ninjahmos
Smash Lord
They should definitely make a stage based on Studiopolis Zone. I’m kind of surprised they didn’t add it in Ultimate.
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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NonSpecificGuy
- Start date
Noipoi
Howdy!
Ultimate, at least for base game, added the bare minimum in regards to new stages.
Which is understandable, but still disappointing.
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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The only issue i can think of with Kiryu is that i cant think of what they would give him for an Up+B move.
ninjahmos
Smash Lord
You know what I think would be a pretty cool feature for Smash? What if they let you change the weather of the stages?
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Ohhh, kind of like Sonic R for the PC, right?
So, how would that work for indoor stages?
dream1ng
Smash Champion
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Playability not being impossible doesn't change that they'd be lucky just to get costumes.
Schnee117
Too Majestic for Gender
ninjahmos
Smash Lord
If Phantasy Star Online ever got into Smash, they’d not only have to include music from the PSO series, especially The Whole New World, but also music from the original Phantasy Star series. And maybe the songs from Burning Rangers.
Wonder Smash
Smash Champion
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It's not about not being impossible. If a case can made that they can be playable characters, then no, they won't be lucky to "just get costumes". They could very well get more than that.
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YeppersPeppers
Smash Ace
All I need is a hard as hell arrangement of Laughter from Phantasy Star IV and I'm good.
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Gengar84
Smash Hero
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Yeah, like I mentioned before, I think many people are too quick to discount retro characters from potential newcomers. I think it’s important to capture the history of gaming as a whole and not exclusively what’s currently relevant at the time. Double Dragon was pretty huge on the NES so I think they’re a reasonable option for a retro rep.
Gorgonzales
Smash Lord
I hope they stop doing this in the next game; by "this", I mean retro stages that retain their original appearance (and in some cases, 1:1 layout).
It's a cool novelty but in my opinion the charm has almost completely worn off, now that we have a large number of them and they honestly don't feel like anything special. It's even worse if the layout is ported over directly (Mario Bros., 75m, Dreamland GB) because... why would you do that? Direct translations of layouts from other platformers into Smash do not work. You have to take some liberties or else it ends up being a very not-fun time.
I want retro stages, but I want their visuals and assets to be modernized just like the retro characters (Icies, Duck Hunt, ROB) are. It brings the retro stuff to the same level as the modern stuff which is awesome. They lead to much more visually distinct and memorable stages, these are some of my favorite examples. Stuff like Fountain of Dreams being translated into a dreamlike, ethereal palace and the Balloon Fight fish being translated into a vicious monster with bloodshot eyes is the kind of stuff I live for.
Imagine a DK stage based on 25m but with a layout kind of resembling it (say, a main platform for the base and three long soft platforms stacked one above another and tilted at angles) instead of literally being the exact layout of 25m. And the visuals are updated with details like paint chipping on the metallic girders, and maybe even a modernized take on DK's original design. That would be so cool!
(Credit for that last pic goes to Curiomatic.)
But no, instead we get a literal 75m with no changes to its layout to compensate for the fact that it's in a game where most of the cast isn't designed to platform around. No changes to its visuals either. Altogether, you end up with a stage that's only remembered for how bad it is.
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CapitaineCrash
Smash Champion
Peronally I disagree. I mean, sure Pac-land is awful, and 75m is pretty bad (I do think there's potential with the concept and a 25m or 50m would have worked better), but Balloon fight and Mushroom kingdom 2 aren't that bad imo. Dream land gb I think it has some potential if the stages was bigger.View attachment 387136View attachment 387140
View attachment 387138View attachment 387139
I hope they stop doing this in the next game; by "this", I mean retro stages that retain their original appearance (and in some cases, 1:1 layout).
It's a cool novelty but in my opinion the charm has almost completely worn off, now that we have a large number of them and they honestly don't feel like anything special. It's even worse if the layout is ported over directly (Mario Bros., 75m, Dreamland GB) because... why would you do that? Direct translations of layouts from other platformers into Smash do not work. You have to take some liberties or else it ends up being a very not-fun time.
I want retro stages, but I want their visuals and assets to be modernized just like the retro characters (Icies, Duck Hunt, ROB) are. It brings the retro stuff to the same level as the modern stuff which is awesome. They lead to much more visually distinct and memorable stages, these are some of my favorite examples. Stuff like Fountain of Dreams being translated into a dreamlike, ethereal palace and the Balloon Fight fish being translated into a vicious monster with bloodshot eyes is the kind of stuff I live for.
Imagine a DK stage based on 25m but with a layout kind of resembling it (say, a main platform for the base and three long soft platforms stacked one above another and tilted at angles) instead of literally being the exact layout of 25m. And the visuals are updated with details like paint chipping on the metallic girders, and maybe even a modernized take on DK's original design. That would be so cool!
View attachment 387141View attachment 387142
(Credit for that last pic goes to Curiomatic.)
But no, instead we get a literal 75m with no changes to its layout to compensate for the fact that it's in a game where most of the cast isn't designed to platform around. No changes to its visuals either. Altogether, you end up with a stage that's only remembered for how bad it is.
I think it's a case by case basis and some stages I don't mind keeping the retro look. Magicant I agree loks gorgoeus for example, and they actually strikes a good balance with modernised and retro since they kept the 2d sprites in the background and 2d flying man. But in other case like Summit, I actually think the modernisation doesn't work that well, it just make the stage looks like a very generic ice level instead of something from Ice cimbers and I think that Melee's Icicle mountain was a way better take for a Ice climbers stage. Another modernisation I don't like is the Mushroomy kingdom, which is supposed to look like the kingdom was abandonned or something, I just think the concept is dumb and it doesn't fit neither Smash bros style, nor the Mario art style.
RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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Except for a small part of Paper Mario.
Wonder Smash
Smash Champion
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They wouldn't even be considered retro anyway. Their most recent game (Double Dragon Gaiden) came out just a year ago and, prior to Ultimate, they had two other games (Double Dragon Neon and 4), so it's a pretty active series.
It's a win-win for me, though. Whether it's a just Double Dragon, or River City, or both, I'd be super happy. But as you said, Double Dragon is such a historically significant series that it's very strange to act like their best chances for an appearance in Smash are just Mii costumes.
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Gengar84
Smash Hero
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Yeah, I guess I have a different definition of retro but you make a good point. For me, a retro character is someone whose popularity was much higher many years ago, not that they never get games anymore. So I’d consider the Battletoads, Bill Rizer, Double Dragon, and other similar characters retro even though they’ve all had games recently.
GoldenYuiitusin
Smash Lord
The gap between Ice Climber and Melee was roughly 15 years.
The gap between Wario Land Shake It and now is roughly 15 years.
Shake King is now eligible as a "retro character".
The gap between Wario Land Shake It and now is roughly 15 years.
Shake King is now eligible as a "retro character".
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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I’ve never played the game but no complaints here. Shake King has a fun design.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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I completely agree. Same with ATs. Part of Smash's charm is seeing these classic video game characters and places reimagined in modern graphics. Sometimes for the first time ever.
What it boils down to is this:
I think the odds of getting TWO sets of Technos brawler characters as Fighters is extremely unlikely. Especially since the two series constantly overlap now.
And Kunio and Riki are more likely to be chosen because:
1. Kunio is the original game
2. River City has WAY more games than Double Dragon
3. Kunio is more popular in Japan
4. Kunio/Riki have a much broader moveset potential than Billy/Jimmy
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BruceTubetheScratcher
Smash Rookie
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I mean they can do this if they want a new Flat Zone, Pictochat, or something else that would probably have its charm be absolutely killed in the most gruesome way possible.
But sometimes you can modernize it without getting into more hot water than that one Mario Party minigame that caused severe damage to the hand.
TLDR (Somehow): If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if it is, fix it before the FBI shows up.
HyperSomari64
Smash Master
If the Wii is Retro now, that means PS3 and XB360 are also Retro too.
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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I feel so old lol. To me, retro is N64 at the latest. Its so weird to think about the Wii as retro but GoldenYuiitusin made a good point with the timing of Ice Climbers.
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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I will not stand for Mushroom Kingdom 2 slander.View attachment 387136View attachment 387140
View attachment 387138View attachment 387139
I hope they stop doing this in the next game; by "this", I mean retro stages that retain their original appearance (and in some cases, 1:1 layout).
It's a cool novelty but in my opinion the charm has almost completely worn off, now that we have a large number of them and they honestly don't feel like anything special. It's even worse if the layout is ported over directly (Mario Bros., 75m, Dreamland GB) because... why would you do that? Direct translations of layouts from other platformers into Smash do not work. You have to take some liberties or else it ends up being a very not-fun time.
I want retro stages, but I want their visuals and assets to be modernized just like the retro characters (Icies, Duck Hunt, ROB) are. It brings the retro stuff to the same level as the modern stuff which is awesome. They lead to much more visually distinct and memorable stages, these are some of my favorite examples. Stuff like Fountain of Dreams being translated into a dreamlike, ethereal palace and the Balloon Fight fish being translated into a vicious monster with bloodshot eyes is the kind of stuff I live for.
Imagine a DK stage based on 25m but with a layout kind of resembling it (say, a main platform for the base and three long soft platforms stacked one above another and tilted at angles) instead of literally being the exact layout of 25m. And the visuals are updated with details like paint chipping on the metallic girders, and maybe even a modernized take on DK's original design. That would be so cool!
View attachment 387141View attachment 387142
(Credit for that last pic goes to Curiomatic.)
But no, instead we get a literal 75m with no changes to its layout to compensate for the fact that it's in a game where most of the cast isn't designed to platform around. No changes to its visuals either. Altogether, you end up with a stage that's only remembered for how bad it is.
Love that stage.
I mean, yeah the 360 is older than both of them so of course it's retro.
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BruceTubetheScratcher
Smash Rookie
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| Name | Nostalgia | |
| Wii | Not really, Wii U is. | |
| PS3 | Kinda, think I watched Star Wars in my room with it. | |
| Xbox 360 | Y E S . (I think that was the console I played my first LEGO Star Wars game on.) |  |
ninjahmos
Smash Lord
What if we got a Dynasty Warriors (or Samurai Warriors) character for Smash? (E.G. Zhao Yun, Xiahou Dun, Lu Bu, Yukimura Sanada, Nobunaga Oda, Mitsuhide Akechi)
Obviously, they’d have to include music from both the Dynasty and Samurai Warriors series, especially Dynasty Warriors 2&3 and Samurai Warriors 1.
Obviously, they’d have to include music from both the Dynasty and Samurai Warriors series, especially Dynasty Warriors 2&3 and Samurai Warriors 1.
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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I’d love that. I think the Warriors games have been big enough that they’re more than deserving of a character. Not to mention the several Nintendo Warriors spin-offs and others with properties already in Smash. My absolute favorite Warriors characters are Gan Ning, Zhu Rong, Xiahou Dun, Kotaro Fuma, and Ina but I’d go for Lu Bu for a Smash rep. He’s just so iconic and intimidating. I always love to see more villains in Smash and he’d be a really unique one.
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Wonder Smash
Smash Champion
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But at the same time, Double Dragon does have more name recognition and the bigger influence. Even River City have features that first started in Double Dragon.
I don't think it'd be a problem to have two sets of Techno brawler characters if they're iconic enough. It's kind of like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest with how important they both are to RPGs.
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Geno Boost
Smash Master
There is only few which is fine I think some do like they keep them retro except for balloon fight stage which I am interested to see how they will modernize that series however as for most smash 64 stages that were added to ultimate they still look outdated which I think updating smash 64 stages should be prioritized moreView attachment 387136View attachment 387140
View attachment 387138View attachment 387139
I hope they stop doing this in the next game; by "this", I mean retro stages that retain their original appearance (and in some cases, 1:1 layout).
It's a cool novelty but in my opinion the charm has almost completely worn off, now that we have a large number of them and they honestly don't feel like anything special. It's even worse if the layout is ported over directly (Mario Bros., 75m, Dreamland GB) because... why would you do that? Direct translations of layouts from other platformers into Smash do not work. You have to take some liberties or else it ends up being a very not-fun time.
I want retro stages, but I want their visuals and assets to be modernized just like the retro characters (Icies, Duck Hunt, ROB) are. It brings the retro stuff to the same level as the modern stuff which is awesome. They lead to much more visually distinct and memorable stages, these are some of my favorite examples. Stuff like Fountain of Dreams being translated into a dreamlike, ethereal palace and the Balloon Fight fish being translated into a vicious monster with bloodshot eyes is the kind of stuff I live for.
Imagine a DK stage based on 25m but with a layout kind of resembling it (say, a main platform for the base and three long soft platforms stacked one above another and tilted at angles) instead of literally being the exact layout of 25m. And the visuals are updated with details like paint chipping on the metallic girders, and maybe even a modernized take on DK's original design. That would be so cool!
View attachment 387141View attachment 387142
(Credit for that last pic goes to Curiomatic.)
But no, instead we get a literal 75m with no changes to its layout to compensate for the fact that it's in a game where most of the cast isn't designed to platform around. No changes to its visuals either. Altogether, you end up with a stage that's only remembered for how bad it is.
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Wonder Smash
Smash Champion
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- Messages
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I don't know about that. I like the retro look. It gives off the impression that you really are experiencing a past era in gaming, a classic era that many fans remember and in some ways, can still experience. For a series that's supposed to be either about Nintendo history or video game history, this is one of the best ways to show this. It's just mix of the past and present. Plus, I personally love seeing characters in an NES game, or a Game Boy screen, especially when they either didn't exist during that era (Sora, Joker, Shulk) or did but were never on those consoles during that era (Sonic).View attachment 387136View attachment 387140
View attachment 387138View attachment 387139
I hope they stop doing this in the next game; by "this", I mean retro stages that retain their original appearance (and in some cases, 1:1 layout).
It's a cool novelty but in my opinion the charm has almost completely worn off, now that we have a large number of them and they honestly don't feel like anything special. It's even worse if the layout is ported over directly (Mario Bros., 75m, Dreamland GB) because... why would you do that? Direct translations of layouts from other platformers into Smash do not work. You have to take some liberties or else it ends up being a very not-fun time.
I want retro stages, but I want their visuals and assets to be modernized just like the retro characters (Icies, Duck Hunt, ROB) are. It brings the retro stuff to the same level as the modern stuff which is awesome. They lead to much more visually distinct and memorable stages, these are some of my favorite examples. Stuff like Fountain of Dreams being translated into a dreamlike, ethereal palace and the Balloon Fight fish being translated into a vicious monster with bloodshot eyes is the kind of stuff I live for.
Imagine a DK stage based on 25m but with a layout kind of resembling it (say, a main platform for the base and three long soft platforms stacked one above another and tilted at angles) instead of literally being the exact layout of 25m. And the visuals are updated with details like paint chipping on the metallic girders, and maybe even a modernized take on DK's original design. That would be so cool!
View attachment 387141View attachment 387142
(Credit for that last pic goes to Curiomatic.)
But no, instead we get a literal 75m with no changes to its layout to compensate for the fact that it's in a game where most of the cast isn't designed to platform around. No changes to its visuals either. Altogether, you end up with a stage that's only remembered for how bad it is.
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Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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- 10,889
We technically already have several. Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Shiek, Marth, Chrom, Lucina, Robin, Corrin, Byleth and Joker.
ninjahmos
Smash Lord
OK, so just out of curiosity…
Are popularity and relevancy really such big factors for Smash newcomers?
Are popularity and relevancy really such big factors for Smash newcomers?
GoldenYuiitusin
Smash Lord
I do think they could be, especially relevancy.
However, I feel some fans exaggerate their importance, especially in regard to that to certain characters who have yet to appear in Smash or are in Smash but have not appeared in the latest game.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
By the way i noticed a big lack of something!?
Were the heck are the chu chus from windwaker in smash:
They are one of the most iconic zelda enemy designs! And chu chus appear in a lot of games yet these enemys got no love!
I imagine if they appeared as an item (in diffrent colors) and could be thrown or sliced to get jelly that you canm heal yourself with!
Or just make them a smash run enemy!
Were the heck are the chu chus from windwaker in smash:
They are one of the most iconic zelda enemy designs! And chu chus appear in a lot of games yet these enemys got no love!
I imagine if they appeared as an item (in diffrent colors) and could be thrown or sliced to get jelly that you canm heal yourself with!
Or just make them a smash run enemy!
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Noipoi
Howdy!
Absolutely yes.
Now it’s not the only factor that could lead to someone’s inclusion. Sometimes it’s outstanding fan demand, sometimes it’s Sakurai having a fun idea or straight up indulging in his own fandom for once. But popularity and relevance are huge boosts for any Smash hopeful.
CapitaineCrash
Smash Champion
Yes it is. Here's an actual quote from Sakurai on Fire emblem characters in Smash 4:
Interviewer: In Smash for 3DS/ Wii U, there are far more Fire Emblem characters on the roster than in previous games. How did you go about the selection process for these characters?
Sakurai: It really depends on the situation. For example, Roy and Robin were included for completely different reasons. It also depends on luck, of course. Industry trends around the time when development begins is a pretty big factor. I started development on Smash for 3DS/ Wii U right after I’d wrapped up Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Fire Emblem Awakening was released one month after Uprising. So what’s popular around the time when I begin designing the game is important. Characters are almost never added after I’ve completed the project plan for Smash.
(...)
Interviewer: But that means Awakening’s release schedule was pretty fortuitous.
Sakurai: Yes, that was the case. For example, if Awakening was released six months later, Robin may not have made it in, and if it was six months early, they might not have even been considered.
Interviewer: Was Lucina in a similar situation?
Sakurai: Yes, that applies to Lucina as well.
Source of the interview
6 months early…
Why does this make me think that if Smash Bros. does come in the following years, which it will, this will make it too long to the point that Geno won’t be relevant to include into the next Smash Bros.?
Not that I am complaining, I am just asking.
CapitaineCrash
Smash Champion
Well, I would add that the "6 months" thing is probably not an rule too take too seriously, because we know characters can be add way past that. I mean, the same game where this quotes come from add Duck hunt of all characters. And we know popular characters such as Banjo in Ultimate can get in despite not being relevant. So I don't think this situation applies to much to Geno, who has a huge demand.
I think the 6 months thing apply more to "less popular character". Stuff like Alear for example would probably miss the boat if the next Smash hasn't already started development. But if the character has high demand or Sakurai likes the idea like Duck hunt, he could still do it.
Less popular character, does that include newer characters, by any chance?
Anyway, I also thought of King K. Rool, who was not relevant before Ultimate, but was popular.
I was not that worried about Geno, nor would I have thrown a fit over it. Still, thanks for explaining!