Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ninjahmos]

What if we got a Dynasty Warriors (or Samurai Warriors) character for Smash? (E.G. Zhao Yun, Xiahou Dun, Lu Bu, Yukimura Sanada, Nobunaga Oda, Mitsuhide Akechi)

Obviously, they’d have to include music from both the Dynasty and Samurai Warriors series, especially Dynasty Warriors 2&3 and Samurai Warriors 1.

I’d definitely love to hear some hard-hitting Smash remixes of Yellow Storm, The Men of Intelligence, Arena, Superior, EVE, Lu Bu's Theme, Okehazama, Anegawa, Mikatagahara, Nagashino, Osaka Castle and Tadakatsu Honda's Theme.

Oh, and maybe City of Flowers.

 

[Gengar84]

I’d definitely love to hear some hard-hitting Smash remixes of Yellow Storm, The Men of Intelligence, Arena, Superior, EVE, Lu Bu's Theme, Okehazama, Anegawa, Mikatagahara, Nagashino, Osaka Castle and Tadakatsu Honda's Theme.

Oh, and maybe City of Flowers.

Don’t forget Avenging Battle. Thats another one of my all time favorites

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[BruceTubetheScratcher]

I'm gonna do a little teaser for a series:
No OMORI reps.
That game (beautifully) covers dark topics.
For Kirby, Sakurai made that puffball, Sakurai isn't OMOCAT.
Also Dark Matter is only similar to SOMETHING because they are both one eyed creatures that are mainly black.
(No not racism)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm gonna do a little teaser for a series:
No OMORI reps.
That game (beautifully) covers dark topics.
For Kirby, Sakurai made that puffball, Sakurai isn't OMOCAT.
Also Dark Matter is only similar to SOMETHING because they are both one eyed creatures that are mainly black.
(No not racism)

Man.

This.

This is certainly a post.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm gonna do a little teaser for a series:
No OMORI reps.
That game (beautifully) covers dark topics.
For Kirby, Sakurai made that puffball, Sakurai isn't OMOCAT.
Also Dark Matter is only similar to SOMETHING because they are both one eyed creatures that are mainly black.
(No not racism)

Jesse what the **** are you talking about

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

They're the only first party franchise to ever be cut (although they were only cut due to limitations). Ice Climber as a game doesn't have the acclaim as other NES games and they aren't the most popular vet. They do provide something completely unique and they are well liked and have some competitive history.

Do you think Popo and Nana are safe?

 

[Ivander]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

They're the only first party franchise to ever be cut (although they were only cut due to limitations). Ice Climber as a game doesn't have the acclaim as other NES games and they aren't the most popular vet. They do provide something completely unique and they are well liked and have some competitive history.

Do you think Popo and Nana are safe?

I think as long as they don't have issues with future systems, they are relatively safe. Mostly because they are a pretty unique character in terms of moveset and Smash is more on the side of not dropping them. At the least, characters like them aren't dropped so lightly, as they only didn't get in Smash 4 because of the 3DS.

 

[superprincess]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

They're the only first party franchise to ever be cut (although they were only cut due to limitations). Ice Climber as a game doesn't have the acclaim as other NES games and they aren't the most popular vet. They do provide something completely unique and they are well liked and have some competitive history.

Do you think Popo and Nana are safe?

The character never really functioned as intended, they rely on cheesy desyncs and are just a primitive execution of a concept that was done better in almost every way by Rosalina & Luma. It doesn't help that their origin game is agreed upon to be kinda bad, and it also doesn't have the lasting impact that some other retro games from the same era had. They were cut before, and while I'm aware it was due to technical limitations, the game felt... fine without them. They returned in Ultimate with little fanfare, and aren't particularly popular to play.

I do enjoy playing them, their vertical combos are actually kinda reminiscent of Ice Climber (the game) and they made their hit sounds really satisfying for some reason. Smash also doesn't have many ice-benders to combat the abundance of pyromancers. IC's Up B is also one of the funniest ways to end the fight. No better way to finish off your opponent than to just throw your sister (?) at them. But I'm trying to be objective. The Ice Climbers feel expendable and while I'd be okay with them returning, there's many characters I'd rather see prioritized.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

100% safe!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They're relatively safe. They're a character that is quite popular(and was one of the most popular votes on the ballots to return), and the only actual cut reason was "literally unable to make them work".

Contrary to what people may think, the Desyncing isn't a problem. It's something that's not fixed because it's something unique that works well with them. This isn't a bug in the end. There are obviously issues with glitches that can happen, but them being able to be apart is part of their normal function. You're supposed to be able to KO Nana. Naturally that means she has to be able to be separated. So do they function as intended? Yes, yes they do.

If it's a massive cutdown, I could see them going, though. But only really then(outside of major limitations that come up). Since they're the only actual Retro character, they have a pretty unique niche in that alone. Never mind a very different team mechanic that's not found anywhere else(Nana's AI is far more advanced than the Pikmin's, and Luma seems to be even more simple, mainly copying you. I'm not sure if Pikmin or Luma have more AI among the two, though).

 

[SPEN18]

I don't think it's accurate to say Ice Climber is a bad game for its time, and it actually had more sales and interesting mechanics than some give it credit for, though it wasn't immensely impactful either. Frankly, however, it's pretty low on the list when it comes to lesser-repped franchises to retain, which may be its undoing. The likes of Duck Hunt, Wii Fit, Punch Out, Mother, ARMS, and more are simply more important to have around in my assessment.

 

[Noipoi]

Ice Climbers are kinda beloved by Smash fans. And reviled, but still.

They were only cut because of limitations, and if those limitations don't persist I bet they'll be back.

 

[Wonder Smash]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

They're the only first party franchise to ever be cut (although they were only cut due to limitations). Ice Climber as a game doesn't have the acclaim as other NES games and they aren't the most popular vet. They do provide something completely unique and they are well liked and have some competitive history.

Do you think Popo and Nana are safe?

I'm pretty sure the Ice Climbers are here to stay. Their game is actually pretty important. It was one of the best selling games on the NES, it kind of played part in the creation of Super Mario Bros. and Smash Bros kind of gave the characters and the game itself more life. So they do a great job as the series resident retro characters and with their unique gameplay, there's really no reason to cut them. Plus, fans were so happy to see them brought back for Ultimate.

 

[ninjahmos]

You know, I still find it funny how some people kept saying that they didn't want anymore "anime swordfighters" in Smash… and yet they kept asking for Dante and Sora.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You know, I still find it funny how people kept saying that they didn't want anymore "anime swordfighters" in Smash… and yet they kept asking for Dante and Sora.

Probably not the same group of people.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

I'm gonna do a little teaser for a series:
No OMORI reps.
That game (beautifully) covers dark topics.
For Kirby, Sakurai made that puffball, Sakurai isn't OMOCAT.
Also Dark Matter is only similar to SOMETHING because they are both one eyed creatures that are mainly black.
(No not racism)

Did you want to say something about Omori's odds for Smash being dependent on the 'dark tone of' Kirby games Sakurai made? I don't personally see that having anything to do with anything.

You can't also just state "Sakurai isn't OMOCAT" as if 99% of this thread knows what that means.

 

[Geno Boost]

You know, I still find it funny how some people kept saying that they didn't want anymore "anime swordfighters" in Smash… and yet they kept asking for Dante and Sora.

Correction it’s fire emblem
I don’t think people have issue with more anime sword fighter but rather fire emblem constantly getting special treatment in every new smash game with sm4sh giving them 3 newcomers and ultimate giving them 2 more when series like Zelda or Kirby doesn’t get any

 

[Stratos]

Some sword fighters I have in mind are:

Aeron (Pandora's Tower)
Zael (The Last Story)
Freyr (Zangeki no Reginleiv)
Freyja (Zangeki no Reginleiv)
Euden (Dragalia Lost)
Haohmaru (Samurai Shodown series)
Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
Siegfried Schtauffen or Nightmare (Soulcalibur series)
Adol Christin (Ys series)
Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear series)
Ragna the Bloodedge (BlazBlue series)
Protagonist (Glory of Heracles)
Heracles (Glory of Heracles)
Reiji Arisu (Namco × Capcom, Project X Zone series)
Dante (Devil May Cry series)
Solaire of Astora (Dark Souls)
Aisya (ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat)
Chrono (Chrono series)
Miriam (Bloodstained series)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment: Successor of the Earth)
Isaac (Golden Sun series)
Akira Howard (Astral Chain) (although he/she I'd say isn't)

 

[Gorgonzales]

Just gonna go out and say it.

Everyone is Here is a poison on Smash speculation and what's expected of platform fighters. A concerning amount of people are treating it like some sort of possibility (causally mentioning "if they go the Smash Ultimate route and pull an Everyone is Here" for X game, like it's just something they can do) instead of a wild exception that was only possible under specific circumstances and sacrificed a LOT to work.

I'm looking forward to when the next game cuts back on the roster and we get a better spread of content over the game as a whole. Hopefully.
(I don't think Icies are safe.)

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Just gonna go out and say it.

Everyone is Here is a poison on Smash speculation and what's expected of platform fighters. A concerning amount of people are treating it like some sort of possibility (causally mentioning "if they go the Smash Ultimate route and pull an Everyone is Here" for X game, like it's just something they can do) instead of a wild exception that was only possible under specific circumstances and sacrificed a LOT to work.

I'm looking forward to when the next game cuts back on the roster and we get a better spread of content over the game as a whole. Hopefully.
(I don't think Icies are safe.)

That's so dramatic lol.

But thinking about it, I guess I feel the same, just towards Brawl and more specifically Subspace Emissary.
That's the mode that created unreasonable expectations, since it's basically a second game inside your regular Smash game, has more cutscenes than an adventure game even though a fighting/party game isn't supposed to focus on that stuff too much, and was literally originally intended to be developed by an additional, separate studio.

To the point where Ultimate has way more content than Brawl, way better mechanics to the point that even comparing them is hilarious, was apparently developed very smoothly and has a fairly meaty single player offering, but somehow it's regarded as lackluster mostly because it doesn't have the same omega expensive, extravagant, crazy cuckoo adventure mode that Brawl had and that's always going to be ancillary to the actual meat and potatoes of the game (fighters, stages, items, multiplayer).

 

[Laniv]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

They're the only first party franchise to ever be cut (although they were only cut due to limitations). Ice Climber as a game doesn't have the acclaim as other NES games and they aren't the most popular vet. They do provide something completely unique and they are well liked and have some competitive history.

Do you think Popo and Nana are safe?

They're safe, but on the lower side of safe.

Sure, their game wasn't the best, but they've become retro icons for Smash Bros like Captain Falcon has. Plus they fill a niche, in that while we've had other duo characters, nobody does it quite like the Ice Climbers.

 

[BritishGuy54]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

They're the only first party franchise to ever be cut (although they were only cut due to limitations). Ice Climber as a game doesn't have the acclaim as other NES games and they aren't the most popular vet. They do provide something completely unique and they are well liked and have some competitive history.

Do you think Popo and Nana are safe?

I’d say they’re less safe than most people think. I think they’re one of the more likely first party characters to be cut, and I think it’s a different issue compared to Smash 4.

Smash 4’s issue was functionality. This next game is just going to have to scale down after Ultimate.

 

[Oracle Link]

Ive tried to make bandana waddle dee alts but no ten horse get me to change color via gimp again!!!
Its so annoying doesnt recognize the Colors right its just ARRRRGH! Im Done im not wasting time on this!
If making 1 Pallete Takes as much time as one comic page im rather working on the comic!

So if anyone likes making fun palletes for characters i Gladly offer suggestions but im not gonna do this @*#/! Again!

 

[Pupp135]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

They're the only first party franchise to ever be cut (although they were only cut due to limitations). Ice Climber as a game doesn't have the acclaim as other NES games and they aren't the most popular vet. They do provide something completely unique and they are well liked and have some competitive history.

Do you think Popo and Nana are safe?

While Ice Climber is nearly a 40-year-old game, I think they still have a decent chance of returning (they’re not immune like the Original 8, but I don’t think they’re one of the first to go either) as the climbers have a really unique gimmick, and they were only cut before because of technical limitations.

 

[Will]

So, how safe do you think the Ice Climbers are?

I think in a situation where half the roster was cut or whatever yall are doomposting, I’d think they’d survive.

Who else is a dedicated cyrokinetic in Smash?

 

[HyperSomari64]

RE: Ice Climbers
I'm fine with they getting cut. That ""franchise"" (only one game) doesn't have a future.
Unless Nintendo reveals a new IC game after, making my post obsolete.

RE:Anime Swordsman
We no longer call them like that, that term is very antiquated. Kids these days now refer to them as "Swordguy McJRPGdude" :v.

Out of jokes, Neptune from Hyperdimension Neptunia would be a fun pick. Need a character that breaks the 4th wall.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Ive tried to make bandana waddle dee alts but no ten horse get me to change color via gimp again!!!
Its so annoying doesnt recognize the Colors right its just ARRRRGH! Im Done im not wasting time on this!
If making 1 Pallete Takes as much time as one comic page im rather working on the comic!

So if anyone likes making fun palletes for characters i Gladly offer suggestions but im not gonna do this @*#/! Again!

it’s actually very easy.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I would say Icies are probably fairly safe unless the next Smash really have like 40+ cuts. Compare to the other retro characters, I feel like Game & Watch and Duck hunt would be higher priority, because the first one is more important historically and the second original game is much popular than Ice climbers original game. That being said, I do think Icies would be higher priority than ROB because he's a weird case where he doesn't even represent really a specific game, and the fact that his "franchise" never got a stage despite being here for 3 games now makes me think that he was always a second thought on the roster.

 

[Oracle Link]

it’s actually very easy.

I looked at youtube tutorials and its still super annoying!
Perhaps another time!

BTW you wanna know one of my main reasons for talking so much about zelda and kirby characters for smash?
I just really want to be able to tell stories in afighting game format with both of those! I guess that doesnt make sense?
Okay how do i explain this the best i want to have themed fights based on an entire zelda journey (From Link meeting zelda up to the final battle with ganon)
Thats sadly impossible in smash because i dont have Gorons, Zoras, Impa and the like to make a fun journey!
So if i ask for zelda characters its more that i wanna fight against them and less play as them!
So a zelda Smash (or something pretty similar) would be even better for my case!

And when it comes to kirby while kirby fighters 2 exists it has a grand total of 6 unique characters!
So if we could get a kirby fighting game with the star allies roster i would cry for joy:

Just replace Normal Kirby with smash, include the allies as alts, and perhaps throw elfilin, galacta knight or someone else in and im set! ah and the costume masks from RTDL DX!

Dont get me wrong the next smash should still have:
Link, Toon Link, Zelda, a reworked Ganondorf and impa
aswell as
Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight and Bandana dee
as those franchises (even with less characters) still desrve some love!
AND I ACTUALLY Play as toon link!

So Franchise specific smash games (or casual fighting games) have a place as weird as it sounds!
And i genuinly hope we get a Kirby fighters with a good roster because i actually like the gameplay but the lack of storytelling potential hurts for me personally!

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I looked at youtube tutorials and its still super annoying!
Perhaps another time!

I mean, I made Bandana Waddle Dee alts for my project and they took...one hour or so? Even at max size. They are shrunk down for Smashboards

 

[ninjahmos]

If the Doom Slayer (Doomguy) ever makes it into Smash… we need a remix of At Doom's Gate (E1M1)

Another Bethesda rep that I think would be interesting is the Dragonborn from Skyrim. They’d have to include music from the Elder Scrolls series, especially Morrowind, Oblivion AND Skyrim.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

If the Doom Slayer (Doomguy) ever makes it into Smash… we need a remix of At Doom's Gate (E1M1)

Another Bethesda rep that I think would be interesting is the Dragonborn from Skyrim. They’d have to include music from the Elder Scrolls series, especially Morrowind, Oblivion AND Skyrim.

Doom music is such a natural fit for the game that I'm honestly disappointed that they didn't give one with the Doom slayer mii costume. It's kind of shame that they only did the music thing for 3 costume because a lot of them had potential for cool music like Dante or Lloyd.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Daytona USA ever gets into Smash somehow, they should not only use music from the Daytona USA series, but also music from OutRun and Hang-On. And maybe the SEGA Rally series.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Just gonna go out and say it.

Everyone is Here is a poison on Smash speculation and what's expected of platform fighters. A concerning amount of people are treating it like some sort of possibility (causally mentioning "if they go the Smash Ultimate route and pull an Everyone is Here" for X game, like it's just something they can do) instead of a wild exception that was only possible under specific circumstances and sacrificed a LOT to work.

I'm looking forward to when the next game cuts back on the roster and we get a better spread of content over the game as a whole. Hopefully.
(I don't think Icies are safe.)

I think the bit here is just of a joke, well at least here.

Still, when Smash 6 comes an entire slate of cuts rolls in, the illusion falls and people realize their favorites aren't safe, wonder what would the reaction would be.

I still think my villian idea would be perfect for this thing.

 

[superprincess]

I'm sure this has been discussed before I joined this thread but I'd like to hear y'all's opinions on something.

Most speculators in the Smash community really don't seem to understand what a reboot is. I see a lot of "reboot" roster suggestions with like, forty to sixty fighters. And that's just not how that works? You can't "reboot" the franchise and retain fifty or so characters while adding new ones on top. If there was ever a reboot, I doubt they'd go with a "middle of the road" approach and just keep whatever remnants there would be of past Smash Bros.

What I'm basically saying is... Smash should either keep going where it left off, with as little cuts as possible, or go completely scorched earth and start from the ground up, like SF6 and MK1. The middle of the road approach would just be unremarkable because it would just be Smash 4/Ultimate-tier content (60ish fighters, lots of stages presumably, lacking singleplayer modes, and a general lack of new content overall) without what made those games special: the fact that they were even bigger than before. Doing a "reboot" (which is just a regressive sequel going by Smash fans' definition) but not committing to the idea just doesn't seem appealing. Either keep building atop the already existing formula or flip it completely on its head.

I'm imagining a "Smash reboot" with like... 18 characters. That's a pitiful amount compared to Ultimate but imagine all the other content that could be included. Basically a "what if" scenario where Smash was first made in 2024 with no prior past.

I'm aware this is unrealistic and that most people would rather Smash continues with its "quantity comes first" approach, but yeah.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The big question with a reboot is how the remaining fighters themselves would change. The easiest semi-justification for a culling of 15-30 characters would be that the veterans still there would feel different enough that a diminished roster would hypothetically sting far less. One might miss a Pirahna Plant but be reasonably pleased with the new version of Samus just as an example. That would live up to the concept of a reboot, fundamentally shifting major pillars of Smash as part of a new paradigm.

 

[Perkilator]

I think even in a case where there are significant cuts, Sakurai would want to keep as many characters as possible, especially some of the clones/Echo Fighters since they’re easier to develop than a fully unique fighter.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I'm sure this has been discussed before I joined this thread but I'd like to here y'all's opinions on something.

Most speculators in the Smash community really don't seem to understand what a reboot is. I see a lot of "reboot" roster suggestions with like, forty to sixty fighters. And that's just not how that works? You can't "reboot" the franchise and retain fifty or so characters while adding new ones on top. If there was ever a reboot, I doubt they'd go with a "middle of the road" approach and just keep whatever remnants there would be of past Smash Bros.

What I'm basically saying is... Smash should either keep going where it left off, with as little cuts as possible, or go completely scorched earth and start from the ground up, like SF6 and MK1. The middle of the road approach would just be unremarkable because it would just be Smash 4/Ultimate-tier content (60ish fighters, lots of stages presumably, lacking singleplayer modes, and a general lack of new content overall) without what made those games special: the fact that they were even bigger than before. Doing a "reboot" (which is just a regressive sequel going by Smash fans' definition) but not committing to the idea just doesn't seem appealing. Either keep building atop the already existing formula or flip it completely on its head.

I'm imagining a "Smash reboot" with like... 18 characters. That's a pitiful amount compared to Ultimate but imagine all the other content that could be included. Basically a "what if" scenario where Smash was first made in 2024 with no prior past.

I'm aware this is unrealistic and that most people would rather Smash continues with its "quantity comes first" approach, but yeah.

I'd want a reboot with 35-ish unique characters and all new stages, in addition to a lot of new modes/ways to play, a mechanic shake-up like assists maybe, and (here's the big one) a full-fledged campaign mode surpassing Subspace. A campaign with actual dialogue and good character interaction, making good use of the crossover aspect with lots of cutscenes. If there was ever a time to do one, it'd be the time when Smash does a reset and the roster is as small as ever.

 

[ninjahmos]

When it comes to ninja-like characters in Smash, a lot of people would ask for Ryu Hayabusa. Hayabusa would be pretty cool, but I kind of would also like to see Joe Musashi (Shinobi) and Strider Hiryu in Smash as well.

On a mostly unrelated note, I also think Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins) would be perfect for Smash

 

[Louie G.]

The big question with a reboot is how the remaining fighters themselves would change.

And really you can only change a Smash character so much until it feels arbitrary. We can nitpick of course but I do feel like most of the movesets are basically doing their job of representing an established character’s abilities. Someone like Samus has earned an adjustment by now but she’s definitely still gonna have a Charge Shot, Missiles, Screw Attack and Bombs. She’ll still be Smash’s signature zoner, etc.

Compared to I unno, Guilty Gear Strive. Where they just outright redesign or rework characters however they feel like because they’re fully original. Smash doesn’t have that wiggle room (outside of like Fox, Falcon or Marth) and I can’t really imagine it being worth a massive “reboot” tier roster cut unless we’re really changing the way the game works. If we got a “traditional” 2D Smash then I would be fully on board since everyone would feel fresh in that new format anyway. Otherwise I’ve yet to hear a convincing reason for why Smash would ever need to dip below like, 40 characters in the most dire scenario.