Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[pitchfulprocessing]

Is Quake a part of the Doom series? I thought it was a spiritual successor kinda deal.

It's a successor series, though they have some more direct connections, Doomguy is playable in both Quake III Arena and Quake Champions.

Quake 1 is a really fantastic game that's just as important to the history of games as the original Doom, and I'd argue it's a better game as well which is saying a lot. The Quake engine is somewhere in the DNA of 3D games to this day, and stuff like the Source engine has its roots in Quake.

The real reason it should get content in Smash though is so we can get the slim chance of Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails doing a Smash remix.

 

[Guynamednelson]

We could go Captain McGun for FPS protags that don't wear green too.

At first, you may think that's necessary to call TF2 mercs Greenguns, but remember...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The idea of a character that uses mostly guns in their moveset doesn’t appeal to me, I just imagine a lot of long range spamming, but I do like the idea of Doom Slayer, because the character is very up close and personal. He’s known for throwing punches, using chainsaws, and in Doom Eternal he was given a blade attached to the side of his left arm and even a freakin sword, so he has a lot of good options for melee attacks. Not to mention the Super Shotgun is basically his signature weapon and it’s close range, so I think you could make him a close range fighter with just a few long range options.

Also I ****ing love the Doom games, and I am no dude bro

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Also I ****ing love the Doom games, and I am no dude bro

Nah bro, we're dudes bro. Just a bunch of Doom loving dudes, bro.

Like dude, only dudebro brodudes like Doom, bro.

 

[Noipoi]

I’m a dude. He’s a dude. She’s a dude.

We’re all dudes

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I’m a dude. He’s a dude. She’s a dude.

We’re all dudes

Bro. Dude and bro are like gender neutral terms, bro.

That's why everyone is my bro, dude.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I read the last 4 posts in this guy's voice

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I needed these last couple of posts lol.

 

[ninjahmos]

If we're all dudes and bros, does that also make us pals?

 

[cashregister9]

Speaking of FPS'

It's probably because I've been playing it a lot lately but V1 From Ultrakill would be a glorious smash character

even if just to get this song in the game tbh.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If we're all dudes and bros, does that also make us pals?

Dude. You can be my pal, but that doesn't make you my bro, dude.

Thankfully, as per the dudebro code.

Bro. Dude and bro are like gender neutral terms, bro.

That's why everyone is my bro, dude.

You're already my bro, dude.

 

[ninjahmos]

Since we're on the subject of FPS characters... why not Gordon Freeman?

 

[Gorgonzales]

Since we're on the subject of FPS characters... why not Gordon Freeman?

I'd love seeing Freeman, he's an important FPS character that would bring a lot of Valve's charm into Smash. I think he'd fit pretty well and the Gravity Gun would be a LOT of fun to use in a platform fighter environment, especially if you could use it on heavy items like crates and Wario's bike. Plus, hasn't Sakurai played Half-Life?

 

[Wonder Smash]

My opinion on Doom content in Smash is as follows:

Doomslayer gets added (no Quake content) - Lame uninspired cashgrab that completely breaks the tone of Smash. Boring dudebro shill pick for people who don't care about the gameplay anyways. Smash died after Melee, and Sakurai is the one who buried it.

Doomslayer gets added (has Quake content) - Iconic hype legacy pick of one of gaming's most genre-defining series with a surprising yet strong history with Nintendo, fitting seemlessly into Smash's star-studded roster and bringing an innovative new moveset into the eclectic mix of playstyles the series is known for. Genius Sakurai does it again.

Basically, it's not DOOM that you care about. It's just Quake, right?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

All this bro talk is making me laugh so much.

This is why I sometimes come back here, bros.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Hear me out!

Broforce for Smash!
(Maybe as a stage, since all the Bros. are legally-acceptable parodies of movie characters)

 

[Perkilator]

All this bro talk is making me laugh so much.

This is why I sometimes come back here, bros.

Funky Kong would be proud.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Funky Kong would be proud.

Hell yeah he would.

Now gimme five, bro.

 

[Laniv]

Did someone say BROS? The beloved 2D platformer for the Atari 800?

 

[Guynamednelson]

You're already my bro, dude.

Yeah but I'm not your dude, buddy.

 

[CannonStreak]

I have a question: What about Chibi-Robo as a playable character? Just to make sure, are his chances not good and has his time passed in terms of likelihood for getting into Smash Bros. for now?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I have a question: What about Chibi-Robo as a playable character? Just to make sure, are his chances not good and has his time passed in terms of likelihood for getting into Smash Bros. for now?

He could be a funny surprise character if Nintendo wanted to dive into actually dead IPs.

But I think he has better chances as an Assist Trophy right now.

 

[dream1ng]

My concern about M-rated series isn't that they can't be toned down while still being faithful - I believe the majority can - it's with the new ESRB stuff that necessitates omission of mentioning the actual higher rated series, both seemingly in game and in advertising, if they wouldn't just find it less of a headache to simply opt for series of a lower rating.

Of course I'm not sure how that works for series where the rating has gone up and down from M, like Halo or Ninja Gaiden, but it's something I hope doesn't inhibit the selection process.

I have a question: What about Chibi-Robo as a playable character? Just to make sure, are his chances not good and has his time passed in terms of likelihood for getting into Smash Bros. for now?

His chances are not good and his time has passed in terms of likelihood for getting into Smash Bros for now.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Quoting from Wario Bros. in the Social Thread.

Something tells me that Smash Ultimate introducing Smash Number will come back to bite them in future Smash games.

 

[Louie G.]

What about Chibi-Robo as a playable character? Just to make sure, are his chances not good and has his time passed in terms of likelihood for getting into Smash Bros. for now?

I don't think the push is hard enough right now for Chibi-Robo to be under serious consideration without a new game, remaster or something to put him back on the map. It's at least worth mentioning that he got a new Mii Costume in Ultimate, so maybe that support was visible enough to throw him a bone, but that's a category occupied similarly by Saki, Ray Mk III, Lip and so forth. Most of these guys are (VERY UNFORTUNATELY) kind of dead in the water.

Isaac is the obvious standout of this bunch, whose presence in the game exceeds any of the others and whose popularity has persisted to a far greater extent. On paper none of these characters should be in competition with one another, but rather I don't think they have much incentive to pull back toward many of these dormant series without the proper demand to confirm it's something people are still interested in. I think if someone like Chibi-Robo could get support on the level of Isaac, or had the prior success (and well, scrapped content) of a series like Rhythm Heaven, he might be someone to keep an eye on.

 

[CannonStreak]

I don't think the push is hard enough right now for Chibi-Robo to be under serious consideration without a new game, remaster or something to put him back on the map. It's at least worth mentioning that he got a new Mii Costume in Ultimate, so maybe that support was visible enough to throw him a bone, but that's a category occupied similarly by Saki, Ray Mk III, Lip and so forth. Most of these guys are (VERY UNFORTUNATELY) kind of dead in the water.

Isaac is the obvious standout of this bunch, whose presence in the game exceeds any of the others and whose popularity has persisted to a far greater extent. On paper none of these characters should be in competition with one another, but rather I don't think they have much incentive to pull back toward many of these dormant series without the proper demand to confirm it's something people are still interested in. I think if someone like Chibi-Robo could get support on the level of Isaac, or had the prior success (and well, scrapped content) of a series like Rhythm Heaven, he might be someone to keep an eye on.

My concern about M-rated series isn't that they can't be toned down while still being faithful - I believe the majority can - it's with the new ESRB stuff that necessitates omission of mentioning the actual higher rated series, both seemingly in game and in advertising, if they wouldn't just find it less of a headache to simply opt for series of a lower rating.

Of course I'm not sure how that works for series where the rating has gone up and down from M, like Halo or Ninja Gaiden, but it's something I hope doesn't inhibit the selection process.


His chances are not good and his time has passed in terms of likelihood for getting into Smash Bros for now.

He could be a funny surprise character if Nintendo wanted to dive into actually dead IPs.

But I think he has better chances as an Assist Trophy right now.

These are mostly what I was thinking. Sad, too, for I don't think Chibi-Robo is getting a new game anytime soon.

 

[dream1ng]

Quoting from Wario Bros. in the Social Thread.

I figure they're just going to abandon that system whenever there are going to be massive gaps in it. Which could be soon.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My concern about M-rated series isn't that they can't be toned down while still being faithful - I believe the majority can - it's with the new ESRB stuff that necessitates omission of mentioning the actual higher rated series, both seemingly in game and in advertising, if they wouldn't just find it less of a headache to simply opt for series of a lower rating.

Of course I'm not sure how that works for series where the rating has gone up and down from M, like Halo or Ninja Gaiden, but it's something I hope doesn't inhibit the selection process.

From what we've seen it's a non-issue.

• Fall Guys added Doom stuff that was explicitly noted and advertised as Doom stuff.
• Kazuya is from a T-rated series and didn't raise the age rating from E10+.

The Mii Costume weirdness was likely due to them being lower in priority, so instead of taking longer to put them out, they just sidestepped the issue altogether.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My concern about M-rated series isn't that they can't be toned down while still being faithful - I believe the majority can - it's with the new ESRB stuff that necessitates omission of mentioning the actual higher rated series, both seemingly in game and in advertising, if they wouldn't just find it less of a headache to simply opt for series of a lower rating.

Of course I'm not sure how that works for series where the rating has gone up and down from M, like Halo or Ninja Gaiden, but it's something I hope doesn't inhibit the selection process.

It should be noted that Smash has been E10+ since Smash 4, meaning even T-Rated stuff can be on the chopping block unless the next game purposefully aims for a higher rating. After all, the Noah and Mio spirit also had their series name blanked out despite not being M-Rated.

Also, decided to check who was at risk solely due to the ESRB and well, if Nintendo really decides to nuke every piece of content that isn't E10+ or below, up to 26 characters are at risk.

Spoiler

My logic was to go for specifically the debut game because I imagine any content associated with that game such as music, stages or items would also be at risk of being ignored because ESRB. So Lucas, Roy and R.O.B. kinda got ****ed because the first two are from Japan-only games, making them unrated by the ESRB, and R.O.B. straight up predates the ESRB by several years and never got a rerelease after it was founded so he got screwed over too.

EDIT: No idea why I put Charizard and Trainer... maybe part of me wanted to cover bases in case the Trainer was cut for non-ESRB reasons?

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I'd love seeing Freeman, he's an important FPS character that would bring a lot of Valve's charm into Smash. I think he'd fit pretty well and the Gravity Gun would be a LOT of fun to use in a platform fighter environment, especially if you could use it on heavy items like crates and Wario's bike. Plus, hasn't Sakurai played Half-Life?

He has, and praised it a lot, though it's worth noting Sakurai plays pretty much everything lol, I wouldn't use it as too much of a benchmark.


Half-Life 1 is one of my favourite games, and there's tons of shooter characters I think would be great picks. People tend to focus on Doomslayer and Chief and the like for understandable reasons, but it's a very strong genre Smash hasn't tapped into. Captain Price from Call of Duty, Marcus Fenix from Gears of War, BJ Blazkowicz from Wolfenstein, Adam Jensen from Deus Ex, any of the System Shock or Bioshock protagonists, any of the Vault Hunters from Borderlands, Agent 47 from Hitman, Lara Croft, any of the Fallout protagonists, Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, I feel like all of those could make a case for themselves as picks. Though obviously I'd require Smash going full in on embracing Western games which aren't linked with Nintendo, which would be very tough practically, so none of it is likely, I just think it's cool to discuss. Naturally the Smash community is most linked to Nintendo, and I think it took a while for discussion on what the biggest and most "important" games are to breach that bubble a bit.

 

[dream1ng]

From what we've seen it's a non-issue.

• Fall Guys added Doom stuff that was explicitly noted and advertised as Doom stuff.
• Kazuya is from a T-rated series and didn't raise the age rating from E10+.

The Mii Costume weirdness was likely due to them being lower in priority, so instead of taking longer to put them out, they just sidestepped the issue altogether.

All that stuff was 3+ years ago, more recently they weren't able to include the series names of Xenoblade, Hades, or 13 Sentinels in game or in the NA tweets about the spirits, which are the three series which exceed Ultimate's rating.

But even when we got Doom Slayer, the series itself was never actually said, in the NA broadcasts. Ironic since the series name is in the character's name, but still. More over, I haven't played Fall Guys, but in the trailer, and in these screenshots, it's doesn't actually explicitly say Doom. It says Doom Slayer, like Smash.

It's not that we can't get the content from these series... it's that there are options you wouldn't seemingly have to sidestep notable aspects to include, and that might be preferable to those making the selection. I mean it's one thing for a skin, or a spirit, it's another to add a character and not be able to say the series from which they hail.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All that stuff was 3+ years ago, more recently they weren't able to include the series names of Xenoblade, Hades, or 13 Sentinels in game or in the NA tweets about the spirits, which are the three series which exceed Ultimate's rating.

But even when we got Doom Slayer, the series itself was never actually said, in the NA broadcasts. Ironic since the series name is in the character's name, but still. More over, I haven't played Fall Guys, but in the trailer, and in these screenshots, it's doesn't actually explicitly say Doom. It says Doom Slayer, like Smash.


It's not that we can't get the content from these series... it's that there are options you wouldn't seemingly have to sidestep notable aspects to include, and that might be preferable to those making the selection. I mean it's one thing for a skin, or a spirit, it's another to add a character and not be able to say the series from which they hail.

Sooo I was lied to then? Could have sworn that trailer said "Doom" on it the last time it was posted...

 

[dream1ng]

It should be noted that Smash has been E10+ since Smash 4, meaning even T-Rated stuff can be on the chopping block unless the next game purposefully aims for a higher rating. After all, the Noah and Mio spirit also had their series name blanked out despite not being M-Rated.

Also, decided to check who was at risk solely due to the ESRB and well, if Nintendo really decides to nuke every piece of content that isn't E10+ or below, up to 26 characters are at risk.

Spoiler

View attachment 389210

My logic was to go for specifically the debut game because I imagine any content associated with that game such as music, stages or items would also be at risk of being ignored because ESRB. So Lucas, Roy and R.O.B. kinda got ****ed because the first two are from Japan-only games, making them unrated by the ESRB, and R.O.B. straight up predates the ESRB by several years and never got a rerelease after it was founded so he got screwed over too.

EDIT: No idea why I put Charizard and Trainer... maybe part of me wanted to cover bases in case the Trainer was cut for non-ESRB reasons?

I'm less concerned about T-rated stuff since Smash has been T before and if need be for the sake of expediency regarding dealing with the new ESRB rules I can see them biting the bullet and making it T again.

But Smash is never going to be M-rated. So if that inhibits being able to actually address series explicitly, I do question if that would just make options that aren't M preferable in the eyes of those who make the choices. It's not like there aren't still many options under M.

But yes, there are a few vets from M-rated series. However, I think it will be easier to deal with vets than newcomers under these parameters, as you don't need to showcase vets as extensively, and working around the actual series name won't be quite as much an ordeal. Moreover, perhaps Bayonetta can cheat the system since you can use character names (i.e. Vault Boy, Altair, etc.) and hers is the same as the series.

Also... for what it's worth... Joker and Snake don't seem like the safest returning third-parties. Not that they would inherently get cut on this basis, I doubt that, but... them returning doesn't seem assured in the first place. Oh and also idk about Persona, but Metal Gear does have titles that aren't M.

Sooo I was lied to then? Could have sworn that trailer said "Doom" on it the last time it was posted...

Other uploads might title it as Doom, but they could be from third-party channels who aren't beholden the same way Devolver themselves would be.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

All that stuff was 3+ years ago, more recently they weren't able to include the series names of Xenoblade, Hades, or 13 Sentinels in game or in the NA tweets about the spirits, which are the three series which exceed Ultimate's rating.

But even when we got Doom Slayer, the series itself was never actually said, in the NA broadcasts. Ironic since the series name is in the character's name, but still. More over, I haven't played Fall Guys, but in the trailer, and in these screenshots, it's doesn't actually explicitly say Doom. It says Doom Slayer, like Smash.

It's not that we can't get the content from these series... it's that there are options you wouldn't seemingly have to sidestep notable aspects to include, and that might be preferable to those making the selection. I mean it's one thing for a skin, or a spirit, it's another to add a character and not be able to say the series from which they hail.

Sooo I was lied to then? Could have sworn that trailer said "Doom" on it the last time it was posted...

You're thinking of this

This version outright uses the modern DOOM logo. Just looking around, it seems like the version sent to news outlets like IGN and GameSpot used the DOOM logo, while the trailers on the PlayStation and Devolver Digital channels don't.

 

[Ivander]

I think Sakurai would be willing to raise the age rating for Smash Bros if he wanted to keep characters he wants to keep in. Maybe Nintendo depending on the character. Same with any potential new characters if Sakurai and Nintendo really want to get a particular character in Smash Bros.

Speaking of new additions, some new additions to the NSO Console libraries soon would be nice.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It should be noted that Smash has been E10+ since Smash 4, meaning even T-Rated stuff can be on the chopping block unless the next game purposefully aims for a higher rating. After all, the Noah and Mio spirit also had their series name blanked out despite not being M-Rated.

Also, decided to check who was at risk solely due to the ESRB and well, if Nintendo really decides to nuke every piece of content that isn't E10+ or below, up to 26 characters are at risk.

It's worth noting that if a character's series gets the OK, then everyone from it should be as well so long as they don't name the specific game. So in reality we'd really only have to worry about the fighting game characters, the Final Fantasy characters, the Xenoblade crew, the Belmonts, maybe Hero, and...wait Ness?

looks it up

Surly they wouldn't cut Ness over this. Just on that alone I'm predicting that the next game will be rated T and all the T rated characters are safe.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I have no idea how unrated games would be handled, though considering Lucas is a part of EarthBound, and Roy is a part of Fire Emblem, I'd assume they'd be as usable as their series is. R.O.B. is a physical toy that doesn't apply here, and while he seems to be considered to be from the Robot series of games, they also kind of ignore them anyway. Even if they couldn't reference Gyromite or Stack Up by name, they could easily just make a new remix and call it R.O.B.'s theme, or just rename the current Gyromite/Stack Up medley.

This version outright uses the modern DOOM logo. Just looking around, it seems like the version sent to news outlets like IGN and GameSpot used the DOOM logo, while the trailers on the PlayStation and Devolver Digital channels don't.

Weird. Must have been an edit the news outlets made for more hype or something since I don't think DevolverDigital could legally do that.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Quoting from Wario Bros. in the Social Thread.

As much as the "fighter number" thing was a cool concept for like, one trailer, I really feel like by the time the game actually released, keeping the gimmick up just wasn't helping things in terms of looking tidy. Like, I mentioned in a profile post earlier how I'd like to see the fighter selection screen return to some sort of franchise / thematic layout rather than what it currently is, mostly because the current layout just feels really... disjointed.

It really feels like some elements of it were pitched without anyone having seen what it'd look like - for instance, the whole thing with Echo Fighters getting their base character's number with an epsilon mark next to it is cool on paper, but in practice, Dark Samus looks like a Phazon-seeping growth amongst the original 12 and just sticks out like a sore thumb.

I say this as someone who adores this kind of arbitrary classification for games like this - fighter numbers were a cool gimmick, like, once, but in practice it just comes with way too many issues to be practical.

 

[dream1ng]

I think Sakurai would be willing to raise the age rating for Smash Bros if he wanted to keep characters he wants to keep in. Maybe Nintendo depending on the character. Same with any potential new characters if Sakurai and Nintendo really want to get a particular character in Smash Bros.

Speaking of new additions, some new additions to the NSO Console libraries soon would be nice.

Tbf the age rating seems very much like Nintendo's jurisdiction, not Sakurai's. Making it T would only grant Sakurai more latitude in implementation and depiction of certain content, but ultimately it's Nintendo's call.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

maybe Hero

No, Hero would be safe because of Solo. DQ4's DS version is E10+.

 

[dream1ng]

Again, I don't think there's as much to worry about with vets. Vets don't need to be showcased as extensively - sidestepping the series name won't be as conspicuous as in a Sakurai Presents for a newcomer, or even just a newcomer trailer.

It's not that Smash can't have content from a higher-rated series, that's not what I'm saying. You wouldn't need to cut a vet over it. It's just that adding a new character when you can't mention their series might make adding a character from a series you can mention more appealing from a marketing and just... clarity perspective.