Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[dream1ng]

I'd revert her back throw so it more consistently combos into her forward smash again and let people cry about it lol.

Min Min already is fun. Not every character needs to fit every person's homogenized idea of fun. Variety is good and I like her.

No but it makes characters of precarious futures in Smash bereft of a quality which could otherwise provide a little more assurance to their survival, being a moveset more widely endeared.

For instance, I don't think Mewtwo's less than glowing reception to his implementation in Melee did him any favors going into Brawl.

So, uh...

Who do you think are the most played characters in the game?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was still Cloud.

 

[Oracle Link]

So, uh...

Who do you think are the most played characters in the game?

Game theory said link or kirby once!
I think that makes sense as both have really good looks and fun abilitys!

Mario for example might not be the favourite of people who dont like bearded characters or annoying down bs!

 

[Nabbitfan730]

link?

Ganondort for sure

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mario for example might not be the favourite of people who dont like bearded characters or annoying down bs!

Mario doesn't have a beard?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Game theory said link or kirby once!
I think that makes sense as both have really good looks and fun abilitys!

Mario for example might not be the favourite of people who dont like bearded characters or annoying down bs!

What does that to do with people playing them?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd have more confidence in Min Min if a few of these things weren't of note;

• ARMS' success is great... but beaten out by tons of games. Hell, 1-2 Switch beats it out pretty badly with 3.84 sales over ARMS' 2.72 sales(as of December 2022. It's very much also worth noting that since then, the sales have mildly gone up steadily on both, so there's no tangible change).
• ARMS was anywhere near the success of Wii Fit, which is among the top 10. ARMS solely got 46 of its console sales.
• The Manga wasn't cancelled.
• We knew the exact nature of how Nintendo asked Sakurai. We don't actually know if they didn't care who was chosen, or if Yabuki asked first. It's mildly implied it's the former, but that's not given enough detail. Within the same stuff that talks about Sakurai narrowing it down to Min Min and Ninjara, he also specifies Spring Man was treated as important, by comparing them as the only other two to touch the Smash Invitation. Whether this is just because Spring Man was the AT(so the bigger representation of the franchise in base) or if he did consider him for playable among those three is unclear. Until then, I wouldn't put any stock into Nintendo having a lot of hope for it.
  • That, and we don't know the nature of the 15 Fighter Promotion. While it suggests it was Nintendo's idea, we don't have clear data on it either. For all we know, it was Yabuki or Sakurai's idea to make it more fun. Nintendo's involvement isn't clear on it beyond "well, yeah, they obviously got some nice extra sales". Did it mean it was their idea to take advantage of Yabuki asking for Min Min? Was it always their plan to ask for an ARMS character and pull this because they didn't have a clear idea of who? We just don't know.
• The entire game had only 1 year and 4 months of anything till the Smash Promotion, which effectively got it a fair amount of sales(though it wasn't a big jump up either. It went from 2.01 million to 2.72 million. While it's not exactly a small increase, this still hasn't jumped up since it first was shown, which means it didn't keep people holding onto the franchise enough to keep sales massively going).
  • Speaking of, the game still being priced at 60 dollars isn't doing it any favors.
  • To further clarify on the game's support, it released in June 2017, and got full DLC updates up to December 2017. It was patches until September 2018, when it stopped getting support. This doesn't sound like it was bad or anything, just that it's pretty clear that it wasn't treated as lasting that long, especially when it only got a half a year of proper support.

Lastly, this doesn't mean she's going to be cut. I just don't see her as an obvious high priority. The success didn't net the franchise a continuation, it also pales in comparison to many other games, and there's absolutely no clear information on how Nintendo chose Min Min(nor the actual nature of the reason behind the promotional 15 characters bit).

I wouldn't say things are clearly in her favor. Being the sole member of the franchise doesn't say much if we can't really explain more details behind it. As well as other sole members have been cut before, albeit for specific reasons(Snake wasn't clear, but Ice Climbers were impossible to bring back at the time). If we knew the actual nature of these things, or at least had another ARMS product, we could see more clearly of how easily she would come back. But with the lack of details? It's understandable that not all will treat her as an obvious return... just someone in a good spot at best. Plus, the fact her successful franchise is in pretty bleh shape is not helping matters either. Like, success only goes so far. Many franchises have had a critical success in sales too. That doesn't mean they'll continue or things always work out. There's always more to consider. Like, why was the Manga cancelled? Did Nintendo not have confidence in it? Dark Horse Comics is still up and running, so they didn't go bankrupt or anything either. I'd apply a wait and see approach if ARMS 2 actually exists(even some notable leakers would change things up), but until then, she's in a very vague spot.

 

[osby]

I can't see Min Min having less importance than Ice Climbers if they of all series in Smash were deemed significant enough to bring back whenever the dev team was able to.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd have more confidence in Min Min if a few of these things weren't of note;

• ARMS' success is great... but beaten out by tons of games. Hell, 1-2 Switch beats it out pretty badly with 3.84 sales over ARMS' 2.72 sales(as of December 2022. It's very much also worth noting that since then, the sales have mildly gone up steadily on both, so there's no tangible change).
• ARMS was anywhere near the success of Wii Fit, which is among the top 10. ARMS solely got 46 of its console sales.
• The Manga wasn't cancelled.
• We knew the exact nature of how Nintendo asked Sakurai. We don't actually know if they didn't care who was chosen, or if Yabuki asked first. It's mildly implied it's the former, but that's not given enough detail. Within the same stuff that talks about Sakurai narrowing it down to Min Min and Ninjara, he also specifies Spring Man was treated as important, by comparing them as the only other two to touch the Smash Invitation. Whether this is just because Spring Man was the AT(so the bigger representation of the franchise in base) or if he did consider him for playable among those three is unclear. Until then, I wouldn't put any stock into Nintendo having a lot of hope for it.
  • That, and we don't know the nature of the 15 Fighter Promotion. While it suggests it was Nintendo's idea, we don't have clear data on it either. For all we know, it was Yabuki or Sakurai's idea to make it more fun. Nintendo's involvement isn't clear on it beyond "well, yeah, they obviously got some nice extra sales". Did it mean it was their idea to take advantage of Yabuki asking for Min Min? Was it always their plan to ask for an ARMS character and pull this because they didn't have a clear idea of who? We just don't know.
• The entire game had only 1 year and 4 months of anything till the Smash Promotion, which effectively got it a fair amount of sales(though it wasn't a big jump up either. It went from 2.01 million to 2.72 million. While it's not exactly a small increase, this still hasn't jumped up since it first was shown, which means it didn't keep people holding onto the franchise enough to keep sales massively going).
  • Speaking of, the game still being priced at 60 dollars isn't doing it any favors.
  • To further clarify on the game's support, it released in June 2017, and got full DLC updates up to December 2017. It was patches until September 2018, when it stopped getting support. This doesn't sound like it was bad or anything, just that it's pretty clear that it wasn't treated as lasting that long, especially when it only got a half a year of proper support.

Lastly, this doesn't mean she's going to be cut. I just don't see her as an obvious high priority. The success didn't net the franchise a continuation, it also pales in comparison to many other games, and there's absolutely no clear information on how Nintendo chose Min Min(nor the actual nature of the reason behind the promotional 15 characters bit).

I wouldn't say things are clearly in her favor. Being the sole member of the franchise doesn't say much if we can't really explain more details behind it. As well as other sole members have been cut before, albeit for specific reasons(Snake wasn't clear, but Ice Climbers were impossible to bring back at the time). If we knew the actual nature of these things, or at least had another ARMS product, we could see more clearly of how easily she would come back. But with the lack of details? It's understandable that not all will treat her as an obvious return... just someone in a good spot at best. Plus, the fact her successful franchise is in pretty bleh shape is not helping matters either. Like, success only goes so far. Many franchises have had a critical success in sales too. That doesn't mean they'll continue or things always work out. There's always more to consider. Like, why was the Manga cancelled? Did Nintendo not have confidence in it? Dark Horse Comics is still up and running, so they didn't go bankrupt or anything either. I'd apply a wait and see approach if ARMS 2 actually exists(even some notable leakers would change things up), but until then, she's in a very vague spot.

Unless you're considering the possibility of Min Min's replacement, then why she was chosen over Spring Man sounds pretty irrelevant. Other than that though...I dunno. I feel like ARMS did well enough to gain a sequel, and if I'm right, then she's going to be there. If not then she's 100% on the chopping block (or at least on extremely thin ice as a not well liked character from a series without legs), but I don't feel like that's the case.

I can't see Min Min having less importance than Ice Climbers if they of all series in Smash were deemed significant enough to bring back whenever the dev team was able to.

To be fair, the series has repeatedly seen fit to bring back everyone if possible. Being low priority mostly matters now because a big chunk of the roster is getting cut by necessity.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Unless you're considering the possibility of Min Min's replacement, then why she was chosen over Spring Man sounds pretty irrelevant. Other than that though...I dunno. I feel like ARMS did well enough to gain a sequel, and if I'm right, then she's going to be there. If not then she's 100% on the chopping block (or at least on extremely thin ice as a not well liked character from a series without legs), but I don't feel like that's the case.

That's a slight misunderstanding of what I said about Spring Man. It's implying Sakurai treated him as an important character too. That's it. Maybe he was one of the first considered, or almost made it in, but the other two edged out. Maybe his mascot status made him important for the trailer. We don't know. It just means he held some importance and that's it.

I think we'd overstating ARMS' success still. It's a successful series, but still a one-off. Its only other product got cancelled, and as I said, its support was very quickly over with. It wasn't huge by any means. The game did not have that much lasting power, and while the sales are good by all means, it didn't continue to accumulate that much more. It pretty much was dormant for nearly 5 years, and then became dormant after the Smash Promotion gave it a decent sales increase. The lack of lasting power doesn't help, nor does the support being 6 months alone help(nor did have a fair jump in sales justify more support. We also didn't suddenly see the Manga come back as a possibility with that reasonable jump in sales either, so we have no evidence it mattered that much). There's really no reason to believe Nintendo has high confidence in the series with the data we have. It could absolutely get a sequel... but there's no good evidence for that. That's what I'm basically getting at. It's in a poor position from the data we have. Being skeptical makes sense right now.

I also don't think a lack of a sequel means she's a 100% cut. That's kind of silly to go about it that way. It just means that her priority is not super high at best. Like, I can still see her easily over Wolf, Lucas, and Pichu, as they're reasonably low priority due to either being from a series who likely won't keep everyone(Pokemon), or from a Dormant and Finished Franchise respectively. She's also newer, and a more overall popular character(though not as popular to actually play against), but whether some annoyance at her poor balance matters is another story. Though if you solely meant that if she's not in the sequel, she won't be in Smash, I can see what you mean by that. I still don't think that would get her cut, but that reading makes more sense.

To be fair, the series has repeatedly seen fit to bring back everyone if possible. Being low priority mostly matters now because about a big chunk the roster is getting cut by necessity.

That and IC's were... chosen to for a Retro Rep spot(nobody else has gotten this treatment). Being he went through multiple characters to find one he finds the best, it's easy to see they're a bit special in this case. In addition, more important characters have been cut too. Or at least from way bigger series. The success of the game wasn't why they got in, after all.

ARMS' success is also not nearly as relevant as being made in the way that it got her in. Again, we don't know the actual reasons Nintendo chose her. If they even outright chose her(due to Yabuki's request). For all we know, they threw out the idea because Sakurai considered the franchise. We're missing tons of details. This is why it's hard to say what'll happen. There's not much reason to have confidence in her return with a massive lack of details.

I still think she's likely, even without a sequel, but there's not enough clear data to have hard confidence in her return. I could see her being a bit of a lower priority, but at some of the higher spots among them. Over IC's? Uh... no, they're a guarantee at this point. They have an actual niche others can't do. Min Min somewhat boasts this, but having a really unique moveset that doesn't follow traditional controls is a niche others also have. I don't think her moveset is replaceable or anything like that. It just means that alone isn't a good reason to strictly keep her when others can boast the same point. Being highly unique obviously isn't a guarantee(poor Mewtwo...).

(I do want her back too, but yeah, there's a lot of flaws with some reasons being thrown around. It's really important to remember that when comparing characters, to make sure the context of their situations is near identical, otherwise it misses a key element of the reasoning. Sometimes some are best to simply not compare, if they aren't even in a slightly similar situation. A better way to put it is that IC's and Min Min have two things in common; first party and a really unique moveset. Nothing else is overall truly similar).

 

[Oracle Link]

Mario doesn't have a beard?

True i forgot that! Because a the german word for Moustache has beard in it!

 

[Simnm]

I know I don’t post much here but I wanted to at least share this:

I think one of the reasons bpmberman didnt get in is because he had too much similiarity to snake

 

[Gengar84]

I think one of the reasons bpmberman didnt get in is because he had too much similiarity to snake

How do you figure? The only similarity is that they both use explosives but I wouldn’t argue that Link is too similar to either of them just because he uses bombs. I know Snake and Bomberman are both owned by Konami but I don’t really see them as all that similar.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Personally unless the next game really does have a lot of cuts, I think Min Min is fairly safe. I wouldn't say she's up there in term of most likely, but I can't see them cutting their only playable character from a new franchise introduced in the Switch era.

 

[Simnm]

How do you figure? The only similarity is that they both use explosives but I wouldn’t argue that Link is too similar to Snake. I know they’re both owned by Konami but I don’t really see them as all that similar.

I mean they both use explosives as their main weapon and considering the comptition that unfortunately left bomberman out

 

[Gengar84]

As long as we keep Sephiroth and Ganondorf I’ll manage. I really like a lot of characters on the roster but those are my two favorites.

 

[fogbadge]

As long as we keep Sephiroth and Ganondorf I’ll manage. I really like a lot of characters on the roster but those are my two favorites.

well i don't see ganondorf going anywhere

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Taking a look at the previous cut characters, Melee's cuts are all clones from series with multiple fighters and Mewtwo. For Mewtwo, my guess is that he was lower priority than the series's mascot Pikachu, and the 4 other newcomers being added, and ended up being the only standalone fighter who wasn't able to be finished in time. Originally, there wouldn't even have been time for any of the clones either, but with the team delaying to add Sonic, they decided they could add 3 of them along side him since despite having a decent amount of cut corners, Sonic is still an original character.

From the project plan, they had a choice between Toon Link (Young Link's replacement), Wolf, Dr. Mario, Roy, and (assumadely) Plussle (Pichu's replacement). They picked the former two, rethought Jigglypuff's exclusion, and added The Balloon Pokémon as well. Jigglypuff could have been added because they were easier than the others, but considering said others were Roy and especially Dr. Mario, I kinda doubt that. Legacy probably played a role here. The three also could have been picked because they stood out from thier base more than Roy, Dr. Mario, and Plussle would have.

Brawl's cuts were two semi-clones, two characters that didn't work on the hardware (impossible to say if other characters would have been cut instead if the 3Ds version didn't exist), Mewtwo, and Snake. Roy, Young Link, and Pichu did not return either, though they weren't in the previous game. It's probably that, aside from the technical difficulty cuts, Mewtwo was the only one of these characters that was on the project plan, but it's impossible to know why the others weren't. My only guess would be that they were less notable characters from smaller series, or series that already has a bunch of fighters. Or they were Snake, which might have had something to do with him being a 3rd, party, but there's no evidence on that. Mewtwo was once again outprioritized, but had enough work on them done that they were completed, and added as DLC.

Roy and Lucas were also selected for DLC later on, likely as a "one clone from Melee and one from Brawl" deal. As to why them specifically, Roy just kind of seems like the most obvious choice for Melee, as he's the most well liked, and Young Link would have been a 3rd clone of Link, which probably wouldn't have gone over well. Lucas's reason is probably a bit more arbitrary, as there's no easily identifiable reason as to why he'd be picked over Wolf. I kinda doubt Snake was considered here just because he was 3rd party though.

It's hard to have too many takeaways since this is a new situation from Ultimate, which is a new situation from SSB4, and 2 is not a pattern, but if we assume certain trends continue:

• Mewtwo will be on the next project plan, but will also be the lowest priority Pokémon character, which could get him cut anyway...again.
• Being a smaller character from a series with multiple fighters makes you a lot less likely, with this effect changing based on the size of the series, and how many fighters they have.
  • These characters also tend to be clones, but that's a bit of a chicken/egg situation. Could mean that Echo Fighters are less likely than we may expect, though Echo Fighters are more like prestige skins than real fighters so I dunno.
• 3rd parties are an enigma since we have only 1 incomplete example, but I do wager that being a 3rd party makes you a lot less likely than a similar 1st party.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai did note that Lucas was the fan favorite of Brawl among those who didn't make it in. Melee had Roy, and Mewtwo was the most popular veteran.

But otherwise, Sakurai spoke of why those two were cut(Wolf and Lucas); because they were characters from a franchise not getting any games. Lucas is obviously just a case of a finished series, whereas there was no Star Fox games coming out at the time, and Zero being delayed didn't help matters for DLC either. Who knows how much this'll affect series.

Young Link was probably never considered for 4 anyway. Not even as DLC. Toon Link was already there. Pichu is a bit harder to say, as it's a very popular Pokemon. But while the Smash Poll got tons of veteran votes anyway, it probably didn't affect DLC that much. It's even unclear how much it affected Bayonetta(early votes could've made a convincing argument to add her, if she only had a proof of concept done, or it was just an excuse used to show she was legitimately popular, despite being chosen for other reasons. Who knows). For the most part, it was used to help determine costumes and full-out used for Ultimate, giving lots of content(Veterans, Dark Samus, Chrom, Simon/Richter(Castlevania vote in general), Ridley, King K. Rool).

 

[superprincess]

Comparing Min Min to Ice Climbers is a bit... disingenuous? Yeah, both come from largely unimportant (and unpopular) games, that haven't really left their mark on Nintendo's history. But that's where the similarities really end.

However, comparing them to each other ignores the importance of seniority within Smash itself. Melee and Brawl are historical games that will be remembered forever, and Ice Climbers were part of that. Min Min joined (belatedly) in Ultimate's second wave of DLC. She hasn't really assimilated into the roster the way Ice Climbers have.

Not to mention Min Min is almost unanimously agreed to have the most annoying and one-note moveset in the series. IC's legacy is closely tied to jank, but they are still somewhat fondly remembered. Min Min isn't.

I still wouldn't want Min Min gone, but that's because I don't actively advocate for anyone to be cut. If they are, oh well, but I'm not asking for it. She's still one of the easier characters to lose in my opinion.

If I had to say something positive about her, uh... I like that she's one of only two female sole representatives of a franchise (alongside Bayonetta).

 

[Gengar84]

Comparing Min Min to Ice Climbers is a bit... disingenuous? Yeah, both come from largely unimportant (and unpopular) games, that haven't really left their mark on Nintendo's history. But that's where the similarities really end.

However, comparing them to each other ignores the importance of seniority within Smash itself. Melee and Brawl are historical games that will be remembered forever, and Ice Climbers were part of that. Min Min joined (belatedly) in Ultimate's second wave of DLC. She hasn't really assimilated into the roster the way Ice Climbers have.

Not to mention Min Min is almost unanimously agreed to have the most annoying and one-note moveset in the series. IC's legacy is closely tied to jank, but they are still somewhat fondly remembered. Min Min isn't.

I still wouldn't want Min Min gone, but that's because I don't actively advocate for anyone to be cut. If they are, oh well, but I'm not asking for it. She's still one of the easier characters to lose in my opinion.

If I had to say something positive about her, uh... I like that she's one of only two female sole representatives of a franchise (alongside Bayonetta).

I completely agree with this. I think a lot of people are too quick to discount past Smash games when it comes to a character’s relevance. Sheik is another perfect example of this. She’s only made one appearance in the mainline Zelda games but she’s a very popular Smash character and has been since Melee. I do also agree that it would be nice to see more non-avatar female characters in Smash so that is one point in Min-Min’s favor even if I never cared about ARMS as a game and find her Smash moveset kind of uninteresting.

 

[fogbadge]

I completely agree with this. I think a lot of people are too quick to discount past Smash games when it comes to a character’s relevance. Sheik is another perfect example of this. She’s only made one appearance in the mainline Zelda games but she’s a very popular Smash character and has been since Melee. I do also agree that it would be nice to see more non-avatar female characters in Smash so that is one point in Min-Min’s favor even if I never cared about ARMS as a game and find her Smash moveset kind of uninteresting.

yeah there is a lot of people who forget that’s there’s a difference between a character’s importance in their own series and their importance in smash

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I guess the second part is looking at series and trying to determine how big they are (at least for 1st parties. 3rd parties are on different metrics). Here's my attempt:

Spoiler

Flagship

• Super Mario
  • Donkey Kong
  • Yoshi
  • WarioWare
• The Legend of Zelda
• Pokémon
• Animal Crossing

Juggernaut

• Kirby (could be argued higher, but it's not quite as big as the 4 above it)
• Fire Emblem
• Xenoblade Chronicles
• Splatoon

Rising Star

• Metroid
• Pikmin

Volatile Future

• ARMS

Smol and/or Uncertain Future

• Star Fox
• F-Zero
• Game & Watch
• Kid Icarus
• PUNCH-OUT!!
• Mii

Dead (No New Games)

• Earthbound
• Ice Climber
• R.O.B.
• Wii Fit
• Duck Hunt

IMO, franchises higher on the list are more likely to lose characters because they already have so many, franchises lower on the list are more likely to lose all of their reps, and franchises in the rising star+ tier are guaranteed a slot on Nintendo's interest alone. The Miis are a little different since their likelihood lives or dies by the Mii Maker being a thing, and if the successor is backwards compatible, it most certainly will be.

 

[Gengar84]

superprincess brought up an interesting point at the end of her post. It would be cool if we could get some more female characters as the sole/first rep for their respective franchise. Beyond Bayonetta and Min-Min, the only one we’ve ever had is Samus. What other examples would you like to see? Here are some of mine:

Vi, Jinx, or Ahri (League of Legends)
Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
Velvet Crowe (Tales)
Etna (Disgaea)
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)
Black Orchid (Killer Instinct)
H’aanit (Octopath Traveller)
Frederica (Triangle Strategy)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Blaze (Streets of Rage)
Misako (River City)
2B (Nier)
Shantae (Shantae)
Tracer (Overwatch)
Lilith or Gaige (Borderlands)

 

[SPEN18]

No, the circumstances don't have to be similar in order to compare potential priority levels. It makes things harder, for sure, though it's not like anyone said it was easy to begin with. Making such comparisons is necessitated when they make the game, because they have to determine who gets made earlier and who gets left for the end when there is more risk of potentially not being finished.

Anyway, saying Ice Climbers are more "important to Smash" than Min Min / ARMS is another case of being completely unfair with that type of argument. ARMS didn't even exist for most of the time that Ice Climber was on the roster. You also don't get to leap from "Melee was a historically important game" to "Ice Climbers were there in Melee, therefore they are important to Smash."

Lastly, having some complaints about a moveset is honestly a horrible reason on its own to remove a character completely. If people love the character but have issues with the moveset, then just fix the moveset lol. People having qualms about Min Min in implementation doesn't negate the fact that the character is very well-liked overall. IF the complaints about Min Min's moveset are enough for the devs to view it as a problem in the first place (which I'm not even totally sure of), I think they'd sooner try to make some tweaks to her than drop her significantly in priority due to that, especially beneath a similarly technically challenging character to balance and create like the Ice Climbers.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Personally unless the next game really does have a lot of cuts, I think Min Min is fairly safe. I wouldn't say she's up there in term of most likely, but I can't see them cutting their only playable character from a new franchise introduced in the Switch era.

Unless Arms 2 comes out and they decide go the rotating route replace her with Arms 2 rep since Arms is on the lower totem pole in terms of Switch newcomers

No hopes for Spring Man

 

[ScrubReborn]

Del just shared his Jigglypuff overhaul

Bold of him to try to remake perfection.

The singing taunt is advanced thinking though. Just not in place of any of her current taunts. I'd make it a extended Smash Taunt with its own input.

Lucas's reason is probably a bit more arbitrary, as there's no easily identifiable reason as to why he'd be picked over Wolf.

If I had to guess, they mighta just wanted equal distribution between series. There were already two Star Fox characters and just one Earthbound fighter, so they probably figured it'd be more fair to reinclude the 2nd Earthbound character than the 3rd Star Fox character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It would be cool if we could get some more female characters as the sole/first rep for their respective franchise. Beyond Bayonetta and Min-Min, the only one we’ve ever had is Samus. What other examples would you like to see?

Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
Amaterasu [Okami]
Estelle Bright [Legend of Heroes]
Shantae [Shantae]

 

[Guynamednelson]

If I had to guess, they mighta just wanted equal distribution between series. There were already two Star Fox characters and just one Earthbound fighter, so they probably figured it'd be more fair to reinclude a 2nd Earthbound character than the 3rd Star Fox character.

I imagine resources were also cramped during that period when they were making Roy with an all-new design and animations, and Ryu who's a unique newcomer altogether with more moves than Smash fighters are supposed to have, so it was easier to make Lucas considering Ness meant his model was 90% complete, and 3/4 of Ness's specials had custom variants based on Lucas's. He also lacked some of the differences he's supposed to have with Ness.

 

[DKing]

superprincess brought up an interesting point at the end of her post. It would be cool if we could get some more female characters as the sole/first rep for their respective franchise. Beyond Bayonetta and Min-Min, the only one we’ve ever had is Samus. What other examples would you like to see? Here are some of mine:

Vi, Jinx, or Ahri (League of Legends)
Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
Velvet Crowe (Tales)
Etna (Disgaea)
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)
Black Orchid (Killer Instinct)
H’aanit (Octopath Traveller)
Frederica (Triangle Strategy)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Blaze (Streets of Rage)
Misako (River City)
2B (Nier)
Shantae (Shantae)
Tracer (Overwatch)
Lilith or Gaige (Borderlands)

Good list, I think if we will have 2B it will be a dlc you know square enix doing square enix thing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This character is controversial in the speculation scene, but I had thought about a what if scenario regarding Sheik last night as this scenario may have our perception of Sheik‘s likelihood for SSB6 change based on the current scenario and this one below.

If Sheik was added as a standalone character in Melee (i.e. Zelda was excluded but not Sheik), how would her priority going into Brawl and For be affected as she was tied to Zelda in Brawl and originally intended to be tied to Zelda in For?

The demand for Zelda would be insane. And Sheik not being around in future games after Ocarina of Time would probably hurt her solo inclusion, potentially leading to Mewtwo maybe taking priority over her in Brawl? Dunno. Her being part of Zelda's whole mechanic kept her around for Brawl mostly I guess. They had no problem tossing every other Zelda character out for their newest counter part after all.

So, uh...

Who do you think are the most played characters in the game?

Cloud probably, I also think Wolf, Ness, Palutena, Roy and Link are quite popular. Most cause many of them are easy to play and pick up, and Cloud is always popular, but not as much as Smash 4 I think. Also think veterans as Mario, Pikachu, Samus and Yoshi are popular, and strangely enough DK too.

 

[Will]

It would be cool if we could get some more female characters as the sole/first rep for their respective franchise.

Shantae (Shantae)

Shantae [Shantae]

Okay, who’s the male character from Shantae swinging his **** around and getting in Smash before the titular character?

 

[ninjahmos]

superprincess brought up an interesting point at the end of her post. It would be cool if we could get some more female characters as the sole/first rep for their respective franchise. Beyond Bayonetta and Min-Min, the only one we’ve ever had is Samus. What other examples would you like to see? Here are some of mine:

Vi, Jinx, or Ahri (League of Legends)
Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
Velvet Crowe (Tales)
Etna (Disgaea)
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)
Black Orchid (Killer Instinct)
H’aanit (Octopath Traveller)
Frederica (Triangle Strategy)
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Blaze (Streets of Rage)
Misako (River City)
2B (Nier)
Shantae (Shantae)
Tracer (Overwatch)
Lilith or Gaige (Borderlands)

Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
Jade (Beyond Good & Evil)
Chell (Portal)

 

[Gengar84]

Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
Jade (Beyond Good & Evil)
Chell (Portal)

Chun-Li would be cool but she doesn’t quite fit the question of the first rep for her series since Ryu and Ken are already in. Those would all be fun choices though.

 

[dream1ng]

I think Ice Climbers have a better shot than Min Min to return (barring an ARMS 2, whereupon I think Min Min would be pretty safe, or return as DLC) because while ARMS was overall bigger and more recent than Ice Climber, I do think seniority counts for a lot in Smash. It's basically what's kept Jigglypuff present.

That said, I think ICs are probably the least safe original Melee character. Either them or maybe Sheik. I don't think they'd be anywhere near first on the chopping block - along with seniority they are also sole reps of their franchise (albeit a very small and old franchise) but I do think if cuts are extensive enough, they are just more expendable than a lot of other options.

So I agree Min Min and ICs aren't exactly a 1:1, and I would give the edge to the latter, but I don't think either returning is assured. Depends on cut quantity.

superprincess brought up an interesting point at the end of her post. It would be cool if we could get some more female characters as the sole/first rep for their respective franchise. Beyond Bayonetta and Min-Min, the only one we’ve ever had is Samus. What other examples would you like to see? Here are some of mine:

Are we not counting WFT and Inkling because they come with male alts?

Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
2B (Nier)
Tracer (Overwatch)

Of the ones you listed I think these have the best chances. Particularly 2B.

Also Jill. And Monster Hunter, who often seems to be female as default - though like WFT and Inkling would probably have a male alt.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Ice Climbers have a better shot than Min Min to return (barring an ARMS 2, whereupon I think Min Min would be pretty safe, or return as DLC) because while ARMS was overall bigger and more recent than Ice Climber, I do think seniority counts for a lot in Smash. It's basically what's kept Jigglypuff present.

That said, I think ICs are probably the least safe original Melee character. Either them or maybe Sheik. I don't think they'd be anywhere near first on the chopping block - along with seniority they are also sole reps of their franchise (albeit a very small and old franchise) but I do think if cuts are extensive enough, they are just more expendable than a lot of other options.

So I agree Min Min and ICs aren't exactly a 1:1, and I would give the edge to the latter, but I don't think either returning is assured. Depends on cut quantity.


Are we not counting WFT and Inkling because they come with male alts?


Of the ones you listed I think these have the best chances. Particularly 2B.

Also Jill. And Monster Hunter, who often seems to be female as default - though like WFT and Inkling would probably have a male alt.

Yeah, I kind of count WFT and Inkling as avatars and not specifically female characters. It’s nice that the female was made the primary in those cases but it’s a little different in my eyes than an actual established female character.

I could be wrong but I feel like a League of Legends character like Jinx has a higher chance than Tracer. Arcane is getting a second season later this year and they’re working on their own team based fighter. Overwatch seems to have fallen in popularity with its sequel having a generally negative reception. I think Tracer could still be a fun option but I don’t see her chances as high as they were during OW’s peak popularity.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah, I kind of count WFT and Inkling as avatars and not specifically female characters. Its nice that the female was made the primary in those cases but it’s a little different in my eyes than an actual established female character.

I can understand not counting them because they're not exclusively female characters, but if they hypothetically didn't come with the male alt, it would be a little weird to not count them as female characters. They're avatars... but female avatars.

Also I'm not sure WFT is an avatar. It's not the player character; it's not meant to represent you - nor, to my knowledge, are they customizable past being male or female. I think they're just a deliberately generic character.

 

[Gengar84]

I can understand not counting them because they're not exclusively female characters, but if they hypothetically didn't come with the male alt, it would be a little weird to not count them as female characters. They're avatars... but female avatars.

Also I'm not sure WFT is an avatar. It's not the player character; it's not meant to represent you - nor, to my knowledge, are they customizable past being male or female. I think they're just a deliberately generic character.

Yeah that’s a good point. Maybe avatar isn’t the best word to use but they’re not really normal characters with personalities. The fact that they came with male alts definitely adds to that feeling though.

 

[fogbadge]

WFT is in no way an avatar. Just a virtual fitness instructor. In fact the male and female trainers aren’t even treated as the same character.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah that’s a good point. Maybe avatar isn’t the best word to use but they’re not really normal characters with personalities. The fact that they came with male alts definitely adds to that feeling though.

I get it. It's all the "charm" of the Wii branding/aesthetic imo. At best, sleek. At worst, sterile.

And when the character is consciously made to be generic, I think it veers more to the latter. :/

 

[superprincess]

Either them or maybe Sheik.

That would be Mewtwo. It has been cut before, and wasn't even prioritized for Smash 4's base game. Sheik, despite the fandom's insistence, has never been stated to be a low priority character or an afterthought. Sheik is a staple of the Smash series, whether we like it or not.