Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[JOJONumber691]

Smash Run is amazing! However, a Smash Bros. Metroidvania would be incredible!

 

[kirbsmash]

Let's be real, SSE isn't the most best in term of gameplay, some levels are bluntly unfair. There can be too much mooks in your faces. Some of it felt rushed.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Wait, then it makes no sense at all. It would be way better to have a globally popular series than one that is only popular in a single region.

A more obscure series would likely alienate the audience outside its influence zone. You'd be giving people more reasons to be pissed, not less.

Like I said, I dunno much about DFO, but if we did get a character from it, it's way more likely they would get in on their own merits, rather than to "combat a boycott".

Yeah, which Creator has. Being a Pure Magic User with No Sword. is an extremely interesting concept. Alongside its Role in South Asian Gaming and we get a character who has their own Merits. Not to discredit League, I think League would make the most sense personally, I'm just saying that there's more than just the Mainstream when it comes to options.

 

[osby]

WoL becomes more impressive when you remember it was practically a last resort when the giant fighter and stage roster ate up all the development time. It doesn't have an amazing story or gameplay but it's pretty effective at being an entertaining single-player mode imo. Plus, its opening is nothing short of iconic.

Also, unpopular opinion but I enjoyed playing SSE, aside from Great Maze.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Makes more sense than a shooter that's seen better days tbh.


Warcraft, and Starcraft, are Blizzard's two BIG founding franchises, with Diablo being slightly below those two, but still a titan in its own right.

Overwatch got people HYPED AS HELL, and nowadays, the playerbase is a shell of its former self that barely reaches big numbers on Twitch for Esports viewership.



Warcraft made WoW, and WoW pretty much revolutionized the MMO genre by opening it up to a more casual market, can't really say many games had as big of an impact on society itself than WoW did in its prime. Back when WoW came out, it really was something like the world had never seen before.

No doubt that Warcraft/Starcraft/Diablo are the best franchises to represent Blizzard's legacy and they're still pretty popular today, Overwatch on the other hand is by far their most 'active' franchise right now.

They reported having more than 50 million players last year at Blizzcon 2019 so even if some people are claiming that 'Overwatch is dead/dying', it's really not, it's still very much alive. At some point, they had a slow decrease in players and in general interest for OW as an esport. From what i understand, the playerbase seem to have fully recovered from it but the competitive/esport side not so much. It's still relatively popular as an esport tho especially in South Korea. Point is, it has seen better days like you said but it's still very popular nonetheless.

I got a feeling that if Blizzard would want to 'push' one of its franchises via a rep. in Smash it would be Overwatch. I just feel like it would be the smartest move marketing wise, not only from Blizzard but also from Nintendo (to capitalize on Overwatch current popularity). Also, not that all DLC fighters need to promote something (obviously) but OW2 could realistically be released in 2021 so the timing could be good for a OW2 / Smash Fighters Pass 2 cross-promotion.

Personally i'd be hyped for any Blizzard rep* in Smash, always been a big fan of their games (Starcraft 2 in particular) so whether they'd want to go for a 'legacy pick', a 'recency pick' or whatever...

*Yes, even the Lost Vikings

 

[JOJONumber691]

Let's be real, SSE isn't the most best in term of gameplay, some levels are bluntly unfair. There can be too much mooks in your faces. Some of it felt rushed.

it was.

 

[kirbsmash]

Also, unpopular opinion but I enjoyed playing SSE, aside from Great Maze.

How is that unpopular?

it was.

I mean, good for you, but SSE have flaws of it's own that couldn't be ignored, just like WOL. I don't hate it, but I actually like Melee's mode the best out of the 3.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Hot take but I like WOL wayyy more than Subspace Emissary. Don't get me wrong... Subspace is pretty fun for the cutscenes... but that's the thing. The cutscenes are really the only draw to the mode(for me anyway), and the actual mode itself is super boring and tedious platforming with the same 5 enemies copypasted every 2 seconds. In short; it's fun to watch, not fun to play. I feel WOL strikes a better balance between the two, what with how there's still somewhat of a story(but told in a bit more subtle way) while at the same time traveling the newborn world is really fun, save for a couple dozen annoying battles here and there.

Agreed. I see a lot of affection for the story cutscenes and bosses of SSE, and that feels justified, but my dominant memory of it is a lot of tedium when actually playing it. The experience is especially disappointing given Sakurai's work on Kirby that Subspace Emissary ends up feeling so underwhelming as a platforming beat em up. That's not even getting into settings that feel bland and enemies that while well memorably designed, largely had nothing to do with any of the Nintendo franchises the characters came from.

World of Light had its issues certainly, but it feels like it plays to Smash's strengths far more.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think every Smash game has its own special game mode that is pretty good. Melee’s Adventure Mode was short but sweet, Brawl with SSE is my favorite for being a platforming beat-em-up basically with some sick cutscenes, 3DS had a fun little distraction with Smash Run even though I wish it had been a game mode where you could see and fight the other players on it, and WoL is impressive even if it is just Event Mode with an over world and Stickers.

Yeah, you notice I skipped one. That’s because I hated Smash Tour. I think it’s easily the weakest extra mode of all of them and since it and Smash Run was put in to replace any kind of Adventure and Story mode... yeah it’s rough.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Big oof kirbsmash. There's a rule on this thread that you shouldn't post two messages in a row. Big oof. BIG OOF!

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, which Creator has. Being a Pure Magic User with No Sword. is an extremely interesting concept.

Did somebody say pure magic user?

cough Young Wizard for smash cough

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't like World of Light at all. The world map is uninteresting, I find myself quitting very early, very often because the battles are just a chore to go through and it's artificially long. Sakurai is great at making other game modes like Classic, Home-Run Contest, Break the targets but directing a good adventure mode is not one of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Big oof kirbsmash. There's a rule on this thread that you shouldn't post two messages in a row. Big oof. BIG OOF!

I dunno about you but I think he already knows the rules. No need to get aggressive over it. That's what the mods are for

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I do think an ideal story mode can be made from the various bits of the ones we've had.

Get the franchise settings (with select platforming segments) from Adventure Mode, the cutscenes of a Subspace Emissary, the actual legacy enemies from a Smash Run, and the gimmick battle emphasis (but not monopoly) of a World of Light. All those elements in one mode with real scope and I think you'd have something.

 

[kirbsmash]

I dunno about you but I think he already knows the rules. No need to get aggressive over it. That's what the mods are for

I thought that people have posted before me so I accidentally posted in a row because I assumed that. My bad honestly.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't like World of Light at all. The world map is uninteresting, I find myself quitting very early, very often because the battles are just a chore to go through and it's artificially long. Sakurai is great at making other game modes like Classic, Home-Run Contest, Break the targets but directing a good adventure mode is not one of them.

Personally I found the world map to be just fine. I'll give you the length part though, for a story mode it's really long.

 

[PeridotGX]

the problem with a subspace 2 is that it basically took the dev time of a game by itself. Brawl had double the dev time of the average game, and a Smash 6 one would be even more intensive.

But, if the next game was a deluxe port of Ultimate, most of that side of the game is already taken care of. They could actually justify a Subspace 2 (and since most of the enemies and stuff are already there they might as well bring back Smash Run).

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, which Creator has. Being a Pure Magic User with No Sword. is an extremely interesting concept. Alongside its Role in South Asian Gaming and we get a character who has their own Merits. Not to discredit League, I think League would make the most sense personally, I'm just saying that there's more than just the Mainstream when it comes to options.

I mean, okay. That's a way better point in its favor than "Nintendo doesn't want boycotts".

That's pretty much what I was saying.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The big issue with WoL is that it's bloated, just slash like half of the first map and maybe give some more mini worlds as those were the best part and we good

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I do think an ideal story mode can be made from the various bits of the ones we've had.

Get the franchise settings (with select platforming segments) from Adventure Mode, the cutscenes of a Subspace Emissary, the actual legacy enemies from a Smash Run, and the gimmick battle emphasis (but not monopoly) of a World of Light. All those elements in one mode with real scope and I think you'd have something.

A world map (Ultimate), with great cutscenes (Brawl), in a setting from the game series represented (Melee), with a larger focus on exploration and map size rather then a straight forward shot like most of Brawl (3DS), and maybe the occasional Board Game thrown in for variety (Wii U). Yeah, I dig that a lot.

 

[PeridotGX]

in Fire Emblem Awakening, only the most important story elements were given a fully rendered cutscene, the rest were done in-engine.

maybe they could do that with a SSE 2 to cut down on dev costs?

 

[Jocario Zero]

Very unpopular opinion: I dislike melees adventure mode. Tbf i had to replay melee multiple times due to data lose but that doesn't change that this mode gets really old really fast. It's just the same every time and the "adventure"-part of it feels like gets thrown aside at the middle point and just becomes classic mode again (Giga Bowser as a secret boss is cool though).

I've put hunderts of hours into SSE (yes, really) and i play that over melees adventure mode any day (i just wish that SSE had more themed levels
like Mushroom Kingdom and all that stuff and not "desert-stage no. 37". (btw i liked great maze)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Just for fun, what would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where the last fighter of FP2 was Duke Nukem?

 

[Deleted member]

Just for fun, what would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where the last fighter of FP2 was Duke Nukem?

don’t really care, but wouldn’t mind it either

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The potential backlash to him would at least lead to a few memes of:

"I've come here to get hoes mad and chew bubblegum.

And I'm all out of bubblegum."

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Just for fun, what would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where the last fighter of FP2 was Duke Nukem?

I think he'd be a pretty cool fighter. He's got lots of potential for a moveset like the Shrink Ray, Freeze Ray, Pipe bombs, the Ripper, RPG, Devestator, Trip Mines, Duke Clones, Jetpacks, etc. He'd be loads of fun.

 

[kirbsmash]

duke nukem

I think he's cute, so i can deal with him.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Character's repped: May be quoted and upgraded.

Konami: Frogger, Bomberman (Hudson Soft, RIP), Pitfall
Activisition: Crash, Spyro
Square Enix: Lara Croft, Sora
Falcom: Adol
Ubisoft: Rayman, Ezio
Capcom: Leon Kennedy/Jill Valentine, Danta, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu
Bethesda: Doomguy
Blizzard: Tracer, ANYONE Warcraft earned it
Koei-Tecmo: Ryu Hayabusa
Sega: Aiai
Nether Realm: Scorpion, (echo) Sub Zero
Bandai Namco: Agumon, Heihachi, Nightmare
Rockstar: CJ/alts
Sony: Kratos, ...not sure what their next biggest game is
Microsoft: Master Chief


NINTENDO: Balloon Fighter; Ring Fit Adventure, Captain Toad, Excite Bike, Lip
Retro: Dixie Kong
Skip LTD: Chibi Robo
Gamefreak: Eevee, Team Rocket
Monolith: -------------
Camelot: Isaac
Intelligent Systems: Andy, Paper Mario

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Character's repped: May be quoted and upgraded.

Konami: Frogger, Bomberman (Hudson Soft, RIP), Pitfall
Activisition: Crash, Spyro
Square Enix: Lara Croft, Sora
Falcom: Adol
Ubisoft: Rayman, Ezio
Capcom: Leon Kennedy/Jill Valentine, Danta, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu
Bethesda: Doomguy
Blizzard: Tracer, ANYONE Warcraft earned it
Koei-Tecmo: Ryu Hayabusa
Sega: Aiai
Nether Realm: Scorpion, (echo) Sub Zero
Bandai Namco: Agumon, Heihachi, Nightmare
Rockstar: CJ/atls
Sony: Kratos, ...not sure what their next biggest game is
Microsoft: Master Chief



NINTENDO: Balloon Fighter; Ring Fit Adventure, Captain Toad
Retro: Dixie Kong
Skip LTD: Chibi Robo
Gamefreak: Eevee, Team Rocket
Monolith: -------------
Camelot: Isaac
Intelligent Systems: Andy, Paper Mario

...can I have some context for this?

 

[Deleted member]

I've been holding off on talking about this for some reason, but for the most part, a great amount of people see Ninja Gaiden being in Vol 2 for believing the series will be picked based on NES legacy, and whenever people think of other franchises dating back to the NES that could be chosen instead/as well, it's mainly Contra.



How about Double Dragon? It's an iconic series that dates back to the NES days and also represents a genre that's currently unrepresented in Smash VIA playable fighter. It seems really rare to see Billy and Jimmy brought up whenever we discuss NES legacy or an ASW rep, and there's good potential in somethings that they could bring like a Beat Em Up style stage or the possibility of Jimmy being an Echo or even a round of Mii Costumes from classic NES titles.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

IMHO Crash and Sora are good options for a TGA reveal.

Both are perfectly good newcomers in addition to Bomberman, and Steve (Minecraft).

Smash Run is amazing! However, a Smash Bros. Metroidvania would be incredible!

WOAH! I never thought of a Smash Bros. Metroidvania before. Could you please explain what it would be like?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

IMHO Crash and Sora are good options for a TGA reveal.

Any character revealed at the Game Awards is going to make a pretty big splash just for the fact that it’s Smash. So I could see a multitude of characters being announced there. I think we could see any of Hayabusa, Crash, Sora, Waluigi, maybe even Geno.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Double Dragon is a odd franchise in that most fans from the time period clearly remember it fondly, it was on prominent consoles in the 8/16 bit eras, and even got a new game that came out in 2017. But it rarely even gets close to feeling prominent, even as a retro IP.

Streets of Rage had far less games, only appeared on Sega consoles, and was ignored for a much longer time than DD ever was, but its new title was widely hyped and you see a lot of requests for the likes of Axel in Smash. For some reason, certain old school franchises just stick in the memory and enthusiasm better than others.

 

[Dinoman96]

I kinda think it's a bit too soon to reveal another big megaton character like Crash (we just got Steve announced), that feels like that something that would be originally saved for E3 next year (before the pandemic hit, obviously).

I suspect the next character will be revealed in January, and will be relatively more "low key".

 

[3BitSaurus]

I kinda think it's a bit too soon to reveal another big megaton character like Crash (we just got Steve announced), that feels like that something that would be originally saved for E3 next year (before the pandemic hit, obviously).

I suspect the next character will be revealed in January, and will be relatively more "low key".

There's one thing that makes me doubt that: Smash reveals are usually frontloaded, which means that both as the third character in this Pass and next year's first release, it would make more sense to have either a big reveal or a fan-favorite (or a combination of both).

I think the "low key" reveals will probably be CP10 and CP11. Maybe CP9 too.

 

[Lamperouge]

People talk about SSE, World of Light, and Melee Adventure mode, but nobody talks about this 10/10 mode
View attachment 290902

It's absolutely criminal how we never got some form of online play for this.

So much missed potential.

 

[cashregister9]

I might be a bit late but I think World Of Light is pretty fun, but I think the perfect Smash Story mode should be structured like Zelda 2. there's an overworld for you to walk around on, and in that overworld are enemy encounters that chase you and once you are attacked by the enemy you enter a standard smash battle between some enemies like there were in Smash Run. There are also Mazes that you can enter that function similarly to the Subspace Emissary levels.

 

[SKX31]

"What's that? Can't hear you over picking my 3 Level 99 spirits with 3 sub slots and forward smashing to win."

"ONE PUNCH MAC, COMIN' UP!"

"OH ****, FIRE FLOOR. Damn it, now I gotta equip the anti-lava floor support spirit."

There's one thing that makes me doubt that: Smash reveals are usually frontloaded, which means that both as the third character in this Pass and next year's first release, it would make more sense to have either a big reveal or a fan-favorite (or a combination of both).

I think the "low key" reveals will probably be CP10 and CP11. Maybe CP9 too.

I do wonder though if the fact that FP2's spread over two years will affect that. As a hypotheoretical scenario (and purely hypotheoretical) there might be some incentive for Nintendo to try and spread the "big names" (as porous of a definition as that is) a bit in order to keep FP2 going a while. Neither 4's DLC nor FP1 were spread over two years after all.

 

[PeridotGX]

It's absolutely criminal how we never got some form of online play for this.

So much missed potential.

i'd attribute it to the 3ds being the 3ds. It would probably melt if they tried to put it onlie, or added the ability for the players to interact. If it was in Wii U or Ultimate it would probably be able to manage.

 

[Wigglerman]

Just for fun, what would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where the last fighter of FP2 was Duke Nukem?

As an avid Duke fan, I'd be all aboard for his inclusion. But man, oh man would people flip if he made it in but Mai didn't even get a spirit cuz she's 'not a good girl' XD And as much as I love Duke, I'm still in the Doom Guy camp because the meme needs to be official. That tiny pupper needs to be handing her bestest friend a Smash invite.