. It's again a question of where these characters will be prioritized if cuts are much more comprehensive. What if only half the vets come back? What if the vet count is around Smash 4's roster?
It gets a lot trickier to keep all of these kind of choices when you actually try to compile a roster of that size. If all the series are retained, some other characters people consider on the safer side, who have valid arguments of their own, would likely be the casualties.
Not that Min Min is among the likeliest of cuts, but I think ARMS needs an ARMS 2 to get itself out of the danger zone.
Only semi-related but I'd love to see a multiverse-oriented Zelda game like the original Hyrule Warriors where we see Pig Ganon vs Ganondorf. Seeing the contrast between the two in their fighting styles and even motivations would be quite the novelty.
Only semi-related but I'd love to see a multiverse-oriented Zelda game like the original Hyrule Warriors where we see Pig Ganon vs Ganondorf. Seeing the contrast between the two in their fighting styles and even motivations would be quite the novelty.
Calamity Ganon(Humanoid form) VS TOTK Ganondorf(or even HW Ganondorf) would be an interesting contrast too.
They've made it clear their personalities vary throughout the ages, combined with some versions of Ganon being mindless or at least a raging beast. But some are actually intelligent. Main thing is that for the most part, Ganon's intelligent design was given to Ganondorf, while the mindless nature from OOT(and somewhat Zelda 1) went to Calamity Ganon.
You know what this reminds me of? Back during the good old days of Brawl's speculation period, there was all sorts of crazy stuff that this one Brawl fansite came up with, and of their ideas has stuck with me to this very day.
That idea? "Lady Hand". No, really.
They even came up with her moveset and claim that SHE'D be the new main antagonist of Brawl.
Side note, but... MAN, I miss these days of Smash Bros. speculation. For real, at the risk of emanating strong 'Old man yells at cloud' energy, it feels like the Smash Bros. fanbase lost this vibe after Brawl was released.
You know what this reminds me of? Back during the good old days of Brawl's speculation period, there was all sorts of crazy stuff that this one Brawl fansite came up with, and of their ideas has stuck with me to this very day.
That idea? "Lady Hand". No, really.
They even came up with her moveset and claim that SHE'D be the new main antagonist of Brawl.
Side note, but... MAN, I miss these days of Smash Bros. speculation. For real, at the risk of emanating strong 'Old man yells at cloud' energy, it feels like the Smash Bros. fanbase lost this vibe after Brawl was released.
You know what this reminds me of? Back during the good old days of Brawl's speculation period, there was all sorts of crazy stuff that this one Brawl fansite came up with, and of their ideas has stuck with me to this very day.
That idea? "Lady Hand". No, really.
They even came up with her moveset and claim that SHE'D be the new main antagonist of Brawl.
Side note, but... MAN, I miss these days of Smash Bros. speculation. For real, at the risk of emanating strong 'Old man yells at cloud' energy, it feels like the Smash Bros. fanbase lost this vibe after Brawl was released.
You know, if Lady Hand were real, and she could create illusions, I could see her creating illusions of other playable characters to fight the player character.
All like the polygon versions of fighters used by Polygon Man in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale.
Min Min is the sole representative a recent, successful, first party IP who offers a unique play style, while also not being very developmentally complex (her moveset is fairly straight forward, no pun intended, with the most "complex" thing from a development angle probably being the unique clash/block mechanics tied to her ARMS). Add in the additional bonuses of her making Smash less of an all out sausage fest and the fact that she's one of the very few human characters on the roster who aren't white or Japanese and she stands out even more.
I'd genuinely be shocked if she doesn't come back. I 100% expect her to return.
There's also the fact that Smash usually avoids power-scaling. It's never really implied that a character is stronger than the rest (I'm assuming it's because of series mandates). The only time it's been done is Kirby escaping Galeem in WoL and even that was done through an item, the Warp Star.
Making, say, Bowser the final boss of a Smash adventure mode would imply he's stronger than Ganondorf, K. Rool, Ridley, Sephiroth, etc. Using an existing character would also kinda ruin the immersion and skew the plot towards certain characters. Like if Ganondorf was the big bad, obviously Link would get more focus than other heroes. That's why they resort to original bosses, someone who can threaten everyone.
Can you imagine if they used Jin in a Story Mode. The dude's power is that he can manipulate elementary particles, allowing him to move at light speed, making him faster than every single member of the cast except for Sonic (I think. I couldn't get a satisfying answer on how whether or not he can canonically achieve light speed with or without the Chaos Emeralds).
Jin gives his shpeal on why he's so much faster than everyone. Shulk has visions that don't help him at all. Fox tries to pepper him with lasers, which doesn't work at all because he can nullify them and they don't even move at light speed anyway. Everybody gets rekt. Then Sonic shows up, beats him up, and goes "Come on, step it up!".
I highly doubt we'll lose her. ARMS was very successful, and there are likely to be future plans for it. They won't come to fruition soon, so we likely won't get any new ARMS characters, but I don't think we'll lose Min Min.
Calling it now, 2029-2030. 3-4 years after Mario Kart 10 depending on whether or not it starts development during or after Mario Kart 10's DLC development cycle.
The Spirits are all very specific and separated forms. Ganon from ALTTP(and Zelda 1) do not appear in any way, shape, or form.
The specific ALTTP/Zelda 1 Ganons are not mentioned outside of Link's Smash 64 profile.
Every Trophy that isn't specifically the Ganon Final Smash does not mention Ganon, but Ganondorf.
Melee has zero mentions of Ganon in any way. He's not a Trophy, nor is mentioned among the Trophies. Even if it was just an OOT mention, that would've worked fine.
Ganondorf's first TP version Trophy is the only one(besides, as noted, the Final Smash Trophies) to even mention Ganon, and only by a description.
The Smash franchise has them as collectables instead of having the literal characters. It's also complicated in that it sometimes allows for only one version of a character to exist... but then Ultimate has them all as separate beings as Collectables. Like, Melee has two Marios outright who, unlike Zelda and Sheik, aren't connected at all. Z/S even gets changed in Brawl so that their Trophies cannot be collected together(same with other Transformation characters), more going the route of "clearly different characters".
Basically, the lore does vary too, but yeah, Ganon is absent in Melee, given a minor mention in Smash 64, and first debuts in Brawl as a character. Ganondorf debuted in Melee instead.
(I should also note that Four Swords Adventures has a different Ganondorf/Ganon altogether. He's a new reincarnation and isn't the same person as TP Ganondorf. He's also modeled after the ALTTP Ganon. Ganondorf does not appear in said game either, but he is mentioned. So even if we want to play the "same person", we know Classic Pig Ganon isn't always the same person as the regular Ganondorfs/Ganons are. TOTK also has a weird story that isn't clear if it's actually part of the normal timelines or just loosely referencing them, as it has story pieces that just don't match up. Nintendo isn't clearly anything up either at this time, so).
I get where you're coming from, and yeah with Spirits I guess it's odd that they didn't have a classic Ganon spirit but did have classic Link. I personally just would never consider Ganon major absentee character, because we have Ganondorf. Like adding Ganon to the game is equivalent to adding Toon Link for me.
I often wonder how often we'd talk about Ganon if Ganondorf wasn't introduced as a Captain Falcon clone. It's often felt like to me his support base grew because he was seen as way of having a unique Ganon(dorf)
I get where you're coming from, and yeah with Spirits I guess it's odd that they didn't have a classic Ganon spirit but did have classic Link. I personally just would never consider Ganon major absentee character, because we have Ganondorf. Like adding Ganon to the game is equivalent to adding Toon Link for me.
I often wonder how often we'd talk about Ganon if Ganondorf wasn't introduced as a Captain Falcon clone. It's often felt like to me his support base grew because he was seen as way of having a unique Ganon(dorf)
True about Classic Link. Classic Zelda isn't there either, so. It's not so much weird as it's still silly that the original design(blue pig ganon) has yet to outright show up. Despite being... really important to the series.
As for Ganondorf, considering by the time he'd be added(Brawl), he'd be taking from much more physical-oriented games. It's just a matter of being fast(WW) or slow(TP). He'd probably focus on swords, and maybe a tad bit of magic.
For Ganon? Well, he'd still be quite different to begin with, since he has many unique abilities. As do other Ganons in general. They're far more widely different, whereas the quad of Canon Ganondorfs are very similar in designs overall(and share many abilities. Though ironically one of them isn't Dead Man's Volley. Being it didn't have a name till... Phantom Hourglass, well, and the fact they threw it onto tons of characters pretty fast, even ones who aren't hard-related to Ganon in some way(like a Blue Stalfos), it wasn't even treated as important to them. So that's already a move that wouldn't necessarily get in in general, though if it does work well with WW Ganondorf, sure. That's a particular move that works reasonably well with a character who often parries attacks.
Villains eh...
We all know the real villain of videogames is clearly cheatman! Who wants to destory the Game world!
No but seriously im at the finale of my comic which i didnt expect to pull of!
On a diffrent topic:
I wonder if smash 6 adds other zeldas, links or ganons as mii costumes?
Especially if we get boomerang, bomb and bow and arrows specials!
I could see the toys and toons working well as miis!
Or maybe thats were young link ends up? because hes the one link i cant really fit onto the adult and toon bodytypes?
I guess he might end up being only reffrenced as OOT adult link and fierce deity?
Also cool would be a wobbly Octorok Headpiece Because i do really want them playable somehow!
(could a full octorok costume work?)
Villains eh...
We all know the real villain of videogames is clearly cheatman! Who wants to destory the Game world!
No but seriously im at the finale of my comic which i didnt expect to pull of!
She's popular, but I think they'd want to include someone who actually uses their... you know, arms. So I think a few characters might take precedent. I don't think we'll get a second ARMS character at all though. Min Min is enough of a nuisance and the game kinda just came and went.
TOTK also has a weird story that isn't clear if it's actually part of the normal timelines or just loosely referencing them, as it has story pieces that just don't match up. Nintendo isn't clearly anything up either at this time, so).
nintendo once said that botw/totk take place at the end of the timeline which is all the clearing up we're getting. they did also say that they hyrule in these game may be a different version
nintendo once said that botw/totk take place at the end of the timeline which is all the clearing up we're getting. they did also say that they hyrule in these game may be a different version
Yeah, it does honestly feel like it's just an alternate thing at times. Plus, it's much easier to imagine that way than trying to tie them together. At worst, a game or two might have an oddity(ALTTP and OOT's stories don't perfectly meld together, but they still work outside of these few moments).
i think it could be ninjara as he was being considered
Base game I could see that. Though it doesn't mean others are impossible. Spring Man is still there, and Ribbon Girl is another notable one. Him being an AT in the first place does show that when it comes to some bigger representation, Sakurai did treat Spring Man as fairly important. That doesn't mean he'd jump to playable, but it's something to keep in mind. Besides that, he was treated as possible with the whole promotion thing they did to give the game attention. Being an AT was blatantly not treated like a big deal in tiself.
DLC is a much bigger mystery, since that could be something like a later ARMS 2 or other various factors(like an ARMS re-release with new stuff added, and possibly things like a minor change in story, like something more coherent than just "anybody could be the protagonist". Which means it's possible certain characters may gain more key focus. I mean, technically 2 do with Max Brass and Dr. Coyle, but other playable ones in said story mode could change it up).
0% for base game. If she pops off in ARMS 2 and said game lines up for DLC then it gets much better for her.
If we get a 2nd ARMS character for base, it's gonna be an Echo Fighter or clone like Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, or Ninjara. Ninjara is the most likely of those three.
BTW speaking of ninjara from ARMS...
How about the 8 Ninjala Protags? Burton, Bereca, Ron, Jane, Van, Kappei, Lucy and Ema?
Im just spitballing cause im watching the anime!
Burton and berecca recently traveled into the past of oedo (japan)
Im guessing if ninjala characters were to be playable their default weapon would be the gum katana (which in the show is only really used by burton cause he is THE MAIN CHAR)
Its also the default weapon in game so that makes sense!
Yeah, it does honestly feel like it's just an alternate thing at times. Plus, it's much easier to imagine that way than trying to tie them together. At worst, a game or two might have an oddity(ALTTP and OOT's stories don't perfectly meld together, but they still work outside of these few moments).
well there are multiple Links, Zeldas, Ganons, Impas, Eponas, Beedles and Tingles so i guess why not multiple hyrules? well it was techincally established in spirit tracks
Base game I could see that. Though it doesn't mean others are impossible. Spring Man is still there, and Ribbon Girl is another notable one. Him being an AT in the first place does show that when it comes to some bigger representation, Sakurai did treat Spring Man as fairly important. That doesn't mean he'd jump to playable, but it's something to keep in mind. Besides that, he was treated as possible with the whole promotion thing they did to give the game attention. Being an AT was blatantly not treated like a big deal in tiself.
DLC is a much bigger mystery, since that could be something like a later ARMS 2 or other various factors(like an ARMS re-release with new stuff added, and possibly things like a minor change in story, like something more coherent than just "anybody could be the protagonist". Which means it's possible certain characters may gain more key focus. I mean, technically 2 do with Max Brass and Dr. Coyle, but other playable ones in said story mode could change it up).
well there are multiple Links, Zeldas, Ganons, Impas, Eponas, Beedles and Tingles so i guess why not multiple hyrules? well it was techincally established in spirit tracks
Tingle's the oddest one too. Besides the MM one, it's not clear if he has something magical about him, since he and his brothers show up in the distant past(Minish Cap). That said, he has an odd origin game too, so he might just have a very long lifespan or could be immortal age-wise. It could just as well be multiple Tingles(his own game implies this as a possibility thanks to the ending).
Tingle's the oddest one too. Besides the MM one, it's not clear if he has something magical about him, since he and his brothers show up in the distant past(Minish Cap). That said, he has an odd origin game too, so he might just have a very long lifespan or could be immortal age-wise. It could just as well be multiple Tingles(his own game implies this as a possibility thanks to the ending).
She's popular, but I think they'd want to include someone who actually uses their... you know, arms. So I think a few characters might take precedent. I don't think we'll get a second ARMS character at all though. Min Min is enough of a nuisance and the game kinda just came and went.
Assuming Min Min come back, I don't think it truly matters that Twintelle doesn't use her arms. I'd even argue that the fact she doesn't fight using her arms could give her the edge, because that makes her much more unique than Spring Man or Ribbon girl for example.
I do agree tho that I'm really not expecting a second Arms characters, unless Arms 2 is a thing, and if it is a thing I have a feeling we will get a Arms 2 newcomers instead of someone from Arms 1 unless none of the Arms 2 new characters stand out.
I don't know if someone already said it in this thread (and very late), The King of Fighters XV is going to have some special DLC characters coming soon. Terry is in Smash, so it's kinda on-topic.
And if SF6 can have Terry and Mai, there is a chance to see at least some guest characters.
Here's my potential lineup:
Preecha
KOF XVI protagonist (yeah, I'm sure they will pull a Luke here)
Guest #1
Guest #2
Not sure if Ryu and Chun LI can be here, it can be any other character from any other game.
Personally, I think that ARMS 2 is going to be a thing, it just isn't yet. The dev team that made ARMS is the same dev team that makes Mario Kart, and with Mario Kart being the massive titan that it is, we won't be getting ARMS 2 until Mario Kart 10 is over, or it's DLC crew is small enough to develop ARMS 2 alongside it.
I’ve played some Project + recently after its update, and these are a few things that I think would be cool to see in SSB6:
The ability to change your port color: This is mostly so that I can have my port be pink instead of red as pink’s my favorite color.
War Mode and All-Star modes in Special Smash: Even though it can take awhile, a mode where you regain stocks after each ko is a cool novelty, and All-Star mode in Special Smash is pretty much a more fleshed out version of Squad Strike’s Tag Team mode.
Alright, I think I've laid out my prediction for the next game as of today. I only got two responses for what I had asked of you guys, but that's alright. I actually ended up having to go a bit over the base total that both respondees gave me, only because it was extremely tough to justifiably remove characters after a certain threshold, and my total for base game veterans ended up hovering around the character count SSB4 had post-DLC, which I feel is an acceptable benchmark veteran-wise for Smash installments going forward. Without further ado, here's the lists of veterans, newcomers, and echoes that I have laid out for my prediction for the next Smash installment.
Base game veterans (56 characters):
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Bowser Jr. (Koopalings as alts)
6. Wario
7. Yoshi
8. Donkey Kong
9. Diddy Kong
10. King K. Rool
11. Link
12. Zelda
13. Ganondorf
14. Samus
15. Ridley
16. Kirby
17. Meta Knight
18. King Dedede
19. Fox
20. Falco
21. Pikachu
22. Jigglypuff
23. Mewtwo
24. Lucario
25. Greninja
26. Inkling
27. Marth
28. Ike
29. Byleth
30. Olimar (Louie, Alph, P4 Rookie as alts)
31. Villager
32. Isabelle
33. Shulk
34. Pyra
35. Mythra (Her and Pyra are still a duo, I'm just following Ultimate's rules on this in terms of counting)
36. Min Min
37. Pit
38. Little Mac
39. Captain Falcon
40. Ness
41. Ice Climbers
42. Mr. Game & Watch
43. R.O.B.
44. Duck Hunt
45. Sonic
46. Bayonetta
47. Mega Man
48. Ryu
49. Pac-Man
50. Simon (Richter, Trevor, Julius as alts)
51. Snake
52. Cloud
53. Hero (Erdrick as the main costume, Luminary, Solo and Eight as alts)
54. Terry
55. Banjo & Kazooie
56. Steve (Alex, Zombie, Enderman as alts)
As a side note before I continue, I tend to not factor in the Mii Fighters in my predictions currently, as the jury's out on whether they'd still be important at all for the next system. Though I may go back and add them in, assuming backwards compatability is on the table for the next system.
Base game newcomers (12 characters):
1. Waluigi (Super Mario)
2. Impa (The Legend of Zelda)
3. Octoling (Splatoon)
4. A new, yet-to-be known Pokemon
5. Noah (Xenoblade)
6. Ring Fit Trainee (Ring Fit Adventure)
7. Conductor (Rhythm Heaven)
8. Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
9. A highly demanded Nintendo character (BWD, Isaac, an RPG Mario character etc)
10. The retro/surprise pick for this game
11. Bomberman
12. Zero (Mega Man X)
Echo fighters (7 characters):
=Returning echoes=
1. Daisy
2. Dark Samus
3. Lucina
4. Ken =New echoes=
1. Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
2. Mio (Xenoblade)
3. Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Now here's where things get tricky/interesting; the subject of DLC. My prediction is that there will be two types of DLC releases concerning characters: Challenger Packs, which are essentially like the ones in Ultimate, and individual characters, which are cheaper and handled more like some of the DLC releases in 4. This system is all going off the assumption that this next game will put a larger emphasis on post-launch content compared to past titles (I personally predict at least three Fighter's Passes worth of brand new characters at minimum.)
This system is mainly to address the unique situation of veterans returning as DLC. The latter category would specifically be targeted towards Nintendo's missing characters that miss the boat, but a few special cases would be in the former category for reasons that should be apparent when I list them off.
Characters that'd be sold as singular downloads (10 characters):
1. Rosalina & Luma
2. Toon Link
3. Wolf
4. Pokemon Trainer
5. Incineroar
6. Roy
7. Robin
8. Lucas
9. Wii Fit Trainer
10. Palutena
Challenger Packs (ordered by how confident I am of them out of everyone I've listed)
1. A new FE Lord
2. Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII)
3. Kazuya (Tekken)
4. Arle (Puyo Puyo)
5. Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
6. Character/protagonist from a to-be-revealed new Nintendo game (potentially two from this category)
7. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
8. Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)
9. Crash (Crash Bandicoot)
10. A new Atlus character (or Joker)
11. Dante/Phoenix Wright (Devil May Cry/Phoenix Wright) [I believe both are on equal footing currently]
12. Doomguy (Doom)
13. Crono (Chrono Trigger)
14. Adol (Ys)
15. The Tarnished (Elden Ring)
16. Tako (Parodius) [my personal shot in the dark prediction]
This is a non-exhaustive list and is the part most subject to change.
Feel free to give thoughts and feedback on my predictions here. I'm happy to explain my choices and decisions in as much detail as I can, if any of you wish to inquire. (also I may have made a goof up or two when posting this because this is a lot to double check so forgive me if any glaring oversights are present)
Pretty good roster, all things considered. The lack of Roy and Chrom stings (A LOT), but it's your roster.
By the way, I think you might have just help Sakurai and the Smash dev team figure out the secret on how rep the Pikmin games... I mean, having Captain Olimar, Louie, Alph, AND Pom (or... Lisa?) share one slot and (I assume) each have one alt. color...
For the record, I'm not exactly ENDORSING the idea (I'd still like for Alph to have his character slot, after all), but I could see Sakurai doing with Olimar what he WANTED to do with Fox McCloud and Team Star Fox all those years ago back in 1999.
Pretty good roster, all things considered. The lack of Roy and Chrom stings (A LOT), but it's your roster.
By the way, I think you might have just help Sakurai and the Smash dev team figure out the secret on how rep the Pikmin games... I mean, having Captain Olimar, Louie, Alph, AND Pom (or... Lisa?) share one slot and (I assume) each have one alt. color...
For the record, I'm not exactly ENDORSING the idea (I'd still like for Alph to have his character slot, after all), but I could see Sakurai doing with Olimar what he WANTED to do with Fox McCloud and Team Star Fox all those years ago back in 1999.
Thank you. I did put Roy in the downloadable veterans category for a reason, so at the very least the blow would be a bit softened there.
I think having the different Pikmin protagonists be alts of each other would be a natural fit, mainly since the Japanese naming for the character in Smash puts the Pikmin before their commander, which fits with how Pikmin's gameplay has always been more about what kinds of Pikmin you control more than who specifically is the one controlling them. I know people have suggested Oatchi as a second Pikmin character, but to be honest I've always seen that character to be Assist Trophy material. I feel they're currently my personal "just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll make it into the battle" character, if that makes sense.
Punch is on too many inputs and they tried to make it so much like ARMS that it doesn't gel with Smash's gameplay. Look at this, it's ridiculous.
Relegate Punch to Neutral special for her left arm and Side special for her right arm, and remove it from every other attack slot, replacing them with original attacks like the rest of the cast has.
Second is to make her arms vulnerable when she tosses them out, instead of allowing her to get away with everything she does for free. Have a K. Rool belly-armor esque mechanic where damaging the "arm" part of the arm too much in a short period of time makes it go limp, temporarily locking her out of using that arm for attacks. They need to at least make SOME adjustment to her arms' vulnerability so the rest of the cast stands a fighting chance against her.
I admire the Smash team for trying something new but her current design is too polarizing to keep it the way it is. So many characters like DK are just walled out from how she can abuse her arms with no punishment for spamming them, and she needs some form of built-in counterplay to keep her in check.
I always did wonder deep down if it would have been better for Min Min to be designed more like Mega Man, using all the various ARMS types throughout her normals/specials. i.e down smash is a double sided Megawatts attack.
