Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Lamperouge]

Actually I Gotta ask

in your opinion, What do you think would need to be in a Ultimate port (if they decided to do an upgraded Ultimate Port), for people to buy it, knowing it's the same game but it's upgraded and such

Battle Royale!

 

[Deleted member]

Judging from the fact that each character has been 3ish months apart just like last pass was 2ish months apart. That would put CP9 around Jan-Feb, CP10 around Apr-May, and finally CP11 around Jul-Aug

You forgot CP8

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

You forgot CP8

Oh geez, you’re right I was thinking Steve was FP8 for some reason. So yeah I guess FP10 would be the E3 character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Throw goemon on the konami list

CONTRA!!!

 

[PeridotGX]

Actually I Gotta ask

in your opinion, What do you think would need to be in a Ultimate port (if they decided to do an upgraded Ultimate Port), for people to buy it, knowing it's the same game but it's upgraded and such

Here's what I think would make it perfect.

-2-5 new characters, 3-6 new echoes
-15+ new stages (this seems like a lot, but I really dislike the small number of new stages and if they re-use assets from switch games it could probably be done)
-revised hazard toggle, you can choose what hazards stay and go, and lock a stage to a specific mode
-10 new ATs and 5 new Pokeballs (mostly for the unrepresented DLC series and Gen 8(/9)
-Classic-er mode (classic mode, but completely randomly generated like in 3DS and Melee
-Subspace 2 (where most of the dev time goes)
-Smash Run (you have all the Enemy AI done, you might as well)

and the absolutely crazy, pie in the sky idea...

-good online

 

[Perkilator]

Actually I Gotta ask

in your opinion, What do you think would need to be in a Ultimate port (if they decided to do an upgraded Ultimate Port), for people to buy it, knowing it's the same game but it's upgraded and such

More characters are a given, but I’d like to see:

• Grima and Ho-Oh as bosses
• An All-Star mode that’s reworked to go by Smash game for each match
• A new area in WoL dedicated to the DLC characters
• Bosses being fightable with the Spirit Rematch feature (after beating WoL once on any difficulty)
• Very Hard Mode for WoL
• New AT’s for the new series represented in Smash
• Gen 8 Poké Ball Pokémon
• Fighter Spirits get the same abilities as Normal Spirits
• Starting roster of the original 12 and base Ultimate’s newcomers, save and *

*Consisting of:

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh also debug mode/dev mode to make our own screenshots/clips the way Sakurai does it for POTD and some trailers

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Tbh, December 2021 souds like a pretty reasonable deadline. Roughly one character every 3 and a half months - not that different from what we had in Pass 1 and would fit reasonably well with the wait between Min Min and Steve.

Plus, I'd rather expect that and be pleasantly surprised if we get the final 4 sooner rather than expect it to end sooner and be disappointed if it doesn't.

That’s fair, but there are still people who outright believe that it IS the deadline and that COVID delays it to 2022, which isn’t true at all because they would’ve adressed it by now if it was the case.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Actually I Gotta ask

in your opinion, What do you think would need to be in a Ultimate port (if they decided to do an upgraded Ultimate Port), for people to buy it, knowing it's the same game but it's upgraded and such

(Rubs hands together)

• New adventure mode that takes the Subspace Emissary gameplay, expands on it by using worlds like Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Metroid, etc. instead of generic ones from Subspace Emissary. It don't need to be long, just interesting.
• More stage builder content along with the ability to create your own Break the Targets stage. Maybe also a Adventure mode stage builder option.
• Create your own custom event matches.
• More Mii fighter types like Mii Mage, Mii Axefighter, Mii Bomber, mii whatever. Spice it up like it's Final Fantasy 3 & 5.
• Return of the 15 missing stages from past Smash titles. Everyone is here but we almost had everywhere is here.
• Ocarina of Time Adult Link should return.
• And of course, more third party characters.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Any character revealed at the Game Awards is going to make a pretty big splash just for the fact that it’s Smash. So I could see a multitude of characters being announced there. I think we could see any of Hayabusa, Crash, Sora, Waluigi, maybe even Geno.

ppersonaly I can see Ryu, Sora and Crash being at VGA but not Waluigi or Geno

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Tbh, December 2021 souds like a pretty reasonable deadline. Roughly one character every 3 and a half months - not that different from what we had in Pass 1 and would fit reasonably well with the wait between Min Min and Steve.

Plus, I'd rather expect that and be pleasantly surprised if we get the final 4 sooner rather than expect it to end sooner and be disappointed if it doesn't.



As far as singular games, we can't. For series, there's about two or three, but I'm not sure Nintendo would go for those.

Agreed. The way I see it going.

FP8: January
FP9: May
FP10: August-September
FP11: December

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah I kinda messed up with thinking Steve was CP8 for some reason so Jan-Feb for CP8, April-May for CP9, Jul-Aug for CP10, Nov-Dec for CP11 seems about spot on. Meaning CP10 is the character to look out for. If they are really planned for E3.

 

[SNEKeater]

Biggest gripe about miis is that for some godforsaken reason we keep getting costumes for them and not the vast majority of the cast who would really really appreciate some alternate looks. Like come on, who wants to wear a 3rd Mii Swordfighter costume from Link's wardrobe when we could get something like, I dunno, a set Link actually wears... on Link?
View attachment 290865

Yeah
I'd gladly pay 3 or 4 bucks for Garou Terry lol
I still suffer because of Terry not having this alt

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I saw an Alucard Smash moveset on youtube and I have concluded Smashtubers need to be purged. I'm ok with spending 40 minutes whining constantly despite claiming you're not mad and saying Geno's an important figure to gaming industry while Doom Slayer and Dante are only have a vocal minority in terms of merits but I draw the ****ing line at saying Alucard should use Belmont's subweapons

 

[Oracle Link]

Here's what I think would make it perfect.

-2-5 new characters, 3-6 new echoes
-15+ new stages (this seems like a lot, but I really dislike the small number of new stages and if they re-use assets from switch games it could probably be done)
-revised hazard toggle, you can choose what hazards stay and go, and lock a stage to a specific mode
-10 new ATs and 5 new Pokeballs (mostly for the unrepresented DLC series and Gen 8(/9)
-Classic-er mode (classic mode, but completely randomly generated like in 3DS and Melee
-Subspace 2 (where most of the dev time goes)
-Smash Run (you have all the Enemy AI done, you might as well)

and the absolutely crazy, pie in the sky idea...

-good online

Lets see which Stuff i would choose not more than idea!

Characters:
Bandana Waddle Dee
Skull Kid
Jibannyan
Human(Undertale)
Metroid

Echoes:
Impa
Galacta Knight
Black Shadow
Shadow
Waluigi

Stages:
Bowsers Castle
Ganons Tower
All other Smash Stages yeah even the "Bad" ones
Yokai Watch stage
Snowdin(Undertale)
Mt.Dedede
HALCANDRA

Assits:
All old ones
Dark Matter
Magolor
Adeline
Eggman
Sans
Someone from Yokai Watch

Pokeball:
Cyndquill
Totodile
new Gen
new Gen
Dialga

Bosses: for Subspace 2
Giovanni
Kamek
Eggman
Gohma
Kracko

Smash run maybe with stage Editor (and less Kid Icarus Enemies i mean it shouldnt have more than Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon)

And good online i think your asking too much i mean Online on Switch is Free wait.......... Oh! $%&*!!!!!
If you have Questions or suggestions ask!

 

[cashregister9]

i mean it shouldnt have more than Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon

I really don't understand this. You wanted less representation in smash run? why? I am genuinely confused here. I guess just to streamline the balancing? but that wasn't really an issue.

 

[Ivander]

Smash run maybe with stage Editor (and less Kid Icarus Enemies i mean it shouldnt have more than Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon)

The reason Kid Icarus had so many enemies was because of how easy it was to port the models to Smash 3DS. If Smash Run comes back, most likely most of the enemies will be new models and some enemies may not return.

 

[Deleted member]

If Ultimate does get a port I’d like every past stage to return, better online, Smash Run, a Boss Rush mode, and like 5 new characters + a few echoes. That’s what I’d consider the bare minimum at least. Anything else would be icing on the cake imo. I guess some more basic platform layout variations of FD and Battlefield in the vein of Small Battlefield and the Galeem/Dharkon fights would be nice additions as well.

 

[PeridotGX]

The reason Kid Icarus had so many enemies was because of how easy it was to port the models to Smash 3DS. If Smash Run comes back, most likely most of the enemies will be new models and some enemies may not return.

I could see a lot of enemies from Kirby (Star Allies) and Mario (Oddessy) making an appearance. Those models are good, aren't too different from the Smash artstyle, and wouldn't be a difficult translation.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

My idea for Ultimate DX.

-12 additional fighters rounding to 100 (102). All previous DLC becomes unlockables in base game.
-6 new stages rounding to 120.
-New modes like Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, Boss Rush and All-Star Mode.
-Additional content to World of Light notably more story and cut scenes shown and making it more like the SubSpace Emissary.

 

[Oracle Link]

The reason Kid Icarus had so many enemies was because of how easy it was to port the models to Smash 3DS. If Smash Run comes back, most likely most of the enemies will be new models and some enemies may not return.

I mean yeah but there where also Zelda and Mario Games on the 3ds

I could suggest new enemys (only Franchises i Know in and Out)
Mario:
Goomba
Koopa
Bullet Bill
Hammer Bros
Boo
MagiKoopa
Dry Bones
Thwomp
and variants
Madlad Boom Boom(MidBoss)

Zelda:
Oktorock (Links Awekening)
Bokoblin(Botw)
Dark Nut(TP)
Moblin(WW)
Remort(OOt)
ChuChu(WW)
Lynel(Midboss Botw)

Kirby:
Waddle Dee (Variant Parsol)
Waddle Doo
Gordow
Bronto Bird
Burnin Leo
Bonkers (Midboss)

Pokemon:
Skelabra
Ghastly
Team Rockt Grunt
Mimikyu
Kobalium (Midboss)

Undertale:
Froggit

 

[Oracle Link]

My idea for a Ultimate port.

-12 additional fighters rounding to 100 (102). All previous DLC becomes unlockables in base game.

Also Maybe make the Brawl +Mellee Roster the Start Roster 8 just makes a bad first impression

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I guess also include Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong in the base of Ult Deluxe cause I have a big feeling they’re NOT gonna be dlc. They feel like base or bust to me

also some very minor Spirit related things:

• Min Min’s Spirit will still appear on the Spirit Board; however her spot in WoL will be replaced by her Awakening battle where you free her from Galeem. Same goes for anyone promoted to fighter in vanilla Ultimate’s DLC who has a Spirit in the WoL map (I.e. Octoling Girl & Octoling Boy would become an awakening battle where you free them from Dharkon’s control, if they happen this pass)
• If Sylux and Adeleine aren’t playable make them spirits ffs
• Still don’t want Tsubasa to be the lone TMS Spirit if we don’t get an Encore event. I will not stop harping on this sorry not sorry
• Minor detail that sets off my OCD: the Off the Hook spirit is found in the Dark Realm (Mysterious Dimension) I always felt that to complement that, instead of being a fusion, the Squid Sisters Spirit could be in the Light Realm, in the power plant where Pichu is freed

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Also Maybe make the Brawl +Mellee Roster the Start Roster 8 just makes a bad first impression

I myself is fine with the original 8 being the starters and saw why Sakurai made that decision. It's a throwback and reference to the first game with starting with those eight and besides the characters are easy to unlock and the more unlockables the more fun.

 

[Oracle Link]

I myself is fine with the original 8 being the starters and saw why Sakurai made that decision. It's a throwback and reference to the first game with starting with those eight and besides the characters are easy to unlock and the unlockables the more fun.

I mean luckily teyre easy too unlock but there are lot of first time Smash Players who didnt saw the Trailers so yeah!

 

[PeridotGX]

i hope they at least give the option to unlock everything at once. It helps both poeple who don't want to waste time re-unlocking characters they had in Switch Ultimate, and would help tourney setup.

 

[Megadoomer]

I saw an Alucard Smash moveset on youtube and I have concluded Smashtubers need to be purged. I'm ok with spending 40 minutes whining constantly despite claiming you're not mad and saying Geno's an important figure to gaming industry while Doom Slayer and Dante are only have a vocal minority in terms of merits but I draw the ****ing line at saying Alucard should use Belmont's subweapons

If you're referring to this one:

The use of Holy Water as a down special seemed kind of lazy, but the Belmont subweapons weren't used anywhere else. (unless there's another moveset where Alucard uses the Belmont subweapons, which is pretty weird)

 

[chocolatejr9]

If you're referring to this one:

The use of Holy Water as a down special seemed kind of lazy, but the Belmont subweapons weren't used anywhere else. (unless there's another moveset where Alucard uses the Belmont subweapons, which is pretty weird)

Does Alucard ever use Holy Water in any of his appearances? It could be a reference, or it could just be a case where nothing else fit.

 

[Ivander]

Does Alucard ever use Holy Water in any of his appearances? It could be a reference, or it could just be a case where nothing else fit.

In Symphony of the Night, he does have Sub-weapons, including Holy water.

 

[Oracle Link]

You know that Brawlfan1s Movest idea serious is just dumb speculation i mean he features Spongebob,Kid Goku, Mettaton and other not Realistic picks!

 

[Megadoomer]

Does Alucard ever use Holy Water in any of his appearances? It could be a reference, or it could just be a case where nothing else fit.

He does (the video shows a clip of him using it in Symphony of the Night), but there are a lot of options to choose from for Symphony of the Night, so copying an attack from the Belmonts but making it green doesn't seem like the most creative thing to do. (the Shield Rod alone would give a lot to work with, and that's just one item)

 

[SKX31]

SSE was obviously great but you gotta realize that it was also a massive development sink. Practically a whole movie's worth of cutscenes, unique locations and enemies, etc. If not for that Brawl wouldn't have been delayed and/or we would have gotten at least Mewtwo and Roy back, maybe even Dixie, Toon Zelda, and whoever pra_mai is. It becomes a question of if the tradeoff was really worth more than "was SSE good?"

Obviously it's Mai in Pragmatic clothes:

Spoiler: Big image

As for the hypotheoretical Ultimate DX port (a couple new characters are given):

* Not just vastly improved Online (which is mostly a structural aspect), but also integrating new modes into the online system. The demand for say an online Smash Run is there, and for a lot of people it would be more interesting if side-modes were readily available.

(Pie in the sky: Please add "Enforce Rules" option - and have that require that both should agree to that or a very similar ruleset. it would adress the problems "Preferred Rules" have.)

* I know GSP's not going away, but please could we have the option to "lock in" a Quickplay lobby and change characters? I'm saying this as someone who's had the occasional fun 5-9 matches with the same person.

* Only a small number of changes to Battle Arenas, and the primary one would be the option to have multiple Rings so the Queue isn't potentially humongous. Battle Arenas are otherwise pretty good.

* Related to the above, the ability to download Spirit Battle setups. A lot of the wackier potential Spirits have in casual FFAs are wasted because they take a lot of time to set up, and the ability to even have Spirit Battles was forgotten from Day 1. If Spirit setups are downloadable it would be much easier to just select them.

* Embrace customizability further. One problem I have with City Trial / Smash Run is that the final challenge is completely random with no option to customize that. Adressing that if Smash Run returns would be great. If Smash Tour returns, repurpose the final challenges as minigames a la Mario Party that one can enable.

He does (the video shows a clip of him using it in Symphony of the Night), but there are a lot of options to choose from for Symphony of the Night, so copying an attack from the Belmonts but making it green doesn't seem like the most creative thing to do. (the Shield Rod alone would give a lot to work with)

Shudders at the potential edgeguarding / ledgetrapping Alucard would have with Holy Water + Crissaegrim + Bat Transformation + Divekick.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you're referring to this one:

The use of Holy Water as a down special seemed kind of lazy, but the Belmont subweapons weren't used anywhere else. (unless there's another moveset where Alucard uses the Belmont subweapons, which is pretty weird)

Yeah that's the *****. It's just the sheer audacity at blanking on what to give as a down special to a character with a ****ton of techniques that ultimately doesn't even get seen in the video and how if you MUST resort to something the character doesn't typically do, to resort to something so dull and not something Dracula or Soma can do

 

[chocolatejr9]

You know that Brawlfan1s Movest idea serious is just dumb speculation i mean he features Spongebob,Kid Goku, Mettaton and other not Realistic picks!

I mean, that's kinda the point. He does these videos because, more likely than not, these characters aren't happening. It's just him speculating what they would be like if they were ever included.

 

[Oracle Link]

I mean, that's kinda the point. He does these videos because, more likely than not, these characters aren't happening. It's just him speculating what they would be like if they were ever included.

Its just that some people im talkin about Cutie Gwen take it too seriously!

 

[Schnee117]

You know that Brawlfan1s Movest idea serious is just dumb speculation i mean he features Spongebob,Kid Goku, Mettaton and other not Realistic picks!

It doesn't mean people can't criticise some of the moveset choices made.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Its just that some people im talkin about Cutie Gwen take it too seriously!

How can you see me say the Community meme and claim the core criticism of being incredibly uncreative when the guy's literally given a slice of bread a moveset is taking it too seriously

 

[ahemtoday]

If we got some kind of Ultimate Deluxe... Hm. Let me see, I think mostly I would want something you couldn't really do just with DLC to Ultimate. Or, well, you probably theoretically could do the things I'm about to say with DLC and/or patches but it wouldn't really fit with the way they've been doing things. Heck, I'll even give specific examples. Rate My Ult Deluxe. That's what we're doing now, I guess.

• Obviously, all previous DLC comes in the base-game now.
• Equally obviously, overhauled online.
• I think an Ultimate Deluxe would be a good chance to include characters who feel a little more like base roster material than DLC. Not that that's a criterion that's in anyway objective - I definitely would've put down Byleth as one of 'em. Three characters come to mind for me on this one.
  • Bandana Waddle Dee is probably the best example of a "deluxe-y" character.
  • Dixie Kong is also a great example. I see her as sort of the Isabelle of the new inclusions, even if she wouldn't be nearly as much of a clone as Isabelle would be.
  • Rex & Pyra are characters I actually could see being DLC, but I'm not sure if the timing would really work out. This feels like a good spot for them.
• It'd also be a good opportunity to promote some Assist Trophies into full characters. You could probably do a full Fighter's Pass out of these, to be honest, but I wanted to limit myself, so I had leave some characters alone that I really didn't want to.
  • Isaac is also one of the characters that's at the forefront of my mind as someone you include in a deluxe port.
  • Bomberman being one of the ones to get promoted just makes sense to me, as well. Out of all the assist trophies from third-party series, he seems like he could be one of the bigger gets.
  • Shovel Knight is in a similar position to Bomberman. In general, when I was making the Assist Trophy picks, I wanted to prioritize new series to contrast the other new characters, who all struck me as picks that were good for a Deluxe specifically because they were from old series.
• Since they're not doing new Echo Fighters as DLC, I think this would also be a good time to introduce some. Preferably more Ken-like than the ones we got in Ultimate.
  • Shadow as fighter #38ε. Stick some glowy effects on his normal attacks, make him more about single hits than multi-hits, and give him a teleporting up-B. Honestly, even as a huge Shadow fan, I'd be fine with that moveset even if there's more you could theoretically do with him.
  • Alph as fighter #40ε, upgraded from an alternate costume. Instead of purples and whites, he plucks Rock Pikmin and Winged Pikmin. Instead of his up-B being more effective with less Pikmin, it's more the effective the more Winged Pikmin he has.
  • Octoling as fighter #64ε. Sort of a reverse-Wolf situations, where their normals are mostly the same but with different weapons and their specials are different, involving the Dualies, Splatling, Charger, and Brella.
  • Spring Man as fighter #76ε. He has different ARMS from Min Min, and instead of kicking, he has more attacks with his ARMS. Kind of a Chrom situation, in that while I feel we did end up getting somewhat more interesting picks... he was still a little bit robbed.
• Oh, I could also see some adjustments being made to existing fighters a little bit. Not, like, a complete overhaul, but maybe like a new special or Final Smash. Or a couple new normals. A little less than we normally get between games.
• Having every stage back would be cool, but I don't know how realistic that is. I think I may have already put a little too much on here.

Well, that's everything. Honestly, halfway through I realized this was a little too much effort for something neither y'all nor I would care about that much, but I was too far in to back out.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Reminder that a potential VGA reveal doesn't necessarily have to be a big one.

Nintendo straight up gave us no game at all despite the Switch having "lots of games" at last year's VGAs, so we could have anything, even nothing at all.

 

[Lamperouge]

You know that Brawlfan1s Movest idea serious is just dumb speculation i mean he features Spongebob,Kid Goku, Mettaton and other not Realistic picks!

Does that mean we also shouldn't be wasting our time here since we all partake in dumb speculation that, at the end of the day, shouldn't even be taken remotely seriously?

You can't just present an idea and not expect some form of criticism towards it, especially when the character involved is so beloved and capable of much more.