Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Pokemon sizes have always been goofy

smash sizes have been goofy

ahyuk

 

[Pupp135]

I have a bit of an interesting question for you guys, to gauge something I've been thinking about for a bit now.



If you can, try to imagine none of the Pokemon in Smash made it into the series except Pikachu... which of them do you think would have the most vocal fan support today? Who would you personally still want, even after their Generation has come and gone?

By default I assume prominent Gen 1 Pokemon like Charizard and Mewtwo would still have a following. Maybe a controversial take, but I think Mewtwo support would be a little stronger. While Charizard is demonstrably more popular in the general public, I feel like the power fantasy of a legendary Pokemon and a more sinister, mysterious kind of Pokemon would be more enticing. Charizard would moreso "make sense" and you'd have people suggesting it could show up at any point, but others may see it like if it was going to be added, it would have been already. Whereas I could see Mewtwo developing a Ridley-esque cult following blossoming into a strong, vocal support base.

It's hard for me to say for Lucario or Greninja. They're still popular, but I wonder if the community would have kinda moved on after their time in the sun and figured they missed their chance. I do think the Kalos focus for the next Legends game at least puts Greninja back in people's mouths. But generally with these kind of movie / starter Pokemon we figure they just unfortunately missed out. It's also hard to say how much Smash influenced their popularity overall, and what the future of the characters looks like without it. Gen 1 kinda gets a pass for obvious reasons.

I dunno, just thought it's an interesting talking point. With how difficult it is to slim down this lineup of characters as well, I kind of want to know which ones are actually the most popular and who would be the most missed / desired. I think I'd still want to see Mewtwo, someone from the Bulbasaur line and maybe Greninja if I had never seen them in Smash yet. I'd like to say Incin but it really is the execution that sold me on him.

If I had to guess, I’d assume that Charizard, Lucario, and Mewtwo would probably be heavily requested given their popularity and prominence in marketing. While Greninja is also popular, it does seem less prominent, so I‘d say that it would be requested but not as heavily as the three above.

I honestly think that Jigglypuff, Squirtle, Incinoroar, and Pichu would still have a handful of supporters as Jigglypuff and Squirtle did have some notable roles in the anime and appear in a handful of merchandise, Incinoroar is a relatively recent starter comparatively, and Pichu is a baby Pikachu, but they would not be as requested as the others above.

Ivysaur would probably not be requested, and I’d assume that people would either vouch for Bulbasaur or Venasaur.

In terms of other pokemon, I could see Meowth, Gengar, Eevee, Mew, Scizor, Grovyle, Gardevoir, Deoxys, Garchomp, Mimickyu, Meowscarada, and Tinkaton receiving support. At the moment, I’d guess that Gengar, Eevee, Melwscarada, and Tinkaton would be some of the more requested ones.

Edit: I forgot Pokemon Trainer. I think the idea would pop up every now and then, but it would probably revolve around controlling the trainer instead of the pokemon.

 

[ninjahmos]

I may have said this before, but...I kinda want Tails AND Knuckles to join Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What is OW? All I can think of is Overwatch but that’s Blizzard, not Valve.

Yeah, I realized my mistake and fixed it right away.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I kinda want to see how RPG mascots and recurring characters would appear during gameplay.

Final Fantasy has Chocobo and Moogle. I like how Chocobo is a Mii costume. I wonder how the Moogles would appear (besides as a spirit)?

Dragon Quest has Slime, which appears in both Hero's taunts, winning pose, and in the Yggdrasil's Altar stage. Mimic, another regular in the series, also appear in that same stage.

Shin Megami Tensei has Jack Frost and Pixie, so I wonder how they would appear? I think they'd make some good cameos too.

 

[smashkirby]

I have a bit of an interesting question for you guys, to gauge something I've been thinking about for a bit now.



If you can, try to imagine none of the Pokemon in Smash made it into the series except Pikachu... which of them do you think would have the most vocal fan support today? Who would you personally still want, even after their Generation has come and gone?

By default I assume prominent Gen 1 Pokemon like Charizard and Mewtwo would still have a following. Maybe a controversial take, but I think Mewtwo support would be a little stronger. While Charizard is demonstrably more popular in the general public, I feel like the power fantasy of a legendary Pokemon and a more sinister, mysterious kind of Pokemon would be more enticing. Charizard would moreso "make sense" and you'd have people suggesting it could show up at any point, but others may see it like if it was going to be added, it would have been already. Whereas I could see Mewtwo developing a Ridley-esque cult following blossoming into a strong, vocal support base.

It's hard for me to say for Lucario or Greninja. They're still popular, but I wonder if the community would have kinda moved on after their time in the sun and figured they missed their chance. I do think the Kalos focus for the next Legends game at least puts Greninja back in people's mouths. But generally with these kind of movie / starter Pokemon we figure they just unfortunately missed out. It's also hard to say how much Smash influenced their popularity overall, and what the future of the characters looks like without it. Gen 1 kinda gets a pass for obvious reasons.

I dunno, just thought it's an interesting talking point. With how difficult it is to slim down this lineup of characters as well, I kind of want to know which ones are actually the most popular and who would be the most missed / desired. I think I'd still want to see Mewtwo, someone from the Bulbasaur line and maybe Greninja if I had never seen them in Smash yet. I'd like to say Incin but it really is the execution that sold me on him.

If you don't mind, I have a question for you that's kind of pertaining to this. Provided she wasn't an alt. skin for Pikachu yet, what would you think about the idea of Pikachu Libre joining Smash, borrowing from her Pokken Tournament incarnation, wrestling moves and all?

Also, as long as I'm quoting your post...

Charizard=Lucario=Mewtwo
Greninja
Incineroar
Jigglypuff=Squirtle (Both of them better thank the anime, big time)
Pichu (I feel like people would look at Pichu fondly as a neat little pick. Like, he wouldn't be a COMPLETE joke suggestion, but people would have fun with the idea of a young Pikachu in Smash)
Ivysaur (Yeeeaaah... while I do enjoy it, ESPECIALLY in Ultimate... nope. I don't see it getting suggested, even as a "joke" suggestion like what I think people would suggest Pichu).

 

[Oracle Link]

Sometimes I wonder who you support that isn’t Toy Link

Ahem:

Dark matter, Magolor, Bandana waddle Dee, Whispy, Kracko, Morpho Knight or galacta, Toad, Mario Rpg Reps
Cyndaquil, Octorok, Ganondorf with a revamped moveset, a small zelda that fits with a small link, Vaati, Skull Kid, Yunobo or another goron,
Octorok, Midna, a zora, Octorok, did i say octorok already?, Porky, Giygas, The Human, Flowey, The Fun Gang, My OCs i guess!
A Metroid larva would be cute!

The only reason why i talk about toy link currently is cause of the newly announced zelda and him not being playable in it!

 

[Curious Villager]

While we're talking about Pikachu's size, Ultimate's sizes for the smallest and biggest characters in general are goofy af. Yeah Pika is bigger than he has any right to be, but look at this:

View attachment 391634

Why in the frick is Pichu as tall as Pikachu? What did the devs feed her? Where's the rat spray? I don't feel safe man, mutants everywhere

Fun (or sad?) fact, OG Raichu still has never been physically acknowledged in any Smash game to this day, not even as a trophy/sticker/spirit outside of a passing mention here and there. We got to see Alolan Raichu in Smash before the OG one, talk about living in Pikachu's shadow...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We got to see Alolan Raichu in Smash before the OG one, talk about living in Pikachu's shadow...

Oh so that's how Let's Snuggle Forever works; Mimikyu catches you and has a Raichu beat you up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fun (or sad?) fact, OG Raichu to this day still has never been physically acknowledged in any Smash game to this day, not even as a trophy/sticker/spirit outside of a passing mention here and there. We got to see Alolan Raichu in Smash before the OG one, talk about living in Pikachu's shadow...

It took way too long to get anything of Impa as well(despite being pretty active as a character throughout the franchise. Albeit, her model wouldn't be great from OOT, so that can somewhat explain it. It took a while before she got a good model, though).

...On the other hand, Classic Pig Ganon(ALTTP) has had a good model for a while now(though at least, being a Spirit would've been pretty easy too). It's really weird how he's not acknowledged at all. Impa is a far less important character(hence taking so long), but ALTTP Ganon is a completely different story. Melee not even having OOT Ganon in there was pretty silly, at least. Brawl and Wii U do have TP Ganon, and WW Ganondorf is present among a few spots.

They really are hesitant to give the original villain his dues, sadly.

It's too bad a ton of awesome iconic characters just simply aren't acknowledged.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It took way too long to get anything of Impa as well(despite being pretty active as a character throughout the franchise. Albeit, her model wouldn't be great from OOT, so that can somewhat explain it. It took a while before she got a good model, though).

...On the other hand, Classic Pig Ganon(ALTTP) has had a good model for a while now(though at least, being a Spirit would've been pretty easy too). It's really weird how he's not acknowledged at all. Impa is a far less important character(hence taking so long), but ALTTP Ganon is a completely different story. Melee not even having OOT Ganon in there was pretty silly, at least. Brawl and Wii U do have TP Ganon, and WW Ganondorf is present among a few spots.

They really are hesitant to give the original villain his dues, sadly.

It's too bad a ton of awesome iconic characters just simply aren't acknowledged.

I was gonna say they probably just use the current Smash Gannon but uh...

WW Ganondorf is present among a few spots.

Yeah I dunno. Pretty sure Calamity Gannon's there too, though that at least is explained by marketing.

And after looking it up T(oilet) P(aper) Gannon's here too. I really don't know.

EDIT: Actually it looks like WW Ganondorf is absent, but they do have a TP Ganondorf Spirit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was gonna say they probably just use the current Smash Gannon but uh...

Yeah I dunno. Pretty sure Calamity Gannon's there too, though that at least is explained by marketing.

And after looking it up T(oilet) P(aper) Gannon's here too. I really don't know.

None of those are ALTTP(or even Zelda 1 Ganon), which is my point. They're very iconic designs and quite important... yet still aren't acknowledged. The other ones are great too, but there's really no reason to skip both of the first Ganon designs. I did forget to mention Calamity Ganon, but I don't treat him as normal Ganon due to Ganondorf not transforming into him. It's kind of a strange situation either way, but that's due to them clearly not following the classic Zelda formula anymore.

But yeah, many iconic characters just aren't acknowledged at all. At least with Spirits, it's far easier to get a lot more content in, heh. Hopefully we get his appearance/design from ALTTP(and maybe Zelda 1 as well) in the next Smash.

(On another note, Link from LA Switch happens to be represented by Toon Link. It probably doesn't help that people have nicknamed him "Christmas Special Link", so the cartoony design isn't really that off. That said, the latest artstyle does feel like something of an upgrade to the normal Toon style. Though the Adult Link games also are more cartoony, but, well... Adult. Ironically they're also closer to the original Toon style too, with the much brighter colors, but also more simplistic designs. And they don't look outright like Toys).

 

[Master_Scorpion]

I have a bit of an interesting question for you guys, to gauge something I've been thinking about for a bit now.



If you can, try to imagine none of the Pokemon in Smash made it into the series except Pikachu... which of them do you think would have the most vocal fan support today? Who would you personally still want, even after their Generation has come and gone?

By default I assume prominent Gen 1 Pokemon like Charizard and Mewtwo would still have a following. Maybe a controversial take, but I think Mewtwo support would be a little stronger. While Charizard is demonstrably more popular in the general public, I feel like the power fantasy of a legendary Pokemon and a more sinister, mysterious kind of Pokemon would be more enticing. Charizard would moreso "make sense" and you'd have people suggesting it could show up at any point, but others may see it like if it was going to be added, it would have been already. Whereas I could see Mewtwo developing a Ridley-esque cult following blossoming into a strong, vocal support base.

It's hard for me to say for Lucario or Greninja. They're still popular, but I wonder if the community would have kinda moved on after their time in the sun and figured they missed their chance. I do think the Kalos focus for the next Legends game at least puts Greninja back in people's mouths. But generally with these kind of movie / starter Pokemon we figure they just unfortunately missed out. It's also hard to say how much Smash influenced their popularity overall, and what the future of the characters looks like without it. Gen 1 kinda gets a pass for obvious reasons.

I dunno, just thought it's an interesting talking point. With how difficult it is to slim down this lineup of characters as well, I kind of want to know which ones are actually the most popular and who would be the most missed / desired. I think I'd still want to see Mewtwo, someone from the Bulbasaur line and maybe Greninja if I had never seen them in Smash yet. I'd like to say Incin but it really is the execution that sold me on him.

I personally would want Corviknight, Empoleon, Blastoise

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

None of those are ALTTP(or even Zelda 1 Ganon), which is my point.

I got your point. My post was pretty much just agreeing with you.

(On another note, Link from LA Switch happens to be represented by Toon Link. It probably doesn't help that people have nicknamed him "Christmas Special Link", so the cartoony design isn't really that off. That said, the latest artstyle does feel like something of an upgrade to the normal Toon style. Though the Adult Link games also are more cartoony, but, well... Adult. Ironically they're also closer to the original Toon style too, with the much brighter colors, but also more simplistic designs. And they don't look outright like Toys).

Imagine a WW style game with the LA art style...

...Now I'm picturing Thomas the Tank Engine, but with Link. lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Imagine a WW style game with the LA art style...

...Now I'm picturing Thomas the Tank Engine, but with Link. lol

Spirit Tracks remake when~?

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh so that's how Let's Snuggle Forever works; Mimikyu catches you and has a Raichu beat you up.

Mimikyu was just OG Raichu in disguise all this time, scratch that, I guess he was in Smash all along after all....

 

[Freduardo]

So, what do you guys think of the Smash original content we have? Things like Battlefield (and it's big and small variants), Final Destination, the original Smash music, the bosses, etc.

I do love the ability to play any track on the Smash stages, but at the same time, I do think some of Smash's identity has been taken away. There are a lot of great Smash Bros tracks that never get played.

I also really love all of the Smash themes. They're all great. Even Smash 64 and Smash 4. I actually think Smash 4's theme is underrated.

They're great. I just wish we got all the Smash original bosses. Which admittedly for Ultimate just means "Duon, Tabuu, and Master Core"

But yeah, them.

And Primids. I wanted a playable Primid and never got one.

--

If you where able to give a unrepresented series that you haven't played a rep, which one would you pick?

I haven't played? Hmm....

Pyramid Head

Has anyone ever brought up Gauntlet in regards to Smash? I played the original game a bit but I really liked Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy on the N64. I’m sure it’s not big enough to get a playable character but that series had some cool songs and was a fun co-op game at the time where there weren’t a whole lot of co-op adventure games.

Hell, I'd take Gauntlet in regards to Gauntlet. But WB owns them now and they haven't had a new game since 2014.

 

[Oracle Link]

I don’t really want a fourth Link in Smash. The only other Link I’d be excited for is Wolf Link paired with Midna like in Hyrule Warriors.

I never said hes becomming the fourth link? He would be either a case like young to toon link meaning a new flavour of smol link!
You know just like link gets a update each game so can the small link slot!
Or just make him an alt for toon link ill be satisfied with that!

So have Toy Zelda instead, with her rod in the latest Zelda game.

I would say that you could replace zelda with toy zelda just have her phantom be summoned via trirod!
I dont know saying screw you to toy link is mean! Like come on!
If Toy zelda is in so should toy link! (Im sure were gonna find a way right?)

Also Eiji anouma can you please come up with a prefix!
Because toylink is inacurate and the others are underused!
Something like Downfall Link, Model Link, Smol Bean Link, Forfeit all mortal possesions to this Link!

 

[smashkirby]

So, what do you guys think of the Smash original content we have? Things like Battlefield (and it's big and small variants), Final Destination, the original Smash music, the bosses, etc.

I do love the ability to play any track on the Smash stages, but at the same time, I do think some of Smash's identity has been taken away. There are a lot of great Smash Bros tracks that never get played.

I also really love all of the Smash themes. They're all great. Even Smash 64 and Smash 4. I actually think Smash 4's theme is underrated.

Personally, I LOVE it all. It's fascinating to see the Smash Bros. world have a sort-of "intersection" point, in terms of the Battlefield incarnations and ESPECIALLY Final Destination (the latter of which is constantly referred to as the 'bridge between the real world and the world of imagination where the Smash Bros. games take place').

As for things like theme songs? I also appreciate them a great deal. Personally, I feel like both Smash 64 AND Smash 4's themes are insanely underrated (to the point where I don't think anyone's EVER made a remix of Smash 64's opening theme). With that said, I wish Ultimate went the extra mile and had EVERY single "loopable" Smash Bros. song be played on the B.F. variants and F.D. (such as Melee's intro theme).

Regarding enemies and bosses? Well, I don't care what anyone tells me, Sakurai ABSOLUTELY made the right call developing original Smash Bros. enemies and bosses.

I mean, I can totally see this fanbase getting overly pissy over a certain series getting preferential treatment over their antagonist being the MAIN antagonist of a Smash Bros. story, for example.

 

[DKing]

Sakurai ABSOLUTELY made the right call developing original Smash Bros. enemies and bosses.

That's a good call.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I never said hes becomming the fourth link? He would be either a case like young to toon link meaning a new flavour of smol link!
You know just like link gets a update each game so can the small link slot!

It would still be a fourth Link, just not at the same time as the other 3.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, I can totally see this fanbase getting overly pissy over a certain series getting preferential treatment over their antagonist being the MAIN antagonist of a Smash Bros. story, for example

One can only imagine what it'd be like if the Black Knight was made the main villain of a Smash story.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the reason why final bosses are always Smash original is because trying to find an existing character that fits a theme that every fighter would relate to in some way is absolutely ridiculous, so instead the theming is shifted to creativity, and the states of mind regarding creativity, which encompasses the fighters as the subject of said creativity, but since the actual creativity being used is analogous to the real world, new villains are required to represent that.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I think the reason why final bosses are always Smash original is because trying to find an existing character that fits a theme that every fighter would relate to in some way is absolutely ridiculous, so instead the theming is shifted to creativity, and the states of mind regarding creativity, which encompasses the fighters as the subject of said creativity, but since the actual creativity being used is analogous to the real world, new villains are required to represent that.

I do wonder what a new villain would represent in the series.

Tabuu seemed to represent growing up from what I’ve heard. Galeem and Dharkon held control over spirits…

Maybe a new villain could represent wanting to either remain in the same place forever, or moving on from the past.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Beeny for Smash 6.

 

[superprincess]

I think the reason why final bosses are always Smash original is because trying to find an existing character that fits a theme that every fighter would relate to in some way is absolutely ridiculous, so instead the theming is shifted to creativity, and the states of mind regarding creativity, which encompasses the fighters as the subject of said creativity, but since the actual creativity being used is analogous to the real world, new villains are required to represent that.

There's also the fact that Smash usually avoids power-scaling. It's never really implied that a character is stronger than the rest (I'm assuming it's because of series mandates). The only time it's been done is Kirby escaping Galeem in WoL and even that was done through an item, the Warp Star.

Making, say, Bowser the final boss of a Smash adventure mode would imply he's stronger than Ganondorf, K. Rool, Ridley, Sephiroth, etc. Using an existing character would also kinda ruin the immersion and skew the plot towards certain characters. Like if Ganondorf was the big bad, obviously Link would get more focus than other heroes. That's why they resort to original bosses, someone who can threaten everyone.

 

[smashkirby]

One can only imagine what it'd be like if the Black Knight was made the main villain of a Smash story.

You know, I probably should have made this clear when I said what I said earlier; I wasn't referring to Fire Emblem in particular. I just meant that if something along the lines of the main antagonist of ANY 'established franchise' (like Bowser, King K. Rool, Ganondorf, Mother Brain, Andross, Nightmare (Kirby), etc.) became 'promoted' into becoming the main antagonist of a Smash Bros. story, I imagine that would NOT sit well with the fanbase all too well...

I think the reason why final bosses are always Smash original is because trying to find an existing character that fits a theme that every fighter would relate to in some way is absolutely ridiculous, so instead the theming is shifted to creativity, and the states of mind regarding creativity, which encompasses the fighters as the subject of said creativity, but since the actual creativity being used is analogous to the real world, new villains are required to represent that.

Wow... yeah, you pretty much summed it up well here! What's more (and I'm not totally putting THAT much stock into Game Theory's words here), Game Theory's... theory about Smash Bros. and the concept of creation (and destruction) doesn't TOTALLY seem out-there as an idea, right?

You know... I wonder if THIS is why the main antagonists of Smash haven't really displayed much in the way of personality...

 

[Will]

Maybe a new villain could represent wanting to either remain in the same place forever, or moving on from the past.

Or maybe it’s Master Foot and Crazy Foot, the long-lost estranged cousins of Master Hand and Crazy Hand. And Andross becomes the Master Head

 

[HyperSomari64]

The main villain will be a "Deadly Alliance" between Geno and Waluigi.

Taking revenge from being rejected. They also have an army with all the characters who are Assist Trophies, Collectables (Trophies/Spirits) and Mii Costumes. (Poké Ball Pokémon are safe)

 

[DKing]

The main villain will be a "Deadly Alliance" between Geno and Waluigi.

Taking revenge from being rejected. They also have an army with all the characters who are Assist Trophies, Collectables (Trophies/Spirits) and Mii Costumes. (Poké Ball Pokémon are saf)

That would be cool with cinematic from the subspace in Brawl.

 

[NintenRob]

On the other hand, Classic Pig Ganon(ALTTP) has had a good model for a while now(though at least, being a Spirit would've been pretty easy too). It's really weird how he's not acknowledged at all. Impa is a far less important character(hence taking so long), but ALTTP Ganon is a completely different story. Melee not even having OOT Ganon in there was pretty silly, at least. Brawl and Wii U do have TP Ganon, and WW Ganondorf is present among a few spots.

They really are hesitant to give the original villain his dues, sadly.

It's too bad a ton of awesome iconic characters just simply aren't acknowledged.

I feel like there's a slight flaw in this line of thinking. I don't think Smash Ultimate considers "Classic Pig Ganon" unacknowledged. Actually, I think Ultimate would consider that he's currently a boss. It's unusual to me to distinguish different Ganon's as different characters. But also I'll admit I fall into the camp who never considered Ganon as an absent character because we've had Ganondorf since Melee. They're the same thing to me.

 

[fogbadge]

They're the same thing to me.

well you would be right

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm really starting to worry about Min Min coming back.

I'd hate to lose her.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm really starting to worry about Min Min coming back.

I'd hate to lose her.

it would be quite disappointing to lose her. still hoping for ARMS 2

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm really starting to worry about Min Min coming back.

I'd hate to lose her.

I think she probably will, as ARMS is decently popular and might get a sequel on the Switch 2.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm really starting to worry about Min Min coming back.

I'd hate to lose her.

I don’t think there’s ever been a case of Smash losing an entire franchise representative, except for two extreme situations.

The Ice Climbers were just too much for the poor little 3DS to handle, and Snake was a case of Konami Konami-ing.

I’m not saying it can’t happen again, especially in the case of third parties, but I think first parties who are the only reps for their series are pretty safe.

 

[Laniv]

I'm really starting to worry about Min Min coming back.

I'd hate to lose her.

You know I was just thinking about this earlier. She fills a niche, so she should be fairly safe

Gonna parrot the others and say ARMS 2 when

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

I'm really starting to worry about Min Min coming back.

I'd hate to lose her.

If ARMS 2 gets announced,she'll be sabe being a veteran,relax

 

[Opossum]

Min Min is the sole representative a recent, successful, first party IP who offers a unique play style, while also not being very developmentally complex (her moveset is fairly straight forward, no pun intended, with the most "complex" thing from a development angle probably being the unique clash/block mechanics tied to her ARMS). Add in the additional bonuses of her making Smash less of an all out sausage fest and the fact that she's one of the very few human characters on the roster who aren't white or Japanese and she stands out even more.

I'd genuinely be shocked if she doesn't come back. I 100% expect her to return.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think the reason why final bosses are always Smash original is because trying to find an existing character that fits a theme that every fighter would relate to in some way is absolutely ridiculous

That's why the various villain characters should form an evil alliance, rather than trying to rely on a single character to do the job. Like in my Castle of Darkness idea:

I always like to imagine what a Castle of Darkness where all the Smash villains hang out would be like.

Ganondorf, Dracula, Mother Brain and Andross are in the throne room, standing around a map of the WoL, planning their next invasion.

There's an arena where Meta Knight, Dark Pit, Shadow and Bass are fighting duels to see who's the strongest.

In the bar, Wolf, Wario, Waluigi and Majima are playing poker. King Dededede and K. Rool are gorging themselves on a feast.

Down in the hangar, Dr. Wily and Eggman are making modifications to the Wily Machine and the Death Egg Robot. Liquid Snake is waxing Metal Gear REX.

Ridley and Firebrand are perched above the main gate, watching for intruders to descend upon. Rathalos is asleep on the roof.

And at the center of the castle, Giygas sits contained within the Devil's Machine. Sephiroth and Mewtwo sit nearby, studying the entity…

They don't necessarily get along or share motivations. But they operate as a group to be more of a threat and increase their chances of winning.

I don't think Smash Ultimate considers "Classic Pig Ganon" unacknowledged. Actually, I think Ultimate would consider that he's currently a boss.

As they should.